Topics

Forward Looking Sonar


karkauai
 

I had the EchoPilot 2-D on my boat when purchased 10 years ago.  I found it of little use because it only sees a little over a boat length ahead when you really need it in water less than 4M deep.  In muddy water if you are looking for a channel, it only sees directly in front of the boat.  You have to turn the boat in hopes if identifying deeper water.  I was rarely successful, and was as likely to stumble on the channel as find it with the sonar.
The transducer has since failed.  I’m waiting until the 3D units get better and cheaper before I replace it.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
SN243

On Aug 20, 2019, at 11:34 AM, Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica <oliver.henrichsen@...> wrote:

Hi Scott,

To place the charger in the engineroom has some downsides:
- hunidity
- heat
- limited space so probably the charger is mounted sideways what lowers airflow.
- long wires

I customized widened the switch area and drilled ventilation holes to the alley.
I install 120mm thermocontrolled fans with heat alarms to blow fresh air into the cabinet.

The 120A5000W fits vertical.

The lifepo is smaller than batteries before with same capacity so i could install a new separation.

The starter batt is now behind the onan in the engine room.

No more dirty lead in the cabin. Hydrogen Should not be an issue as most other yachts place the starter batt around the engine room.

Oliver from Vela Nautica

A54#39

Portugal

Sent from my Huawei Mobile


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Amel is going lithium
From: Scott SV Tengah
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
CC:


I guess this is a reminder that I still owe the group my writeup. :)

Oliver, how do you vent the compartment where you've installed the Victron 24/5000/120 inverter/charger? I mounted mine in the engine compartment (connected with the recommended 2x pair of 50mm2 wires - not 95mm2 as I previously mentioned) in the same location as the old Dolphin 100amp charger, with the same ventilation from outside as the original Amel setup. 

Even then, the charger/inverter gets damn hot especially when we are cooking and the induction, microwave and boiler are drawing tons of current. Or when it's charging at the full 120 amps.

Part of the reason I ask is that the electricians installed the Victron 150/35 MPPT in the same compartment where you installed your charger/inverter (where the main battery switches are) and I'm getting very high temperatures in that closed compartment after a full day's charging. If you've figured out a good cooling solution, I'd rather implement that than try to move my MPPT!

I was considering adding a little timer controlled 24v fan on the vent in the battery compartment and connecting the two compartments, but haven't for two reasons: (1) Amel kept the two compartments isolated. I am loathe to violate that as they probably did that for a reason (2) The fan is just another part to fail and I have enough things to keep up with already! 


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Ken Powers SV Aquarius
 

I think the EchoPilot 2D is AWESOME. Great performance for a
reasonable price. Yes, You can say, "O in a particular situation it
didn't work for me, so for that reason I'm going to wait til the price
to come down on the next best thing.... BUT, that's like saying "I
aint going to buy a VHF radio until I can get one for a dollar that
has a range of 50 miles." If you're leaving on a circumnavigation
now, in my opinion, you need a forward looking sonar on your boat...
And, if I would own an insurance company, I wouldn't insure a boat
sailing without a forward looking sonar. Yes, 3D would be better,
but 2 D can save your boat... AND YES EchoPilot 2D did help Aquarius
from hitting the reef in French Poly.

Ken Powers
Aquarius
Currently in Indonesia

On 8/20/19, karkauai via Groups.Io <karkauai=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I had the EchoPilot 2-D on my boat when purchased 10 years ago. I found it
of little use because it only sees a little over a boat length ahead when
you really need it in water less than 4M deep. In muddy water if you are
looking for a channel, it only sees directly in front of the boat. You have
to turn the boat in hopes if identifying deeper water. I was rarely
successful, and was as likely to stumble on the channel as find it with the
sonar.
The transducer has since failed. I’m waiting until the 3D units get better
and cheaper before I replace it.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
SN243

On Aug 20, 2019, at 11:34 AM, Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica
<oliver.henrichsen@...> wrote:

Hi Scott,

To place the charger in the engineroom has some downsides:
- hunidity
- heat
- limited space so probably the charger is mounted sideways what lowers
airflow.
- long wires

I customized widened the switch area and drilled ventilation holes to the
alley.
I install 120mm thermocontrolled fans with heat alarms to blow fresh air
into the cabinet.

