Topics

Dessalator cuts out when flushing

Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown
 

Hi all,

 

I was flushing steriliser through my Dessalator, both hoses in a bucket of solution, no pressure, and it kept on cutting out after one minute with the red error light flashing. I just re-started it each time without any other problem, but it still cut out after every minute of operation. It never did that before. I’m curious – any ideas?

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

 


--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

 

Paul,

I would say that if the TDS (Total Dissolved Sensor) is working you should get a RED light and shutdown because you certainly have a high TDS with the sterilizing solution in a bucket of water.

Best,

Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St.
Galveston, Texas 77550
832-380-4970



On Sun, May 5, 2019 at 2:18 PM Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...> wrote:

Hi all,

 

I was flushing steriliser through my Dessalator, both hoses in a bucket of solution, no pressure, and it kept on cutting out after one minute with the red error light flashing. I just re-started it each time without any other problem, but it still cut out after every minute of operation. It never did that before. I’m curious – any ideas?

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

 


--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

Mark & Debbie Mueller
 
Edited

According to the Dessalator manual the system should shut down after one minute in this mode of operation.  See the excerpt from the manual below.

Fresh water should be always used with no pressure when going through the system (pressure dial turned all the way anti clockwise) and the system should always run with no pressure after a fresh water flush to dump all the fresh water that are in it, before making freshwater from sea water (also with the pressure dial all the way anti clockwise). When running the water maker with the dial all the way anti clockwise, it will shut itself down automatically after 1 minute. Only then, the water maker is ready for use.

When introducing the sterilizer you are operating in this condition.  I believe your system is operating correctly.  You will then go through the flush cycle when you put the system back into service.

Water will go through the membranes with the regulator turned all the way open "anti clockwise".  This position being the normal start position for the Dessalator which allows the high pressure pump to start with little to no head pressure.
--
Mark Mueller
Brass Ring  A54

Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown
 

Bill,

 

The pressure was off – all the way anticlockwise -  so there should have been no water going through the membranes and therefore none getting to the TDS sensor.

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
Sent: 05 May 2019 19:31
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Dessalator cuts out when flushing

 

Paul,

 

I would say that if the TDS (Total Dissolved Sensor) is working you should get a RED light and shutdown because you certainly have a high TDS with the sterilizing solution in a bucket of water.

 

Best,

 

Bill Rouse

720 Winnie St.

Galveston, Texas 77550

832-380-4970

 

 

On Sun, May 5, 2019 at 2:18 PM Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...> wrote:

Hi all,

 

I was flushing steriliser through my Dessalator, both hoses in a bucket of solution, no pressure, and it kept on cutting out after one minute with the red error light flashing. I just re-started it each time without any other problem, but it still cut out after every minute of operation. It never did that before. I’m curious – any ideas?

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

 


--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98


--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

 

Correct, sorry about that. 

Who knows? Possibly there is a soft switch and timer that activates the alarm when there is zero output flow. I would email Nicholas at contact"at"dessalator.com

You want to know, I need to know, and we likely have an audience that wants to also know. If you like, I'll email him. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970


On Sun, May 5, 2019, 9:03 PM Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...> wrote:

Bill,

 

The pressure was off – all the way anticlockwise -  so there should have been no water going through the membranes and therefore none getting to the TDS sensor.

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
Sent: 05 May 2019 19:31
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Dessalator cuts out when flushing

 

Paul,

 

I would say that if the TDS (Total Dissolved Sensor) is working you should get a RED light and shutdown because you certainly have a high TDS with the sterilizing solution in a bucket of water.

 

Best,

 

Bill Rouse

720 Winnie St.

Galveston, Texas 77550

832-380-4970

 

 

On Sun, May 5, 2019 at 2:18 PM Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...> wrote:

Hi all,

 

I was flushing steriliser through my Dessalator, both hoses in a bucket of solution, no pressure, and it kept on cutting out after one minute with the red error light flashing. I just re-started it each time without any other problem, but it still cut out after every minute of operation. It never did that before. I’m curious – any ideas?

