Topics

Bow thruster seals

Stephen Davis
 

Earlier in this thread, Jose Venegas of S/V Ipanema references a prior post in which he posted photos showing his silicone bow thruster seals installed. We’re in the middle of installing the seals now, and searched high and low for his prior post. For those who follow and want to see it, it’s located here and does indeed show the seals installed.

https://amelyachtowners.groups.io/g/main/message/46175?p=,,,20,0,0,0::Created,,Bow+thruster+seal,20,2,20,31943408

—Liz Davis
S/V Aloha, SM 72

Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222
 

He Davi
We are we are in Kalamata at 12.10 and have two on board
When it helps

Best Elja
SM 222 Balu

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Davi Rozgonyi
 

Hey there put me down for 2 sets also please.... shipping to greece. How do I give you the info and payment? 

JOHN HAYES
 

Hi from Noumea 

We made replacements using wet suit material 

So far worked perfectly across a couple of thousand miles of the pacific

John Hayes 

NGA Waka 


On 26/09/2019, at 5:50 AM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:

Hi Bob, facinating memories. It would have been 2009. As to bow thruster. On 299 there is open access from the bow thruster to the bilge beside the forward head. Any leak accumulates there. However I dont wait for that volume. I just have a look periodically at where the thruster tube comes through the hull. If there is the slightest trickle I replace the lip seal. However this time I found some water in the bilge when I went to remove the speed log transducer when it blocked as we sailed through floating pumice from an undersea eruption near Tonga. As i said before, it would be only the third time in 11 years I have done this between haulouts.

Kind regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 26 September 2019 at 04:07 rossirossix4 <rossidesigngroup@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,
I've wondered about this.  How do you spot water in the bow thruster?
Bob, KAIMI SM 429

Flashback:  Years ago (12?) our Santorin we were anchored near Ocean Pearl outside the Annapolis boat show.  Earlier I had mentioned that we always leave a note with our names and cell phone numbers near our helm.  Got a call from Danny as we were headed to our dingy from the show....a Pinky Schooner was on a rope rode and wandering around smacking into boats.....Danny had remembered this and located our number and called us.  The schooner had bent our lifeline tubing but we were able to prevent another attack (with his help) and warn other boats!  We've always left our number in the cockpit--actually had a plastic placard made up-- AND we use magic marker to put our cell numbers on the dingy transom.  

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Absolutely right Mark. Sorry I wasnt clear enough. Talking at cross purposes they call it.

Regards

Danny

On 26 September 2019 at 04:53 Mark McGovern <mfmcgovern@...> wrote:

Bob,

I'm pretty sure Danny is referring to the 60mm x 80mm x 12mm lip seal for the Bowthruster tube, not for the one for the Bowthruster propeller.

This one:

  
--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Bob, facinating memories. It would have been 2009. As to bow thruster. On 299 there is open access from the bow thruster to the bilge beside the forward head. Any leak accumulates there. However I dont wait for that volume. I just have a look periodically at where the thruster tube comes through the hull. If there is the slightest trickle I replace the lip seal. However this time I found some water in the bilge when I went to remove the speed log transducer when it blocked as we sailed through floating pumice from an undersea eruption near Tonga. As i said before, it would be only the third time in 11 years I have done this between haulouts.

Kind regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 26 September 2019 at 04:07 rossirossix4 <rossidesigngroup@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,
I've wondered about this.  How do you spot water in the bow thruster?
Bob, KAIMI SM 429

Flashback:  Years ago (12?) our Santorin we were anchored near Ocean Pearl outside the Annapolis boat show.  Earlier I had mentioned that we always leave a note with our names and cell phone numbers near our helm.  Got a call from Danny as we were headed to our dingy from the show....a Pinky Schooner was on a rope rode and wandering around smacking into boats.....Danny had remembered this and located our number and called us.  The schooner had bent our lifeline tubing but we were able to prevent another attack (with his help) and warn other boats!  We've always left our number in the cockpit--actually had a plastic placard made up-- AND we use magic marker to put our cell numbers on the dingy transom.  

Mark McGovern
 
Edited

Bob,

I'm pretty sure Danny is referring to the 60mm x 80mm x 12mm lip seal for the Bowthruster tube, not the one for the Bowthruster propeller.

