Topics

Upper C-Drive oil leak

Eamonn Washington
 

Hi

the problem was the upper shaft seal.  The correct size for a Super Maramu is 60-90-8 (not -10).

This was difficult to fix.  Due to rusting together of parts inside the coupling, the old part with the seal had to be soaked for a couple of days in WD40 and then taken out under pressure in a workshop.  14 hours work for a mechanic.

Moral: It would have been a lot cheaper to fit a rope cutter.

Eamonn Washington
Travel Bug
Super Maramu #151
Currently in Alghero, Sardinia, Italy.

Craig & Katherine Briggs SN 68 Sangaris Tropic Isle Harbor, FL
 

Hi Eamonn,
    Glad you found the leak.  Yes, the 60-90-10 is a generic rotary shaft seal (aka lip seal), any brand is fine like SKF, Parker Hannefin, etc. and no, no special features are needed (ie., a stainless steel garter spring is not needed). You can get either a single lip or a double lip if that's all they've got (the 2nd lip is just a dirt barrier and can't hurt, but is not needed here). 
This can most certainly be done in the water. 
    You may not have much success with the vacuum oil pump, other then emptying the reservoir, which you can do, perhaps more easily, by removing the reservoir's bottom hose from the C-drive's housing and draining the oil into a container. There will still be some dripping when you remove the old seal so just bunch some rags below it.
    Hope I didn't put you off with talk of hand sledge and chisels-as-wedges - this is really a pretty easy job. You might want to see if it's in your DIY comfort zone by loosening the bolts on your Vetus coupling and seeing if the coupling is free to slide a fraction fore-and-aft on the C-drive shaft. That's half the battle. If it's free, then loosen the metal retaining ring that sits outside of the lip seal - it's got a small bolt clamping it to the shaft.  If that wiggles free you're good to go. If those are frozen, maybe go ahead with your mechanic.
    "Scooting" the engine back is just removing the four engine mounting bolts - no need to remove shift, throttle, fuel, water, or air connections - just four bolts. You'll want to use long extensions on your socket wrench and an "old man" extension pipe for the ratchet handle to give more leverage.
    Then run a stout line between you primaries and through the engine's lifting ring, apply some tension to unweight the engine (don't pick it up - just unweight it), "scoot" it back and ... Bob's your Uncle.
The whole project should take 3 hours and 47 minutes. 😜
Good luck with it!
Craig SN68 Sangaris

Eamonn Washington
 

Many thanks for all the hints and suggestions. The oil leak is slower than I had said; about a fifth of the oil between the Max and Min mark leaked and it drips a drop every 3 or 4 hours when the engine is off.  I identified the source of the leak as being between the part (coupling?) that you can rotate by hand when in neutral between the reverse gearbox and the C-drive, right against the C-drive.

Craig, it does sound like the upper seal.  If so I would need a mechanic as scooting the engine back a bit is beyond my capabilities.  Can this be done with the boat in the water?  (I do have a vacuum oil pump.)  Will any “60-90-10 single lip rotary shaft seal” do, or are there additional requirements when ordering it?

This year, my fifth of SM ownership, has had more things go wrong than previous years despite a fairly full preventative maintenance program.  8 pumps failed or required major service since April, as well as a major generator failure.  I do sometimes ask myself, when will it all end?

Eamonn Washington
Travel Bug
Super Maramu #151
Currently in Calasetta, Sardinia, Italy.

Eamonn Washington
 

Many thanks for all of the suggestions and hints.  The oil leaks slower than I said and a drip every 4 hours or so also comes out when the engine is off.  The total leak in 10 days is about a fifth of the way between the Max and Min marks in the reservoir.  I identified the source of the leak: it is the junction of the part (coupling?) that you can rotate by hand when in neutral between the reverse gearbox and the upper C-drive, right against the C-drive. 

Craig, it sounds like this is the upper shaft seal you mentioned.  The procedure you described (scoot the engine back a bit) is beyond my capabilities, so I will have to get a mechanic.  Can the procedure be done with the boat in the water?  (I have a vacuum pump to suck the oil out.). Is the 60-90-10 seal easy to find? Any additional specifications for it (temperature etc)?  It would have been cheaper to install a rope cutter....

I really appreciate all the help.  This year the maintenance time has been high.  I had 8 pumps fail, needing replacing or servicing, and 2 major problems with the generator, as well as preparing the boat for my first Ocean crossing ever (Atlantic early December), so I have been very busy ... like the rest of you I guess.

Eamonn Washington
Travel Bug
Super Maramu #151
Currently in Calasetta, Sardinia, Italy.

John Clark
 

Hi Eamonn,

   The other replies are correct that there are no connections at the neoprene hose that would leak oil.  I noted in your description that you said the leak rate was "50ml/hr of run time."  I assume that means the oil is leaking only when the drive is engaged.  This tells me it is likely the input shaft seal leaking.  Other sealed points I would expect to leak all the time if comprimised(the drive is always full due to the oil resevoir).
 Why it is leaking remains a question.  Could be a damaged bearing in the drive unit or the drive shaft flexible coupling making the input shaft wander when there is load on it.  