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

 


--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98


--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

 

Thanks Mark. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Mon, May 6, 2019, 2:38 AM Mark & Debbie Mueller <brass.ring@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

According to the Dessalator manual the system should shut down after one minute in this mode of operation.  See the excerpt from the manual below.

Fresh water should be always used with no pressure when going through the system (pressure dial turned all the way anti clockwise) and the system should always run with no pressure after a fresh water flush to dump all the fresh water that are in it, before making freshwater from sea water (also with the pressure dial all the way anti clockwise). When running the water maker with the dial all the way anti clockwise, it will shut itself down automatically after 1 minute. Only then, the water maker is ready for use.

When introducing the sterilizer you are operating in this condition.  I believe your system is operating correctly.  You will then go through the flush cycle when you put the system back into service.

Water will go through the membranes with the regulator turned all the way open "anti clockwise".  This position being the normal start position for the Dessalator which allows the high pressure pump to start with little to no head pressure.
--
Mark Mueller
Brass Ring  A54

Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown
 

Thanks Bill and Mark.

 

If the manual says it cuts out after 1 minute then I guess its working properly. However, in the past, whenever I have returned to the boat and recommissioned the watermaker, I have run it on no pressure for half as hour, on advice, to flush all the sterilant through before turning up the pressure, and have never experienced this shutdown after 1 minute. I will contact Dessalator as Bill has suggested and get back to you with their answer.

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
Sent: 06 May 2019 09:49
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Dessalator cuts out when flushing

 

Thanks Mark. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

 

On Mon, May 6, 2019, 2:38 AM Mark & Debbie Mueller <brass.ring@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

According to the Dessalator manual the system should shut down after one minute in this mode of operation.  See the excerpt from the manual below.

Fresh water should be always used with no pressure when going through the system (pressure dial turned all the way anti clockwise) and the system should always run with no pressure after a fresh water flush to dump all the fresh water that are in it, before making freshwater from sea water (also with the pressure dial all the way anti clockwise). When running the water maker with the dial all the way anti clockwise, it will shut itself down automatically after 1 minute. Only then, the water maker is ready for use.

When introducing the sterilizer you are operating in this condition.  I believe your system is operating correctly.  You will then go through the flush cycle when you put the system back into service.

Water will go through the membranes with the regulator turned all the way open "anti clockwise".  This position being the normal start position for the Dessalator which allows the high pressure pump to start with little to no head pressure.
--
Mark Mueller
Brass Ring  A54


--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown
 

Bill,

 

This is the reply from Dessalator (and quite quick there were too!):

 

Dear Paul,

 

Thank you for your inquiry.

 

If you run the unit without increasing the pressure, it is normal that it shuts after one minute.

 

The good procedure to flush the water maker when you return on your boat is to turn the rinsing valve located on the low pressure pump, but WITHOUT running the water maker.

 

You will find the procedure enclosed.

 

If you have any doubt, you can call for free our engineer, M. Martin de Jong, on Whatsapp. Please find enclosed his contact info.

 

With our best regards,

 

Nicolas Bouffartigue

Secretary Dessalator

 

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
Sent: 06 May 2019 09:49
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Dessalator cuts out when flushing

 

Thanks Mark. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

 

On Mon, May 6, 2019, 2:38 AM Mark & Debbie Mueller <brass.ring@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

According to the Dessalator manual the system should shut down after one minute in this mode of operation.  See the excerpt from the manual below.

Fresh water should be always used with no pressure when going through the system (pressure dial turned all the way anti clockwise) and the system should always run with no pressure after a fresh water flush to dump all the fresh water that are in it, before making freshwater from sea water (also with the pressure dial all the way anti clockwise). When running the water maker with the dial all the way anti clockwise, it will shut itself down automatically after 1 minute. Only then, the water maker is ready for use.

When introducing the sterilizer you are operating in this condition.  I believe your system is operating correctly.  You will then go through the flush cycle when you put the system back into service.

