Topics

Storm tactics

Mike Ondra
 

During our recent passage from Boston to the Chesapeake Bay we experienced two severe thunderstorms. In one winds reached 40 kn sustained with gusts to 55 kn for about 10 minutes at the severest. Fortunately the storms were relatively short duration and the seas were confused not having had a chance to organize and build significantly. Our tactic was to motor into the wind with bare poles. At 40+ knots even at full throttle we could barely maintain rudder control as we made way at around 2+/- knots: The wind would push the bow 20 to 30° off course before recovery under autopilot. We did not try hand steering as the auto pilot was doing an OK job in general. It’s seems that in any greater amount of wind or with a more significantly organized sea this tactic would have put us broadside to the wind and waves and then who knows what?
Drouges and see anchors make a lot of sense for longer duration storms. Thoughts on storm tactics for short duration events such as this?
Mike Ondra
Aletes SM 240
Rock Hall, MD

karkauai
 

Hi Mike,

We got caught in a slow moving front last spring with 35-40kts with gusts over 45 from the N (where we wanted to go). We didn’t want to run S with the storm and lose a lot of ground, and tacking into 8-12 ft seas didn’t seem like much fun (and probably wouldn’t have gotten us very far N). We hove to for almost 48 hours with a small handkerchief of jib and about 1/2 of the mizzen, drifting directly downwind. The slick we created to windward calmed any breakers (only one small breaker slapped the boat in all that time), the motion was benign, and we lost only 50 miles in two days.

In thunderstorms with high winds, I reduce sail as the storm approaches, and if there is room, I keep the wind on the aft quarter until it abates. It often changes direction continuously as the storm passes, it can take an hour or more until the prevailing winds return.

Kent
SM 243
Kristy

On Jul 23, 2019, at 10:28 PM, Mike Ondra via Groups.Io <mdondra=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

During our recent passage from Boston to the Chesapeake Bay we experienced two severe thunderstorms. In one winds reached 40 kn sustained with gusts to 55 kn for about 10 minutes at the severest. Fortunately the storms were relatively short duration and the seas were confused not having had a chance to organize and build significantly. Our tactic was to motor into the wind with bare poles. At 40+ knots even at full throttle we could barely maintain rudder control as we made way at around 2+/- knots: The wind would push the bow 20 to 30° off course before recovery under autopilot. We did not try hand steering as the auto pilot was doing an OK job in general. It’s seems that in any greater amount of wind or with a more significantly organized sea this tactic would have put us broadside to the wind and waves and then who knows what?
Drouges and see anchors make a lot of sense for longer duration storms. Thoughts on storm tactics for short duration events such as this?
Mike Ondra
Aletes SM 240
Rock Hall, MD

eric freedman
 

I don't leave home without the Ace Sailmakers Jordan series drogue.

We were in a Hurricane for 36 hours.
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

http://www.oceannavigator.com/March-April-2011/Prepare-for-survival-conditions/

-----Original Message-----
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mike Ondra via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2019 10:29 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Storm tactics

During our recent passage from Boston to the Chesapeake Bay we experienced two severe thunderstorms. In one winds reached 40 kn sustained with gusts to 55 kn for about 10 minutes at the severest. Fortunately the storms were relatively short duration and the seas were confused not having had a chance to organize and build significantly. Our tactic was to motor into the wind with bare poles. At 40+ knots even at full throttle we could barely maintain rudder control as we made way at around 2+/- knots: The wind would push the bow 20 to 30° off course before recovery under autopilot. We did not try hand steering as the auto pilot was doing an OK job in general. It’s seems that in any greater amount of wind or with a more significantly organized sea this tactic would have put us broadside to the wind and waves and then who knows what?
Drouges and see anchors make a lot of sense for longer duration storms. Thoughts on storm tactics for short duration events such as this?
Mike Ondra
Aletes SM 240
Rock Hall, MD

ngtnewington Newington
 

Mike,
Heave to under small amount of mizzen or main and scrap of jib backwinded. Lash helm such that the boat sits at about 50 degrees from the wind. She should for-reach at about 2-5 knots.
Then have a cup of tea, relax and assess. You will be amazed at how comfy this is. You should practice the tactic in 25 kn.
I have used this tactic in many situations on various boats. On one occasion for 48 hours on passage to New Zealand from Tonga in 1991.
I also use it when I want to slow down for a day light entry and sometimes if it is rough to just make a good meal and take it easy.

In general I believe one should always keep sailing until the wind really gets out of hand. That is until you can no longer heave to, I mean that the boat can not set any sail at all. At which point there are various options:
1. Running with it under bare poles. This works but you need sea room and if it is in generally the right direction makes sense. If not then:
a. Jordan series rogue
b. Lie with no sails and leave the boat to it. This is pretty horrible and can be dangerous in big seas but for example after the Fastnet race of 1979 there were many abandoned boats floating undamaged when the storm passed.
Nick
Amelia AML 54-019 in Preveza Greece.