It could also be an older worn shaft seal that just decided to start leaking around the same time.  Anyone else have thoughts?


John
SV Annie SM #37
Brunswick GA

              



On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 12:04 PM Eamonn Washington <eamonn.washington@...> wrote:
A week ago my C-Drive started leaking oil into the engine room.  While doing 1000RPM on the Volvo TDM22 a rope wrapped 20 times around the short shaft of the Maxprop and within seconds stalled the engine.  Then the slow leak started (of the 8L 80W90 oil), where the rubber (neoprene?) hose connects with the floor of the engine room.  About 50ml leaks per hour of running time.  I tightened the 2 upper and 2 lower hose clamps, but it did not stop the leak.

The engine runs fine, the gears work fine.  What can I do to fix the leak and verify there is no other damage?  

Thanks
Eamonn Washington
Travel Bug
Super Maramu #151
Currently in Calasetta, Sardinia, Italy.

Craig & Katherine Briggs SN 68 Sangaris Tropic Isle Harbor, FL
 

The various suggestions to identify the leak are, of course, germane. This does sound to me, though, like the upper shaft seal is leaking - it drips down in a subtle way and it's hard to figure out where the oil is coming from.

It's an easy fix - just detach the drive shaft coupling, scoot the engine back a bit, remove some retaining bits off the shaft (big hand sledges and chisels-as-wedges may help), then pull the old shaft seal and replace - it's a 60-90-10 single lip rotary shaft seal - don't need a stainless steel garter, but do goosh it up with grease. 

Then again, we're all just guessing at the source of the leak :-)
Good luck with it - let us know what you find.

Beers, Craig SN 68 Sangaris Tropic Isle Harbor, FL 

eric freedman
 

Hi Bill,

Paper towels are good. However they also absorb water. If there is some water nearby they will confuse the issue. Oilzorb pads do not absorb water.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2019 4:58 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Upper C-Drive oil leak

 

Or, paper towels.

 

Best,

 

CW Bill Rouse

720 Winnie St

Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

 

 

On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 3:46 PM eric freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:

When I have an unknown leak, I cover the area with oilzorb pads.

and check the engine and tranny every 15 minutes.

It is easier to find the approximate area where the oil is coming using the oil pads.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Will Stout via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2019 3:11 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Upper C-Drive oil leak

 

Eamonn,
I was getting a small amount of oil which would pool (we are talking a thimble full or so) on top of the c-drive.  What I found was two issues:  1)  one of the hose from the reservoir was leaking.  The hose was actually slightly oversized for the nipples on both the c-drive and the reservoir.  A new more flexible hose and tighter clamping resolved the problem.  2) I was also over filling the reservoir.  The C-drive when working heats up quite a bit around 160 degrees and the expansion of the oil was more than the reservoir could hold when filled to the "full" mark and oil would come out the filler cap run down the hose and end up on the top of the c-drive.  I have started keeping my oil level closer to the add oil mark and have not had the problem re-occur.  

However, when your engine stalled you  applied a lot of force to the c-drive.  I am sure you know this.  If my simple answers above don't help.   Have you tried just tightening all the bolts that hold the unit together?  If you are not getting sea water into the reservoir it might be that snugging things up might help.  That C-drive is a very robust unit and I believe you would be more likely to damage your transmission or engine than the c-drive with a stall as you described.  I would think you could see the leak if the seal was leaking inside the engine room.

Good Luck,

Will Stout
SM # 180, Anni Bea True
For sale in Annapolis, MD

 

Or, paper towels.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970



On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 3:46 PM eric freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:

When I have an unknown leak, I cover the area with oilzorb pads.

and check the engine and tranny every 15 minutes.

It is easier to find the approximate area where the oil is coming using the oil pads.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Will Stout via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2019 3:11 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Upper C-Drive oil leak

 

Eamonn,
I was getting a small amount of oil which would pool (we are talking a thimble full or so) on top of the c-drive.  What I found was two issues:  1)  one of the hose from the reservoir was leaking.  The hose was actually slightly oversized for the nipples on both the c-drive and the reservoir.  A new more flexible hose and tighter clamping resolved the problem.  2) I was also over filling the reservoir.  The C-drive when working heats up quite a bit around 160 degrees and the expansion of the oil was more than the reservoir could hold when filled to the "full" mark and oil would come out the filler cap run down the hose and end up on the top of the c-drive.  I have started keeping my oil level closer to the add oil mark and have not had the problem re-occur.  