This one:

  
--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA

rossirossix4
 

Hi Danny,
I've wondered about this.  How do you spot water in the bow thruster?
Bob, KAIMI SM 429

Flashback:  Years ago (12?) our Santorin we were anchored near Ocean Pearl outside the Annapolis boat show.  Earlier I had mentioned that we always leave a note with our names and cell phone numbers near our helm.  Got a call from Danny as we were headed to our dingy from the show....a Pinky Schooner was on a rope rode and wandering around smacking into boats.....Danny had remembered this and located our number and called us.  The schooner had bent our lifeline tubing but we were able to prevent another attack (with his help) and warn other boats!  We've always left our number in the cockpit--actually had a plastic placard made up-- AND we use magic marker to put our cell numbers on the dingy transom.  

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Jose,
This is probably the third time in 11 years I have done an in water, between haul-out lip seal replacement. Just routine. As soon as I see a trace of water I act. Hasn't happened too often and I don't expect any problems this time. If so I know who to contact.
Kind Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
Enjoying Fiji

Jose Venegas
 

Hi Danny,
Good luck with your seal. It could have been a bad seal but it is also possible that the shaft is no longer lined up and over time the seals get deformed and looses its lip tension. At one point even new seals will not be able to adapt to the lack of alignment and begin to leak soon after installed.

Jose
Ipanema SM2K 278
Boston

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Jose 

Sounds a good system. So far the standard amel seals have done the job for me. I have just done an in water lip seal change  I always carry a spare. A slight leak had developed on the sail to fiji from nz. The seal I removed had lost its lip tension and was a loose fit. On past experience I wont need to change it again before my next haulout.

Kind regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean pearl

On 24 September 2019 at 14:50 eric freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:

Hi Jose,

What is your email address?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jose Venegas via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2019 1:32 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster seals

 

Danny,
I understand very well how the system SHOULD work and, if everything is new, the seals should work as designed.  Unfortunately, wear can change the system and, in my case nothing worked to stop the leak, including several adjustments of cable tension, and increasing compression by the pin.  As I said in my previous e-mails, I believe the problem occurs because the wear of the surfaces between the hull and the thruster that guide its motion result in a misalignment between the trunk and the seal, causing a lateral force on the lip seal which makes it incompetent allowing water intake.  The misalignment also results in the sealing surfaces between the donut seals and the hull are no longer parallel affecting its sealing action.   Following Amel instructions and wasting seals, money and time I realized that the problem could be corrected by designing a seal that would be made of a softer material and have lips that could maintain the seal in the presence of misalignment.   That solved the problem 3 years ago and I have had a dry bilge ever since.!!
In my design, I used two seals in series: a silicone wiper below and a silicone u-cup on top. This results in a slight protrusion of the seal above the horizontal fiberglass surface, as it can be seen in the pix I sent before.    I used silicone glue to secure the seals in place and was planning to add washers to secure them to the fiberglass, but after several months of procrastination, I realized that the glue was sufficient to keep the seals in place.  3 years later, using the thruster twice per week, almost every week during 6 months each summer, including a Marion to Bermuda race the seals are still working as new.  Since I add silicone grease to the trunk every year and, given the number of times (~50/year) that I use the thruster,   I am expecting that they will last a very long time.  So far I have serviced the thruster every year but have decided not to change any of the seals, including the donut seals, which looked in excellent condition.

I just received the quote from the seal manufacturer and it is as follows:

10 pcs. Silicone wiper $ 31.65ea.

10 pcs. Silicone u-cup  $ 32.50ea.


This it will be about $65 per set plus shipment and It will take  14-17 business days to ship from the order

so far I have received requests from:

Bob Ross, sv Nomad, Trinidad (1 set) 
Ian and Judy, Pen Azen, SM 302, Greece (?sets)
Chuck_Kim_Joy (? sets)

Steve Davis Aloha SM72  Ko Olina, Hawaii (? sets)
Mark, Cream Puff - SM2K - #275 (? sets)
Dan Taylor (2 sets)

Gerald Bassin Jetlag, SM113 (2 sets)

Since I want to place the order this week I will appreciate if each of you can e-mail me directly with your e-mail, the number of sets you want and the address two where it should be shipped.   
We still need to figure out the cost of shipping to each one of you and how you will transfer me the money, but given that is something we can figure out later.


