Topics

Amel is going lithium

Gerhard Mueller
 

Willem,

even it was 2 years ago and things may have changed now
please publish your source.
--
Gerhard Mueller
Amel Sharki #60
Currently Kalamata, Greece

Scott SV Tengah
 

FYI it turns out my Quattro is mounted vertically in the engine room, so airflow is as Victron recommends. That is probably why it doesn't suffer any ill effects from being in the engine room.

See attached. 

The Skylla is mounted sideways, but again, I have never experienced reduced output from it. That's probably because it's only running at most 2 hours at a time and that's if the battery bank starts out nearly empty.
--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Matt Salatino
 

Willem,
Who is your Chinese battery source? Is there a website?

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Sep 6, 2019, at 8:24 AM, Willem Kroes <kavanga@...> wrote:

Hi Arno,

I bought in China 8 100 Ah at 12 V LifePo4 batteries and imported these by myself into the Netherlands. The total coast was 400 euro per battery. So not cheap, but affordable. After 2 years of use I am very happy with these batteries. I changed the charging system as follows: I reprogrammed the Mastervolt 60A 24 V Chargemaster according to the battery specifications. I bought a new Prestolite 60 A alternator and the internal controller was removed by a Mastervolt dealer and a new Alfa Pro external controller was added and also programmed according to the battery specifications. When the batteries are full the alternator will stop charging and also the temp sensor will interfere when the alternator becomes too hot. First the charge will be half the full charge and when this is not enough the charge will stop at all. After two minutes or so it will start to charge again.
The old Dolphin 30 A charger can't be programmed, but as a backup it works fine after giving it a shock of low voltage by using the coffee machine together with the microwave for a very short time. Afterward the charger will continue charging (dip switch set to gel batteries). 
.

I haven't changed any 220 V applications until now., but I want to run the airconditioning unit for the aft cabin on the batteries in stead of using the gen set. I will need an electrician to arrange this.

Best regards,

Willem Kroes

SM#351 KAVANGA

now in the Ionian in Greece
 

Willem Kroes
 

Hi Arno,

I bought in China 8 100 Ah at 12 V LifePo4 batteries and imported these by myself into the Netherlands. The total coast was 400 euro per battery. So not cheap, but affordable. After 2 years of use I am very happy with these batteries. I changed the charging system as follows: I reprogrammed the Mastervolt 60A 24 V Chargemaster according to the battery specifications. I bought a new Prestolite 60 A alternator and the internal controller was removed by a Mastervolt dealer and a new Alfa Pro external controller was added and also programmed according to the battery specifications. When the batteries are full the alternator will stop charging and also the temp sensor will interfere when the alternator becomes too hot. First the charge will be half the full charge and when this is not enough the charge will stop at all. After two minutes or so it will start to charge again.
The old Dolphin 30 A charger can't be programmed, but as a backup it works fine after giving it a shock of low voltage by using the coffee machine together with the microwave for a very short time. Afterward the charger will continue charging (dip switch set to gel batteries). 
.

I haven't changed any 220 V applications until now., but I want to run the airconditioning unit for the aft cabin on the batteries in stead of using the gen set. I will need an electrician to arrange this.

Best regards,

Willem Kroes

SM#351 KAVANGA

now in the Ionian in Greece
 

Joerg Esdorn
 

Sorry, Ofer.  It appears I didn’t post the pics.  Here they are. Sorry for the delay. 

Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica
 

You are right about additional heat, at this time its quite cool here but that will change soon.

But I just realized that we might use the old lead acid vent that is useless now. Its not huge but might get some heat out.

As I undestand AMEL did the same with the 60 and mounted heat issue gear under the bunk.

Oliver from Vela Nautica

A54#39

Portugal

Sent from my Huawei Mobile


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Amel is going lithium
From: Scott SV Tengah
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
CC:


I never considered adding more heat to the living spaces by venting it into the passageway/alley.
 
Perhaps my thinking is influenced by the high heat and high humidity I'm dealing with right now, but that passage berth, which is perfect for the off-watch crew member, gets warm enough as is. I'd be loathe to do anything that makes it even hotter.