On 24 Jul 2019, at 05:28, Mike Ondra via Groups.Io <mdondra=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

During our recent passage from Boston to the Chesapeake Bay we experienced two severe thunderstorms. In one winds reached 40 kn sustained with gusts to 55 kn for about 10 minutes at the severest. Fortunately the storms were relatively short duration and the seas were confused not having had a chance to organize and build significantly. Our tactic was to motor into the wind with bare poles. At 40+ knots even at full throttle we could barely maintain rudder control as we made way at around 2+/- knots: The wind would push the bow 20 to 30° off course before recovery under autopilot. We did not try hand steering as the auto pilot was doing an OK job in general. It’s seems that in any greater amount of wind or with a more significantly organized sea this tactic would have put us broadside to the wind and waves and then who knows what?
Drouges and see anchors make a lot of sense for longer duration storms. Thoughts on storm tactics for short duration events such as this?
Mike Ondra
Aletes SM 240
Rock Hall, MD




James Alton
 

Mike,

    One thing that might be helpful is to know that if the wind is too strong to motor directly upwind that you can still make progress to windward without stressing your engine.  You can do this without using any sails by tacking or if you cannot easily bring the bow through the wind by jibing your way to windward.  Set your engine to a comfortable power level and then find an angle to the wind where your boat speed is high enough for the keel to effeciently generate lift and you will have almost no leeway.  I once had to use this technique in winds of 50 plus knots on a non Amel boat I owned previously to gain distance to windward to enter an inlet during a crazy strong Northeaster.  There was not nearly enough power available to bring the bow through but jibing was easy and despite some big seas we gained the distance to windward that we needed to safely enter the inlet.

Best,
James
SV Sueno
Mara u #220



Sent from Samsung tablet.

-------- Original message --------
From: "ngtnewington Newington via Groups.Io" <ngtnewington@...>
Date: 7/24/19 7:14 AM (GMT+01:00)
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Storm tactics

Mike,
Heave to under small amount of mizzen or main and scrap of jib backwinded. Lash helm such that the boat sits at about 50 degrees from the wind. She should for-reach at about 2-5 knots.
Then have a cup of tea, relax and assess. You will be amazed at how comfy this is. You should practice the tactic in 25 kn.
I have used this tactic in many situations on various boats. On one occasion for 48 hours on passage to New Zealand from Tonga in 1991.
I also use it when I want to slow down for a day light entry and sometimes if it is rough to just make a good meal and take it easy.

In general I believe one should always keep sailing until the wind really gets out of hand. That is until you can no longer heave to, I mean that the boat can not set any sail at all. At which point there are various options:
1. Running with it under bare poles. This works but you need sea room and if it is in generally the right direction makes sense. If not then:
a. Jordan series rogue
b. Lie with no sails and leave the boat to it. This is pretty horrible and can be dangerous in big seas but for example after the Fastnet race of 1979 there were many abandoned boats floating undamaged when the storm passed.
Nick
Amelia AML 54-019 in Preveza Greece.
> On 24 Jul 2019, at 05:28, Mike Ondra via Groups.Io <mdondra@...> wrote:
>
> During our recent passage from Boston to the Chesapeake Bay we experienced two severe thunderstorms. In one winds reached 40 kn sustained with gusts to 55 kn for about 10 minutes at the severest. Fortunately the storms were relatively short duration and the seas were confused  not having had a chance to organize and build significantly. Our tactic was to motor into the wind with bare poles. At 40+ knots even at full throttle we could barely maintain rudder control as we made way at around 2+/- knots: The wind would push the bow 20 to 30° off course before recovery under autopilot. We did not try hand steering as the auto pilot was doing an OK job in general. It’s seems that in any greater amount of wind or with a more significantly organized sea this tactic would have put us broadside to the wind and waves and then who knows what?
> Drouges and see anchors make a lot of sense for longer duration storms.  Thoughts on storm tactics for short duration events such as this?
> Mike Ondra
> Aletes SM 240
> Rock Hall, MD
>
>
>
>
>




Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Kent,
I agree with you. Done the same myself, both the reduction in sail as a windy thunderstorm approaches and the heaving to, although not for 48 hours. However 8 to 12 ft seas is one thing, oceanic monsters is another altogether and would need evaluation as to tactic. The ability to furl and unfurl sail rapidly is one of the many beauties of the Amel
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl

On 24 July 2019 at 14:59 "karkauai via Groups.Io" <karkauai=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:


Hi Mike,

We got caught in a slow moving front last spring with 35-40kts with gusts over 45 from the N (where we wanted to go). We didn’t want to run S with the storm and lose a lot of ground, and tacking into 8-12 ft seas didn’t seem like much fun (and probably wouldn’t have gotten us very far N). We hove to for almost 48 hours with a small handkerchief of jib and about 1/2 of the mizzen, drifting directly downwind. The slick we created to windward calmed any breakers (only one small breaker slapped the boat in all that time), the motion was benign, and we lost only 50 miles in two days.

In thunderstorms with high winds, I reduce sail as the storm approaches, and if there is room, I keep the wind on the aft quarter until it abates. It often changes direction continuously as the storm passes, it can take an hour or more until the prevailing winds return.

Kent
SM 243
Kristy


On Jul 23, 2019, at 10:28 PM, Mike Ondra via Groups.Io <mdondra=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

During our recent passage from Boston to the Chesapeake Bay we experienced two severe thunderstorms. In one winds reached 40 kn sustained with gusts to 55 kn for about 10 minutes at the severest. Fortunately the storms were relatively short duration and the seas were confused not having had a chance to organize and build significantly. Our tactic was to motor into the wind with bare poles. At 40+ knots even at full throttle we could barely maintain rudder control as we made way at around 2+/- knots: The wind would push the bow 20 to 30° off course before recovery under autopilot. We did not try hand steering as the auto pilot was doing an OK job in general. It’s seems that in any greater amount of wind or with a more significantly organized sea this tactic would have put us broadside to the wind and waves and then who knows what?
Drouges and see anchors make a lot of sense for longer duration storms. Thoughts on storm tactics for short duration events such as this?
Mike Ondra
Aletes SM 240
Rock Hall, MD








karkauai
 

Hi Danny,
I carry a Jordan Drogue for a huge sea and 60+kts. Hope I never have to use it. If on a lee shore, I guess would have to try tacking under engine and ATN GaleSail. We’re going to deploy the drogue and gale sail this fall and make sure we know how to use them and what they’ll do.

