Topics

Deck Stripes - Painting with Awlgrip - Details and Requirements

Gary Silver
 

Hi all:  

I have painted my deck stripes twice before. Both times I used Interlux Brightside single part paint.  It looked good for 3 years then looked marginal for 2 years before requiring repainting due to complete oxidative failure.  In an attempt to get better durability I have just completed (mostly) repainting my deck stripes with Awlgrip two part catalyzed paint.  After thorough research of all the Awlgrip printed technical materials and speaking with their tech representative I still had questions.  I turned for answers to the folks who did my hurricane repairs who paint a lot with Awlgrip.  Here is data:
1.  Awlgrip is better for this application than Awlcraft as it is tougher and will withstand abrasion better.  Awlcraft is easier to repair but not as durable.  Either catalyzed paint will outperform single part paints by a wide margin.
2.  You need to sand to a good solid substrate.  In my case that meant getting to gelcoat.
3.  You need to use an epoxy primer  (in this case Awlgrip 545 primer, D8001 white with D9001 converter mixed 1:1), at least one coat for adhesion. Two coats are recommended but not really practical and 1 coat is acceptable. Induction time after mixing is 15 minutes and Pot Life (working time once catalyzed)  is 4-8 hrs at 75 degrees, but can be extended longer if refrigerated.  It is very thin (almost watery in viscosity).  This thin viscosity required multiple passes with the stripping tool.  I mixed it in 40 ml aliquots and that provided good usability for about 4 hrs of painting in the 90 degree heat. Reducer and cleanup is with lacquer thinner. 
4.  Two topcoat color coats are needed.  I used Awlgrip Horizon Teak Topcoat (just couldn't bring myself to go with the cream colored deck stripes, too much of a traditionalist I guess) and H3002 Awl-cat #3 brushing converter.  I reduced 15% with lacquer thinner (also very thin but slightly more viscous than the primer).  Your overcoat is it at 16 hrs but if more than 24 hrs then you have to scuff sand between coats. Pot life isn't mentioned but didn't prove to be a problem, as reassured to me by my consultants, when mixing in about 40 ml aliquots that I would use within a couple of hours.

Sanding:  13 days working 6 hrs a day (this didn't include the cockpit).  This was a huge job!!!!  I did detailed sanding to get to gelcoat from the two prior paint jobs that I had done.  

Painting:  8 days painting 10 - 12 hrs a day (again excluding the cockpit).  This was psychologically daunting especially following on the heels of the sanding marathon.  For those who have done a one coat paint job you know it takes about 3 days to scuff sand and paint, but to have to do the three minimum required coats was really hard on knees, wrists, back, and spirits.  There was also a lot of timing involved to minimize scuff sanding between coats.  

It looks great, the cockpit will have to wait until our next trip to the boat because we simply ran out of time and failed to complete some other projects due to the huge time investment in this project.

Would I do it again?  I am not sure.  If it stays looking good for 20 years then perhaps,  I'll tell you down the road if the investment paid off.  If one had a crew you could train and trust for this detailed work that would help but there is a high level of punctiliousness needed here and I wasn't sure I could find anyone who would invest the effort to achieve the level of detail that the job demanded.  I'll hire out to do your boat, my price is about $65,000 for the job. ;-)

All the best, 

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona
Amel SM 2000  Hull # 335  (2001)
Puerto Del Rey Marina, Puerto Rico


Thomas Peacock
 

Hi Gary,

You seem to have talked me out of re-doing our deck. We still have original, but it obviously looks quite tired. Huge project, either bricolage, or by hiring someone.

One question: how has the non-slip surface held up with the new paint? 

Thanks,
Tom Peacock
SM #240 Aletes
Chesapeake Bay

On Jun 23, 2019, at 10:54 PM, Gary Silver via Groups.Io <garysilver@...> wrote:

Hi all:  

