Topics

Watermaker


ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@hotmail.com>
 

Hi all,

 We have the 60 lph Dessalator which has nearly 3,200 hours on it in 19 years. Really pleased with its performance.
 However, one weakness is the chrome tap on the control board, because its cock depends on a rubber washer which perishes too easily and I haven't found a way to replace the washer so have had to buy new taps from Dessalator. I think we are now on our fourth.

 We use the tap regularly  to test the quality of the water with a handheld gadget.

What has now happened is that the pipe to the tap has become blocked, so that even with a new tap fitted no water comes out when the tap is opened.

When you switch off the w/m , if you leave the tap open you will hear a sucking noise as air is sucked into the tap.  I think what must have happened is that when the last washer perished a piece of the washer broke off and was sucked into the pipe and now blocks is.

I have tried blowing and sucking but to no avail. The next step would be to insert a wire very gently to see if I can dislodge the obstruction, but I am reluctant to do this is there is a safer way.

Has anyone else had this problem ? Any solutions ?

Ian and Judy, Pen Azen, SM 302 Lavrion, Greece


Mark Erdos
 

Hi Ian and Judy,

 

The tap is available in most hardware stores for under $5

 

watermaker tap 2.jpg

 

watermaker tap 1.jpg

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Panama

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@...>
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2019 12:21 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Watermaker

 

Hi all,

 

 We have the 60 lph Dessalator which has nearly 3,200 hours on it in 19 years. Really pleased with its performance.

 However, one weakness is the chrome tap on the control board, because its cock depends on a rubber washer which perishes too easily and I haven't found a way to replace the washer so have had to buy new taps from Dessalator. I think we are now on our fourth.

 

 We use the tap regularly  to test the quality of the water with a handheld gadget.

 

What has now happened is that the pipe to the tap has become blocked, so that even with a new tap fitted no water comes out when the tap is opened.

 

When you switch off the w/m , if you leave the tap open you will hear a sucking noise as air is sucked into the tap.  I think what must have happened is that when the last washer perished a piece of the washer broke off and was sucked into the pipe and now blocks is.

 

I have tried blowing and sucking but to no avail. The next step would be to insert a wire very gently to see if I can dislodge the obstruction, but I am reluctant to do this is there is a safer way.

 

Has anyone else had this problem ? Any solutions ?

 

Ian and Judy, Pen Azen, SM 302 Lavrion, Greece


ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@hotmail.com>
 

Thanks, Mark,  That will save me few bucks.     It seems that I am going to have to strip down the pipework to dislodge the present blockage. Thankfully, the tank is still filling and the membranes are only two seasons old so I know the quality is good.

 Ian and Judy, Pen Azen, SM 302 Lavrion Greece


From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Mark Erdos <mcerdos@...>
Sent: 28 May 2019 16:15
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Watermaker
 

Hi Ian and Judy,

 

The tap is available in most hardware stores for under $5

 

watermaker tap 2.jpg

 

watermaker tap 1.jpg

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Panama

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@...>
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2019 12:21 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Watermaker

 

Hi all,

 

 We have the 60 lph Dessalator which has nearly 3,200 hours on it in 19 years. Really pleased with its performance.

 However, one weakness is the chrome tap on the control board, because its cock depends on a rubber washer which perishes too easily and I haven't found a way to replace the washer so have had to buy new taps from Dessalator. I think we are now on our fourth.

 

 We use the tap regularly  to test the quality of the water with a handheld gadget.

 

What has now happened is that the pipe to the tap has become blocked, so that even with a new tap fitted no water comes out when the tap is opened.

 

When you switch off the w/m , if you leave the tap open you will hear a sucking noise as air is sucked into the tap.  I think what must have happened is that when the last washer perished a piece of the washer broke off and was sucked into the pipe and now blocks is.

 

I have tried blowing and sucking but to no avail. The next step would be to insert a wire very gently to see if I can dislodge the obstruction, but I am reluctant to do this is there is a safer way.

 

Has anyone else had this problem ? Any solutions ?