The 120A5000W fits vertical.

The lifepo is smaller than batteries before with same capacity so i could
install a new separation.

The starter batt is now behind the onan in the engine room.

No more dirty lead in the cabin. Hydrogen Should not be an issue as most
other yachts place the starter batt around the engine room.

Oliver from Vela Nautica

A54#39

Portugal

Sent from my Huawei Mobile


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Amel is going lithium
From: Scott SV Tengah
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
CC:


I guess this is a reminder that I still owe the group my writeup. :)

Oliver, how do you vent the compartment where you've installed the Victron
24/5000/120 inverter/charger? I mounted mine in the engine compartment
(connected with the recommended 2x pair of 50mm2 wires - not 95mm2 as I
previously mentioned) in the same location as the old Dolphin 100amp
charger, with the same ventilation from outside as the original Amel setup.


Even then, the charger/inverter gets damn hot especially when we are cooking
and the induction, microwave and boiler are drawing tons of current. Or when
it's charging at the full 120 amps.

Part of the reason I ask is that the electricians installed the Victron
150/35 MPPT in the same compartment where you installed your
charger/inverter (where the main battery switches are) and I'm getting very
high temperatures in that closed compartment after a full day's charging. If
you've figured out a good cooling solution, I'd rather implement that than
try to move my MPPT!

I was considering adding a little timer controlled 24v fan on the vent in
the battery compartment and connecting the two compartments, but haven't for
two reasons: (1) Amel kept the two compartments isolated. I am loathe to
violate that as they probably did that for a reason (2) The fan is just
another part to fail and I have enough things to keep up with already!


--
Scott
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com




Ken Powers SV Aquarius
 

And one more thing... "it only sees a little over a boat length"
This statement is completely false..... Maybe this is true in 4
meters, but in 4 meters (2 meter under your keel) you should not be
moving very fast, maybe 1 knot or so unless you have local knowledge.
I have found the EchoPilot a big help and I can see in front of the
boat about 20 meters in this situation... But, in 10 meters, where
you usually drop your anchor you can see out at least 40 to 50 meters,
and in 40 meters you can see a wall coming at you 70 meters or more
before you hit it, giving you plenty of room to slow down if moving 6
kts. And, yes, this did happen to me, because you can't always trust
your charts. Case in point here in Indonesia; Google overlays are a
MUST here anytime you're in less that 100 meters.

But, the statement that you have to weave to see the whole picture of
what is in front of you this is very true, and sometimes you will see
Aquarius doing a circle before dropping the anchor just so I can see
what is around. And, my echoPilot will show me what the bottom of the
anchorage looks like which is very helpful in getting the anchor set
just the way I like it.

I am not a sales person for EchoPilot, but have used one for the past
2.5 years, and I love it. We use it every time we anchor, or moving
through water less than 50 meters unless we know the area well. Which
we rarely do because we are halfway through a one way trip around the
world.

I don't want to seem mean, but when I see a patently false statement,
or a statement that is misleading I have to say something.

Ken Powers
Aquarius
Currently in Indonesia

On 8/20/19, karkauai via Groups.Io <karkauai=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I had the EchoPilot 2-D on my boat when purchased 10 years ago. I found it
of little use because it only sees a little over a boat length ahead when
you really need it in water less than 4M deep. In muddy water if you are
looking for a channel, it only sees directly in front of the boat. You have
to turn the boat in hopes if identifying deeper water. I was rarely
successful, and was as likely to stumble on the channel as find it with the
sonar.
The transducer has since failed. I’m waiting until the 3D units get better
and cheaper before I replace it.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
SN243

On Aug 20, 2019, at 11:34 AM, Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica
<oliver.henrichsen@...> wrote:

Hi Scott,

To place the charger in the engineroom has some downsides:
- hunidity
- heat
- limited space so probably the charger is mounted sideways what lowers
airflow.
- long wires

I customized widened the switch area and drilled ventilation holes to the
alley.
I install 120mm thermocontrolled fans with heat alarms to blow fresh air
into the cabinet.

