Topics

New sails


Paul Osterberg
 

We are in the market for new sails, and got a reasonable offer from Incidence sails in France made in Hydranet. They do not use foam luff which surprise me they claim and they should now. So to my question. Is there any of you who recently bought sails from Incidence? what is your experience with the sails? especially the head sails does it furl/reef well?
I guess they have a lot of experience in building/making sails for Amel SM
Paul on SY Kerpa SM#259


Ian Townsend
 

We have both main and mizzen sails made by Incidences, new in 2013. I do not like the cut on the mainsail. It is  short of the masthead by over 30 cm (even with the foot raised). Mizzen is fine. And a small but annoying thing is the "Incidences" patch on both sails. They are not colour fast. The blue ink has leeched down onto the sail fabric. 

Ian & Margaret
S/V Loca Lola II 
SM153
Exumas, Bahamas

On May 21, 2019, at 12:32 PM, Paul Osterberg <osterberg.paul.l@...> wrote:

We are in the market for new sails, and got a reasonable offer from Incidence sails in France made in Hydranet. They do not use foam luff which surprise me they claim and they should now. So to my question. Is there any of you who recently bought sails from Incidence? what is your experience with the sails? especially the head sails does it furl/reef well?
I guess they have a lot of experience in building/making sails for Amel SM
Paul on SY Kerpa SM#259


Paul Osterberg
 

Thank's Ian
When you say not happy with the cut, do you only mean it is to short? Or the shape is also bad and it does not perform well?
Paul SY Kerpa SM#259


Ian Townsend
 

Two reasons. First, because it is too short. Second, the shape on ours is a little 'flat'. I find it hard to get an effective foil like shape because it doesn't 'cave' enough at the forward spot where there should be centre of lift. But I am not sure if this is required for in-mast furling.

Ian & Margaret
S/V Loca Lola II 
SM153
Exumas, Bahamas

On May 21, 2019, at 1:04 PM, Paul Osterberg <osterberg.paul.l@...> wrote:

Thank's Ian
When you say not happy with the cut, do you only mean it is to short? Or the shape is also bad and it does not perform well?
Paul SY Kerpa SM#259


Germain Jean-Pierre
 

Hi Paul,

I got a main and genoa by North Sails in NZ for +- Eur 1000 more... but in 3DI Nordam.

Was same price as NS triradials.  

The new sails are tremendous.

Jean-Pierre, Eleuthera, SM 007




On 22 May 2019, at 04:32, Paul Osterberg <osterberg.paul.l@...> wrote:

We are in the market for new sails, and got a reasonable offer from Incidence sails in France made in Hydranet. They do not use foam luff which surprise me they claim and they should now. So to my question. Is there any of you who recently bought sails from Incidence? what is your experience with the sails? especially the head sails does it furl/reef well?
I guess they have a lot of experience in building/making sails for Amel SM
Paul on SY Kerpa SM#259


Gary Wells
 

Just got my quote from Q Sails in Izmir.  While shipping to Maryland is about $400 US, the pricing seemed quite competitive for a full set of hydranet.  Q Sails states that they have provided about 35 sets of sails to Amels so I hope we are in for an easy and perfectly matched replacement.

I know it's still about three weeks until we actually receive the sails so I'm not able to comment on the fit and quality yet, but if customer responsiveness is any indicator I am already impressed.

Gary W.
SM 209, Adagio
Galesville, MD USA


jlm@jlmertz.fr
 

Hello,

I also want to change my sails, could you tell me what are the rates currently for the hydranet ?
Merci
JLMERTZ
on CottonBay

Le 22/05/2019 à 17:21, Gary Wells a écrit :
Just got my quote from Q Sails in Izmir.  While shipping to Maryland is about $400 US, the pricing seemed quite competitive for a full set of hydranet.  Q Sails states that they have provided about 35 sets of sails to Amels so I hope we are in for an easy and perfectly matched replacement.

I know it's still about three weeks until we actually receive the sails so I'm not able to comment on the fit and quality yet, but if customer responsiveness is any indicator I am already impressed.

Gary W.
SM 209, Adagio
Galesville, MD USA

Garanti sans virus. www.avast.com


Stephen Davis
 

We received a new Genoa, Ballooner, and mizzen ballooner from Q sails a few months ago. The sails are excellent quality and fit, and the service was great as well. 