Water will go through the membranes with the regulator turned all the way open "anti clockwise".  This position being the normal start position for the Dessalator which allows the high pressure pump to start with little to no head pressure.
--
Mark Mueller
Brass Ring  A54


--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

Gary Silver
 
Edited

Hi Bill and All:  

Perhaps I can add something about the behavior or the TDS (electrical conductivity = EC really) of the product water upon startup. 
Background:  My system is the original Amel system for a vintage 2001 (hull #335 SM).  It had (and still have) the sham TDS circuit board installation from Dessalator.  I have however re-fitted my system with an external continuous monitoring EC sensor on the product water line along with manual bypass valve switch and LED indicator light as well as a 110 decibel sonalert to alarm if the TDS (EC) rises above the level I select on the TDS sensor.   I have also installed a 7 day timer that flushes my system with product water from the tanks for 5 minutes every other day (uses about 4 liters of water per flush cycle) while I am not on the boat.  Haven't used sterilizing solution in more than 10 years now and have avoided all the corrosion problems associated therewith.  Additionally I am on only my 3rd set of membranes in 18 years. Those boats refitted with the Dessalator automatic flushing board and 54s etc I presume have a TDS sensor that actually works.

On my boat the Startup TDS readings:   Remember this is with the system completely filled with fresh water and the pressure knob turned anti-clockwise:   Upon initial startup the TDS is low (somewhere in the vicinity of where it was when the system was shut down, and in my case electrical conductivity (EC) of approx. 450 micro-siemens/cm, where 1 micro-ciemen/cm for sea water is about 0.68 TDS).  After a few seconds of raising the pressure to the operational range by turning the knob on the control panel to restrict flow and thereby increase the membrane side pressure, the EC (TDS) rises almost immediately to max out my salinity sensor over 2,000 micro-siemens.  About 20 seconds later, the conductivity/salinity begins to fall back to the acceptable range.  When it falls to this level I manually throw the switch to activate the diverter valve (valve is normally closed / in diversion) and simultaneously arm the sonalert alarm system.  The EC spike that occurs upon start-up has always baffled me as it occurs no matter how many months the system has been flushed with fresh water.  I can only assume it is due to some residual salts in the nooks and crannies of the membranes that is briefly excreted with the first product water.  These findings are consistent and is perhaps the basis of the 1 minute bypass timer in the  automatic system that Dessalator engineered.  I really like my manual system and I love that the system continuously monitors and instantaneously alarms if there is high TDS (EC). 

Just some food for thought on my experience with independent monitoring of the EC (TDS) of the Dessalator water maker.

Sincerely, 

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona
Amel SM 2000 #335
Puerto Del Rey Marina - Puerto Rico

Sincerely, 

 I have th

James Cromie
 

Thanks for your information Gary. I am interested in knowing g more about the electrical conductivity sensor you are using.  I would like to install something similar.  
By the way, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought 1 microseimen/cm = 0.641 ppm. That certainly seems more in line with my TDS readings.  I've never seen a TDS as low as a single digits number on my system. 

Best,
James
Soteria SM 347


On May 7, 2019 14:19, "Gary Silver via Groups.Io" <garysilver@...> wrote:
Hi Bill and All:  

Perhaps I can add something about the behavior or the TDS (electrical conductivity = EC really) of the product water upon startup. 
Background:  My system is the original Amel system for a vintage 2001 (hull #335 SM).  It had (and still have) the sham TDS circuit board installation from Dessalator.  I have however re-fitted my system with an external continuous monitoring EC sensor on the product water line along with manual bypass valve switch and LED indicator light as well as a 110 decibel sonalert to alarm if the TDS (EC) rises above the level I select on the TDS sensor.   I have also installed a 7 day timer that flushes my system with product water from the tanks for 5 minutes every other day (uses about 4 liters of water per flush cycle) while I am not on the boat.  Haven't used sterilizing solution in more than 10 years now and have avoided all the corrosion problems associated therewith.  Additionally I am on only my 3rd set of membranes in 18 years. Those boats refitted with the Dessalator automatic flushing board and 54s etc I presume have a TDS sensor that actually works.