Does anybody know of a really good storm tactics hands-on class?

Kent
S/V Kristy
SM 243

On Jul 24, 2019, at 2:50 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:

Hi Kent,
I agree with you. Done the same myself, both the reduction in sail as a windy thunderstorm approaches and the heaving to, although not for 48 hours. However 8 to 12 ft seas is one thing, oceanic monsters is another altogether and would need evaluation as to tactic. The ability to furl and unfurl sail rapidly is one of the many beauties of the Amel
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
On 24 July 2019 at 14:59 "karkauai via Groups.Io" <karkauai=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:


Hi Mike,

We got caught in a slow moving front last spring with 35-40kts with gusts over 45 from the N (where we wanted to go). We didn’t want to run S with the storm and lose a lot of ground, and tacking into 8-12 ft seas didn’t seem like much fun (and probably wouldn’t have gotten us very far N). We hove to for almost 48 hours with a small handkerchief of jib and about 1/2 of the mizzen, drifting directly downwind. The slick we created to windward calmed any breakers (only one small breaker slapped the boat in all that time), the motion was benign, and we lost only 50 miles in two days.

In thunderstorms with high winds, I reduce sail as the storm approaches, and if there is room, I keep the wind on the aft quarter until it abates. It often changes direction continuously as the storm passes, it can take an hour or more until the prevailing winds return.

Kent
SM 243
Kristy


On Jul 23, 2019, at 10:28 PM, Mike Ondra via Groups.Io <mdondra=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

During our recent passage from Boston to the Chesapeake Bay we experienced two severe thunderstorms. In one winds reached 40 kn sustained with gusts to 55 kn for about 10 minutes at the severest. Fortunately the storms were relatively short duration and the seas were confused not having had a chance to organize and build significantly. Our tactic was to motor into the wind with bare poles. At 40+ knots even at full throttle we could barely maintain rudder control as we made way at around 2+/- knots: The wind would push the bow 20 to 30° off course before recovery under autopilot. We did not try hand steering as the auto pilot was doing an OK job in general. It’s seems that in any greater amount of wind or with a more significantly organized sea this tactic would have put us broadside to the wind and waves and then who knows what?
Drouges and see anchors make a lot of sense for longer duration storms. Thoughts on storm tactics for short duration events such as this?
Mike Ondra
Aletes SM 240
Rock Hall, MD








eric freedman
 

Hi Kent,
Did you add the drogue attachment points that Jordan recommended ?
If not how are you going to attach it to your boat?
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

-----Original Message-----
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of karkauai via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2019 8:56 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Storm tactics

Hi Danny,
I carry a Jordan Drogue for a huge sea and 60+kts. Hope I never have to use it. If on a lee shore, I guess would have to try tacking under engine and ATN GaleSail. We’re going to deploy the drogue and gale sail this fall and make sure we know how to use them and what they’ll do.

Does anybody know of a really good storm tactics hands-on class?

Kent
S/V Kristy
SM 243

On Jul 24, 2019, at 2:50 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:

Hi Kent,
I agree with you. Done the same myself, both the reduction in sail as a windy thunderstorm approaches and the heaving to, although not for 48 hours. However 8 to 12 ft seas is one thing, oceanic monsters is another altogether and would need evaluation as to tactic. The ability to furl and unfurl sail rapidly is one of the many beauties of the Amel
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
On 24 July 2019 at 14:59 "karkauai via Groups.Io" <karkauai=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:


Hi Mike,

We got caught in a slow moving front last spring with 35-40kts with gusts over 45 from the N (where we wanted to go). We didn’t want to run S with the storm and lose a lot of ground, and tacking into 8-12 ft seas didn’t seem like much fun (and probably wouldn’t have gotten us very far N). We hove to for almost 48 hours with a small handkerchief of jib and about 1/2 of the mizzen, drifting directly downwind. The slick we created to windward calmed any breakers (only one small breaker slapped the boat in all that time), the motion was benign, and we lost only 50 miles in two days.

In thunderstorms with high winds, I reduce sail as the storm approaches, and if there is room, I keep the wind on the aft quarter until it abates. It often changes direction continuously as the storm passes, it can take an hour or more until the prevailing winds return.

Kent
SM 243
Kristy


On Jul 23, 2019, at 10:28 PM, Mike Ondra via Groups.Io <mdondra=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

During our recent passage from Boston to the Chesapeake Bay we experienced two severe thunderstorms. In one winds reached 40 kn sustained with gusts to 55 kn for about 10 minutes at the severest. Fortunately the storms were relatively short duration and the seas were confused not having had a chance to organize and build significantly. Our tactic was to motor into the wind with bare poles. At 40+ knots even at full throttle we could barely maintain rudder control as we made way at around 2+/- knots: The wind would push the bow 20 to 30° off course before recovery under autopilot. We did not try hand steering as the auto pilot was doing an OK job in general. It’s seems that in any greater amount of wind or with a more significantly organized sea this tactic would have put us broadside to the wind and waves and then who knows what?
Drouges and see anchors make a lot of sense for longer duration storms. Thoughts on storm tactics for short duration events such as this?
Mike Ondra
Aletes SM 240
Rock Hall, MD








david bruce
 

Hi All,  

Very interesting thread.  Eric, the Ocean Navigator article did not specify, but for some reason I assumed you used the stock stern cleats to affix the JSD during your hurricane encounter, if so how did that work?, if not did you install chainplates as attachment points.   Short of thru bolted chainplates, could one reinforce the existing cleats to allow for their use with the JSD.

