Topics

gross and net tonnage

Patrick McAneny
 

I am getting ready to renew my C.G. documentation and I want to correct the stated tonnage ,which is wrong and overstated. While in the Caribbean this year we overcharged upon entry based on the tonnage . My gross is shown to be 58GRT and net is shown to be 46NRT. Could someone tell me the correct numbers for a SM registered in the US. This is the second time down there and have probably paid well over a hundred more than we should have,I should have taken care of this years ago. Once we were with another SM checking in to BVI and we paid significantly more to customs, because they had much lower tonnage.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans #123

Denise McGovern
 

Pat,

Based on USCG Form 5397, Application for Simplified Measurement, CARA is documented 26 GRT and 23 NRT.

Denise
SM #440 CARA
Deale, MD, USA

--
Denise McGovern
mcgovern.denise@...

Patrick McAneny
 

Denise, That is about half of what my document shows , thus I have been paying twice what I should in the countries that use tonnage to calculate fees.
Thank ,
Pat SM #123


-----Original Message-----
From: Denise McGovern <Mcgovern.denise@...>
To: main <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Jun 13, 2019 12:45 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] gross and net tonnage

Pat,

Based on USCG Form 5397, Application for Simplified Measurement, CARA is documented 26 GRT and 23 NRT.

Denise
SM #440 CARA
Deale, MD, USA

--
Denise McGovern
mcgovern.denise@...

Craig & Katherine Briggs
 

HI Pat,
Go to the USCG Vessel Documentation pages and they have a simplified measurement methodology you can easily follow to calculate this yourself.  Also see earlier postings on the subject - the numbers for SM's were all over the place.
Craig SN68 Gross 31 Net 28

sbmesasailor
 

I was impacted by this issue in many marinas as well.  The problem as I recall is due to a formula that USCG uses to compute your Gross and Net.  The formula is based on the length, width, and depth.  You have to fudge the dimensions to get the weight figures to come out right.  As the length is most important to most non-weight considering marinas, you need to fudge the width and/or depth numbers.

Nobody ever checked my fudged numbers on the width and depth and I never had to overpay for a lighter boat again.

Dennis Johns
Libertad
Maramu 121
Circled the world 2011-2017

Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown
 

A while back our 54 was weighed by a travel-lift at about 23 metric tons.

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of sbmesasailor via Groups.Io
Sent: 14 June 2019 18:43
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] gross and net tonnage

 

I was impacted by this issue in many marinas as well.  The problem as I recall is due to a formula that USCG uses to compute your Gross and Net.  The formula is based on the length, width, and depth.  You have to fudge the dimensions to get the weight figures to come out right.  As the length is most important to most non-weight considering marinas, you need to fudge the width and/or depth numbers.

 

Nobody ever checked my fudged numbers on the width and depth and I never had to overpay for a lighter boat again.

 

Dennis Johns

Libertad

Maramu 121

Circled the world 2011-2017


--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

Craig & Katherine Briggs
 

Dennis and Paul et al,
Do note that Gross and Net Tons have nothing to do with what your boat weighs.  They are volume measures originally used for tax to be paid on the volume of cargo. It has nothing to do with what your boat weighs on the travel-lift and you don't need to "fudge" the USCG formula to get what you think the boat weighs - that's wrong.  Here is an excerpt from the USCG's publication:
"2. GROSS / NET TONNAGE VS. DISPLACEMENT TONNAGE This Guide addresses gross and net tonnage, which relate to vessel volume and appear on a documented vessel's Certificate of Documentation (COD). Gross and net tonnage is widely used as the basis for vessel regulation and assessment of taxes and fees. Gross and net tonnage is not to be confused with displacement or weight tonnage, often expressed in "pounds", "tons" or "long tons".
Click on this link to read the publication and be able to correctly calculate your boat's Gross and Net Tonnage (which again, is NOT displacement or weight tonnage).
https://www.dco.uscg.mil/Portals/9/DCO%20Documents/Marine%20Safety%20Center/Tonnage/Tonnage%20Guide%201%20-%20Simplified%20Measurement.pdf?ver=2017-06-09-123757-680

Good luck with it - it is really quite easy once you get the idea of weight out of your mind - it is not weight.

Cheers, Craig SN68 Sangaris Gross 31T Net 28T and it weighs about 11 tons on the travel lift.

sbmesasailor
 

Hi Craig,

Your statement that Gross and Net Tons have nothing to do with what your boat weighs is not quite acccurate.

Displacement is the volume of water displaced when the vessel is freely floating and such volume will equal the total weight of the boat and all items thereon at that time. It is a direct relation to overal weight.

The USCG formula was designed for cargo-carrying vessels.  That is why the formula is so far off for sailboats and sailboat owners have issues with the difference.

Dennis

Thomas Kleman
 

L'ORIENT is listed as gross 21 and net 19 on the USCG docs; and not sure if everyone is aware that beginning recently you can now register for multi-year periods vs the old system requiring annual registration 

Craig & Katherine Briggs
 

Hi Dennis,

Oh my, I'm not quite sure how to reply, but you seem still to be totally misunderstanding this measurement.

Displacement is indeed, as you note, the weight of the boat. It is indeed equal to the weight of the water displaced and like that.  But the Gross and Net tons on your documentation have absolutely and positively nothing whatsoever to do with what your boar weighs or the weight of the water it displaces or anything of the like.  The USCG Simplified Measurement scheme is NOT trying to estimate what your boat weighs (or the weight of the water it displaces). Displacement and registered "tonnage" (Gross and Net) are apples and oranges.

Yes, the system did evolve from measurements to collect taxes from cargo carrying vessels based on cargo-carrying capacity but it is not "off" for sailboats - it is totally consistent for all documented vessels. It is what the USCG specifies it to be.  It is defined very clearly by them. It is not "off" - it is oranges, even if you want it to be apples. 

That some sailboat owners have issues with the "difference" points out those sailboat owners lack of understanding of the apples and oranges difference. Those owners want it to be weight (apples) but it is actually volume (oranges). And, of course, sailboat owners, being parsimonious CARBS (Cheap Ass Rag Baggers, like me), always want to pay less in port fees with a lower Tonnage. (Which is not to say that if yours is overstated you shouldn't correct it - but it still has nothing to do with what the travel lift scale says.)

So, the point I'm afraid you're missing is what the Coast Guard so clearly points out. Namely, that Gross and Net Tons are a measure of cargo carrying volume and should not be confused with displacement or weight.  You seem still to be confusing those when you say the formula is "so far off", because the formula is absolutely not trying to come up with the weight of the boat or an estimate thereof.  It is estimating the cargo carry volume of your vessel in some historic 100 cu foot units that the government has adopted as standard for all documented vessels.

Not sure I can put a finer point on this and fear I may already have put too fine a point on it. Gross and Net Tons on your USCG documentation have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with what your boat weighs. You may want to reread the USCG document to get your head around this.

Respectfully,
Craig SN68 Sangaris USCG Registered Gross Tons 31, Net Tons 28, Displacement Tons (weight) about 11 Tons.