On my boat the Startup TDS readings:   Remember this is with the system completely filled with fresh water and the pressure knob turned anti-clockwise:   Upon initial startup the TDS is low (somewhere in the vicinity of where it was when the system was shut down, and in my case electrical conductivity (EC) of approx. 450 micro-siemens, 1 micro-siemen = .0055 PPM TDS, so this is about TDS of 2.48 ).  After a few seconds of raising the pressure to the operational range by turning the knob on the control panel to restrict flow and thereby increase the membrane side pressure, the EC (TDS) rises almost immediately to max out my salinity sensor over 5,000 micro-siemens.  About 20 seconds later, the conductivity/salinity begins to fall back to the acceptable range.  When it falls to this level I manually throw the switch to activate the diverter valve (valve is normally closed / in diversion) and simultaneously arm the sonalert alarm system.  The EC spike that occurs upon start-up has always baffled me as it occurs no matter how many months the system has been flushed with fresh water.  I can only assume it is due to some residual salts in the nooks and crannies of the membranes that is briefly excreted with the first product water.  These findings are consistent and is perhaps the basis of the 1 minute bypass timer in the  automatic system that Dessalator engineered.  I really like my manual system and I love that the system continuously monitors and instantaneously alarms if there is high TDS (EC). 

Just some food for thought on my experience with independent monitoring of the EC (TDS) of the Dessalator water maker.

Sincerely, 

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona
Amel SM 2000 #335
Puerto Del Rey Marina - Puerto Rico

Sincerely, 

 I have th

karkauai
 

Hi Gary,
I also have the bogus TDS monitor on my D60.

I’m also interested in your TDS monitor and automatic flushing system.  Can you post pics and/or specifics of what parts you used, and tell us about any snags you encountered?

Thanks!
Kent

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy SM243
USA cell: 828-234-6819

On May 7, 2019, at 2:32 PM, James Cromie via Groups.Io <jamescromie@...> wrote:

Thanks for your information Gary. I am interested in knowing g more about the electrical conductivity sensor you are using.  I would like to install something similar.  
By the way, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought 1 microseimen/cm = 0.641 ppm. That certainly seems more in line with my TDS readings.  I've never seen a TDS as low as a single digits number on my system. 

Best,
James
Soteria SM 347


On May 7, 2019 14:19, "Gary Silver via Groups.Io" <garysilver@...> wrote:
Hi Bill and All:  

Perhaps I can add something about the behavior or the TDS (electrical conductivity = EC really) of the product water upon startup. 
Background:  My system is the original Amel system for a vintage 2001 (hull #335 SM).  It had (and still have) the sham TDS circuit board installation from Dessalator.  I have however re-fitted my system with an external continuous monitoring EC sensor on the product water line along with manual bypass valve switch and LED indicator light as well as a 110 decibel sonalert to alarm if the TDS (EC) rises above the level I select on the TDS sensor.   I have also installed a 7 day timer that flushes my system with product water from the tanks for 5 minutes every other day (uses about 4 liters of water per flush cycle) while I am not on the boat.  Haven't used sterilizing solution in more than 10 years now and have avoided all the corrosion problems associated therewith.  Additionally I am on only my 3rd set of membranes in 18 years. Those boats refitted with the Dessalator automatic flushing board and 54s etc I presume have a TDS sensor that actually works.

On my boat the Startup TDS readings:   Remember this is with the system completely filled with fresh water and the pressure knob turned anti-clockwise:   Upon initial startup the TDS is low (somewhere in the vicinity of where it was when the system was shut down, and in my case electrical conductivity (EC) of approx. 450 micro-siemens, 1 micro-siemen = .0055 PPM TDS, so this is about TDS of 2.48 ).  After a few seconds of raising the pressure to the operational range by turning the knob on the control panel to restrict flow and thereby increase the membrane side pressure, the EC (TDS) rises almost immediately to max out my salinity sensor over 5,000 micro-siemens.  About 20 seconds later, the conductivity/salinity begins to fall back to the acceptable range.  When it falls to this level I manually throw the switch to activate the diverter valve (valve is normally closed / in diversion) and simultaneously arm the sonalert alarm system.  The EC spike that occurs upon start-up has always baffled me as it occurs no matter how many months the system has been flushed with fresh water.  I can only assume it is due to some residual salts in the nooks and crannies of the membranes that is briefly excreted with the first product water.  These findings are consistent and is perhaps the basis of the 1 minute bypass timer in the  automatic system that Dessalator engineered.  I really like my manual system and I love that the system continuously monitors and instantaneously alarms if there is high TDS (EC). 