Tangentially, I am curious, as a relative novice Amel owner how best to 'de pressurize' the sails when in a seaway and building winds in order to reef without stressing the furling motors.  Is releasing sheets generally sufficient or is it necessary to head to wind, which would seem to make a boat vulnerable or at least quite uncomfortable to beam seas.    

Thanks,  

Dave Bruce 
sv Liesse
SN006, Gaeta, Italy


On Jul 24, 2019, at 7:18 PM, eric freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:

Hi Kent,
Did you add the drogue attachment points that Jordan recommended ?
If not how are you going to attach it to your boat?
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376


-----Original Message-----
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of karkauai via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2019 8:56 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Storm tactics

Hi Danny,
I carry a Jordan Drogue for a huge sea and 60+kts.  Hope I never have to use it.  If on a lee shore, I guess would have to try tacking under engine and ATN GaleSail.  We’re going to deploy the drogue and gale sail this fall and make sure we know how to use them and what they’ll do.

Does anybody know of a really good storm tactics hands-on class?

Kent
S/V Kristy
SM 243

On Jul 24, 2019, at 2:50 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:

Hi Kent,
I agree with you. Done the same myself, both the reduction in sail as a windy thunderstorm approaches and the heaving to, although not for 48 hours. However 8 to 12 ft seas is one thing, oceanic monsters is another altogether and would need evaluation as to tactic. The ability to furl and unfurl sail rapidly is one of the many beauties of the Amel
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
On 24 July 2019 at 14:59 "karkauai via Groups.Io" <karkauai@...> wrote:


Hi Mike,

We got caught in a slow moving front last spring with 35-40kts with gusts over 45 from the N (where we wanted to go).  We didn’t want to run S with the storm and lose a lot of ground, and tacking into 8-12 ft seas didn’t seem like much fun (and probably wouldn’t have gotten us very far N).  We hove to for almost 48 hours with a small handkerchief of jib and about 1/2 of the mizzen, drifting directly downwind.  The slick we created to windward calmed any breakers (only one small breaker slapped the boat in all that time), the motion was benign, and we lost only 50 miles in two days.

In thunderstorms with high winds, I reduce sail as the storm approaches, and if there is room, I keep the wind on the aft quarter until it abates.  It often changes direction continuously as the storm passes, it can take an hour or more until the prevailing winds return.

Kent
SM 243
Kristy


On Jul 23, 2019, at 10:28 PM, Mike Ondra via Groups.Io <mdondra@...> wrote:

During our recent passage from Boston to the Chesapeake Bay we experienced two severe thunderstorms. In one winds reached 40 kn sustained with gusts to 55 kn for about 10 minutes at the severest. Fortunately the storms were relatively short duration and the seas were confused  not having had a chance to organize and build significantly. Our tactic was to motor into the wind with bare poles. At 40+ knots even at full throttle we could barely maintain rudder control as we made way at around 2+/- knots: The wind would push the bow 20 to 30° off course before recovery under autopilot. We did not try hand steering as the auto pilot was doing an OK job in general. It’s seems that in any greater amount of wind or with a more significantly organized sea this tactic would have put us broadside to the wind and waves and then who knows what?
Drouges and see anchors make a lot of sense for longer duration storms.  Thoughts on storm tactics for short duration events such as this? 
Mike Ondra
Aletes SM 240
Rock Hall, MD


















eric freedman
 

Bruce,

My stern cleats are super reinforced and are not stock stern cleats.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of davidcbruce57@...
Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2019 12:18 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Storm tactics

 

Hi All,  

 

Very interesting thread.  Eric, the Ocean Navigator article did not specify, but for some reason I assumed you used the stock stern cleats to affix the JSD during your hurricane encounter, if so how did that work?, if not did you install chainplates as attachment points.   Short of thru bolted chainplates, could one reinforce the existing cleats to allow for their use with the JSD.

 

Tangentially, I am curious, as a relative novice Amel owner how best to 'de pressurize' the sails when in a seaway and building winds in order to reef without stressing the furling motors.  Is releasing sheets generally sufficient or is it necessary to head to wind, which would seem to make a boat vulnerable or at least quite uncomfortable to beam seas.    

 

Thanks,  

 

Dave Bruce 

sv Liesse

SN006, Gaeta, Italy

 

 

On Jul 24, 2019, at 7:18 PM, eric freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:

 

Hi Kent,
Did you add the drogue attachment points that Jordan recommended ?
If not how are you going to attach it to your boat?
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376


-----Original Message-----
From: 
main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of karkauai via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2019 8:56 PM
To: 
main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Storm tactics

Hi Danny,
I carry a Jordan Drogue for a huge sea and 60+kts.  Hope I never have to use it.  If on a lee shore, I guess would have to try tacking under engine and ATN GaleSail.  We’re going to deploy the drogue and gale sail this fall and make sure we know how to use them and what they’ll do.

Does anybody know of a really good storm tactics hands-on class?