Jose 
Ipanema SM2k 278, Boston

 



 


 

eric freedman
 

Hi Jose,

What is your email address?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jose Venegas via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2019 1:32 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster seals

 

Danny,
I understand very well how the system SHOULD work and, if everything is new, the seals should work as designed.  Unfortunately, wear can change the system and, in my case nothing worked to stop the leak, including several adjustments of cable tension, and increasing compression by the pin.  As I said in my previous e-mails, I believe the problem occurs because the wear of the surfaces between the hull and the thruster that guide its motion result in a misalignment between the trunk and the seal, causing a lateral force on the lip seal which makes it incompetent allowing water intake.  The misalignment also results in the sealing surfaces between the donut seals and the hull are no longer parallel affecting its sealing action.   Following Amel instructions and wasting seals, money and time I realized that the problem could be corrected by designing a seal that would be made of a softer material and have lips that could maintain the seal in the presence of misalignment.   That solved the problem 3 years ago and I have had a dry bilge ever since.!!
In my design, I used two seals in series: a silicone wiper below and a silicone u-cup on top. This results in a slight protrusion of the seal above the horizontal fiberglass surface, as it can be seen in the pix I sent before.    I used silicone glue to secure the seals in place and was planning to add washers to secure them to the fiberglass, but after several months of procrastination, I realized that the glue was sufficient to keep the seals in place.  3 years later, using the thruster twice per week, almost every week during 6 months each summer, including a Marion to Bermuda race the seals are still working as new.  Since I add silicone grease to the trunk every year and, given the number of times (~50/year) that I use the thruster,   I am expecting that they will last a very long time.  So far I have serviced the thruster every year but have decided not to change any of the seals, including the donut seals, which looked in excellent condition.

I just received the quote from the seal manufacturer and it is as follows:

10 pcs. Silicone wiper $ 31.65ea.

10 pcs. Silicone u-cup  $ 32.50ea.


This it will be about $65 per set plus shipment and It will take  14-17 business days to ship from the order

so far I have received requests from:

Bob Ross, sv Nomad, Trinidad (1 set) 
Ian and Judy, Pen Azen, SM 302, Greece (?sets)
Chuck_Kim_Joy (? sets)

Steve Davis Aloha SM72  Ko Olina, Hawaii (? sets)
Mark, Cream Puff - SM2K - #275 (? sets)
Dan Taylor (2 sets)

Gerald Bassin Jetlag, SM113 (2 sets)

Since I want to place the order this week I will appreciate if each of you can e-mail me directly with your e-mail, the number of sets you want and the address two where it should be shipped.   
We still need to figure out the cost of shipping to each one of you and how you will transfer me the money, but given that is something we can figure out later.


Jose 
Ipanema SM2k 278, Boston

Alan Leslie
 

When we first bought the boat we had leaks from the bowthruster in heavy seas.
After haul out and replacing all the seals and adjusting the lifting mechanism as advised by Bill, Danny et al, we have not had any leaks in 6 years now.
We replace all the seals every two years when hauled out for antifoul, C-drive service and bowthruster, and no issues.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437

David Cummane
 

Jose

Well done for offering to replicate the seals for others.  I would love 2 sets if possible.

I would suggest using transferwise, or its equivalent, for payments - easy for international transfers and very clear regarding the amount the beneficiary receives.  Paypal and other payment providers discount the fees from the payment so the sender doesn't see the exact amount the beneficiary receives.  If you lose 5% on all these seals it might annoy you!

Thanks

David
SM#101

eric freedman
 

Lo Siento Jose,

I thought it was Danny placing the order.

Please order 2 sets for me.

I can send you $$ via PayPal if you wish.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2019 12:19 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster seals

 

Hi eric  its Jose who had the seals.

Regsrds

Dsnny

On 14 June 2019 at 15:37 eric freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

I would also like 2 sets of seals.

Sounds like a great idea and they can be changed while the boat is in the water.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jose Venegas via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2019 1:32 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster seals

 

Danny,
I understand very well how the system SHOULD work and, if everything is new, the seals should work as designed.  Unfortunately, wear can change the system and, in my case nothing worked to stop the leak, including several adjustments of cable tension, and increasing compression by the pin.  As I said in my previous e-mails, I believe the problem occurs because the wear of the surfaces between the hull and the thruster that guide its motion result in a misalignment between the trunk and the seal, causing a lateral force on the lip seal which makes it incompetent allowing water intake.  The misalignment also results in the sealing surfaces between the donut seals and the hull are no longer parallel affecting its sealing action.   Following Amel instructions and wasting seals, money and time I realized that the problem could be corrected by designing a seal that would be made of a softer material and have lips that could maintain the seal in the presence of misalignment.   That solved the problem 3 years ago and I have had a dry bilge ever since.!!
In my design, I used two seals in series: a silicone wiper below and a silicone u-cup on top. This results in a slight protrusion of the seal above the horizontal fiberglass surface, as it can be seen in the pix I sent before.    I used silicone glue to secure the seals in place and was planning to add washers to secure them to the fiberglass, but after several months of procrastination, I realized that the glue was sufficient to keep the seals in place.  3 years later, using the thruster twice per week, almost every week during 6 months each summer, including a Marion to Bermuda race the seals are still working as new.  Since I add silicone grease to the trunk every year and, given the number of times (~50/year) that I use the thruster,   I am expecting that they will last a very long time.  So far I have serviced the thruster every year but have decided not to change any of the seals, including the donut seals, which looked in excellent condition.