But you're right, the charger/inverter is mounted sideways in the engine compartment. We directed outside air right near the charger/inverter intake, similar to the old Dolphin setup. The Dolphin lasted 12 years, so I presume the "salt air" won't cause damage. And we don't see output tapering even after running it near capacity for longer periods. We followed the Victron recs for line size and used some online calculators to verify, so I'm not too concerned about voltage drop. 

That said, neither solution is ideal, imo. Boats are always compromises, I guess!
--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Scott SV Tengah
 

I never considered adding more heat to the living spaces by venting it into the passageway/alley.
 
Perhaps my thinking is influenced by the high heat and high humidity I'm dealing with right now, but that passage berth, which is perfect for the off-watch crew member, gets warm enough as is. I'd be loathe to do anything that makes it even hotter.

But you're right, the charger/inverter is mounted sideways in the engine compartment. We directed outside air right near the charger/inverter intake, similar to the old Dolphin setup. The Dolphin lasted 12 years, so I presume the "salt air" won't cause damage. And we don't see output tapering even after running it near capacity for longer periods. We followed the Victron recs for line size and used some online calculators to verify, so I'm not too concerned about voltage drop. 

That said, neither solution is ideal, imo. Boats are always compromises, I guess!
--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica
 

Hi Scott,

To place the charger in the engineroom has some downsides:
- hunidity
- heat
- limited space so probably the charger is mounted sideways what lowers airflow.
- long wires

I customized widened the switch area and drilled ventilation holes to the alley.
I install 120mm thermocontrolled fans with heat alarms to blow fresh air into the cabinet.

The 120A5000W fits vertical.

The lifepo is smaller than batteries before with same capacity so i could install a new separation.

The starter batt is now behind the onan in the engine room.

No more dirty lead in the cabin. Hydrogen Should not be an issue as most other yachts place the starter batt around the engine room.

Oliver from Vela Nautica

A54#39

Portugal

Sent from my Huawei Mobile


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Amel is going lithium
From: Scott SV Tengah
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
CC:


I guess this is a reminder that I still owe the group my writeup. :)

Oliver, how do you vent the compartment where you've installed the Victron 24/5000/120 inverter/charger? I mounted mine in the engine compartment (connected with the recommended 2x pair of 50mm2 wires - not 95mm2 as I previously mentioned) in the same location as the old Dolphin 100amp charger, with the same ventilation from outside as the original Amel setup. 

Even then, the charger/inverter gets damn hot especially when we are cooking and the induction, microwave and boiler are drawing tons of current. Or when it's charging at the full 120 amps.

Part of the reason I ask is that the electricians installed the Victron 150/35 MPPT in the same compartment where you installed your charger/inverter (where the main battery switches are) and I'm getting very high temperatures in that closed compartment after a full day's charging. If you've figured out a good cooling solution, I'd rather implement that than try to move my MPPT!

I was considering adding a little timer controlled 24v fan on the vent in the battery compartment and connecting the two compartments, but haven't for two reasons: (1) Amel kept the two compartments isolated. I am loathe to violate that as they probably did that for a reason (2) The fan is just another part to fail and I have enough things to keep up with already! 


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Scott SV Tengah
 

I guess this is a reminder that I still owe the group my writeup. :)

Oliver, how do you vent the compartment where you've installed the Victron 24/5000/120 inverter/charger? I mounted mine in the engine compartment (connected with the recommended 2x pair of 50mm2 wires - not 95mm2 as I previously mentioned) in the same location as the old Dolphin 100amp charger, with the same ventilation from outside as the original Amel setup. 

Even then, the charger/inverter gets damn hot especially when we are cooking and the induction, microwave and boiler are drawing tons of current. Or when it's charging at the full 120 amps.

Part of the reason I ask is that the electricians installed the Victron 150/35 MPPT in the same compartment where you installed your charger/inverter (where the main battery switches are) and I'm getting very high temperatures in that closed compartment after a full day's charging. If you've figured out a good cooling solution, I'd rather implement that than try to move my MPPT!

I was considering adding a little timer controlled 24v fan on the vent in the battery compartment and connecting the two compartments, but haven't for two reasons: (1) Amel kept the two compartments isolated. I am loathe to violate that as they probably did that for a reason (2) The fan is just another part to fail and I have enough things to keep up with already! 


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica
 

Yes, ofcourse, we are anchored behind Culatra Island in the Faro destrict. Algarve

You can eMail us by using our address from our page.