Kent
S/V Kristy
SM 243

On Jul 24, 2019, at 2:50 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:

Hi Kent,
I agree with you. Done the same myself, both the reduction in sail as a windy thunderstorm approaches and the heaving to, although not for 48 hours. However 8 to 12 ft seas is one thing, oceanic monsters is another altogether and would need evaluation as to tactic. The ability to furl and unfurl sail rapidly is one of the many beauties of the Amel
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl

On 24 July 2019 at 14:59 "karkauai via Groups.Io" <karkauai@...> wrote:


Hi Mike,

We got caught in a slow moving front last spring with 35-40kts with gusts over 45 from the N (where we wanted to go).  We didn’t want to run S with the storm and lose a lot of ground, and tacking into 8-12 ft seas didn’t seem like much fun (and probably wouldn’t have gotten us very far N).  We hove to for almost 48 hours with a small handkerchief of jib and about 1/2 of the mizzen, drifting directly downwind.  The slick we created to windward calmed any breakers (only one small breaker slapped the boat in all that time), the motion was benign, and we lost only 50 miles in two days.

In thunderstorms with high winds, I reduce sail as the storm approaches, and if there is room, I keep the wind on the aft quarter until it abates.  It often changes direction continuously as the storm passes, it can take an hour or more until the prevailing winds return.

Kent
SM 243
Kristy


On Jul 23, 2019, at 10:28 PM, Mike Ondra via Groups.Io <mdondra@...> wrote:

During our recent passage from Boston to the Chesapeake Bay we experienced two severe thunderstorms. In one winds reached 40 kn sustained with gusts to 55 kn for about 10 minutes at the severest. Fortunately the storms were relatively short duration and the seas were confused  not having had a chance to organize and build significantly. Our tactic was to motor into the wind with bare poles. At 40+ knots even at full throttle we could barely maintain rudder control as we made way at around 2+/- knots: The wind would push the bow 20 to 30° off course before recovery under autopilot. We did not try hand steering as the auto pilot was doing an OK job in general. It’s seems that in any greater amount of wind or with a more significantly organized sea this tactic would have put us broadside to the wind and waves and then who knows what?
Drouges and see anchors make a lot of sense for longer duration storms.  Thoughts on storm tactics for short duration events such as this? 
Mike Ondra
Aletes SM 240
Rock Hall, MD

















 

Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown
 

Dave,

 

We always sheet out so the genoa flogs before reefing in, this way the rubber belt in the furler does not break. We do not find it necessary to change heading.

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of davidcbruce57@...
Sent: 25 July 2019 06:18
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Storm tactics

 

Hi All,  

 

Very interesting thread.  Eric, the Ocean Navigator article did not specify, but for some reason I assumed you used the stock stern cleats to affix the JSD during your hurricane encounter, if so how did that work?, if not did you install chainplates as attachment points.   Short of thru bolted chainplates, could one reinforce the existing cleats to allow for their use with the JSD.

 

Tangentially, I am curious, as a relative novice Amel owner how best to 'de pressurize' the sails when in a seaway and building winds in order to reef without stressing the furling motors.  Is releasing sheets generally sufficient or is it necessary to head to wind, which would seem to make a boat vulnerable or at least quite uncomfortable to beam seas.    

 

Thanks,  

 

Dave Bruce 

sv Liesse

SN006, Gaeta, Italy

 

 

On Jul 24, 2019, at 7:18 PM, eric freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:

 

Hi Kent,
Did you add the drogue attachment points that Jordan recommended ?
If not how are you going to attach it to your boat?
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376


-----Original Message-----
From: 
main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of karkauai via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2019 8:56 PM
To: 
main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Storm tactics

Hi Danny,
I carry a Jordan Drogue for a huge sea and 60+kts.  Hope I never have to use it.  If on a lee shore, I guess would have to try tacking under engine and ATN GaleSail.  We’re going to deploy the drogue and gale sail this fall and make sure we know how to use them and what they’ll do.

Does anybody know of a really good storm tactics hands-on class?

Kent
S/V Kristy
SM 243

On Jul 24, 2019, at 2:50 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:

Hi Kent,
I agree with you. Done the same myself, both the reduction in sail as a windy thunderstorm approaches and the heaving to, although not for 48 hours. However 8 to 12 ft seas is one thing, oceanic monsters is another altogether and would need evaluation as to tactic. The ability to furl and unfurl sail rapidly is one of the many beauties of the Amel
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl

On 24 July 2019 at 14:59 "karkauai via Groups.Io" <karkauai@...> wrote:


Hi Mike,

We got caught in a slow moving front last spring with 35-40kts with gusts over 45 from the N (where we wanted to go).  We didn’t want to run S with the storm and lose a lot of ground, and tacking into 8-12 ft seas didn’t seem like much fun (and probably wouldn’t have gotten us very far N).  We hove to for almost 48 hours with a small handkerchief of jib and about 1/2 of the mizzen, drifting directly downwind.  The slick we created to windward calmed any breakers (only one small breaker slapped the boat in all that time), the motion was benign, and we lost only 50 miles in two days.

In thunderstorms with high winds, I reduce sail as the storm approaches, and if there is room, I keep the wind on the aft quarter until it abates.  It often changes direction continuously as the storm passes, it can take an hour or more until the prevailing winds return.

Kent
SM 243
Kristy


On Jul 23, 2019, at 10:28 PM, Mike Ondra via Groups.Io <mdondra@...> wrote:

During our recent passage from Boston to the Chesapeake Bay we experienced two severe thunderstorms. In one winds reached 40 kn sustained with gusts to 55 kn for about 10 minutes at the severest. Fortunately the storms were relatively short duration and the seas were confused  not having had a chance to organize and build significantly. Our tactic was to motor into the wind with bare poles. At 40+ knots even at full throttle we could barely maintain rudder control as we made way at around 2+/- knots: The wind would push the bow 20 to 30° off course before recovery under autopilot. We did not try hand steering as the auto pilot was doing an OK job in general. It’s seems that in any greater amount of wind or with a more significantly organized sea this tactic would have put us broadside to the wind and waves and then who knows what?
Drouges and see anchors make a lot of sense for longer duration storms.  Thoughts on storm tactics for short duration events such as this? 
Mike Ondra
Aletes SM 240
Rock Hall, MD

















 


--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

karkauai
 

Just now looking at that, Eric.  I was thinking/hoping that I could run the bridle thru blocks to the jib winches, but haven’t gotten far enough to know if that will work.
I have an arch that may complicate things even more.