I just received the quote from the seal manufacturer and it is as follows:

10 pcs. Silicone wiper $ 31.65ea.

10 pcs. Silicone u-cup  $ 32.50ea.


This it will be about $65 per set plus shipment and It will take  14-17 business days to ship from the order

so far I have received requests from:

Bob Ross, sv Nomad, Trinidad (1 set) 
Ian and Judy, Pen Azen, SM 302, Greece (?sets)
Chuck_Kim_Joy (? sets)

Steve Davis Aloha SM72  Ko Olina, Hawaii (? sets)
Mark, Cream Puff - SM2K - #275 (? sets)
Dan Taylor (2 sets)

Gerald Bassin Jetlag, SM113 (2 sets)

Since I want to place the order this week I will appreciate if each of you can e-mail me directly with your e-mail, the number of sets you want and the address two where it should be shipped.   
We still need to figure out the cost of shipping to each one of you and how you will transfer me the money, but given that is something we can figure out later.


Jose 
Ipanema SM2k 278, Boston

 

 


 


 

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi eric  its Jose who had the seals.

Regsrds

Dsnny

On 14 June 2019 at 15:37 eric freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

I would also like 2 sets of seals.

Sounds like a great idea and they can be changed while the boat is in the water.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jose Venegas via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2019 1:32 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster seals

 

Danny,
I understand very well how the system SHOULD work and, if everything is new, the seals should work as designed.  Unfortunately, wear can change the system and, in my case nothing worked to stop the leak, including several adjustments of cable tension, and increasing compression by the pin.  As I said in my previous e-mails, I believe the problem occurs because the wear of the surfaces between the hull and the thruster that guide its motion result in a misalignment between the trunk and the seal, causing a lateral force on the lip seal which makes it incompetent allowing water intake.  The misalignment also results in the sealing surfaces between the donut seals and the hull are no longer parallel affecting its sealing action.   Following Amel instructions and wasting seals, money and time I realized that the problem could be corrected by designing a seal that would be made of a softer material and have lips that could maintain the seal in the presence of misalignment.   That solved the problem 3 years ago and I have had a dry bilge ever since.!!
In my design, I used two seals in series: a silicone wiper below and a silicone u-cup on top. This results in a slight protrusion of the seal above the horizontal fiberglass surface, as it can be seen in the pix I sent before.    I used silicone glue to secure the seals in place and was planning to add washers to secure them to the fiberglass, but after several months of procrastination, I realized that the glue was sufficient to keep the seals in place.  3 years later, using the thruster twice per week, almost every week during 6 months each summer, including a Marion to Bermuda race the seals are still working as new.  Since I add silicone grease to the trunk every year and, given the number of times (~50/year) that I use the thruster,   I am expecting that they will last a very long time.  So far I have serviced the thruster every year but have decided not to change any of the seals, including the donut seals, which looked in excellent condition.

I just received the quote from the seal manufacturer and it is as follows:

10 pcs. Silicone wiper $ 31.65ea.

10 pcs. Silicone u-cup  $ 32.50ea.


This it will be about $65 per set plus shipment and It will take  14-17 business days to ship from the order

so far I have received requests from:

Bob Ross, sv Nomad, Trinidad (1 set) 
Ian and Judy, Pen Azen, SM 302, Greece (?sets)
Chuck_Kim_Joy (? sets)

Steve Davis Aloha SM72  Ko Olina, Hawaii (? sets)
Mark, Cream Puff - SM2K - #275 (? sets)
Dan Taylor (2 sets)

Gerald Bassin Jetlag, SM113 (2 sets)

Since I want to place the order this week I will appreciate if each of you can e-mail me directly with your e-mail, the number of sets you want and the address two where it should be shipped.   
We still need to figure out the cost of shipping to each one of you and how you will transfer me the money, but given that is something we can figure out later.