Steve Davis
Aloha SM72
Ko Olina, Hawaii

On May 22, 2019, at 11:21, Gary Wells <gary@...> wrote:

Just got my quote from Q Sails in Izmir.  While shipping to Maryland is about $400 US, the pricing seemed quite competitive for a full set of hydranet.  Q Sails states that they have provided about 35 sets of sails to Amels so I hope we are in for an easy and perfectly matched replacement.

I know it's still about three weeks until we actually receive the sails so I'm not able to comment on the fit and quality yet, but if customer responsiveness is any indicator I am already impressed.

Gary W.
SM 209, Adagio
Galesville, MD USA


 

QSails, rocks! 

35 Amel owners buying from QSails is powerful. I am proud to say that BeBe SM 387 was the first of 35.

If you go to the WiKi Help page at  AmelYachtOwnersGroup.com and click on WiKi in the left column, you will see the test banner advertising for QSails. It will be replaced later this week. QSails not only supplies us with great sails at a great price, they are supporting the cost of having our group located at groups.io

Thanks to QSails and Emrah Oge.

Best,

Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St.
Galveston, Texas 77550
832-380-4970



On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 10:44 AM Stephen Davis <flyboyscd@...> wrote:
We received a new Genoa, Ballooner, and mizzen ballooner from Q sails a few months ago. The sails are excellent quality and fit, and the service was great as well. 

Steve Davis
Aloha SM72
Ko Olina, Hawaii

On May 22, 2019, at 11:21, Gary Wells <gary@...> wrote:

Just got my quote from Q Sails in Izmir.  While shipping to Maryland is about $400 US, the pricing seemed quite competitive for a full set of hydranet.  Q Sails states that they have provided about 35 sets of sails to Amels so I hope we are in for an easy and perfectly matched replacement.

I know it's still about three weeks until we actually receive the sails so I'm not able to comment on the fit and quality yet, but if customer responsiveness is any indicator I am already impressed.

Gary W.
SM 209, Adagio
Galesville, MD USA


Paul Osterberg
 

We have sails from Q sails that we bought three years ago, can't say we are pleased with them on the contrary, would not buy from them again.
Paul SY Kerpa SM#259


Paul Osterberg
 

As I put in an earlier reply, we are not pleased with our sails from Q-sails that we bought three ears ago, therefore we are already in the market for a new set of sails.
Paul SY Kerpa SM#259


Stephen Davis
 

What in particular are you unhappy with on your sails?

Steve
Aloha SM 72

On May 22, 2019, at 2:34 PM, Paul Osterberg <osterberg.paul.l@...> wrote:

We have sails from Q sails that we bought three years ago, can't say we are pleased with them on the contrary, would not buy from them again.
Paul SY Kerpa SM#259


Paul Osterberg
 

Stephen
I'm not please with the shape. Give poor up wind performance. My very old sail that come with our Amel performed better. I have bought new sails to my earlier boats at three times before , I have always felt that I got like a new and better boat. Not this time the other way I'm said to say.
They Wrinkle more than any other furling sail I have had when furling, Leach vibrating a lot unless I pull the leach line very hard, giving a poor shape,. Now they start to de-laminate causing repair. The top of my head sail was almost detached from the rest of the sail, caused by de-lamination said the sail maker who repaired it. They are "only" three years old, but we have sailed from Turkey crossed the Atlantic up US eat coast to Maine and back to The Caribbean. so they have made a few miles, but I did expect more miles out of them, they ar made in cruising laminate and not Hydranet
Hope others have a better experience than I have
Paul on SY Kerpa SM#259


david bruce
 

To whom this may concern,   
We had a 135% headsail built by Elvestrom in S France and were not pleased.  Luff 8cm too long initially, and foot too full making good trim of foot and leach impossible.  They did recut and it’s better but just is not an ‘ahaaa’ sail.  Had to call company headquarters to induce timely service. Don t think cruising boats are their forte.  Quality seems good though.   

David and Shelley Bruce
LIESSE   SN006


On May 22, 2019, at 1:56 PM, Paul Osterberg <osterberg.paul.l@...> wrote:

Stephen
I'm not please with the shape. Give poor up wind performance. My very old sail that come with our Amel performed better. I have bought new sails to my earlier boats at three times before , I have always felt that I got like a new and better boat. Not this time the other way I'm said to say.
They Wrinkle more than any other furling sail I have had when furling, Leach vibrating a lot unless I pull the leach line very hard, giving a poor shape,. Now they start to de-laminate causing repair. The top of my head sail was almost detached from the rest of the sail, caused by de-lamination said the sail maker who repaired it. They are "only" three years old, but we have sailed from Turkey crossed the Atlantic up US eat coast to Maine and back to The Caribbean. so they have made a few miles, but I did expect more miles out of them, they ar made in cruising laminate and not Hydranet
Hope others have a better experience than I have
Paul on SY Kerpa SM#259


Stephen Davis
 

Hi Paul,

Thank you for the detailed explanation, and sorry to hear the sails are not working out well.  So far our Genoa from Q Sails has performed very well, but we have not used it enough to determine long term durability. We also have a cruising laminate, and not hydranet. 

Steve
Aloha SM 72

On May 22, 2019, at 16:56, Paul Osterberg <osterberg.paul.l@...> wrote:

Stephen
I'm not please with the shape. Give poor up wind performance. My very old sail that come with our Amel performed better. I have bought new sails to my earlier boats at three times before , I have always felt that I got like a new and better boat. Not this time the other way I'm said to say.
They Wrinkle more than any other furling sail I have had when furling, Leach vibrating a lot unless I pull the leach line very hard, giving a poor shape,. Now they start to de-laminate causing repair. The top of my head sail was almost detached from the rest of the sail, caused by de-lamination said the sail maker who repaired it. They are "only" three years old, but we have sailed from Turkey crossed the Atlantic up US eat coast to Maine and back to The Caribbean. so they have made a few miles, but I did expect more miles out of them, they ar made in cruising laminate and not Hydranet
Hope others have a better experience than I have
Paul on SY Kerpa SM#259


Teun BAAS
 

I just purchased for A54 the whole set including Asym Spinnaker plus all the extras – 5 sails for approx. USD19K delivered ISTANBUL airport. Hydra Net tri-radial.

This includes the Bill ROUSE YACHT SCHOOL discount and then, without me asking, Emrah gave a some support towards the sky high airfreight from ISTANBUL to PORT VILA VANUATU via AUCKLAND.

 

The communication was excellent – a far cry from some of the other sail makers I contacted.

I trust the quality & cut to be excellent based on the fact that I am number 34 (or so) AYOG member ordering since October 2018 as well as Bill R recommendation (knowing how tremendously picky Bill is on anything AMEL related).

 

I am replacing 3 year old QUANTUM carbon fiber laminated sails which only did approx. 3500 NM but have been sitting furled in the sun for all of those 3 years; the Genoa especially has problems. Every sail maker on board (Dr. SAIL in NOUMEA NEW CAL and Eric here in VANUATU) tells me the QUANTUM sails are excellent and once repaired can go for 10,000 NM; while my fingers are sticking thru the foot of the main. When I ask them if I can take them up north to SOLOMON and PNG and have them repaired locally they tell me that north of PORT VILA no sailmaker in VANUATU. Then they explain that my real problem is that laminated sails are not good for furlers in the tropics. So I decided to bite the bullet and replace as I had the Genoa repaired 3 times since last year July as recently as 3 weeks ago in NOUMEA and then on the way over to PORT VILA again a piece of the lamination came loose.

 

Best Regards Teun

SV AMELIT  A54  #128

 

PORT VILA  VANUATU

May 23, 2019 12:09:23

 

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of jlm@... via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2019 02:27
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] New sails

 

Hello,

I also want to change my sails, could you tell me what are the rates currently for the hydranet ?
Merci
JLMERTZ
on CottonBay

Le 22/05/2019 à 17:21, Gary Wells a écrit :

Just got my quote from Q Sails in Izmir.  While shipping to Maryland is about $400 US, the pricing seemed quite competitive for a full set of hydranet.  Q Sails states that they have provided about 35 sets of sails to Amels so I hope we are in for an easy and perfectly matched replacement.

I know it's still about three weeks until we actually receive the sails so I'm not able to comment on the fit and quality yet, but if customer responsiveness is any indicator I am already impressed.

Gary W.
SM 209, Adagio
Galesville, MD USA

 

Garanti sans virus. www.avast.com


 

Paul, Teun, & All:

We should all be very wary of Laminated sails on an Amel, except for a 55.

The issue is that if Laminate sails wrinkle when furling, the wrinkle can permanently set and eventually the laminate fibers will crack. When even a few fibers crack the sail begins to loose its shape and strength. You have to be very careful when furling sails with Laminants. The boom has to be constantly adjusted up/down to ensure no wrinkling while furling...this is especially a BIG ISSUE with most Amels because the boom cannot be adjusted as easily as booms with adjustable vangs. 

Teun, I am sure that this is what happened to the Laminate sails on Amelit.

Paul, did you buy Laminate sails?

Best,

Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St.
Galveston, Texas 77550
832-380-4970



On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 8:18 PM Teun BAAS <teun@...> wrote:

I just purchased for A54 the whole set including Asym Spinnaker plus all the extras – 5 sails for approx. USD19K delivered ISTANBUL airport. Hydra Net tri-radial.

This includes the Bill ROUSE YACHT SCHOOL discount and then, without me asking, Emrah gave a some support towards the sky high airfreight from ISTANBUL to PORT VILA VANUATU via AUCKLAND.

 

The communication was excellent – a far cry from some of the other sail makers I contacted.

I trust the quality & cut to be excellent based on the fact that I am number 34 (or so) AYOG member ordering since October 2018 as well as Bill R recommendation (knowing how tremendously picky Bill is on anything AMEL related).

 

I am replacing 3 year old QUANTUM carbon fiber laminated sails which only did approx. 3500 NM but have been sitting furled in the sun for all of those 3 years; the Genoa especially has problems. Every sail maker on board (Dr. SAIL in NOUMEA NEW CAL and Eric here in VANUATU) tells me the QUANTUM sails are excellent and once repaired can go for 10,000 NM; while my fingers are sticking thru the foot of the main. When I ask them if I can take them up north to SOLOMON and PNG and have them repaired locally they tell me that north of PORT VILA no sailmaker in VANUATU. Then they explain that my real problem is that laminated sails are not good for furlers in the tropics. So I decided to bite the bullet and replace as I had the Genoa repaired 3 times since last year July as recently as 3 weeks ago in NOUMEA and then on the way over to PORT VILA again a piece of the lamination came loose.

 

Best Regards Teun

SV AMELIT  A54  #128

 

PORT VILA  VANUATU

May 23, 2019 12:09:23

 

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of jlm@... via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2019 02:27
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] New sails

 

Hello,

I also want to change my sails, could you tell me what are the rates currently for the hydranet ?
Merci
JLMERTZ
on CottonBay

Le 22/05/2019 à 17:21, Gary Wells a écrit :

Just got my quote from Q Sails in Izmir.  While shipping to Maryland is about $400 US, the pricing seemed quite competitive for a full set of hydranet.  Q Sails states that they have provided about 35 sets of sails to Amels so I hope we are in for an easy and perfectly matched replacement.

I know it's still about three weeks until we actually receive the sails so I'm not able to comment on the fit and quality yet, but if customer responsiveness is any indicator I am already impressed.

Gary W.
SM 209, Adagio
Galesville, MD USA

 

Garanti sans virus. www.avast.com


Paul Osterberg
 

Bill
We have "Cruising Laminate" which is Dacron with if I understand it correctly has woven in threads of Dyneema to improve strength and stretch. I had that on my previous boat and was very pleased with it, but of course even extensive holiday sailing is nothing close to live aboard cruising, where wear and tear is so much higher. From my experience now I would hesitate to use "cruising Laminate" again.
North sails claim that their 3D sails has superior durability, they might be right but we talking numbers of 23 000 € for a full set of sails. Incidence offer Hydranet sails for just over 11 000 € both ex VAT. so North sails must last much longer to justify the extra cost, assume shape last better on such high tech sail.
Sail is one of the most important part to be pleased with, one use them very frequently, they provide both comfort and safety if they are in proper shape and condition. i.e. quality is VERY important. I have sailed a few charter type boats with almost new charter sail, sails that were not even good when new and the fun of sailing is suddenly much less.
Further crossing oceans and difficult areas where weather quickly deteriorate sail must be forgiving i.e easy to furl at a sudden squall with wind reaching 40 45 knots one have not very much time to adjust the boom for for wrinkle free furling, and I do not know what to adjust to get wrinkle free furling on a head sail. you may claim sails should be furled before the squall hits you, and you might be right, but there are numerous occasions when weather are bad and further deteriorate and quick further reffing is necessary, Big waves strong current and wind and the going can be very tough I do not want any extra hassle to reffed down. And that is one of the many beauties with our Amel, it is a very safe and easy boat to handle, but it require good quality sails that furls well.
Paul on SY Kerpa SM#259


 

I have recommended 3 types of sails from QSails and all of my recommendations utilize sailcloth from the German Company,  Dimension-Polyant. Dimension-Polyant is known as the best in the world. I do not recommend Laminate sailcloth because most Amels do not have boom vangs to adjust the height of the boom when furling, and, as you know, the furling mainsail on a SM will furl in almost any condition as long as the owner has NOT added battens. For many reasons, I never recommend battens, especially on a SM.

I believe it is important to know the advantages and disadvantages of different types of sailcloth and sail construction. You also need to consider the furling capabilities of your Amel. 
This is what I recommend for a SN, SM, or 54: (NOTE: The 55 has an adjustable boom vang and can carry a wider variety, but I recommend Hydranet for a 55)

BEST - HydraNet TriRadial Cut is a TriRadial Cut HydraNet from the German company Dimension-Polyant. I consider Dimension-Polyant the best sailcloth manufacturer in the world, and HydraNet is the best sailcloth.
BETTER - TriRadial Cut Pro Radial Dimension/Polyant Dacron is for those owners wanting a very high-quality Dacron Polyester fiber sailcloth from the German company Dimension-Polyant. I recommend that it is cut and assembled in a TriRadial configuration. This is a slightly higher quality sail with the same TriRadial construction that your Super Maramu had when new.
GOOD - CrossCut AP Dacron is for budget-minded Super Maramu owners who would like a dacron polyester cross-cut sail similar to what Doyle Sails provides. If you plan to own your SM for longer than 5 years, I do NOT recommend this.

Regardless of the choice above, I also recommend:
  1. Laser cutting on HydraNet sails (the laser burns and seals the edges of the cloth enabling single line stitching).
  2. Foam Luff on Genoa
  3. Spectra webbing reinforcement for furling at Head, Tack, & Clew.
     
  4. Sewn Leather Reinforcement of the Clew Ring of welded stainless steel
  5. Kevlar Leech and Foot lines
  6. Premium Tenara® thread
  7. Sunbrella Ultra UV panels
I hope this helps you make a better decision of your sail purchases.

As a note, QSails has performed very well with a total of 29 of my clients. A few clients have experienced delivery issues, which in the end, QSails has assumed responsibility for, even though the responsibility clearly was that of the Air Freight Carrier. I admire Emrah Oge for stepping into these freight situations. I think that many other suppliers would leave that up to you.
Best,

Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St.
Galveston, Texas 77550
832-380-4970



On Thu, May 23, 2019 at 10:13 AM Paul Osterberg <osterberg.paul.l@...> wrote:
Bill
We have "Cruising Laminate" which is Dacron with if I understand it correctly has woven in threads of Dyneema to improve strength and stretch. I had that on my previous boat and was very pleased with it, but of course even extensive holiday sailing is nothing close to live aboard cruising, where wear and tear is so much higher. From my experience now I would hesitate to use "cruising Laminate" again.
North sails claim that their 3D sails has superior durability, they might be right but we talking numbers of 23 000 € for a full set of sails. Incidence offer Hydranet sails for just over 11 000 € both ex VAT. so North sails must last much longer to justify the extra cost, assume shape last better on such high tech sail.
Sail is one of the most important part to be pleased with, one use them very frequently, they provide both comfort and safety if they are in proper shape and condition. i.e. quality is VERY important. I have sailed a few charter type boats with almost new charter sail, sails that were not even good when new and the fun of sailing is suddenly much less.
Further crossing oceans and difficult areas where weather quickly deteriorate sail must be forgiving i.e easy to furl at a sudden squall with wind reaching 40 45 knots one have not very much time to adjust the boom for for wrinkle free furling, and I do not know what to adjust to get wrinkle free furling on a head sail. you may claim sails should be furled before the squall hits you, and you might be right, but there are numerous occasions when weather are bad and further deteriorate and quick further reffing is necessary, Big waves strong current and wind and the going can be very tough I do not want any extra hassle to reffed down. And that is one of the many beauties with our Amel, it is a very safe and easy boat to handle, but it require good quality sails that furls well.
Paul on SY Kerpa SM#259


Ken Powers SV Aquarius
 

Aquarius has a complete set of Hydranet Sails from Qsails, and so far we love them.  We have sailed from Trinidad to New Zealand, and now in Fiji.  The Qsails still look and perform like new.  

The cool thing about buying from Qsails is THEY KNOW YOUR BOAT, and they can provide you sails the fit the first time.  All you have to give them is your Hull Number.  

I told them that I want stock sails for Hull Number 262.  I bought a complete set Main, Mizzen, Genoa, and a Ballooner, and they all fit perfect, the first time.  

You can see the sails on Youtube - Sailing Aquarius Around the World.  


Ken
SailingAquarius.com
Aquarius SM2K #262