Topics

Flag etiquette


Joerg Esdorn
 

I believe that the “proper” way to fly the national ensign on a ketch is 2/3 up the topping lift or on the top of the mizzen mast.  I have, of course, the stern mounted flag pole Amel provides.   Has anyone rigged the “proper” way on their boat?  I’d be very interested in the mechanics.  For one, I’d like to get the flag where I can’t hear it flogging around in a blow.  

Joerg Esdorn 
A55 Kincsem 


Craig Briggs
 

Aha! Time for the Flag Police!
USPower Squadron says from the end of the gaff, if you've got one, otherwise from a pole at the stern, which if it can't be in the middle should preferably be on the starboard side. (Maybe the French prefer the port side?)
The State of Maryland actually has a law that says, for a ketch rig, either at the stern staff (doesn't say middle, port or starboard - whew!) or 2/3's up the leach of the mizzen (or at the gaff, if so rigged). They also require the flag to be a Yacht Ensign (13 stars and an anchor, not a US country flag). Odd law that you can't fly an American Flag on your boat.
Other "authorities" say you can fly it from the backstay, rather than the leach of the mizzen, and Captain Henri said you can fly it from the topping lift.
I"m sure there are 67 other versions of this, so no need to get our knickers in a bunch (well, unless you're in Maryland - jeees, an actual law.)
Cheers, Craig SN68 Sangaris


Mark McGovern
 

I thought Bill Rouse was the Flag Police?  

http://svbebe.blogspot.com/2016/05/false-colors.html

Yep!  He is indeed!  ;)


--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


Chuck_Kim_Joy
 

Good read and well stated Bill. I fly the ensign as large as I can with pride. I respect other nationalities who do the same. This fellow sounds like someone who wants the cake with no hand in baking it or even being in the bakery. 
Best regards,
Chuck 


On Tue, Jun 18, 2019 at 5:47 PM Mark McGovern <mfmcgovern@...> wrote:
I thought Bill Rouse was the Flag Police?  

http://svbebe.blogspot.com/2016/05/false-colors.html

Yep!  He is indeed!  ;)


--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


 

Actually the British Royal Yacht Clubs are. All of it started there.

We kept a copy aboard of Reeds Maritime Flags by Peter Johnson

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970



On Tue, Jun 18, 2019 at 4:47 PM Mark McGovern <mfmcgovern@...> wrote:
I thought Bill Rouse was the Flag Police?  

http://svbebe.blogspot.com/2016/05/false-colors.html

Yep!  He is indeed!  ;)


--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


Davi Rozgonyi
 

I don't know much about where to fly my own flag (it's off the stern on the Amel pole, about an inch per foot of boat as is about right, and in any case I don't care much as it is a convenience country). But I do know that hanging around here in Sicily the last few months, I have seen exactly ZERO visiting boats who bothered to put up the Sicilian flag (same went in Sardinia last month before here). Went looking for one after a week in port, found it, hoisted it right below the Italian courtesy, and watched the attitudes of anybody local change immediately from stranger-friendly to family-friendly. A number of direct positive comments as well, including from the Costeria who waved instead of boarded. Don't neglect local flags because here, as an example, Sicilians consider themselves more Sicilian than actual Italian. Same for Sardinia, and I'm sure many other regions around the world. Just my 2 cents on flags....


Peter Forbes
 

I will get out my copy of the ROYAL YACH SQUADRON instructions on this and send you a photocopy on this and how to ‘dress all over’ - should be able to do that on Friday.

best wishes

Peter

Peter Forbes
0044 7836 209730
Carango  Sailing Ketch
Amel 54 #035
La Rochelle FOR SALE.