The 120A5000W fits vertical.

The lifepo is smaller than batteries before with same capacity so i could
install a new separation.

The starter batt is now behind the onan in the engine room.

No more dirty lead in the cabin. Hydrogen Should not be an issue as most
other yachts place the starter batt around the engine room.

Oliver from Vela Nautica

A54#39

Portugal

Sent from my Huawei Mobile


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Amel is going lithium
From: Scott SV Tengah
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
CC:


I guess this is a reminder that I still owe the group my writeup. :)

Oliver, how do you vent the compartment where you've installed the Victron
24/5000/120 inverter/charger? I mounted mine in the engine compartment
(connected with the recommended 2x pair of 50mm2 wires - not 95mm2 as I
previously mentioned) in the same location as the old Dolphin 100amp
charger, with the same ventilation from outside as the original Amel setup.


Even then, the charger/inverter gets damn hot especially when we are cooking
and the induction, microwave and boiler are drawing tons of current. Or when
it's charging at the full 120 amps.

Part of the reason I ask is that the electricians installed the Victron
150/35 MPPT in the same compartment where you installed your
charger/inverter (where the main battery switches are) and I'm getting very
high temperatures in that closed compartment after a full day's charging. If
you've figured out a good cooling solution, I'd rather implement that than
try to move my MPPT!

I was considering adding a little timer controlled 24v fan on the vent in
the battery compartment and connecting the two compartments, but haven't for
two reasons: (1) Amel kept the two compartments isolated. I am loathe to
violate that as they probably did that for a reason (2) The fan is just
another part to fail and I have enough things to keep up with already!


--
Scott
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com




Scott SV Tengah
 

We have the Interphase forward looking sonar on our A54 and use it often. It's not perfect, but definitely useful.

As Ken noted, we often use it to scope out the surrounding depths to account for any swinging. And more than once it has showed us that the charts aren't perfect and given us time to go astern hard to avoid a collision with an uncharted obstacle.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Patrick McAneny
 

When we replaced all our electronic due to lightning damage ,we went with the latest B&G equipment,including forward looking sonar. We had Interphase prior and for me it was like trying to read a ultrasound . The B&G sonar sends false images of things that do not exist ,with the bottom going up and down and what looks like walls showing and then disappearing . These false signals have instilled no confidence to the point I never turn it on and at this point I consider a big waste of money. It was professionally installed and I have spoken to the installer as well as B&G reps. at the boat show , I have gotten no answers . I got to the point that I assume this is the state of the art ,when it comes to sonar. 
But after reading what a few of you have said about your sonar,which are older than mine ,I am convinced that something is wrong with my unit. Does anyone have B&G forward looking sonar ,how is it working for you, false images ?
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...>
To: main <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Aug 21, 2019 1:36 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Forward Looking Sonar

We have the Interphase forward looking sonar on our A54 and use it often. It's not perfect, but definitely useful.

As Ken noted, we often use it to scope out the surrounding depths to account for any swinging. And more than once it has showed us that the charts aren't perfect and given us time to go astern hard to avoid a collision with an uncharted obstacle.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Stefano Biffi
 

I have ZEUS 2 With foward looking, works nice, helpful in low water. During the docking I can estimate how deep is below and how far is the other lip of the Harbour. Never used between submerged rocks, till now. 

Stefano
N’EVEREST Super Maramu 185
Italy 

Il giorno 21 ago 2019, alle ore 16:02, Patrick McAneny via Groups.Io <sailw32@...> ha scritto:

When we replaced all our electronic due to lightning damage ,we went with the latest B&G equipment,including forward looking sonar. We had Interphase prior and for me it was like trying to read a ultrasound . The B&G sonar sends false images of things that do not exist ,with the bottom going up and down and what looks like walls showing and then disappearing . These false signals have instilled no confidence to the point I never turn it on and at this point I consider a big waste of money. It was professionally installed and I have spoken to the installer as well as B&G reps. at the boat show , I have gotten no answers . I got to the point that I assume this is the state of the art ,when it comes to sonar. 
But after reading what a few of you have said about your sonar,which are older than mine ,I am convinced that something is wrong with my unit. Does anyone have B&G forward looking sonar ,how is it working for you, false images ?
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...>
To: main <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Aug 21, 2019 1:36 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Forward Looking Sonar

We have the Interphase forward looking sonar on our A54 and use it often. It's not perfect, but definitely useful.

As Ken noted, we often use it to scope out the surrounding depths to account for any swinging. And more than once it has showed us that the charts aren't perfect and given us time to go astern hard to avoid a collision with an uncharted obstacle.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


karkauai
 

Maybe I should have a look on someone else’s boat that finds it useful. It will take some serious convincing given my past experiences.

I’ve not been in many places where I’m anchoring in 10+ meters thus far, maybe my opinion will change when I get to the Pacific. In clear water we rely heavily on slow speed and eyeball navigation, and travel when the light is good. In muddy water it’s all about going slow and asking for local knowledge. I’ve only run aground twice when I got bad advice from local marina and fisherman, I was going at a snail’s pace and no damage was done.

To say we shouldn’t be insured without forward looking sonar is a bit over the top.

Kent
SM 243
Kristy


Patrick McAneny
 

Stefano , That is the unit I have. Do you not get a lot of false signals ,both vertical and horizontal ? If not then there must be something wrong with my unit.
Thanks,
Pat
SM#123


-----Original Message-----
From: Stefano Biffi <cptbiffi@...>
To: main <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Aug 21, 2019 10:50 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Forward Looking Sonar

I have ZEUS 2 With foward looking, works nice, helpful in low water. During the docking I can estimate how deep is below and how far is the other lip of the Harbour. Never used between submerged rocks, till now. 

Stefano
N’EVEREST Super Maramu 185
Italy 

Il giorno 21 ago 2019, alle ore 16:02, Patrick McAneny via Groups.Io <sailw32@...> ha scritto:

When we replaced all our electronic due to lightning damage ,we went with the latest B&G equipment,including forward looking sonar. We had Interphase prior and for me it was like trying to read a ultrasound . The B&G sonar sends false images of things that do not exist ,with the bottom going up and down and what looks like walls showing and then disappearing . These false signals have instilled no confidence to the point I never turn it on and at this point I consider a big waste of money. It was professionally installed and I have spoken to the installer as well as B&G reps. at the boat show , I have gotten no answers . I got to the point that I assume this is the state of the art ,when it comes to sonar. 
But after reading what a few of you have said about your sonar,which are older than mine ,I am convinced that something is wrong with my unit. Does anyone have B&G forward looking sonar ,how is it working for you, false images ?
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...>
To: main <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Aug 21, 2019 1:36 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Forward Looking Sonar

We have the Interphase forward looking sonar on our A54 and use it often. It's not perfect, but definitely useful.

As Ken noted, we often use it to scope out the surrounding depths to account for any swinging. And more than once it has showed us that the charts aren't perfect and given us time to go astern hard to avoid a collision with an uncharted obstacle.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Alan Leslie
 

Our Interphase unit died....well the transducer did, and we couldn't get one so I installed a B&G Vulcan 7 with ForwardScan in its place.
The ForwardScan is very susceptible to boat movement, I think this is what leads to the "false images" . It seems to work well in calm water and at low speed. If there is any up and down  movement of the boat, the image will not be useful as the device can't compensate for that.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Jose Venegas
 

Patrick,
I installed a B&G sonar and I have similar erratic signals.  I think we need to find out why from B&G.  At anchor, it seems to work fine except that it can be confused by reflections from the chain.  While on the way, it can give you a good signal for a while and the start with total garbage.  Now that I know you have the same problem, I will go back and try to work the kinks with B&G.
I agree with Ken that a forward scanner should be very useful in remote places.

Jose
Ipanema SM278
Boston until October, then is the world.