VelaNautica.org

Oliver from Vela Nautica

A54#39

Portugal

Sent from my Huawei Mobile


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Amel is going lithium
From: Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
CC:


Oliver,

 

This is very interesting. We are presently just across the Guadiana River near Ayamonte in Spain, so if you are in the south of Portugal would it be possible to meet up so we can learn more from you?

 

Cheers,

Paul

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica
Sent: 20 August 2019 11:11
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Amel is going lithium

 

Hello,

I went lithium with my A54 and use it since about 10 month now.
Its an 100% improvement to our Vela Nautica since we live long term on her and most times anchored.
Since then our generator times decreased to 25% compared to before lithium times while we use more energy.
Since then we live like having shore power all the time.
I started to describe the process on:

https://velanautica.org/vela-nautica-goes-lithium/

Since its to much to show it here.

Shortly I am going to show more details about every single unit we needed to change to get the most out of it.

As a resumee I must say its one of the best things to do if you liveaboard but there are many pitfalls. There are not many competent partners to help and most sell standard equipment and you wont get the best.

Oliver from Vela Nautica

A54#39

Portugal



Sent from my Huawei Mobile



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Amel is going lithium
From: CW Bill Rouse
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
CC:


Everyone,

 

You know how cationary I have been regarding Lithium based electrical systems onboard an Amel. I had one client who had serious issues because the source he used failed to install all needed devices and failed to correctly setup the devices installed.

 

BUT, as technology evolves, so should opinions.

 

Although I am proceeding cautiously, I am currently working with several recommended marine power supply companies that not only supply lithium-ion batteries, but also supply all  the other devices, which must be changed in an Amel, coupled with expert support. One of these is located in Europe another in the USA, and the third in the Caribbean. 

 

My hope is to within 30 days have a basic package assorted and spect'd and to have optional add-ons like different sized Victron charger/inverters and possibly electric cooking devices. The future is exciting.

 

When the above sourcing and specifications project is completed, I will release the package here on the AYOG. I will also separately notify my Amel Yacht School clients via email of preferential ordering and support.

 

I want to especially thank Scott Nguyen, Amel 54 TENGAH Hull#69, for the research he shared with me 3 months ago.

 

Best,

 

CW Bill Rouse

720 Winnie St

Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

 

 

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 12:31 PM ofer magen <ofermagen@...> wrote:

Hi Joerg, 

Can you please send a photo of the installation of the super wind? 

Thanks, 

Ofer Magen

Alba A54 160 

Datcha area Turkey 


--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

Andrew & Kate Lamb
 

Hi Oliver

Lots of interesting and useful information- you hinted in your video about the reasoning of using a single battery management system rather than each battery having an integrated BMS I am keen to understand more about this.

Andrew
Ronpische 
SM472

Canet-en-Roussillon 


From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica <oliver.henrichsen@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 11:10 am
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Amel is going lithium
 
Hello,

I went lithium with my A54 and use it since about 10 month now.
Its an 100% improvement to our Vela Nautica since we live long term on her and most times anchored.
Since then our generator times decreased to 25% compared to before lithium times while we use more energy.
Since then we live like having shore power all the time.
I started to describe the process on:

https://velanautica.org/vela-nautica-goes-lithium/

Since its to much to show it here.

Shortly I am going to show more details about every single unit we needed to change to get the most out of it.

As a resumee I must say its one of the best things to do if you liveaboard but there are many pitfalls. There are not many competent partners to help and most sell standard equipment and you wont get the best.

Oliver from Vela Nautica

A54#39

Portugal



Sent from my Huawei Mobile


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Amel is going lithium
From: CW Bill Rouse
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
CC:


Everyone,

You know how cationary I have been regarding Lithium based electrical systems onboard an Amel. I had one client who had serious issues because the source he used failed to install all needed devices and failed to correctly setup the devices installed.

BUT, as technology evolves, so should opinions.

Although I am proceeding cautiously, I am currently working with several recommended marine power supply companies that not only supply lithium-ion batteries, but also supply all  the other devices, which must be changed in an Amel, coupled with expert support. One of these is located in Europe another in the USA, and the third in the Caribbean. 

My hope is to within 30 days have a basic package assorted and spect'd and to have optional add-ons like different sized Victron charger/inverters and possibly electric cooking devices. The future is exciting.