However, when your engine stalled you  applied a lot of force to the c-drive.  I am sure you know this.  If my simple answers above don't help.   Have you tried just tightening all the bolts that hold the unit together?  If you are not getting sea water into the reservoir it might be that snugging things up might help.  That C-drive is a very robust unit and I believe you would be more likely to damage your transmission or engine than the c-drive with a stall as you described.  I would think you could see the leak if the seal was leaking inside the engine room.

Good Luck,

Will Stout
SM # 180, Anni Bea True
For sale in Annapolis, MD

eric freedman
 

When I have an unknown leak, I cover the area with oilzorb pads.

and check the engine and tranny every 15 minutes.

It is easier to find the approximate area where the oil is coming using the oil pads.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Will Stout via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2019 3:11 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Upper C-Drive oil leak

 

Eamonn,
I was getting a small amount of oil which would pool (we are talking a thimble full or so) on top of the c-drive.  What I found was two issues:  1)  one of the hose from the reservoir was leaking.  The hose was actually slightly oversized for the nipples on both the c-drive and the reservoir.  A new more flexible hose and tighter clamping resolved the problem.  2) I was also over filling the reservoir.  The C-drive when working heats up quite a bit around 160 degrees and the expansion of the oil was more than the reservoir could hold when filled to the "full" mark and oil would come out the filler cap run down the hose and end up on the top of the c-drive.  I have started keeping my oil level closer to the add oil mark and have not had the problem re-occur.  

However, when your engine stalled you  applied a lot of force to the c-drive.  I am sure you know this.  If my simple answers above don't help.   Have you tried just tightening all the bolts that hold the unit together?  If you are not getting sea water into the reservoir it might be that snugging things up might help.  That C-drive is a very robust unit and I believe you would be more likely to damage your transmission or engine than the c-drive with a stall as you described.  I would think you could see the leak if the seal was leaking inside the engine room.

Good Luck,

Will Stout
SM # 180, Anni Bea True
For sale in Annapolis, MD

Will Stout <tango708@...>
 

Eamonn,
I was getting a small amount of oil which would pool (we are talking a thimble full or so) on top of the c-drive.  What I found was two issues:  1)  one of the hose from the reservoir was leaking.  The hose was actually slightly oversized for the nipples on both the c-drive and the reservoir.  A new more flexible hose and tighter clamping resolved the problem.  2) I was also over filling the reservoir.  The C-drive when working heats up quite a bit around 160 degrees and the expansion of the oil was more than the reservoir could hold when filled to the "full" mark and oil would come out the filler cap run down the hose and end up on the top of the c-drive.  I have started keeping my oil level closer to the add oil mark and have not had the problem re-occur.  

However, when your engine stalled you  applied a lot of force to the c-drive.  I am sure you know this.  If my simple answers above don't help.   Have you tried just tightening all the bolts that hold the unit together?  If you are not getting sea water into the reservoir it might be that snugging things up might help.  That C-drive is a very robust unit and I believe you would be more likely to damage your transmission or engine than the c-drive with a stall as you described.  I would think you could see the leak if the seal was leaking inside the engine room.

Good Luck,

Will Stout
SM # 180, Anni Bea True
For sale in Annapolis, MD

 

Mark is right-on. If the leak is NOT coming from the reservoir return hose and leaking down the side of the C-Drive, my guess is it is a seal or gasket, which will mean disassembly.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970



On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 12:10 PM Mark McGovern <mfmcgovern@...> wrote:
Eamonn,

I am by no means an expert on this but I'm pretty sure that the rubber sleeve's purpose is to keep seawater out not to keep oil in so tightening those hose clamps should not stop an oil leak. Check this drawing of the C-Drive and you will see what I mean:  https://amelyachtowners.groups.io/g/main/photo/84454/12?p=Name,,c-drive,20,1,0,0

If you are sure it's oil and not seawater look for another source of the leak.

--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA

Mark McGovern
 

Eamonn,

I am by no means an expert on this but I'm pretty sure that the rubber sleeve's purpose is to keep seawater out not to keep oil in so tightening those hose clamps should not stop an oil leak. Check this drawing of the C-Drive and you will see what I mean:  https://amelyachtowners.groups.io/g/main/photo/84454/12?p=Name,,c-drive,20,1,0,0

If you are sure it's oil and not seawater look for another source of the leak.

--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA

Eamonn Washington
 

A week ago my C-Drive started leaking oil into the engine room.  While doing 1000RPM on the Volvo TDM22 a rope wrapped 20 times around the short shaft of the Maxprop and within seconds stalled the engine.  Then the slow leak started (of the 8L 80W90 oil), where the rubber (neoprene?) hose connects with the floor of the engine room.  About 50ml leaks per hour of running time.  I tightened the 2 upper and 2 lower hose clamps, but it did not stop the leak.

The engine runs fine, the gears work fine.  What can I do to fix the leak and verify there is no other damage?  

Thanks
Eamonn Washington
Travel Bug
Super Maramu #151
Currently in Calasetta, Sardinia, Italy.