 

Ian and Judy, Pen Azen, SM 302 Lavrion, Greece


Davi Rozgonyi
 

That's what the tap is for??? :D I was told to open it when making water and close after. Nothing comes out but a sucking sound :)  I manually pull the tank fill hose each time (super easy right under my feet) and take a shot glass of water to test each time from there.... so I should at the very least keep that tap closed? It doesn't seem to make any difference to my watermaking....


rossirossix4
 

Hi Davi,
Not sure about the other tap ad ours does not have one but....We plumbed in a plastic 3 way just before the tubing enters the tank fill fitting--all you need is a length of hose to do your testing.  We also use this to collect the first production into a plastic jug....we collect about 8+ liters of initial water production to flush the generator when we are done making water.  This water is a bit higher in PPM and if there is any odor it would be in this water.  We think it is a good idea to flush your diesel or generator with fresh water after use.  We think it is the dried up salt water in the generator impellor that causes impeller breakage problems.  https://www.ebay.com/itm/Flair-It-3-Way-Valve-1-2-x-1-2-x-1-2-RV-Marine-Pex-Polybutylene/112658583861?epid=1634386533&hash=item1a3af99135:g:6AIAAOxydUJTMaJk:sc:USPSFirstClass!33125!US!-1  
Bob and Suzanne, KAIMI SM 429 
Aruba


Craig Briggs
 

Bob and Suzanne,
    Just out of curiosity, what's your procedure for flushing your engines' (main & generator) sea water circuits after use? I know some people swear by it, but it seems quite a chore if you're doing it, say, twice a day for the generator and another time for the propulsion engine. Do you, perhaps, have a valve arrangement so you can switch quickly from sea water to fresh?
    I only flush mine if I'm decommissioning the boat on the hard. I remove the intake hose from the strainer, stick that in a bucket of fresh water and run the engine until the water is gone, adding antifreeze if in northern climate.
Craig - SN68 Sangaris


david bruce
 

Hi Craig, 

 On Liesse we have a simple T ball valve with a hose bib, on the intake side of the raw water inlet.  Super easy to connect a hose and run either  the engine or genset on the hard as long as needed.  I also only flush on decommissioning but if one were so inclined it would be easy enough to run a fresh water hose from the boats tank to flush, but I have enough trouble keeping up with all the mandatory maintenance as it is to consider doing this routinely on shutdown, although in an ideal world…..

Best, Dave

Liesse SN006


On May 28, 2019, at 9:15 AM, Mark Erdos <mcerdos@...> wrote:

Hi Ian and Judy,
 
The tap is available in most hardware stores for under $5
 
<image001.jpg>
 
<image002.jpg>
 
 
With best regards,
 
Mark
 
Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently cruising - Panama
 
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@...>
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2019 12:21 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Watermaker
 
Hi all,
 
 We have the 60 lph Dessalator which has nearly 3,200 hours on it in 19 years. Really pleased with its performance.
 However, one weakness is the chrome tap on the control board, because its cock depends on a rubber washer which perishes too easily and I haven't found a way to replace the washer so have had to buy new taps from Dessalator. I think we are now on our fourth.
 
 We use the tap regularly  to test the quality of the water with a handheld gadget.
 
What has now happened is that the pipe to the tap has become blocked, so that even with a new tap fitted no water comes out when the tap is opened.
 
When you switch off the w/m , if you leave the tap open you will hear a sucking noise as air is sucked into the tap.  I think what must have happened is that when the last washer perished a piece of the washer broke off and was sucked into the pipe and now blocks is.
 
I have tried blowing and sucking but to no avail. The next step would be to insert a wire very gently to see if I can dislodge the obstruction, but I am reluctant to do this is there is a safer way.
 
Has anyone else had this problem ? Any solutions ?
 
Ian and Judy, Pen Azen, SM 302 Lavrion, Greece



Mohammad Shirloo
 

Hi Craig;

We do all systems flush when decommissioning for Winter. About 10 minutes per individual system. Anchor wash, AC, refrigeration, generator and engine.

We just serviced the heat exchanger on both the generator and engine, and rhe after cooler on the engine after 10 years and they were in pretty good condition and would have probably not needed service for another 5 years..

I would consider daily fresh water flush excessive an unnecessary for our Maintenace procedures.

Respectfully;


Mohammad Shirloo
323-633-2222 Cell
310-454-3148 Fax

On Jun 5, 2019, at 5:53 PM, Craig Briggs via Groups.Io <sangaris@...> wrote:

Bob and Suzanne,
    Just out of curiosity, what's your procedure for flushing your engines' (main & generator) sea water circuits after use? I know some people swear by it, but it seems quite a chore if you're doing it, say, twice a day for the generator and another time for the propulsion engine. Do you, perhaps, have a valve arrangement so you can switch quickly from sea water to fresh?
    I only flush mine if I'm decommissioning the boat on the hard. I remove the intake hose from the strainer, stick that in a bucket of fresh water and run the engine until the water is gone, adding antifreeze if in northern climate.
Craig - SN68 Sangaris


Alan Leslie
 

Once the watermarked is running in the green zone and producing water, if you back the pressure off, open the tap and then increase the pressure, water will come out of the tap. Turn the tap off and the watermarker runs normally.  We do this for water sample testing with a hand held tds meter 
Cheers 
Alan
Elyse SM437


rossirossix4
 

Hi Davi,
Thanks for asking.  We don't flush engine, generator, etc after every use.  When we do flush things in fresh water depends.  For example today we are at Renaissance Marine (very nice, BTW) in Aruba and are here for 6 nights.  After we arrived we flushed out 1)Yanmar, 2)Anchor Wash Pump, 3 and 4)both toilet pumps and circuits-we use fresh water flush when we have dock water and 5)generator was already flushed 6) AC all 3 loops 7) the distribution manifold which is flushed end to end along with the other items and 8) the strainer itself. 