Jose 
Ipanema SM2k 278, Boston

 



 


 

eric freedman
 

Hi Danny,

I would also like 2 sets of seals.

Sounds like a great idea and they can be changed while the boat is in the water.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jose Venegas via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2019 1:32 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster seals

 

Danny,
I understand very well how the system SHOULD work and, if everything is new, the seals should work as designed.  Unfortunately, wear can change the system and, in my case nothing worked to stop the leak, including several adjustments of cable tension, and increasing compression by the pin.  As I said in my previous e-mails, I believe the problem occurs because the wear of the surfaces between the hull and the thruster that guide its motion result in a misalignment between the trunk and the seal, causing a lateral force on the lip seal which makes it incompetent allowing water intake.  The misalignment also results in the sealing surfaces between the donut seals and the hull are no longer parallel affecting its sealing action.   Following Amel instructions and wasting seals, money and time I realized that the problem could be corrected by designing a seal that would be made of a softer material and have lips that could maintain the seal in the presence of misalignment.   That solved the problem 3 years ago and I have had a dry bilge ever since.!!
In my design, I used two seals in series: a silicone wiper below and a silicone u-cup on top. This results in a slight protrusion of the seal above the horizontal fiberglass surface, as it can be seen in the pix I sent before.    I used silicone glue to secure the seals in place and was planning to add washers to secure them to the fiberglass, but after several months of procrastination, I realized that the glue was sufficient to keep the seals in place.  3 years later, using the thruster twice per week, almost every week during 6 months each summer, including a Marion to Bermuda race the seals are still working as new.  Since I add silicone grease to the trunk every year and, given the number of times (~50/year) that I use the thruster,   I am expecting that they will last a very long time.  So far I have serviced the thruster every year but have decided not to change any of the seals, including the donut seals, which looked in excellent condition.

I just received the quote from the seal manufacturer and it is as follows:

10 pcs. Silicone wiper $ 31.65ea.

10 pcs. Silicone u-cup  $ 32.50ea.


This it will be about $65 per set plus shipment and It will take  14-17 business days to ship from the order

so far I have received requests from:

Bob Ross, sv Nomad, Trinidad (1 set) 
Ian and Judy, Pen Azen, SM 302, Greece (?sets)
Chuck_Kim_Joy (? sets)

Steve Davis Aloha SM72  Ko Olina, Hawaii (? sets)
Mark, Cream Puff - SM2K - #275 (? sets)
Dan Taylor (2 sets)

Gerald Bassin Jetlag, SM113 (2 sets)

Since I want to place the order this week I will appreciate if each of you can e-mail me directly with your e-mail, the number of sets you want and the address two where it should be shipped.   
We still need to figure out the cost of shipping to each one of you and how you will transfer me the money, but given that is something we can figure out later.


Jose 
Ipanema SM2k 278, Boston

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Jose,

the seals are not expensive and why not change them while the boat is out on its very expensive haul out every two years. Look forward to welcoming you to the Pacific.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 14 June 2019 at 09:32 "Jose Venegas via Groups.Io" <josegvenegas@...> wrote:

Danny,

Bi-annual seal change for little use seems excessive compared with over 3+ years of heavy use without changing ANY seals but...
if it is working for you it's fine with me.

Hopefully will be heading your way in 2021.

Jose
SM 278 Ipanema



 

Jose Venegas
 

Danny,

Bi-annual seal change for little use seems excessive compared with over 3+ years of heavy use without changing ANY seals but...
if it is working for you it's fine with me.

Hopefully will be heading your way in 2021.

Jose
SM 278 Ipanema



 

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Jose,

that's good you have the anti twist.. Ocean Pearl's seals were leaking badly when we bought her but we replaced the seals when we did the anti foul before we first set off and have never had any trouble since. Bi annual foam seal replacement is all we have ever done and occasionally we have had to do a lip seal between the bi annuals. However we are not heavy users of the thruster.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 14 June 2019 at 08:17 "Jose Venegas via Groups.Io" <josegvenegas@...> wrote:

Danny, I am not sure if my system is original or retrofit.  It does seem to have an anti-twist vertical tube mounted beside the thruster.  All I know is that when I bought Ipanema (Nike before) in Florida, (about the same time you bought Ocean Perl) The previous owner did not mention it.  However, we got a lot of water in while we sailed the boat from Florida to Georgia, even though the owner had just changed the seals on her. 

Jose Ipanema SM 278