Topics

Sterilize the watermaker


Duane Siegfri
 

I have the Duo60 watermaker, and we're getting ready to leave the boat for 3 months in Grenada.  I planned on sterililzing the watermaker with Sodium Metabisulfite (SM).  I also have the sterilizing cartridge.

The problem is I don't know how much of the SM to put in the cartridge.  The Dessalator instructions say to put the whole package in, but the SM I have is from a bulk supplier, so this is not a Dessalator package.

The instructions on the package of SM I have says to use 2 oz per gallon of water to sanitize.  The Dessalator instructions (for the bucket method) says to combine the package of SM with 8 litres of water (about 2 gallons).  So if it's only a math problem there should be about 4 oz of SM in the package...which means I should put 4 oz in the sterililzing cartridge.  

Does this sound correct to those of you who have done this deed?

Thanks for the help!
Duane
Wanderer, SM#477


Alan Leslie
 

Hi Duane,
That sounds about right, we use 100g give or take a bit and it always seems to work OK.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse Sm437


Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown
 

Duane,

 

I use 30ml Sodium Metabisulphite in 7.2l water (1 bucket).

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Duane Siegfri via Groups.Io
Sent: 07 July 2019 14:35
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Sterilize the watermaker

 

I have the Duo60 watermaker, and we're getting ready to leave the boat for 3 months in Grenada.  I planned on sterililzing the watermaker with Sodium Metabisulfite (SM).  I also have the sterilizing cartridge.

The problem is I don't know how much of the SM to put in the cartridge.  The Dessalator instructions say to put the whole package in, but the SM I have is from a bulk supplier, so this is not a Dessalator package.

The instructions on the package of SM I have says to use 2 oz per gallon of water to sanitize.  The Dessalator instructions (for the bucket method) says to combine the package of SM with 8 litres of water (about 2 gallons).  So if it's only a math problem there should be about 4 oz of SM in the package...which means I should put 4 oz in the sterililzing cartridge.  

Does this sound correct to those of you who have done this deed?

Thanks for the help!
Duane
Wanderer, SM#477


--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98


Arno Luijten
 

Hi,

A package (dose) is 100 gram. You did wise buying the stuff in bulk. Desallator charges about 5 times more for the same quantity.

Regards,

Arno
SV Luna,
A54-121


karkauai
 

Others have posted a belief that treating the membranes can damage the metal parts. Is it Sodium Metabisulfite that is the culprit? Because of these postings, I have had someone check on Kristy once or twice a week and flush the membranes when I am gone. I believe it was Danny who put a timer on his that automatically flushed the membranes when he’s away. I’ll do that at some point...great idea.

Kent & Iris
S/V Kristy
SM 243

On Jul 8, 2019, at 7:51 AM, Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

A package (dose) is 100 gram. You did wise buying the stuff in bulk. Desallator charges about 5 times more for the same quantity.

Regards,

Arno
SV Luna,
A54-121


Gary Silver
 

Hi all:

In my early years of ownership of Liahona (Amel SM #335, purchased new July 2001), I would faithfully pickle the membranes with Sodium Metabisulfite (SMB).  Since I was working back then I would often have the membranes pickled for 6 months at a time.  Within a few years I had the bobbin that interconnects the two membranes and the shaft of the low pressure feed pump fail from corrosion.  I discovered that SMB is a acid when mixed with water, see  https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Sodium-metabisulfite . After that I developed my own automatic timer to flush my membranes with product water when the boat is un-attended (pictured here https://amelyachtowners.groups.io/g/main/photo/84483/27?p=Name,,timer,20,1,0,0 ).  I used a 24 volt fish feeding timer wired to a 24 volt relay and tied into the pressurized water system wiring of Liahona.  When I leave the boat, I set the timer to run for 2 minutes every other day, actuate the flush valve at the low pressure pump, and as the pressurized water pump starts to run in it's automatic mode I switch the timer on, thereupon the relay goes to it non-actualized state (open) and the pressure pump power is cut. When the timer commands it, the relay closes and supplies power to the pressurized water pump to flush the membranes for the two minutes.  I measured the amount of water used and in two minutes with the flush valve set to flush, about 4 liters of water goes thru the membranes.  My membranes have been in tip top condition every since, I haven't had to fiddle with pickling solution and I have never replaced another component for corrosion. This along with the continuous salinity measuring system with 110 decibel alert and manual "save vs discard" function have been the best modifications I have made to the Dessalator 160l/min water maker aboard Liahona.  It is a shame Dessalator didn't include these features as standard equipment.  I think I paid $20 US for the timer, $10, for the relay, and a couple of hours time to fabricate and install.  The continuous salinity measurement system was a couple of hundred $US.  I have promised for some time to draw up schematics and parts lists for these projects and now, having retired, perhaps I will do that in the next few days.  Will announce when I post them. 