On 19 Jun 2019, at 08:30, Davi Rozgonyi <davi.rozgonyi@...> wrote:

I don't know much about where to fly my own flag (it's off the stern on the Amel pole, about an inch per foot of boat as is about right, and in any case I don't care much as it is a convenience country). But I do know that hanging around here in Sicily the last few months, I have seen exactly ZERO visiting boats who bothered to put up the Sicilian flag (same went in Sardinia last month before here). Went looking for one after a week in port, found it, hoisted it right below the Italian courtesy, and watched the attitudes of anybody local change immediately from stranger-friendly to family-friendly. A number of direct positive comments as well, including from the Costeria who waved instead of boarded. Don't neglect local flags because here, as an example, Sicilians consider themselves more Sicilian than actual Italian. Same for Sardinia, and I'm sure many other regions around the world. Just my 2 cents on flags....


ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@hotmail.com>
 

Peter,

 I'm sure the RYS would call it  " dress overall" ! 

 Ian & Judy, Pen Azen, SM 302 Greece


From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Peter Forbes <ppsforbes@...>
Sent: 19 June 2019 10:00
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Flag etiquette
 
I will get out my copy of the ROYAL YACH SQUADRON instructions on this and send you a photocopy on this and how to ‘dress all over’ - should be able to do that on Friday.

best wishes

Peter

Peter Forbes
0044 7836 209730
Carango  Sailing Ketch
Amel 54 #035
La Rochelle FOR SALE.

On 19 Jun 2019, at 08:30, Davi Rozgonyi <davi.rozgonyi@...> wrote:

I don't know much about where to fly my own flag (it's off the stern on the Amel pole, about an inch per foot of boat as is about right, and in any case I don't care much as it is a convenience country). But I do know that hanging around here in Sicily the last few months, I have seen exactly ZERO visiting boats who bothered to put up the Sicilian flag (same went in Sardinia last month before here). Went looking for one after a week in port, found it, hoisted it right below the Italian courtesy, and watched the attitudes of anybody local change immediately from stranger-friendly to family-friendly. A number of direct positive comments as well, including from the Costeria who waved instead of boarded. Don't neglect local flags because here, as an example, Sicilians consider themselves more Sicilian than actual Italian. Same for Sardinia, and I'm sure many other regions around the world. Just my 2 cents on flags....


Peter Forbes
 

I attach herewith a copy of the rules.

I think it looks as if rule 33 c applies. ILLUSTRATION 4A - the centre illustration.    

Burgee should be at the top of the mast!


So for any Amel ketch it should be on a staff at low level on the rear rail - as allowed for on my Amel 54.

That’s certainly where I carried it round the World.

I hope that helps?

Anyone interested in "Dress Overall”  - rules?  Thank stop Ian for getting those words in the right order!

Peter Forbes
0044 7836 209730
Carango  Sailing Ketch
Amel 54 #035
In La Rochelle - FOR SALE.

On 19 Jun 2019, at 12:28, ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@...> wrote:

Peter,

 I'm sure the RYS would call it  " dress overall" ! 

 Ian & Judy, Pen Azen, SM 302 Greece

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Peter Forbes <ppsforbes@...>
Sent: 19 June 2019 10:00
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Flag etiquette
 
I will get out my copy of the ROYAL YACH SQUADRON instructions on this and send you a photocopy on this and how to ‘dress all over’ - should be able to do that on Friday.

best wishes

Peter

Peter Forbes
0044 7836 209730
Carango  Sailing Ketch
Amel 54 #035
La Rochelle FOR SALE.

On 19 Jun 2019, at 08:30, Davi Rozgonyi <davi.rozgonyi@...> wrote:

I don't know much about where to fly my own flag (it's off the stern on the Amel pole, about an inch per foot of boat as is about right, and in any case I don't care much as it is a convenience country). But I do know that hanging around here in Sicily the last few months, I have seen exactly ZERO visiting boats who bothered to put up the Sicilian flag (same went in Sardinia last month before here). Went looking for one after a week in port, found it, hoisted it right below the Italian courtesy, and watched the attitudes of anybody local change immediately from stranger-friendly to family-friendly. A number of direct positive comments as well, including from the Costeria who waved instead of boarded. Don't neglect local flags because here, as an example, Sicilians consider themselves more Sicilian than actual Italian. Same for Sardinia, and I'm sure many other regions around the world. Just my 2 cents on flags....