Kent
S/V Kristy
SM 243

On Jul 25, 2019, at 12:17 AM, davidcbruce57@... wrote:

Hi All,  

Very interesting thread.  Eric, the Ocean Navigator article did not specify, but for some reason I assumed you used the stock stern cleats to affix the JSD during your hurricane encounter, if so how did that work?, if not did you install chainplates as attachment points.   Short of thru bolted chainplates, could one reinforce the existing cleats to allow for their use with the JSD.

Tangentially, I am curious, as a relative novice Amel owner how best to 'de pressurize' the sails when in a seaway and building winds in order to reef without stressing the furling motors.  Is releasing sheets generally sufficient or is it necessary to head to wind, which would seem to make a boat vulnerable or at least quite uncomfortable to beam seas.    

Thanks,  

Dave Bruce 
sv Liesse
SN006, Gaeta, Italy


On Jul 24, 2019, at 7:18 PM, eric freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:

Hi Kent,
Did you add the drogue attachment points that Jordan recommended ?
If not how are you going to attach it to your boat?
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376


-----Original Message-----
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of karkauai via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2019 8:56 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Storm tactics

Hi Danny,
I carry a Jordan Drogue for a huge sea and 60+kts.  Hope I never have to use it.  If on a lee shore, I guess would have to try tacking under engine and ATN GaleSail.  We’re going to deploy the drogue and gale sail this fall and make sure we know how to use them and what they’ll do.

Does anybody know of a really good storm tactics hands-on class?

Kent
S/V Kristy
SM 243

On Jul 24, 2019, at 2:50 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:

Hi Kent,
I agree with you. Done the same myself, both the reduction in sail as a windy thunderstorm approaches and the heaving to, although not for 48 hours. However 8 to 12 ft seas is one thing, oceanic monsters is another altogether and would need evaluation as to tactic. The ability to furl and unfurl sail rapidly is one of the many beauties of the Amel
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
On 24 July 2019 at 14:59 "karkauai via Groups.Io" <karkauai@...> wrote:


Hi Mike,

We got caught in a slow moving front last spring with 35-40kts with gusts over 45 from the N (where we wanted to go).  We didn’t want to run S with the storm and lose a lot of ground, and tacking into 8-12 ft seas didn’t seem like much fun (and probably wouldn’t have gotten us very far N).  We hove to for almost 48 hours with a small handkerchief of jib and about 1/2 of the mizzen, drifting directly downwind.  The slick we created to windward calmed any breakers (only one small breaker slapped the boat in all that time), the motion was benign, and we lost only 50 miles in two days.

In thunderstorms with high winds, I reduce sail as the storm approaches, and if there is room, I keep the wind on the aft quarter until it abates.  It often changes direction continuously as the storm passes, it can take an hour or more until the prevailing winds return.

Kent
SM 243
Kristy


On Jul 23, 2019, at 10:28 PM, Mike Ondra via Groups.Io <mdondra@...> wrote:

During our recent passage from Boston to the Chesapeake Bay we experienced two severe thunderstorms. In one winds reached 40 kn sustained with gusts to 55 kn for about 10 minutes at the severest. Fortunately the storms were relatively short duration and the seas were confused  not having had a chance to organize and build significantly. Our tactic was to motor into the wind with bare poles. At 40+ knots even at full throttle we could barely maintain rudder control as we made way at around 2+/- knots: The wind would push the bow 20 to 30° off course before recovery under autopilot. We did not try hand steering as the auto pilot was doing an OK job in general. It’s seems that in any greater amount of wind or with a more significantly organized sea this tactic would have put us broadside to the wind and waves and then who knows what?
Drouges and see anchors make a lot of sense for longer duration storms.  Thoughts on storm tactics for short duration events such as this? 
Mike Ondra
Aletes SM 240
Rock Hall, MD


















Porter McRoberts
 

Great thread, Thanks all. 
Question re the JSD and attachment points. We have a JSD and sadly no reinforced rear cleats. What would be the best attachment points on our 54 for both strength and chafe? Also for steering?  We carry a good amount of amsteel of various lengths and widths for harness fashioning. (The JSD does come with a harness). I do have an idea but wondering if others have a solution. 

As always very appreciated!

Porter 
S/V Ibis
A54-152 Tahaa, FP

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Jul 25, 2019, at 5:39 AM, karkauai via Groups.Io <karkauai@...> wrote:

Just now looking at that, Eric.  I was thinking/hoping that I could run the bridle thru blocks to the jib winches, but haven’t gotten far enough to know if that will work.
I have an arch that may complicate things even more.

Kent
S/V Kristy
SM 243

On Jul 25, 2019, at 12:17 AM, davidcbruce57@... wrote:

Hi All,  

Very interesting thread.  Eric, the Ocean Navigator article did not specify, but for some reason I assumed you used the stock stern cleats to affix the JSD during your hurricane encounter, if so how did that work?, if not did you install chainplates as attachment points.   Short of thru bolted chainplates, could one reinforce the existing cleats to allow for their use with the JSD.

