Topics

VP MD22L

Bernd Spanner
 

Hi everyone!
Following problem on a SN (119 From 1995)
Engine VP MD22 L
I have the following problem...
After a few hours engine ops the sweat water (coolant circuit) becomes saltwater. I suspected the leak in the bundle (the tube with the many small holes, about 40 cm long in the heat exchanger). I did a pressure check on this part with a compressor today and there seems to be NO leak. I slowly come to the end of my ideas... ? The engine is still good for it’s age, but running on saltwater will kill it sooner or later 😢 Anyone with some hints n ideas for me?!
Greets
--
Bernd
SN 119 / Cascais, Portugal

Mark McGovern
 

Bernd,

Seawater should only come in close proximity to coolant (sweat water) inside the heat exchanger.  There has to be a leak in there somewhere. How did you conduct the pressure test?

--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Bernd,

It will be a seal that separates the two water streams. The TMD 22 volvos and different heat exchangers on different engines so cant be definitive but investigate all the seals

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean pearl

On 02 August 2019 at 08:38 Mark McGovern <mfmcgovern@...> wrote:

Bernd,

Seawater should only come in close proximity to coolant (sweat water) inside the heat exchanger.  There has to be a leak in there somewhere. How did you conduct the pressure test?

--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA

Mark Erdos
 

Brend,

 

As others have already suggested, the heat exchanger is the most likely culprit. You have a hole somewhere. Either in a seal or a failure in the exchanger itself. This would be your best case scenario. Else, you might have a cracked engine block.  This is unlikely but possible.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Vista Mar, Panama

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bernd Spanner
Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2019 3:52 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] VP MD22L

 

Hi everyone!
Following problem on a SN (119 From 1995)
Engine VP MD22 L
I have the following problem...
After a few hours engine ops the sweat water (coolant circuit) becomes saltwater. I suspected the leak in the bundle (the tube with the many small holes, about 40 cm long in the heat exchanger). I did a pressure check on this part with a compressor today and there seems to be NO leak. I slowly come to the end of my ideas... ? The engine is still good for it’s age, but running on saltwater will kill it sooner or later 😢 Anyone with some hints n ideas for me?!
Greets
--
Bernd
SN 119 / Cascais, Portugal

Bernd Spanner
 

2 answers at once.

1st pressure check done with a compressor. Meaning compressor to one side of the pipes and sealed on the other side.

2nd Will reinstall tomorrow. Seals seem to be good, will check to have them tight enough.
crack in the engine block. Can not imagine how saltwater would enter the sweat water circuit if the engineblock would have a crack. Exhaust fumes are clean.
Please keep fingers crossed. Don’t want to buy a new engine... But at some point.... how much do you really want to invest in a 25 yo engine...
Bernd
SN 119 / Cascais, Portugal

Mark Erdos
 

Bernd,

 

So sorry, I read your problem too quickly and thought you were losing coolant. I just re-read and see it is becoming contaminated with saltwater. You are in the right area. Keep hunting about the heat exchanger! You will have a eureka moment. Hopefully sooner, rather than later.

 

 

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Vista Mar, Panama

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bernd Spanner
Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2019 5:35 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] VP MD22L

 

2 answers at once.

1st pressure check done with a compressor. Meaning compressor to one side of the pipes and sealed on the other side.

2nd Will reinstall tomorrow. Seals seem to be good, will check to have them tight enough.
crack in the engine block. Can not imagine how saltwater would enter the sweat water circuit if the engineblock would have a crack. Exhaust fumes are clean.
Please keep fingers crossed. Don’t want to buy a new engine... But at some point.... how much do you really want to invest in a 25 yo engine...
Bernd
SN 119 / Cascais, Portugal