Fresh water can 1)reduce corrosion which is higher for salt water than fresh water 2) reduce galvanic action by minimizing the salt water connection to AC and feed pumps, etc or dissimilar metals 3)minimize and stop--even kill marine growth and 4)help to dissolve deposits that might be forming--RO water in particular is good at this, and 5) reduce rubber hose odor and aging. 

Our Yanmar for example has the following items that are cooled directly by salt water--1)transmission cooler, 2) turbo intercooler, 3) oil cooler 4)coolant loop and 5) raw water pump and impeller and 6)exhaust elbow and exhaust hoses. 

Is it necessary?  Decide for yourself.  I do know that Amel owners  use Barnacle Buster and other harsh products because of overheating problems, there have been leaks from the oil cooler into salt water necessitating a oil cooler replacement, generator impellers fail and their salt water pump faces have to be sanded, end caps for generator heat exchangers corrode, feed pumps have needed rebuilds, and water manifolds have corroded.  Also, owners have needed to clear marine growth from the manifold and the strainer.  A lot of this stuff is shown in Bill's manual.  In fact if you have any doubts about the impact of salt water just thumb through that manual.

Like other owners with solar and those with wind chargers, or both....we only run the generator infrequently, usually to make water and we have about 5 days to a week of time on average between runs--but at anchorages we have gone as long as 6 weeks before needing to run our generator.   We have enough solar to run our HW heater 30 minutes and still top off our batteries to float.  We usually run our clothes washer while making water but it can also be powered by our inverter underway when we run our engine.  Just de-anchoring and departing an anchorage can require a 30 minute engine run and the fast cycle on our Thompson takes 30 minutes.  We use the standard yellow Xantrex 1800 watt pure sine inverter.

Not trying to brag about our solar capacity, but pointing out that many owners can have long periods of non-use of the generator when anchoring, and of course at a marina.

Procedure--Flushing systems with fresh water is very quick and easy to do.  It sounds involved when describing or discussing it but it is super-simple and quick.  We just close the ball valve inlet for the strainer, open the cover (this is done anyway to check strainer after a trip or generator use) start the device and use a hose or jug or both if your hose can't keep up. .  If you want to make sure you have removed most salt water from the strainer and inlet you can pull fresh water through the toilets or anchor wash before starting and flushing the generator.  Usually we have enough jug water (we have 3-8 litre jugs) to do the entire process.  Good shore pressure water lets you do it with just hose alone....at anchor you can use a combo of cockpit shower hose and jugs but usually we just pour water into the top of the strainer using a jug....easy to keep up and to avoid over filling.  Flushing the generator is a single person operation.  Flushing the engine, toilets, AC and anchor wash is best done by people.

I am sure that it can be done safely, but IMHO there are some risks to plumbing-in a fixture--pressurized water can be forced through the salt water cooling path into the lift mufflers which will fill and then water will climb to to the top of the exhaust loop.  Because our exhaust loops are up high, higher than the exhaust elbows of our generators and diesels, there is a risk of backflooding those.  I'm not saying that a plumbed in approach is wrong, but I would pay attention to design and very close attention to operation--we just use the open strainer top method. It is also possible to supply the water from the 3 way flush valve for your watermaker but we just use hose and/or jugs.

A final note, if you are needing to replace an impeller or do any other work on a salt water circuit, run fresh water through it first.  The water you spill over other things in your engine room will be fresh rather than salt.

Bob and Suzanne, SM KAIMI
Aruba


michael winand
 

Thanks for sharing your own methods. I am going to install a valved manifold to allow me to close off different water circuits. Thinking of additional point for the flushing hose.

On Fri, 7 Jun 2019 at 1:47 am, rossirossix4
<rossidesigngroup@...> wrote:
Hi Davi,
Thanks for asking.  We don't flush engine, generator, etc after every use.  When we do flush things in fresh water depends.  For example today we are at Renaissance Marine (very nice, BTW) in Aruba and are here for 6 nights.  After we arrived we flushed out 1)Yanmar, 2)Anchor Wash Pump, 3 and 4)both toilet pumps and circuits-we use fresh water flush when we have dock water and 5)generator was already flushed 6) AC all 3 loops 7) the distribution manifold which is flushed end to end along with the other items and 8) the strainer itself. 

Fresh water can 1)reduce corrosion which is higher for salt water than fresh water 2) reduce galvanic action by minimizing the salt water connection to AC and feed pumps, etc or dissimilar metals 3)minimize and stop--even kill marine growth and 4)help to dissolve deposits that might be forming--RO water in particular is good at this, and 5) reduce rubber hose odor and aging. 

Our Yanmar for example has the following items that are cooled directly by salt water--1)transmission cooler, 2) turbo intercooler, 3) oil cooler 4)coolant loop and 5) raw water pump and impeller and 6)exhaust elbow and exhaust hoses. 

Is it necessary?  Decide for yourself.  I do know that Amel owners  use Barnacle Buster and other harsh products because of overheating problems, there have been leaks from the oil cooler into salt water necessitating a oil cooler replacement, generator impellers fail and their salt water pump faces have to be sanded, end caps for generator heat exchangers corrode, feed pumps have needed rebuilds, and water manifolds have corroded.  Also, owners have needed to clear marine growth from the manifold and the strainer.  A lot of this stuff is shown in Bill's manual.  In fact if you have any doubts about the impact of salt water just thumb through that manual.

Like other owners with solar and those with wind chargers, or both....we only run the generator infrequently, usually to make water and we have about 5 days to a week of time on average between runs--but at anchorages we have gone as long as 6 weeks before needing to run our generator.   We have enough solar to run our HW heater 30 minutes and still top off our batteries to float.  We usually run our clothes washer while making water but it can also be powered by our inverter underway when we run our engine.  Just de-anchoring and departing an anchorage can require a 30 minute engine run and the fast cycle on our Thompson takes 30 minutes.  We use the standard yellow Xantrex 1800 watt pure sine inverter.

Not trying to brag about our solar capacity, but pointing out that many owners can have long periods of non-use of the generator when anchoring, and of course at a marina.

Procedure--Flushing systems with fresh water is very quick and easy to do.  It sounds involved when describing or discussing it but it is super-simple and quick.  We just close the ball valve inlet for the strainer, open the cover (this is done anyway to check strainer after a trip or generator use) start the device and use a hose or jug or both if your hose can't keep up. .  If you want to make sure you have removed most salt water from the strainer and inlet you can pull fresh water through the toilets or anchor wash before starting and flushing the generator.  Usually we have enough jug water (we have 3-8 litre jugs) to do the entire process.  Good shore pressure water lets you do it with just hose alone....at anchor you can use a combo of cockpit shower hose and jugs but usually we just pour water into the top of the strainer using a jug....easy to keep up and to avoid over filling.  Flushing the generator is a single person operation.  Flushing the engine, toilets, AC and anchor wash is best done by people.

I am sure that it can be done safely, but IMHO there are some risks to plumbing-in a fixture--pressurized water can be forced through the salt water cooling path into the lift mufflers which will fill and then water will climb to to the top of the exhaust loop.  Because our exhaust loops are up high, higher than the exhaust elbows of our generators and diesels, there is a risk of backflooding those.  I'm not saying that a plumbed in approach is wrong, but I would pay attention to design and very close attention to operation--we just use the open strainer top method. It is also possible to supply the water from the 3 way flush valve for your watermaker but we just use hose and/or jugs.

A final note, if you are needing to replace an impeller or do any other work on a salt water circuit, run fresh water through it first.  The water you spill over other things in your engine room will be fresh rather than salt.

Bob and Suzanne, SM KAIMI
Aruba


rossirossix4
 

Hi Michael,
Valved manifolds are a great idea.  We have a ball valve between the Dessalator feed  and the manifold (don't know if all SMs do) and that is useful for 2 reasons--1) when you flush the Dessalator water will push back out that hose.  The ball valve can be shut and this prevents salt water from sitting in that hose or entering it when the manifold is supplying salt water for other things such as toilets. 2) IF you have a leak in the 3 way fresh water flush valve for the Dessalator AND your ball valve to the strainer is closed, that leak will eventually push water into the lift muffler and will rise up through the exhaust loop and can flood your generator (its loop is lower than the Yanmar/Volvo).  This has happened to at least 2 Amel owners that I know.  Having the supply from the manifold to the Dessalator closed is additional insurance that this will not happen.

A couple of months ago we were in the Amel Center in Le Marin and saw these manifolds---which they were fabricating for an Amel 54....Albon told me they could supply for an SM as well.  Didier also talked about installing a valved manifold.  https://photos.app.goo.gl/pjai3vDYRTAg3kbT9

Bob, KAIMI