When the above sourcing and specifications project is completed, I will release the package here on the AYOG. I will also separately notify my Amel Yacht School clients via email of preferential ordering and support.

I want to especially thank Scott Nguyen, Amel 54 TENGAH Hull#69, for the research he shared with me 3 months ago.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970



On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 12:31 PM ofer magen <ofermagen@...> wrote:
Hi Joerg, 
Can you please send a photo of the installation of the super wind? 
Thanks, 

Ofer Magen
Alba A54 160 
Datcha area Turkey 

Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown
 

Oliver,

 

This is very interesting. We are presently just across the Guadiana River near Ayamonte in Spain, so if you are in the south of Portugal would it be possible to meet up so we can learn more from you?

 

Cheers,

Paul

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica
Sent: 20 August 2019 11:11
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Amel is going lithium

 

Hello,

I went lithium with my A54 and use it since about 10 month now.
Its an 100% improvement to our Vela Nautica since we live long term on her and most times anchored.
Since then our generator times decreased to 25% compared to before lithium times while we use more energy.
Since then we live like having shore power all the time.
I started to describe the process on:

https://velanautica.org/vela-nautica-goes-lithium/

Since its to much to show it here.

Shortly I am going to show more details about every single unit we needed to change to get the most out of it.

As a resumee I must say its one of the best things to do if you liveaboard but there are many pitfalls. There are not many competent partners to help and most sell standard equipment and you wont get the best.

Oliver from Vela Nautica

A54#39

Portugal



Sent from my Huawei Mobile



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Amel is going lithium
From: CW Bill Rouse
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
CC:


Everyone,

 

You know how cationary I have been regarding Lithium based electrical systems onboard an Amel. I had one client who had serious issues because the source he used failed to install all needed devices and failed to correctly setup the devices installed.

 

BUT, as technology evolves, so should opinions.

 

Although I am proceeding cautiously, I am currently working with several recommended marine power supply companies that not only supply lithium-ion batteries, but also supply all  the other devices, which must be changed in an Amel, coupled with expert support. One of these is located in Europe another in the USA, and the third in the Caribbean. 

 

My hope is to within 30 days have a basic package assorted and spect'd and to have optional add-ons like different sized Victron charger/inverters and possibly electric cooking devices. The future is exciting.

 

When the above sourcing and specifications project is completed, I will release the package here on the AYOG. I will also separately notify my Amel Yacht School clients via email of preferential ordering and support.

 

I want to especially thank Scott Nguyen, Amel 54 TENGAH Hull#69, for the research he shared with me 3 months ago.

 

Best,

 

CW Bill Rouse

720 Winnie St

Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

 

 

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 12:31 PM ofer magen <ofermagen@...> wrote:

Hi Joerg, 

Can you please send a photo of the installation of the super wind? 

Thanks, 

Ofer Magen

Alba A54 160 

Datcha area Turkey 


--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica
 

Hello,

I went lithium with my A54 and use it since about 10 month now.
Its an 100% improvement to our Vela Nautica since we live long term on her and most times anchored.
Since then our generator times decreased to 25% compared to before lithium times while we use more energy.
Since then we live like having shore power all the time.
I started to describe the process on:

https://velanautica.org/vela-nautica-goes-lithium/

Since its to much to show it here.

Shortly I am going to show more details about every single unit we needed to change to get the most out of it.

As a resumee I must say its one of the best things to do if you liveaboard but there are many pitfalls. There are not many competent partners to help and most sell standard equipment and you wont get the best.

Oliver from Vela Nautica

A54#39

Portugal



Sent from my Huawei Mobile


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Amel is going lithium
From: CW Bill Rouse
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
CC:


Everyone,

You know how cationary I have been regarding Lithium based electrical systems onboard an Amel. I had one client who had serious issues because the source he used failed to install all needed devices and failed to correctly setup the devices installed.

BUT, as technology evolves, so should opinions.

Although I am proceeding cautiously, I am currently working with several recommended marine power supply companies that not only supply lithium-ion batteries, but also supply all  the other devices, which must be changed in an Amel, coupled with expert support. One of these is located in Europe another in the USA, and the third in the Caribbean. 

My hope is to within 30 days have a basic package assorted and spect'd and to have optional add-ons like different sized Victron charger/inverters and possibly electric cooking devices. The future is exciting.