Patrick McAneny
 

Bernard , On my Volvo TMD22a the heat exchanger has a rubber cap on each end, the caps seal around the heat exchanger tube and also seals around the heat exchanger vessel or housing that contains the antifreeze. So the caps serve a dual purpose and the cap is tightened around the exchanger (tube) and the vessl with s.s. clamps. If that clamp is not tight or the cap is in poor condition then salt water can get into the coolant. Its not a great design and I have always worried about a failure resulting in what you have. I just replaced the caps because they were old ,dried out and lost their flexibility ,thus their ability to seal . I might add that I had an overheating issue for years and finally discovered that there was a rubber o ring seal that slide over the tube that had gotten old and broke apart. That o ring insures that all the coolant flows thru the heat exchanger. If you should buy new caps don't buy them for a Volvo ,but for a Perkins , assuming your engine is a Perkins as mine is ,same caps are $340 from Volvo ,$35 from Perkins. Hope this helps,have any questions...
Pat
SM Shenanigans
Sassafras River , Md.


-----Original Message-----
From: Bernd Spanner <bernd.spanner@...>
To: main <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Aug 1, 2019 3:52 pm
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] VP MD22L

Hi everyone!
Following problem on a SN (119 From 1995)
Engine VP MD22 L
I have the following problem...
After a few hours engine ops the sweat water (coolant circuit) becomes saltwater. I suspected the leak in the bundle (the tube with the many small holes, about 40 cm long in the heat exchanger). I did a pressure check on this part with a compressor today and there seems to be NO leak. I slowly come to the end of my ideas... ? The engine is still good for it’s age, but running on saltwater will kill it sooner or later 😢 Anyone with some hints n ideas for me?!
Greets
--
Bernd
SN 119 / Cascais, Portugal

eric freedman
 

If you have a intercooler, oil cooler, or transmission cooler, it could be one of these.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bernd Spanner
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2019 3:52 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] VP MD22L

 

Hi everyone!
Following problem on a SN (119 From 1995)
Engine VP MD22 L
I have the following problem...
After a few hours engine ops the sweat water (coolant circuit) becomes saltwater. I suspected the leak in the bundle (the tube with the many small holes, about 40 cm long in the heat exchanger). I did a pressure check on this part with a compressor today and there seems to be NO leak. I slowly come to the end of my ideas... ? The engine is still good for it’s age, but running on saltwater will kill it sooner or later 😢 Anyone with some hints n ideas for me?!
Greets
--
Bernd
SN 119 / Cascais, Portugal

Craig & Katherine Briggs SN 68 Sangaris Tropic Isle Harbor, FL
 

No intercooler, oil cooler or transmission cooler on this engine.  Has to be either the rubber end caps on the heat exchanger with their two hose clamps or a leak inside the heat exchanger tubes.

Craig & Katherine Briggs SN 68 Sangaris Tropic Isle Harbor, FL
 

Hi Bernd,
Per my and others' earlier posts, most likely it is the rubber end caps on the heat exchanger or the heat exchanger itself. But thinking about it more, how do you know it is salt water and not fresh water? A taste test would be difficult with antifreeze in the mix.

The only other place I can think of for water getting into the engine's sweet water/coolant circuit would be the heat exchanger in your hot water tank. If your other checks come up with nothing, try looking there. With the radiator cap at about 15 psi - 1 bar, your fresh water pump may be about 20-30 psi - 2-ish bars and could conceivable push some fresh water into the engine cooling heat exchanger. Maybe a long shot but worth checking if nothing else is wrong.

Good luck with it,
Craig SN68 Sangaris with your same engine only with a Perkins label. You're not even close to needing a new engine!

eric freedman
 

Then that has to be the problem.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Craig Briggs via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2019 8:57 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] VP MD22L

 

No intercooler, oil cooler or transmission cooler on this engine.  Has to be either the rubber end caps on the heat exchanger with their two hose clamps or a leak inside the heat exchanger tubes.

eric freedman
 

Craig,

That is an excellent idea. I wish I had thought of that.

Eric

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Craig Briggs via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2019 9:23 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] VP MD22L

 

Hi Bernd,
Per my and others' earlier posts, most likely it is the rubber end caps on the heat exchanger or the heat exchanger itself. But thinking about it more, how do you know it is salt water and not fresh water? A taste test would be difficult with antifreeze in the mix.