Patrick McAneny
 

Jose, I agree with Ken as well,that is why I spent probably over $1000. ,I can't remember the exact amount. But for me it has been a total waste of money and would not advise anyone to buy the B&G unit ,unless I find a fix ,if you do please report back. We took video of the erratic images ,maybe we will send it to B&G .
Good Luck,
Pat
SM Shenanigans
Sassafras River, Md.


-----Original Message-----
From: Jose Venegas via Groups.Io <josegvenegas@...>
To: main <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Aug 21, 2019 7:15 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Forward Looking Sonar

Patrick,
I installed a B&G sonar and I have similar erratic signals.  I think we need to find out why from B&G.  At anchor, it seems to work fine except that it can be confused by reflections from the chain.  While on the way, it can give you a good signal for a while and the start with total garbage.  Now that I know you have the same problem, I will go back and try to work the kinks with B&G.
I agree with Ken that a forward scanner should be very useful in remote places.

Jose
Ipanema SM278
Boston until October, then is the world.


Peter de Groot
 

La Querida (SM 207) got the Garmin panoptix 3 months ago
So far so good, but we’re not cruising until fall of 2020, so it’s only seen short trips.
A crew member actually watched the anchor go down on our last overnight excursion
My biggest concern now is the next time we haul out, the transducer is very vulnerable to the lift sling
Has anyone got a better (drier) technique to exchange the transducer with the 40mm plug?

Peter de Groot
Moss Landing, California


Stefano Biffi
 

Normally quiet stable, never gave me wrong. I learned to use pause when I don’t need, long navigation no obstacles, and start  the reading few minutes before the cost line. If I must find a complaint the auto scale feature not ever following approaching the high terrain. Most of the time I have to reduce manually. 

Stefano
N’EVEREST Super Maramu 185
Italy 

Il giorno 21 ago 2019, alle ore 23:56, Patrick McAneny via Groups.Io <sailw32@...> ha scritto:

Stefano , That is the unit I have. Do you not get a lot of false signals ,both vertical and horizontal ? If not then there must be something wrong with my unit.
Thanks,
Pat
SM#123


-----Original Message-----
From: Stefano Biffi <cptbiffi@...>
To: main <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Aug 21, 2019 10:50 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Forward Looking Sonar

I have ZEUS 2 With foward looking, works nice, helpful in low water. During the docking I can estimate how deep is below and how far is the other lip of the Harbour. Never used between submerged rocks, till now. 

Stefano
N’EVEREST Super Maramu 185
Italy 

Il giorno 21 ago 2019, alle ore 16:02, Patrick McAneny via Groups.Io <sailw32@...> ha scritto:

When we replaced all our electronic due to lightning damage ,we went with the latest B&G equipment,including forward looking sonar. We had Interphase prior and for me it was like trying to read a ultrasound . The B&G sonar sends false images of things that do not exist ,with the bottom going up and down and what looks like walls showing and then disappearing . These false signals have instilled no confidence to the point I never turn it on and at this point I consider a big waste of money. It was professionally installed and I have spoken to the installer as well as B&G reps. at the boat show , I have gotten no answers . I got to the point that I assume this is the state of the art ,when it comes to sonar. 
But after reading what a few of you have said about your sonar,which are older than mine ,I am convinced that something is wrong with my unit. Does anyone have B&G forward looking sonar ,how is it working for you, false images ?
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...>
To: main <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Aug 21, 2019 1:36 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Forward Looking Sonar

We have the Interphase forward looking sonar on our A54 and use it often. It's not perfect, but definitely useful.

As Ken noted, we often use it to scope out the surrounding depths to account for any swinging. And more than once it has showed us that the charts aren't perfect and given us time to go astern hard to avoid a collision with an uncharted obstacle.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Joerg Esdorn
 

I have purchased an Echopilot 2D and now the question is where to install it. Amel advises it needs to be installed 1.5 m away from the sonic speed transducer.  They are suggesting 1.5 m forward of that which would put it very far forward in a place where it may come out of the water and contrary to the instructions from Echopilot.  For those who have it installed, where is it installed on your boat?  


Joerg Esdorn
A55 Kincsem
Vigo, Spain