In the meantime, I recommend you have your boat caretaker manually flush your membranes with product water (water from your Amel tanks) at least once a week and avoid the pickling process.

Sincerely, 

Gary S. Silver, M.D.
s/v Liahona   
Amel SM 2000 # 335
Puerto Del Rey Marina - On the hard for the hurricane season


karkauai
 

Hi Gary, thanks for setting the record straight that it was you, not Danny who first installed the membrane flush timer.  My mistake.

Congrats on your retirement!

Kent
S/V Kristy
SM243


On Jul 8, 2019, at 2:38 PM, Gary Silver via Groups.Io <garysilver@...> wrote:

Hi all:

In my early years of ownership of Liahona (Amel SM #335, purchased new July 2001), I would faithfully pickle the membranes with Sodium Metabisulfite (SMB).  Since I was working back then I would often have the membranes pickled for 6 months at a time.  Within a few years I had the bobbin that interconnects the two membranes and the shaft of the low pressure feed pump fail from corrosion.  I discovered that SMB is a acid when mixed with water, see  https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Sodium-metabisulfite . After that I developed my own automatic timer to flush my membranes with product water when the boat is un-attended (pictured here https://amelyachtowners.groups.io/g/main/photo/84483/27?p=Name,,timer,20,1,0,0 ).  I used a 24 volt fish feeding timer wired to a 24 volt relay and tied into the pressurized water system wiring of Liahona.  When I leave the boat, I set the timer to run for 2 minutes every other day, actuate the flush valve at the low pressure pump, and as the pressurized water pump starts to run in it's automatic mode I switch the timer on, thereupon the relay goes to it non-actualized state (open) and the pressure pump power is cut. When the timer commands it, the relay closes and supplies power to the pressurized water pump to flush the membranes for the two minutes.  I measured the amount of water used and in two minutes with the flush valve set to flush, about 4 liters of water goes thru the membranes.  My membranes have been in tip top condition every since, I haven't had to fiddle with pickling solution and I have never replaced another component for corrosion. This along with the continuous salinity measuring system with 110 decibel alert and manual "save vs discard" function have been the best modifications I have made to the Dessalator 160l/min water maker aboard Liahona.  It is a shame Dessalator didn't include these features as standard equipment.  I think I paid $20 US for the timer, $10, for the relay, and a couple of hours time to fabricate and install.  The continuous salinity measurement system was a couple of hundred $US.  I have promised for some time to draw up schematics and parts lists for these projects and now, having retired, perhaps I will do that in the next few days.  Will announce when I post them. 

In the meantime, I recommend you have your boat caretaker manually flush your membranes with product water (water from your Amel tanks) at least once a week and avoid the pickling process.

Sincerely, 

Gary S. Silver, M.D.
s/v Liahona   
Amel SM 2000 # 335
Puerto Del Rey Marina - On the hard for the hurricane season


Willem Kroes
 

In november 2017 I spoke with two Dessalator representatives on the MET's in Amsterdam. I asked them about to sterilize the membranes of my DUO 60. The answer was quite simple: It is not necessary to do that. Just after a long time of not use, turn the system on without pressure for about 40 minutes and the slowly increase pressure during 10 minutes not further than the first quarter of the meter. After that, increase pressure until the system comes to produce. I used this method now for two season starts and it works great. Chemicals in the end will destroy the system and will shorten the lifespan of the membranes, they told me. 