Craig Briggs
 

Great point, Davi. In addition to flying a courtesy flag, we always made it a point to pick up an inexpensive country flag on a stick at a local souvenir shop when we entered a new country and have it at the helm. Then whenever a local boat would wave at us upon seeing our US Flag, we'd wave the little flag back - always got a great reception.
Craig SN68 Sangaris


Joerg Esdorn
 

Very helpful, Peter.  So at anchor I must carry the ensign in the standard position for any Amel: at the aft rail.  But while underway, I can carry it either in the same position or, alternatively, at the top of the mizzen mast if the standard position is "impractical".  That's certainly what we always did on my family's ketch many moons ago.  dThat gets it out of the way of the solar panels and out of earshot.  Now if only the US Power Squadron would agree with those rules - mine is a US flagged vessel after all.   :<).   Additional problem is all those antennas at the top of the mizzen mast - I don't want the flag to get into the way of those.  Hence my question whether anyone has done it and what the mechanics look like.  Do you need a very long pigstick?  



Peter Forbes
 

Dear Joerg,

Yes on Carango [Amel 54] I flew the ensign at the stern (but not on open Ocean) only anchored or on coastal sailing. And the Burgee on a huge in my case 1.5 meter pole which took the burgee above all others antennas and the like on top of the main mast. I never put the ensign at the top of the mizzen mast but the rules say you can.

Good luck - not sure what USA yachts do. 

Peter
Peter Forbes
The Old Rectory
Farnham
Blandford
Dorset
DT11 8DE




On 19 Jun 2019, at 15:19, Joerg Esdorn via Groups.Io <jhe1313@...> wrote:

Very helpful, Peter.  So at anchor I must carry the ensign in the standard position for any Amel: at the aft rail.  But while underway, I can carry it either in the same position or, alternatively, at the top of the mizzen mast if the standard position is "impractical".  That's certainly what we always did on my family's ketch many moons ago.  dThat gets it out of the way of the solar panels and out of earshot.  Now if only the US Power Squadron would agree with those rules - mine is a US flagged vessel after all.   :<).   Additional problem is all those antennas at the top of the mizzen mast - I don't want the flag to get into the way of those.  Hence my question whether anyone has done it and what the mechanics look like.  Do you need a very long pigstick?  




Ian Park
 

I belong to the Royal Welsh Yacht Club and fly a blue ensign. It is perfectly fine to fly it from the stern.

It makes life easier to comply with British flag etiquette as I have to take it in at sunset or 9.00 p.m. whichever is earlier. This was introduced by Samual Pepys when he was Secretary for Admiralty and saw how much money was being spent on flags. So he decided that taking them down at night when no-one could see the anyway would immediately half the annual expenditure. And so it became ‘the tradition’.

Yes, the burgee should be flown at the highest point of the boat.

BUT, as so many aerials etc are also up there it has been officially accepted that it should be flown on the starboard crosstrees.

EXCEPT, where you may be required to fly a courtesy flag it should take precedence on the starboard cross trees and your burgee and house flags transferred to the port crosstrees.

And it is illegal in UK to fly the Union Flag. It can only be flown on a Royal Naval Vessel and is called a Union Jack. However, this is flown on the bow of the ship as the White Ensign is always flown at the stern.

We are allowed to fly the Union Flag on the bow of the boat in Harbour, but it must be edged all round in white!

Bet you wished you’d never asked!

Ian and Linda
Ocean Hobo SN96

PS
Yacht Clubs were first given warrants to be ‘Royal’ and fly the blue ensign on the understanding that all members’ boats could be commandeered for use in time of war.

Now not all Royal Yacht Clubs are given warrants, those holding warrants are more ‘Senior’ - and now it gets complicated........