I have painted my deck stripes twice before. Both times I used Interlux Brightside single part paint.  It looked good for 3 years then looked marginal for 2 years before requiring repainting due to complete oxidative failure.  In an attempt to get better durability I have just completed (mostly) repainting my deck stripes with Awlgrip two part catalyzed paint.  After thorough research of all the Awlgrip printed technical materials and speaking with their tech representative I still had questions.  I turned for answers to the folks who did my hurricane repairs who paint a lot with Awlgrip.  Here is data:
1.  Awlgrip is better for this application than Awlcraft as it is tougher and will withstand abrasion better.  Awlcraft is easier to repair but not as durable.  Either catalyzed paint will outperform single part paints by a wide margin.
2.  You need to sand to a good solid substrate.  In my case that meant getting to gelcoat.
3.  You need to use an epoxy primer  (in this case Awlgrip 545 primer, D8001 white with D9001 converter mixed 1:1), at least one coat for adhesion. Two coats are recommended but not really practical and 1 coat is acceptable. Induction time after mixing is 15 minutes and Pot Life (working time once catalyzed)  is 4-8 hrs at 75 degrees, but can be extended longer if refrigerated.  It is very thin (almost watery in viscosity).  This thin viscosity required multiple passes with the stripping tool.  I mixed it in 40 ml aliquots and that provided good usability for about 4 hrs of painting in the 90 degree heat. Reducer and cleanup is with lacquer thinner. 
4.  Two topcoat color coats are needed.  I used Awlgrip Horizon Teak Topcoat (just couldn't bring myself to go with the cream colored deck stripes, too much of a traditionalist I guess) and H3002 Awl-cat #3 brushing converter.  I reduced 15% with lacquer thinner (also very thin but slightly more viscous than the primer).  Your overcoat is it at 16 hrs but if more than 24 hrs then you have to scuff sand between coats. Pot life isn't mentioned but didn't prove to be a problem, as reassured to me by my consultants, when mixing in about 40 ml aliquots that I would use within a couple of hours.

Sanding:  13 days working 6 hrs a day (this didn't include the cockpit).  This was a huge job!!!!  I did detailed sanding to get to gelcoat from the two prior paint jobs that I had done.  

Painting:  8 days painting 10 - 12 hrs a day (again excluding the cockpit).  This was psychologically daunting especially following on the heels of the sanding marathon.  For those who have done a one coat paint job you know it takes about 3 days to scuff sand and paint, but to have to do the three minimum required coats was really hard on knees, wrists, back, and spirits.  There was also a lot of timing involved to minimize scuff sanding between coats.  

It looks great, the cockpit will have to wait until our next trip to the boat because we simply ran out of time and failed to complete some other projects due to the huge time investment in this project.

Would I do it again?  I am not sure.  If it stays looking good for 20 years then perhaps,  I'll tell you down the road if the investment paid off.  If one had a crew you could train and trust for this detailed work that would help but there is a high level of punctiliousness needed here and I wasn't sure I could find anyone who would invest the effort to achieve the level of detail that the job demanded.  I'll hire out to do your boat, my price is about $65,000 for the job. ;-)

All the best, 

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona
Amel SM 2000  Hull # 335  (2001)
Puerto Del Rey Marina, Puerto Rico



Arlo
 
Edited

Hello Gary, great summary and thanks for sharing. For whats its worth, i painted my deck and pilothouse with awlgrip on my last boat (a hudson force 50) and after 8 years in the blazing Florida sun it still looked brand new. I have been looking at the deck and stripes on my mango and contemplating painting it with awlgrip just not sure how to get the old paint off without sanding and losing the texture of the teak gelcoat...but you should expect the painting you did to last 10 plus years. 

Arlo
S/V Seaduction
Mango # 46

James Alton
 

Gary,
   It sounds like to did an amazing paint job on your boat and I hope that you can get the 20 years.    I have had Awlgrip last that long on my seasonally used boat stored in the North.  I do not know of a more durable paint for Marine use than the Awlgrip.   The Awlgrip does not seem to age noticeably in the absence of UV so you can extend the life if you can shade the boat some.  Unlike the Brightsides, oxidation when it comes will tend to me on the surface so failure will still be a long way down the road.  You can remove the oxidation if you want with a fine polish. 
   I am am wondering if you did anything to improve the non-skid qualities of the final finish?  If not,  are you satisfied with the nonskid qualities of your Awlgripped deck?

Thanks,
James
SV Sueno
Arbatax, Italy


Sent from Samsung tablet.

-------- Original message --------
From: Thomas Peacock <peacock8491@...>
Date: 6/24/19 1:00 PM (GMT+01:00)
To: "main@amelyachtowners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Deck Stripes - Painting with Awlgrip - Details and Requirements

Hi Gary,

You seem to have talked me out of re-doing our deck. We still have original, but it obviously looks quite tired. Huge project, either bricolage, or by hiring someone.

One question: how has the non-slip surface held up with the new paint? 