I spoke to:

Vincent Koster, Systems engineer: vincent@... and
Martin de Jong, Director - manager (DENIA, Spain and France): spain@...



Mark McGovern
 

On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 02:38 PM, Gary Silver wrote:
continuous salinity measurement system
Gary,

I for one would love to see the schematics and parts list that you used to modify your system!  
 
--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


Mark McGovern
 

Just to add to the knowledgebase on a related watermaker topic, when I asked Dessalator's USA rep Mark Fruehauf at Balcen (info@...) about how best to winterize my watermaker I got this reply:

"For winterizing I recommend doing a fresh water flush and then filling the High Pressure pump and membrane pressure vessels with non toxic water system antifreeze.  The easiest way to do this is to use a utility pump to pump the solution into the inlet of the high pressure pump.  It is also very important to make sure to blow out all fresh water from the product water lines and  flow meters"

--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Vincent et al,

I too have not used chemicals in 10 years and get good life from the membranes. Just a back flush with product water from the tank with the presure released after each use. 

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 09 July 2019 at 23:28 Willem Kroes <kavanga@...> wrote:

In november 2017 I spoke with two Dessalator representatives on the MET's in Amsterdam. I asked them about to sterilize the membranes of my DUO 60. The answer was quite simple: It is not necessary to do that. Just after a long time of not use, turn the system on without pressure for about 40 minutes and the slowly increase pressure during 10 minutes not further than the first quarter of the meter. After that, increase pressure until the system comes to produce. I used this method now for two season starts and it works great. Chemicals in the end will destroy the system and will shorten the lifespan of the membranes, they told me. 

I spoke to:

Vincent Koster, Systems engineer: vincent@... and
Martin de Jong, Director - manager (DENIA, Spain and France): spain@...



Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Oops Sorry my previous should have been addressed to Willem

Danny

On 09 July 2019 at 23:28 Willem Kroes <kavanga@...> wrote:

In november 2017 I spoke with two Dessalator representatives on the MET's in Amsterdam. I asked them about to sterilize the membranes of my DUO 60. The answer was quite simple: It is not necessary to do that. Just after a long time of not use, turn the system on without pressure for about 40 minutes and the slowly increase pressure during 10 minutes not further than the first quarter of the meter. After that, increase pressure until the system comes to produce. I used this method now for two season starts and it works great. Chemicals in the end will destroy the system and will shorten the lifespan of the membranes, they told me. 

I spoke to:

Vincent Koster, Systems engineer: vincent@... and
Martin de Jong, Director - manager (DENIA, Spain and France): spain@...



Duane Siegfri
 

Many thanks to everyone for their thoughts.

Duane
Wanderer, SM#477


Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown
 

I was curious about this and emailed Desallator to confirm, and this is the reply I got from Martin de Jong:

 

Good morning Paul,

No this is not the proper way of doing it, this is a good possibility of ruining your membranes. The proper way is using the sterilizing cartridge and use it as it's supposed to.

Now if for one reason or another somebody did not do the sterilizing before leaving the boat then there is always the possibility flushing it without running it for 15 minutes and just do to normal startup after replacing the pre-filter of course.

 

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Willem Kroes
Sent: 09 July 2019 13:29
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Sterilize the watermaker

 

In november 2017 I spoke with two Dessalator representatives on the MET's in Amsterdam. I asked them about to sterilize the membranes of my DUO 60. The answer was quite simple: It is not necessary to do that. Just after a long time of not use, turn the system on without pressure for about 40 minutes and the slowly increase pressure during 10 minutes not further than the first quarter of the meter. After that, increase pressure until the system comes to produce. I used this method now for two season starts and it works great. Chemicals in the end will destroy the system and will shorten the lifespan of the membranes, they told me. 

I spoke to:

Vincent Koster, Systems engineer: vincent@... and
Martin de Jong, Director - manager (DENIA, Spain and France): spain@...


--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98