Just some food for thought on my experience with independent monitoring of the EC (TDS) of the Dessalator water maker.

Sincerely, 

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona
Amel SM 2000 #335
Puerto Del Rey Marina - Puerto Rico

Sincerely, 

 I have th

Gary Silver
 

Hi James, You are correct, depending on the source you look at 1 micro-siemen/cm = to about 0.65 TDS for seawater.  I have corrected my original message. 

This is the EC meter I bought ( example   https://www.ebay.com/itm/OMEGA-ENGINEERING-CDCN-201-CDCN201-RQANS2-/232703669959 )  it is powered by 230 VAC, has adjustable alarm limits (I verified the calibration on mine using some standardized calibrated water), and it has relay output for the alarm and/or bypass valve.  I included some LEDs to show power, and alarm condition but that was just fluff.  I powered it from the Dessalinator CB  so that any time that CB is on the salinity sensor is on.  The relay output switches 24 VDC to the sonalert that has an inline switch that I label "arm / mute" so I can mute the sonalert while the startup cycle does it's thing (i.e. high EC). The bypass switch is labeled "save / discard".  I will draw up a schematic of the system and post it in the files section under Amel SM - Dessalator.  The sensor is plumbed into the product water line as it exits the membranes (next to the original sham sensor).  I think I already posted a picture of that.  My timer for the auto flush circuit is a 24 volt fish feeder 7 day programable timer hooked to a relay.  The wire from the 24 VDC panel for the pressurized water pump passes thru this relay on the Normally Open contacts.  When the timer is in the "ON" mode the relay closes and supplies 24 VDC to the fresh water pump.  When I leave the boat I place the flush valve in the the "flush" position and set the Timer to "Auto" mode so that when the timer commands, the relay closes, energizing the fresh water pump for the period programmed into the timer.  Once the flush is complete the power to the fresh water pump is interrupted by the relay contacts opening.  So the pressurized water system is not always pressurized lest a leak flood the boat.  It is only pressurized during relay closure.

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona
Amel SM 2000 #335 

James Cromie
 

Thanks for the information Gary! 
Fair Winds,
James

On May 7, 2019, at 10:16 PM, Gary Silver via Groups.Io <garysilver@...> wrote:

Hi James, You are correct, depending on the source you look at 1 micro-siemen/cm = to about 0.65 TDS for seawater.  I have corrected my original message. 

This is the EC meter I bought ( example   https://www.ebay.com/itm/OMEGA-ENGINEERING-CDCN-201-CDCN201-RQANS2-/232703669959 )  it is powered by 230 VAC, has adjustable alarm limits (I verified the calibration on mine using some standardized calibrated water), and it has relay output for the alarm and/or bypass valve.  I included some LEDs to show power, and alarm condition but that was just fluff.  I powered it from the Dessalinator CB  so that any time that CB is on the salinity sensor is on.  The relay output switches 24 VDC to the sonalert that has an inline switch that I label "arm / mute" so I can mute the sonalert while the startup cycle does it's thing (i.e. high EC). The bypass switch is labeled "save / discard".  I will draw up a schematic of the system and post it in the files section under Amel SM - Dessalator.  The sensor is plumbed into the product water line as it exits the membranes (next to the original sham sensor).  I think I already posted a picture of that.  My timer for the auto flush circuit is a 24 volt fish feeder 7 day programable timer hooked to a relay.  The wire from the 24 VDC panel for the pressurized water pump passes thru this relay on the Normally Open contacts.  When the timer is in the "ON" mode the relay closes and supplies 24 VDC to the fresh water pump.  When I leave the boat I place the flush valve in the the "flush" position and set the Timer to "Auto" mode so that when the timer commands, the relay closes, energizing the fresh water pump for the period programmed into the timer.  Once the flush is complete the power to the fresh water pump is interrupted by the relay contacts opening.  So the pressurized water system is not always pressurized lest a leak flood the boat.  It is only pressurized during relay closure.

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona
Amel SM 2000 #335