Thanks,
Tom Peacock
SM #240 Aletes
Chesapeake Bay

On Jun 23, 2019, at 10:54 PM, Gary Silver via Groups.Io <garysilver@...> wrote:

Hi all:  

I have painted my deck stripes twice before. Both times I used Interlux Brightside single part paint.  It looked good for 3 years then looked marginal for 2 years before requiring repainting due to complete oxidative failure.  In an attempt to get better durability I have just completed (mostly) repainting my deck stripes with Awlgrip two part catalyzed paint.  After thorough research of all the Awlgrip printed technical materials and speaking with their tech representative I still had questions.  I turned for answers to the folks who did my hurricane repairs who paint a lot with Awlgrip.  Here is data:
1.  Awlgrip is better for this application than Awlcraft as it is tougher and will withstand abrasion better.  Awlcraft is easier to repair but not as durable.  Either catalyzed paint will outperform single part paints by a wide margin.
2.  You need to sand to a good solid substrate.  In my case that meant getting to gelcoat.
3.  You need to use an epoxy primer  (in this case Awlgrip 545 primer, D8001 white with D9001 converter mixed 1:1), at least one coat for adhesion. Two coats are recommended but not really practical and 1 coat is acceptable. Induction time after mixing is 15 minutes and Pot Life (working time once catalyzed)  is 4-8 hrs at 75 degrees, but can be extended longer if refrigerated.  It is very thin (almost watery in viscosity).  This thin viscosity required multiple passes with the stripping tool.  I mixed it in 40 ml aliquots and that provided good usability for about 4 hrs of painting in the 90 degree heat. Reducer and cleanup is with lacquer thinner. 
4.  Two topcoat color coats are needed.  I used Awlgrip Horizon Teak Topcoat (just couldn't bring myself to go with the cream colored deck stripes, too much of a traditionalist I guess) and H3002 Awl-cat #3 brushing converter.  I reduced 15% with lacquer thinner (also very thin but slightly more viscous than the primer).  Your overcoat is it at 16 hrs but if more than 24 hrs then you have to scuff sand between coats. Pot life isn't mentioned but didn't prove to be a problem, as reassured to me by my consultants, when mixing in about 40 ml aliquots that I would use within a couple of hours.

Sanding:  13 days working 6 hrs a day (this didn't include the cockpit).  This was a huge job!!!!  I did detailed sanding to get to gelcoat from the two prior paint jobs that I had done.  

Painting:  8 days painting 10 - 12 hrs a day (again excluding the cockpit).  This was psychologically daunting especially following on the heels of the sanding marathon.  For those who have done a one coat paint job you know it takes about 3 days to scuff sand and paint, but to have to do the three minimum required coats was really hard on knees, wrists, back, and spirits.  There was also a lot of timing involved to minimize scuff sanding between coats.  

It looks great, the cockpit will have to wait until our next trip to the boat because we simply ran out of time and failed to complete some other projects due to the huge time investment in this project.

Would I do it again?  I am not sure.  If it stays looking good for 20 years then perhaps,  I'll tell you down the road if the investment paid off.  If one had a crew you could train and trust for this detailed work that would help but there is a high level of punctiliousness needed here and I wasn't sure I could find anyone who would invest the effort to achieve the level of detail that the job demanded.  I'll hire out to do your boat, my price is about $65,000 for the job. ;-)

All the best, 

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona
Amel SM 2000  Hull # 335  (2001)
Puerto Del Rey Marina, Puerto Rico



Mark Erdos
 

Gary,

 

Thanks for this. The deck repainting is a project I have been putting off since first taking ownership of Cream Puff. What and how much did you use to dull the paint to a matte finish?

 

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gary Silver via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2019 10:54 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Deck Stripes - Painting with Awlgrip - Details and Requirements

 

Hi all:  

I have painted my deck stripes twice before. Both times I used Interlux Brightside single part paint.  It looked good for 3 years then looked marginal for 2 years before requiring repainting due to complete oxidative failure.  In an attempt to get better durability I have just completed (mostly) repainting my deck stripes with Awlgrip two part catalyzed paint.  After thorough research of all the Awlgrip printed technical materials and speaking with their tech representative I still had questions.  I turned for answers to the folks who did my hurricane repairs who paint a lot with Awlgrip.  Here is data:
1.  Awlgrip is better for this application than Awlcraft as it is tougher and will withstand abrasion better.  Awlcraft is easier to repair but not as durable.  Either catalyzed paint will outperform single part paints by a wide margin.
2.  You need to sand to a good solid substrate.  In my case that meant getting to gelcoat.
3.  You need to use an epoxy primer  (in this case Awlgrip 545 primer, D8001 white with D9001 converter mixed 1:1), at least one coat for adhesion. Two coats are recommended but not really practical and 1 coat is acceptable. Induction time after mixing is 15 minutes and Pot Life (working time once catalyzed)  is 4-8 hrs at 75 degrees, but can be extended longer if refrigerated.  It is very thin (almost watery in viscosity).  This thin viscosity required multiple passes with the stripping tool.  I mixed it in 40 ml aliquots and that provided good usability for about 4 hrs of painting in the 90 degree heat. Reducer and cleanup is with lacquer thinner. 
4.  Two topcoat color coats are needed.  I used Awlgrip Horizon Teak Topcoat (just couldn't bring myself to go with the cream colored deck stripes, too much of a traditionalist I guess) and H3002 Awl-cat #3 brushing converter.  I reduced 15% with lacquer thinner (also very thin but slightly more viscous than the primer).  Your overcoat is it at 16 hrs but if more than 24 hrs then you have to scuff sand between coats. Pot life isn't mentioned but didn't prove to be a problem, as reassured to me by my consultants, when mixing in about 40 ml aliquots that I would use within a couple of hours.

Sanding:  13 days working 6 hrs a day (this didn't include the cockpit).  This was a huge job!!!!  I did detailed sanding to get to gelcoat from the two prior paint jobs that I had done.  

Painting:  8 days painting 10 - 12 hrs a day (again excluding the cockpit).  This was psychologically daunting especially following on the heels of the sanding marathon.  For those who have done a one coat paint job you know it takes about 3 days to scuff sand and paint, but to have to do the three minimum required coats was really hard on knees, wrists, back, and spirits.  There was also a lot of timing involved to minimize scuff sanding between coats.  

It looks great, the cockpit will have to wait until our next trip to the boat because we simply ran out of time and failed to complete some other projects due to the huge time investment in this project.

Would I do it again?  I am not sure.  If it stays looking good for 20 years then perhaps,  I'll tell you down the road if the investment paid off.  If one had a crew you could train and trust for this detailed work that would help but there is a high level of punctiliousness needed here and I wasn't sure I could find anyone who would invest the effort to achieve the level of detail that the job demanded.  I'll hire out to do your boat, my price is about $65,000 for the job. ;-)

All the best, 

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona
Amel SM 2000  Hull # 335  (2001)
Puerto Del Rey Marina, Puerto Rico

Gary Wells
 

Gary,

I will start holding back a little out of each paycheck ..  By the time I can afford you, the price will likely go up :)

I think we are due in a couple more years so I am going to save this beautiful description and meditate over it until then.

I have the striping tool in my "for later" shopping cart on Amazon.  :)  Now I just have to wait to get up the resolve to start this one .. I think I may be building that up for many months!

 

Congrats, can't wait ti see some pictures of the process and the results.

Gary W.

SM 209, Adagio

Maryland, USA

Gary Silver
 

"What and how much did you use to dull the paint to a matte finish?"

I just painted the deck stripes, not the entire faux teak.  The original was a gel coat gloss finish brown (I bought the boat new so I know) and the new deck stripping is high gloss (probably higher gloss than the original gel coat.  I suppose I could have added a flattener but chose not to do so.

Gary Silver
s/v Liahona
Amel SM 2000 # 335
Puerto Rico

Gary Silver
 
Edited

On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 05:00 AM, Thomas Peacock wrote:
One question: how has the non-slip surface held up with the new paint?
Hi Thomas.  The original light brown colored faux teak, while somewhat oxidized, is in good shape everywhere except the stern lazarette cover (the garage lid).  That was evidently made by the apprentices at Amel and the gel coat there was brushed on rather than sprayed into the mold.  This left a very non-uniform thickness of the gel coat and patches of brush mark pattern wore thru years ago.  Still dithering about how to deal with that issue.  Joel has indicated (thru the grapevine third hand) that the gel coat on that hatch is always the first too fail. 

Gary Silver
s/v Liahona
Amel SM 2000 #335
Puerto Del Rey, Puerto Rico

Gary Silver
 
Edited

Addendum:  

The quantity of paint required was about 1/2 quart of the topcoat color and 1/3 quart of the primer with appropriate amounts of catalyst for both. A one quart can of the topcoat was $99 US.  Still waiting for the bill for primer and the catalysts but I am guessing about $400 in supplies.

Gary Silver
s/v Liahona
Amel SM 2000 # 335
Puerto Rico

Denise McGovern
 

I would love to see a photo.  I am about to start this task on Cara.

Denise McGovern
s/v CARA    SM #440
Deale, MD

Patrick McAneny
 

Gary, I too have white areas on the aft lid showing thru and a few other places as well. Its been bothering me for years. The stripes are almost nonexistent ,and I don't mine the uniform color of the deck. I believe it looks better with the lines,but looks pretty good without them also, thus I have been thinking about repainting the entire deck one color ,slightly lighter to reduce the temp. Once the edges were  taped out ,it would only take a couple of hours to roll n tip the entire deck with awlgrip . I roll n tipped my topsides 12 years ago and it only took me and a friend two hrs. per coat and you could not tell that it was not sprayed on. This winter I am having the boat repainted , sprayed this time ,to repair damage to the paint job ,that result from an improperly anchored 47 ft. cat that drug down on us in Guadeloupe at 4 am in 25 kts., sounded like a stick of dynamite went off in the boat. Beware of charter cats ! Lots of windage and they rent them to anyone with a credit card. Hardly ever see them anchor properly,I better not get started on that ,forgive the venting.
Pat
SM Shenanigans

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Silver via Groups.Io <garysilver@...>
To: main <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Sent: Mon, Jun 24, 2019 1:09 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Deck Stripes - Painting with Awlgrip - Details and Requirements

On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 05:00 AM, Thomas Peacock wrote:
One question: how has the non-slip surface held up with the new paint?
Hi Thomas.  The original light brown colored faux teak, while somewhat oxidized, is in good shape everywhere except the stern lazarette cover (the garage lid).  That was evidently made by the apprentices at Amel and the gel coat there was brushed on rather than sprayed into the mold.  This left a very non-uniform thickness of the gel coat and patches of brush mark pattern wore thru years ago.  Still dithering about how to deal with that issue.  Joel has indicated (thru the grapevine third hadn't) that the gel coat on that hatch is always the first too fail. 

Gary Silver
s/v Liahona
Amel SM 2000 #335
Puerto Del Rey, Puerto Rico

Thomas Kleman
 

I'm also saving Gary's process for a later date. Nine years ago I did the lines with a single part polyurethane paint (black) and have protected the deck and lines with Polytrol about once a year. No oxidation and lines are still intact. The deck color looks good too but I also have the mysterious back lazarette brush marks. Now I know why. 

Gary Silver
 

Hi Thomas, I will be more diligent about using Polytrol after hearing of your experience.  The aft lazarette brush marks isn't gospel, just what I have heard.  The reason I haven't used Polytrol more is that I felt it reduced the anti-skid effect of the faux teak.  What are you're thoughts.

Gary 
s/v Liahona
Amel SM 2000 # 335
Puerto Del Rey, Puerto Rico

Gary Silver
 

Hi Denise:   Photos to follow.  Preparing to haul out tomorrow morning early so you know how overwhelming it seems in that state. I promise to post some photos. 

Gary
s/v Liahona
Amel SM 2000  # 335
Puerto Rico

Thomas Kleman
 

Gary- just my experience but Polytrol doesn't seem to effect anti skid properties. It looks like it should (the deck color pops and it appears wet). Only thing to be careful of with Polytrol is the buildup in the faux line grooves. You need to brush it out well and use thin coats.

Your post brought back some memories for me, painting the lines in 90 degree heat and doing the math for how long a line would it be if it was end to end. I came up with 2/10 of a mile but there's my Poetry/Sanskrit double major plaguing me again.

Thomas Kleman
 

On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 07:49 AM, Thomas Kleman wrote:
Gary- just my experience but Polytrol doesn't seem to effect anti skid properties. It looks like it should (the deck color pops and it appears wet). Only thing to be careful of with Polytrol is the buildup in the faux line grooves. You need to brush it out well and use thin coats.

Your post brought back some memories for me, painting the lines in 90 degree heat and doing the math for how long a line would it be if it was end to end. I came up with 2/10 of a mile but there's my Poetry/Sanskrit double major plaguing me again.
This is L'ORIENT sm2k 422 with Polytrol treatment of decks and black stripes (prob 5 yrs old in this pic).


 

Giovanni TESTA
 

Hi Thomas,
may I know please which AWLGRIP RAL/code/color and if mono or bi component ?
Your deck after 5 yrs is like new, congratulations !
Many thanks
Giovanni TESTA
sv EUTIKIA
SM2K n 428
https://www.youtube.com/user/eutikia1


Il 27/06/2019 16:52, Thomas Kleman ha scritto:
On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 07:49 AM, Thomas Kleman wrote:
Gary- just my experience but Polytrol doesn't seem to effect anti skid properties. It looks like it should (the deck color pops and it appears wet). Only thing to be careful of with Polytrol is the buildup in the faux line grooves. You need to brush it out well and use thin coats.

Your post brought back some memories for me, painting the lines in 90 degree heat and doing the math for how long a line would it be if it was end to end. I came up with 2/10 of a mile but there's my Poetry/Sanskrit double major plaguing me again.
This is L'ORIENT sm2k 422 with Polytrol treatment of decks and black stripes (prob 5 yrs old in this pic).