Tangentially, I am curious, as a relative novice Amel owner how best to 'de pressurize' the sails when in a seaway and building winds in order to reef without stressing the furling motors.  Is releasing sheets generally sufficient or is it necessary to head to wind, which would seem to make a boat vulnerable or at least quite uncomfortable to beam seas.    

Thanks,  

Dave Bruce 
sv Liesse
SN006, Gaeta, Italy


On Jul 24, 2019, at 7:18 PM, eric freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:

Hi Kent,
Did you add the drogue attachment points that Jordan recommended ?
If not how are you going to attach it to your boat?
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376


-----Original Message-----
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of karkauai via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2019 8:56 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Storm tactics

Hi Danny,
I carry a Jordan Drogue for a huge sea and 60+kts.  Hope I never have to use it.  If on a lee shore, I guess would have to try tacking under engine and ATN GaleSail.  We’re going to deploy the drogue and gale sail this fall and make sure we know how to use them and what they’ll do.

Does anybody know of a really good storm tactics hands-on class?

Kent
S/V Kristy
SM 243

On Jul 24, 2019, at 2:50 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:

Hi Kent,
I agree with you. Done the same myself, both the reduction in sail as a windy thunderstorm approaches and the heaving to, although not for 48 hours. However 8 to 12 ft seas is one thing, oceanic monsters is another altogether and would need evaluation as to tactic. The ability to furl and unfurl sail rapidly is one of the many beauties of the Amel
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
On 24 July 2019 at 14:59 "karkauai via Groups.Io" <karkauai@...> wrote:


Hi Mike,

We got caught in a slow moving front last spring with 35-40kts with gusts over 45 from the N (where we wanted to go).  We didn’t want to run S with the storm and lose a lot of ground, and tacking into 8-12 ft seas didn’t seem like much fun (and probably wouldn’t have gotten us very far N).  We hove to for almost 48 hours with a small handkerchief of jib and about 1/2 of the mizzen, drifting directly downwind.  The slick we created to windward calmed any breakers (only one small breaker slapped the boat in all that time), the motion was benign, and we lost only 50 miles in two days.

In thunderstorms with high winds, I reduce sail as the storm approaches, and if there is room, I keep the wind on the aft quarter until it abates.  It often changes direction continuously as the storm passes, it can take an hour or more until the prevailing winds return.

Kent
SM 243
Kristy


On Jul 23, 2019, at 10:28 PM, Mike Ondra via Groups.Io <mdondra@...> wrote:

During our recent passage from Boston to the Chesapeake Bay we experienced two severe thunderstorms. In one winds reached 40 kn sustained with gusts to 55 kn for about 10 minutes at the severest. Fortunately the storms were relatively short duration and the seas were confused  not having had a chance to organize and build significantly. Our tactic was to motor into the wind with bare poles. At 40+ knots even at full throttle we could barely maintain rudder control as we made way at around 2+/- knots: The wind would push the bow 20 to 30° off course before recovery under autopilot. We did not try hand steering as the auto pilot was doing an OK job in general. It’s seems that in any greater amount of wind or with a more significantly organized sea this tactic would have put us broadside to the wind and waves and then who knows what?
Drouges and see anchors make a lot of sense for longer duration storms.  Thoughts on storm tactics for short duration events such as this? 
Mike Ondra
Aletes SM 240
Rock Hall, MD


















Mike Ondra
 

Thanks to all for sharing your experiences with storms. More tools for the tool bag. Seems like heaving to should work in most conditions, and the drogue may be the ultimate tactic.

Mike Ondra

Aletes SM#240

Chesapeake Bay

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2019 2:11 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Storm tactics

 

Great thread, Thanks all. 

Question re the JSD and attachment points. We have a JSD and sadly no reinforced rear cleats. What would be the best attachment points on our 54 for both strength and chafe? Also for steering?  We carry a good amount of amsteel of various lengths and widths for harness fashioning. (The JSD does come with a harness). I do have an idea but wondering if others have a solution. 

 

As always very appreciated!

 

Porter 

S/V Ibis

A54-152 Tahaa, FP

 

Excuse the errors.  

Sent from my IPhone 


On Jul 25, 2019, at 5:39 AM, karkauai via Groups.Io <karkauai@...> wrote:

Just now looking at that, Eric.  I was thinking/hoping that I could run the bridle thru blocks to the jib winches, but haven’t gotten far enough to know if that will work.

I have an arch that may complicate things even more.

Kent

S/V Kristy

SM 243


On Jul 25, 2019, at 12:17 AM, davidcbruce57@... wrote:

Hi All,  

 

Very interesting thread.  Eric, the Ocean Navigator article did not specify, but for some reason I assumed you used the stock stern cleats to affix the JSD during your hurricane encounter, if so how did that work?, if not did you install chainplates as attachment points.   Short of thru bolted chainplates, could one reinforce the existing cleats to allow for their use with the JSD.

 

Tangentially, I am curious, as a relative novice Amel owner how best to 'de pressurize' the sails when in a seaway and building winds in order to reef without stressing the furling motors.  Is releasing sheets generally sufficient or is it necessary to head to wind, which would seem to make a boat vulnerable or at least quite uncomfortable to beam seas.    

 

Thanks,  

 

Dave Bruce 

sv Liesse

SN006, Gaeta, Italy

 

 

On Jul 24, 2019, at 7:18 PM, eric freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:

 

Hi Kent,
Did you add the drogue attachment points that Jordan recommended ?
If not how are you going to attach it to your boat?
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376


-----Original Message-----
From: 
main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of karkauai via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2019 8:56 PM
To: 
main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Storm tactics

Hi Danny,
I carry a Jordan Drogue for a huge sea and 60+kts.  Hope I never have to use it.  If on a lee shore, I guess would have to try tacking under engine and ATN GaleSail.  We’re going to deploy the drogue and gale sail this fall and make sure we know how to use them and what they’ll do.

Does anybody know of a really good storm tactics hands-on class?

Kent
S/V Kristy
SM 243

On Jul 24, 2019, at 2:50 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:

Hi Kent,
I agree with you. Done the same myself, both the reduction in sail as a windy thunderstorm approaches and the heaving to, although not for 48 hours. However 8 to 12 ft seas is one thing, oceanic monsters is another altogether and would need evaluation as to tactic. The ability to furl and unfurl sail rapidly is one of the many beauties of the Amel
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl

On 24 July 2019 at 14:59 "karkauai via Groups.Io" <karkauai@...> wrote:


Hi Mike,

We got caught in a slow moving front last spring with 35-40kts with gusts over 45 from the N (where we wanted to go).  We didn’t want to run S with the storm and lose a lot of ground, and tacking into 8-12 ft seas didn’t seem like much fun (and probably wouldn’t have gotten us very far N).  We hove to for almost 48 hours with a small handkerchief of jib and about 1/2 of the mizzen, drifting directly downwind.  The slick we created to windward calmed any breakers (only one small breaker slapped the boat in all that time), the motion was benign, and we lost only 50 miles in two days.

In thunderstorms with high winds, I reduce sail as the storm approaches, and if there is room, I keep the wind on the aft quarter until it abates.  It often changes direction continuously as the storm passes, it can take an hour or more until the prevailing winds return.

Kent
SM 243
Kristy


On Jul 23, 2019, at 10:28 PM, Mike Ondra via Groups.Io <mdondra@...> wrote:

During our recent passage from Boston to the Chesapeake Bay we experienced two severe thunderstorms. In one winds reached 40 kn sustained with gusts to 55 kn for about 10 minutes at the severest. Fortunately the storms were relatively short duration and the seas were confused  not having had a chance to organize and build significantly. Our tactic was to motor into the wind with bare poles. At 40+ knots even at full throttle we could barely maintain rudder control as we made way at around 2+/- knots: The wind would push the bow 20 to 30° off course before recovery under autopilot. We did not try hand steering as the auto pilot was doing an OK job in general. It’s seems that in any greater amount of wind or with a more significantly organized sea this tactic would have put us broadside to the wind and waves and then who knows what?
Drouges and see anchors make a lot of sense for longer duration storms.  Thoughts on storm tactics for short duration events such as this? 
Mike Ondra
Aletes SM 240
Rock Hall, MD

















 

Eamonn Washington
 

Hi Eric

when you were in the hurricane did you have the standard stern cleats then?  Are the super reinforced cleats that you now have the same size at the Amel originals with a bigger backing plate?

I bought a JSD a couple of years ago after I read about your experience.  I had the impression that you just used the standard cleats at the time.

Eamonn Washington
Travel Bug
Super Maramu #151
Currently in Cagliari, Sardinia, Italy.

Brian Riggs
 

Hello all,

What are your thoughts on using a para-anchor or storm rated sea anchor type setup?

Brian Riggs
Future Amel Owner

Peter Forbes
 

Hi Brian,

I bought and carried a sea anchor parachute (to be launched from the cockpit but streams just off dead ahead) full kit unused thankfully.

After I had bought it I became certain that I had got it wrong and I should have bought a Jordan Drogue which lots of Americans have.  I think a Jordan drogue (lots of small parachutes) is easier to launch and to recover at the end. I did a lot of research.

Just my small input.

Best wishes in your decision.

Peter
Peter Forbes
0044 7836 209730
Carango  Sailing Ketch
Amel 54 #035
In LA Rochelle

On 7 Aug 2019, at 08:16, Brian Riggs <7briggs@...> wrote:

Hello all,

What are your thoughts on using a para-anchor or storm rated sea anchor type setup?

Brian Riggs
Future Amel Owner

Brian Riggs
 

Peter,

I've been doing more research on this...again. I used to own a 27' off-shore center console power cat with a ParaTech sea Anchor. That's very different from say an Amel Santorin. I'm currently leaning towards a JDS if budget and space require me to choose. Otherwise, I'd have both and be prepared for both. However, I expect my first inclination would be to reach for the JDS.

This link provides a good, although sometimes heated, discussion. I think there is a good deal of value that can be learned for this.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f90/jordan-series-drogue-vs-paratech-sea-anchor-42662.html

Cheers!
Brian Riggs
Future Amel Owner

Peter Forbes
 

Thank s Brian - good luck choosing!

Peter
Peter Forbes
0044 7836 209730
Carango  Sailing Ketch
Amel 54 #035
In La Rochelle

On 7 Aug 2019, at 17:37, Brian Riggs <7briggs@...> wrote:

Peter,

I've been doing more research on this...again. I used to own a 27' off-shore center console power cat with a ParaTech sea Anchor. That's very different from say an Amel Santorin. I'm currently leaning towards a JDS if budget and space require me to choose. Otherwise, I'd have both and be prepared for both. However, I expect my first inclination would be to reach for the JDS.

This link provides a good, although sometimes heated, discussion. I think there is a good deal of value that can be learned for this.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f90/jordan-series-drogue-vs-paratech-sea-anchor-42662.html

Cheers!
Brian Riggs
Future Amel Owner

Jacob Champness
 

Hey Eric-- 
Did you add chain plates to attach the drogue?  If not, where and how do you attach it?  Have you ever had to use it?
Thanks,
Jacob
Lark, Maramu #42
Mistake Island, Maine