When the above sourcing and specifications project is completed, I will release the package here on the AYOG. I will also separately notify my Amel Yacht School clients via email of preferential ordering and support.

I want to especially thank Scott Nguyen, Amel 54 TENGAH Hull#69, for the research he shared with me 3 months ago.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970



On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 12:31 PM ofer magen <ofermagen@...> wrote:
Hi Joerg, 
Can you please send a photo of the installation of the super wind? 
Thanks, 

Ofer Magen
Alba A54 160 
Datcha area Turkey 

Teun BAAS
 

Last year I paid about EURO2,500 via a NEW CALEDONIA dealer plus installation.

Can confirm NO noise; NO vibration at all – it is mounted on the solar arch.

 

Best Regards Teun

SV AMELIT  A54  #128

 

PORT VILA  VANUATU

August 16, 2019 14:29:03

 

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joerg Esdorn via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2019 16:34
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Amel is going lithium

 

I don’t know current pricing.  The generator and mizzen attachment was about 3K 2 years ago but I believe prices have gone up.  Definitely cheaper to have more solar but I like the mix of power sources.   Cheers. Joerg 

Paul Brown
 

Thanks Joerg 




On 14 Aug 2019, at 7:34 am, Joerg Esdorn via Groups.Io <jhe1313@...> wrote:

I don’t know current pricing.  The generator and mizzen attachment was about 3K 2 years ago but I believe prices have gone up.  Definitely cheaper to have more solar but I like the mix of power sources.   Cheers. Joerg 

Joerg Esdorn
 

I don’t know current pricing.  The generator and mizzen attachment was about 3K 2 years ago but I believe prices have gone up.  Definitely cheaper to have more solar but I like the mix of power sources.   Cheers. Joerg 

Stephen Davis
 

Thanks Bill. My batteries are near the end of there life, and I’m interested in this upgrade. 

Steve
Aloha SM 72
Hawaii

On Aug 13, 2019, at 08:06, Joerg Esdorn via Groups.Io <jhe1313@...> wrote:

I don’t know off the top of my head but there is an output curve on their website which is pretty good.  The big benefit is that it’s running all the time when you’re in 7 knots apparent or more.  So I get 50 Ah per day or more quite often.  It’s great when you are sailing on a reach or upwind.   Not so great downwind in Italy in August.  

Paul Brown
 

Sounds very effective, could I ask the total cost?
Regards Paul 


On 13 Aug 2019, at 8:06 pm, Joerg Esdorn via Groups.Io <jhe1313@...> wrote:

I don’t know off the top of my head but there is an output curve on their website which is pretty good.  The big benefit is that it’s running all the time when you’re in 7 knots apparent or more.  So I get 50 Ah per day or more quite often.  It’s great when you are sailing on a reach or upwind.   Not so great downwind in Italy in August.  

Joerg Esdorn
 

I don’t know off the top of my head but there is an output curve on their website which is pretty good.  The big benefit is that it’s running all the time when you’re in 7 knots apparent or more.  So I get 50 Ah per day or more quite often.  It’s great when you are sailing on a reach or upwind.   Not so great downwind in Italy in August.  

 

Everyone,

You know how cationary I have been regarding Lithium based electrical systems onboard an Amel. I had one client who had serious issues because the source he used failed to install all needed devices and failed to correctly setup the devices installed.

BUT, as technology evolves, so should opinions.

Although I am proceeding cautiously, I am currently working with several recommended marine power supply companies that not only supply lithium-ion batteries, but also supply all  the other devices, which must be changed in an Amel, coupled with expert support. One of these is located in Europe another in the USA, and the third in the Caribbean. 

My hope is to within 30 days have a basic package assorted and spect'd and to have optional add-ons like different sized Victron charger/inverters and possibly electric cooking devices. The future is exciting.

When the above sourcing and specifications project is completed, I will release the package here on the AYOG. I will also separately notify my Amel Yacht School clients via email of preferential ordering and support.

I want to especially thank Scott Nguyen, Amel 54 TENGAH Hull#69, for the research he shared with me 3 months ago.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970



On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 12:31 PM ofer magen <ofermagen@...> wrote:
Hi Joerg, 
Can you please send a photo of the installation of the super wind? 
Thanks, 

Ofer Magen
Alba A54 160 
Datcha area Turkey