The only other place I can think of for water getting into the engine's sweet water/coolant circuit would be the heat exchanger in your hot water tank. If your other checks come up with nothing, try looking there. With the radiator cap at about 15 psi - 1 bar, your fresh water pump may be about 20-30 psi - 2-ish bars and could conceivable push some fresh water into the engine cooling heat exchanger. Maybe a long shot but worth checking if nothing else is wrong.

Good luck with it,
Craig SN68 Sangaris with your same engine only with a Perkins label. You're not even close to needing a new engine!

eric freedman
 

On second thought. If the engine is running and a faucet is running, just before the fresh water pump goes on, Isn’t it possible to get antifreeze in the hot water tank?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of eric freedman
Sent: Friday, August 02, 2019 12:51 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] VP MD22L

 

Craig,

That is an excellent idea. I wish I had thought of that.

Eric

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Craig Briggs via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2019 9:23 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] VP MD22L

 

Hi Bernd,
Per my and others' earlier posts, most likely it is the rubber end caps on the heat exchanger or the heat exchanger itself. But thinking about it more, how do you know it is salt water and not fresh water? A taste test would be difficult with antifreeze in the mix.

The only other place I can think of for water getting into the engine's sweet water/coolant circuit would be the heat exchanger in your hot water tank. If your other checks come up with nothing, try looking there. With the radiator cap at about 15 psi - 1 bar, your fresh water pump may be about 20-30 psi - 2-ish bars and could conceivable push some fresh water into the engine cooling heat exchanger. Maybe a long shot but worth checking if nothing else is wrong.

Good luck with it,
Craig SN68 Sangaris with your same engine only with a Perkins label. You're not even close to needing a new engine!

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi again Bernd,

if your heat exchanger has rubber end caps it is high level probability that there is the problem. Tighten the hose clamps as a first try. I had that once on a previous boat and called the Volvo service from out on the water. He said straight up. Tighten the hose clamps. He was right. 

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 02 August 2019 at 13:23 "Craig Briggs via Groups.Io" <sangaris@...> wrote:

Hi Bernd,
Per my and others' earlier posts, most likely it is the rubber end caps on the heat exchanger or the heat exchanger itself. But thinking about it more, how do you know it is salt water and not fresh water? A taste test would be difficult with antifreeze in the mix.

The only other place I can think of for water getting into the engine's sweet water/coolant circuit would be the heat exchanger in your hot water tank. If your other checks come up with nothing, try looking there. With the radiator cap at about 15 psi - 1 bar, your fresh water pump may be about 20-30 psi - 2-ish bars and could conceivable push some fresh water into the engine cooling heat exchanger. Maybe a long shot but worth checking if nothing else is wrong.

Good luck with it,
Craig SN68 Sangaris with your same engine only with a Perkins label. You're not even close to needing a new engine!

Craig & Katherine Briggs SN 68 Sangaris Tropic Isle Harbor, FL
 

That seems reasonable, Eric. It does seem a long shot and one I certainly haven't encountered. So if there is a leak in the water heater heat exchanger I guess it could force fresh water into the coolant when the engine is cool with no pressure.  That seemingly would have the engine be filled by the fresh water pump and likely drain into the bilge through the pressure cap overflow tube. That doesn't seem consistent with Berndt saying the engine coolant fills up when the engine is hot. The plot thickens !! ... but a good mystery.
Craig

Bernd Spanner
 

I already isolated the water heat exchanger. Still same.
getting the salt water result I checked the freeze point of the coolant versus the sea water. What was in the heat exchanger had the same freezing point as the ocean so i tried a drop. Definitely salt water 
i did pressure checkes on every single tube in the heat ex. All good! Its now back in the engine. i used a high torque on the seals and also added some sealant.
will see over the coming weeks if it’s fixed.
--
Bernd
SN 119 / Cascais, Portugal

Mark McGovern
 

Bernd,

I was going to tell you to pressure test the other inlet/outlet of the heat exchanger but you are obviously way ahead of me!  Please let is know how this turns out and best of luck to you!

--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA