Topics

Insurance in Europe


Matt Salatino
 

Hi All,
We are taking delivery of our new 50, Speed of Life, soon, and are shopping for insurance.
We will be US-flagged, but sailing, La Rochelle to Gibraltar, then throughout the Med.
We’re looking for great service, over lowest rates.
We have 3 or 4 quotes, so far.
We have been warned to avoid Pantaenius USA (different company than Pantaenius UK, who won’t insure us). Y-Yacht also won’t cover a US flagged vessel.
We do have a quote from Topsail (Global Yacht Cover) that is a bit high, but has good reviews.
Can anyone make a recommendation?
We value a company that will work hard to make us whole after a claim, vs one that works equally hard to deny a claim.
BTW, we have not had a claim in 32 years of boat ownership.
Thanks in Advance,

Cindy and Matt
Amel 50
S/V Speed of Life


Mark Erdos
 

Hi Cindy and Matt,

We went through this exercise a few months ago when we moved away from Pantaenius USA. We are BVI flagged and settled with Y-Yacht. I was very impressed with Y-Yacht. I was also impressed with a USA company called Novamar. They are an A-Rated company and have a very good reputation with full time cruisers in the Pacific and Caribbean. I do not know about their coverage for Europe but it's worth asking. We used a USA Broker who underwrites a lot of their policies:

Chris Boome Insurance Agency
LIC# 0A99058
751 Laurel Street #216
San Carlos, CA 94070
O: 650-517-3160 C: 650-464-0728
WWW.CHRISBOOME.COM
E-mail: chris@...


Another company who was also recommended has a bit of a branding problem as they have three names: IMIS - Jackline - Growrie. I understand the company has recently merged and may not be the same company as others who are recommending it think it is. I found them extremely rude and their demands from us prior to a quote were very unrealistic. I did not get a quote and walked away. But, other sailors swear they are great. Perhaps it was the person I was dealing with, who knows. But it might be worth it for you to follow up with them. Hopefully your experience will be better:

https://www.gowrie.com/Marine-Insurance/IMIS.aspx

Hope this helps a bit.


With best regards,

Mark

Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently cruising - Vista Mar, Panama
www.creampuff.us

-----Original Message-----
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Matt Salatino via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2019 6:25 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Insurance in Europe

Hi All,
We are taking delivery of our new 50, Speed of Life, soon, and are shopping for insurance.
We will be US-flagged, but sailing, La Rochelle to Gibraltar, then throughout the Med.
We’re looking for great service, over lowest rates.
We have 3 or 4 quotes, so far.
We have been warned to avoid Pantaenius USA (different company than Pantaenius UK, who won’t insure us). Y-Yacht also won’t cover a US flagged vessel.
We do have a quote from Topsail (Global Yacht Cover) that is a bit high, but has good reviews.
Can anyone make a recommendation?
We value a company that will work hard to make us whole after a claim, vs one that works equally hard to deny a claim.
BTW, we have not had a claim in 32 years of boat ownership.
Thanks in Advance,

Cindy and Matt
Amel 50
S/V Speed of Life


Germain Jean-Pierre
 

Hi Matt,

I used Y Yachts when I was in EU. Their rates went up almost 25% this year, so I’ve changed to a NZ based insurer.

GL

Jean-Pierre Germain, SY Eleuthera SM 007, Fiji
Sent from my iPad

On 24 Aug 2019, at 10:24, Matt Salatino via Groups.Io <helmsmatt=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hi All,
We are taking delivery of our new 50, Speed of Life, soon, and are shopping for insurance.
We will be US-flagged, but sailing, La Rochelle to Gibraltar, then throughout the Med.
We’re looking for great service, over lowest rates.
We have 3 or 4 quotes, so far.
We have been warned to avoid Pantaenius USA (different company than Pantaenius UK, who won’t insure us). Y-Yacht also won’t cover a US flagged vessel.
We do have a quote from Topsail (Global Yacht Cover) that is a bit high, but has good reviews.
Can anyone make a recommendation?
We value a company that will work hard to make us whole after a claim, vs one that works equally hard to deny a claim.
BTW, we have not had a claim in 32 years of boat ownership.
Thanks in Advance,

Cindy and Matt
Amel 50
S/V Speed of Life



karkauai
 

We’ve had the Jackline policy through IMIS, recently bought out by Gowrie group. I’ve dealt with the same contact there since before Gowrie took over. We haven’t had a claim, and haven’t asked about coverage in the Med, but they have been easy to deal with in every regard. Iris now insures her 100 year old wooden catboat with them as well.

It won’t hurt to contact them...
Rachel Sloan
(410) 364-7707
rachel.imis@...

Good luck, stay safe, and have fun with Speed of Life. And don’t sign off as S.O.L. ;-)>

Kent & Iris
S/V Kristy
SM 243

On Aug 23, 2019, at 6:48 PM, Germain Jean-Pierre <jp.germain45@...> wrote:

Hi Matt,

I used Y Yachts when I was in EU. Their rates went up almost 25% this year, so I’ve changed to a NZ based insurer.

GL

Jean-Pierre Germain, SY Eleuthera SM 007, Fiji
On 24 Aug 2019, at 10:24, Matt Salatino via Groups.Io <helmsmatt=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hi All,
We are taking delivery of our new 50, Speed of Life, soon, and are shopping for insurance.
We will be US-flagged, but sailing, La Rochelle to Gibraltar, then throughout the Med.
We’re looking for great service, over lowest rates.
We have 3 or 4 quotes, so far.
We have been warned to avoid Pantaenius USA (different company than Pantaenius UK, who won’t insure us). Y-Yacht also won’t cover a US flagged vessel.
We do have a quote from Topsail (Global Yacht Cover) that is a bit high, but has good reviews.
Can anyone make a recommendation?
We value a company that will work hard to make us whole after a claim, vs one that works equally hard to deny a claim.
BTW, we have not had a claim in 32 years of boat ownership.
Thanks in Advance,

Cindy and Matt
Amel 50
S/V Speed of Life



Gary Wells
 

I guess I've not had the same experience with Pantaenius as some others but for us they have been easy to work with and very responsive to our requests to change cruising grounds. 

I've been fortunate to not have a claim so I can't speak to that end but I have read (here, I think) that their post-lightning-strike service was very good.

I know all I have to do is write an email to them and within a day or two I get a new quote for our cruising grounds when we go from U.S. to Med. to Caribbean (which is now a very pricey market).

Without wanting to start a negative discourse, I would not be a person to warn you against them but rather to give a good in depth look at their merits and the scope of coverage they have.

So far, so good with them and the people I have dealt with have all be friendly and accommodating .. even when I "oopsee'd" and sailed out of my coverage area unknowingly :). 

Gary W.
SM 209, Adagio
Halifax, NS


Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222
 

Yes, my experience with Pantenius is also good.

Quick respond clear , clear conditions of insurance

Fair prices are not cheap .

and in the damages settlement we had a damage 10 years ago and fair .

I don't trust anyone else


Grüße Elja Röllinghoff

SM Balu 222

Kalamata Greece 


Von meinem iPhone gesendet


Patrick McAneny
 

Gary, I concur ,I have had nothing but positive experiences with Pantaenius . Unfortunately I have had now  three claims ,a lightning strike two years ago,they paid every penny ,replaced all the electronics on the boat . Representing me now against Dream Yacht Charters from damage they did to my boat in the Caribbean last winter. They already paid me for all the damages up front, and are pursuing reimbursement from DYC . I got that check within a week of submitting the estimate. Two weeks ago my wind transducer was damaged by lightning ,another claim and they were responsive to that as well ,although we are waiting for the estimate . Can't compare rates ,but mine seems reasonable .
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Wells <gary@...>
To: main <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Aug 24, 2019 7:52 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Insurance in Europe

I guess I've not had the same experience with Pantaenius as some others but for us they have been easy to work with and very responsive to our requests to change cruising grounds. 

I've been fortunate to not have a claim so I can't speak to that end but I have read (here, I think) that their post-lightning-strike service was very good.

I know all I have to do is write an email to them and within a day or two I get a new quote for our cruising grounds when we go from U.S. to Med. to Caribbean (which is now a very pricey market).

Without wanting to start a negative discourse, I would not be a person to warn you against them but rather to give a good in depth look at their merits and the scope of coverage they have.

So far, so good with them and the people I have dealt with have all be friendly and accommodating .. even when I "oopsee'd" and sailed out of my coverage area unknowingly :). 

Gary W.
SM 209, Adagio
Halifax, NS


Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222
 

Yes, my experience with Pantenius is also good.

Quick respond clear , clear conditions of insurance

Fair prices are not cheap .

and in the damages settlement we had a damage 10 years ago and fair .

I don't trust anyone else


Grüße Elja Röllinghoff

SM Balu 222


Von meinem iPhone gesendet


Craig Briggs
 

Hi Matt,
    I think your post is a good example of what Bill Rouse was talking about recently in admonishing negative reviews on this forum. To be "warned to avoid" a vendor without any specifics and without a full story is, frankly, not very meaningful. "War stories", especially about insurance claims, are notoriously one sided.  And the many replies you got lauding Pantaenius USA points that out.  But then we all listen to our mates; we just need to judge when to add that grain of salt.
    There have been many factual posts here about Pantaenius USA's hurricane zone requirements in the Caribbean and Florida being virtually impossible to meet and their breathtaking premium quotes for that region essentially taking them out of that market.
    At the same time there also have been posts about their excellent coverage and very competitive rates for US boats cruising Europe, which I experienced.
    No claims in 32 years, btw, suggests that will be your continuing experience and other replies to your post praising Pantaenius USA should alleviate any concerns about Pantaenius USA's claim service.
Good luck with your shopping.
Craig - SN68 Sangaris


Theo s/v Paloma
 

I'm happy with Novamar. Their prices are competitive. I've used them for three boats, including the one in the S. Pacific. I've had no claims though, ever.

Theo.
s/v Paloma
Amel 50 #18


Matt Salatino
 

This was with Pantaenius USA? I didn’t know they even existed 10 years ago!

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Aug 24, 2019, at 5:46 AM, Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222 <Bijorka@...> wrote:

Yes, my experience with Pantenius is also good.

Quick respond clear , clear conditions of insurance

Fair prices are not cheap .

and in the damages settlement we had a damage 10 years ago and fair .

I don't trust anyone else


Grüße Elja Röllinghoff

SM Balu 222

Kalamata Greece 


Von meinem iPhone gesendet


Matt Salatino
 

Thanks for the valuable feedback. 
This is with Pantaenius USA, and not U.K.?
They are very different companies. 

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Aug 24, 2019, at 6:04 AM, Patrick McAneny via Groups.Io <sailw32@...> wrote:

Gary, I concur ,I have had nothing but positive experiences with Pantaenius . Unfortunately I have had now  three claims ,a lightning strike two years ago,they paid every penny ,replaced all the electronics on the boat . Representing me now against Dream Yacht Charters from damage they did to my boat in the Caribbean last winter. They already paid me for all the damages up front, and are pursuing reimbursement from DYC . I got that check within a week of submitting the estimate. Two weeks ago my wind transducer was damaged by lightning ,another claim and they were responsive to that as well ,although we are waiting for the estimate . Can't compare rates ,but mine seems reasonable .
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Wells <gary@...>
To: main <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Aug 24, 2019 7:52 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Insurance in Europe

I guess I've not had the same experience with Pantaenius as some others but for us they have been easy to work with and very responsive to our requests to change cruising grounds. 

I've been fortunate to not have a claim so I can't speak to that end but I have read (here, I think) that their post-lightning-strike service was very good.

I know all I have to do is write an email to them and within a day or two I get a new quote for our cruising grounds when we go from U.S. to Med. to Caribbean (which is now a very pricey market).

Without wanting to start a negative discourse, I would not be a person to warn you against them but rather to give a good in depth look at their merits and the scope of coverage they have.

So far, so good with them and the people I have dealt with have all be friendly and accommodating .. even when I "oopsee'd" and sailed out of my coverage area unknowingly :). 

Gary W.
SM 209, Adagio
Halifax, NS


Matt Salatino
 

Thanks Craig,
Still trying to confirm if the happily insured are with PAntEnius US or UK. 
I’ve learned they are two different carriers only sharing a common name. Also two different records of satisfaction.  
I will gladly go with Pantaenius US for my European travels if their insurer is indeed the US variety. 
We will have to reassess when we cross the pond. 
Thx again

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Aug 24, 2019, at 7:41 AM, Craig Briggs via Groups.Io <sangaris@...> wrote:

Hi Matt,
    I think your post is a good example of what Bill Rouse was talking about recently in admonishing negative reviews on this forum. To be "warned to avoid" a vendor without any specifics and without a full story is, frankly, not very meaningful. "War stories", especially about insurance claims, are notoriously one sided.  And the many replies you got lauding Pantaenius USA points that out.  But then we all listen to our mates; we just need to judge when to add that grain of salt.
    There have been many factual posts here about Pantaenius USA's hurricane zone requirements in the Caribbean and Florida being virtually impossible to meet and their breathtaking premium quotes for that region essentially taking them out of that market.
    At the same time there also have been posts about their excellent coverage and very competitive rates for US boats cruising Europe, which I experienced.
    No claims in 32 years, btw, suggests that will be your continuing experience and other replies to your post praising Pantaenius USA should alleviate any concerns about Pantaenius USA's claim service.
Good luck with your shopping.
Craig - SN68 Sangaris


Matt Salatino
 

Thanks, Theo. 
I’ll give them a call. 

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Aug 24, 2019, at 8:32 AM, Theo s/v Paloma <sailingpaloma1@...> wrote:

I'm happy with Novamar. Their prices are competitive. I've used them for three boats, including the one in the S. Pacific. I've had no claims though, ever.

Theo.
s/v Paloma
Amel 50 #18


Craig Briggs
 

Hi Matt,
    These insurance companies are more inbred than Hogan's goat, but, yes, I think Pantaenius USA is the happy one - for US boats in Europe or non-tropical storm areas of the US (can't speak to the Pacific). Like virtually all of these companies they are underwritten by pools of international underwriters, and, so, seeking a "US Insurer" isn't really a possibility.  IMIS/Gowrie/Jackline, for example, is underwritten by Markel Insurance Company, a Virginia corporation, but they place their underwriting with dozens of companies, many foreign, like Lloyds of London. Similarly, the various Pantaenius companies are underwritten by pools of underwriters. Basically, they are all marketing arms, packaging up various products for us.
    IMIS, for example, was started by Al Golden, a good friend well known to many in the SSCA. He created the Jackline Policy to meet the needs of the cruising community, of which he is a part and continues to strongly support through SSCA and others - he's pretty much retired now and his son has taken the reins.  All great folks who have a true value added to a nameless cadre of underwriters because they know the market and can make things happen if there's a claim.
    Even the "most American" company for insurance, Boat US, runs their policies through GEICO, but as much as we love their gecco their underwriters are a world-wide group of insurance carriers.
    I've had great experience with Pantaenius USA even though I never had a claim, but they do use non-USA, A-rated underwriters like Lloyds of London and a bunch of others. They do have really helpful agents in the US, like Scott, and that's worth a lot.
    Now, I did have one claim with Pantaenius' parent organization in Germany when I had a lightning strike while my boat was on a freighter (you're not covered by your normal policy if you're being transported - you need a separate policy).  Pantaenius-Germany's service could not have been better and they paid out in full as soon as I got the paper work and quotes submitted. I have no idea who actually supplied the funds for that - it's all behind the scenes in international underwriting.
   So do check to see who the underwriters are for whatever company's name is on your policy and see that they are highly rated. Other than that, you've simply got to judge the credibility of the agent you're dealing with. 
Cheers,
Craig SN68 Sangaris


On Sat, Aug 24, 2019 at 07:42 PM, Matt Salatino wrote:
Thanks Craig,
Still trying to confirm if the happily insured are with PAntEnius US or UK. 
I’ve learned they are two different carriers only sharing a common name. Also two different records of satisfaction.  
I will gladly go with Pantaenius US for my European travels if their insurer is indeed the US variety. 
We will have to reassess when we cross the pond. 
Thx again


Matt Salatino
 

We are all certainly entitled to our own opinions. I have great respect for Bill’s insight and experience. It was hard-earned. 
On the other hand, my background gives me the desire for all available data. 
I agree that there are two sides to every story, and I appreciate that, but I think, in my years on the planet, I’ve been able to glean information from both overly good, and overly bad reviews.  
I believe in sharing experience and information, and let the user sort it to their best ability. 
In my humble opinion, I believe censorship of data, positive, or negative, does a disservice to the community as a whole. 
In my specific case, I’ve heard nothing but positive about Pantaenius UK. Sadly, I’ve read the opposite, too many times, about Pantaenius USA. (Yes, they are great at giving quotes)
Believe me, I want to believe the USA company will give excellent claim service, especially since their quote is the most competitive. I haven’t given up on them yet. 
I’m at the stage in my life, though, where value supersedes price (as evidence of that, we’re buying a new Amel!). So I do want as much information, both positive and negative, to make the best, most informed decision possible. 
I’m sure most of us would too. How can we make educated decisions, with carefully filtered information? Hiding information because it doesn’t meet someone’s particular standard smacks of dishonesty to me. But that’s just my own opinion. You are welcome to disagree. 
Matt Salatino
Amel 50, #27
Speed of Life

On Aug 24, 2019, at 7:41 AM, Craig Briggs via Groups.Io <sangaris@...> wrote:sangaris@...

Hi Matt,
    I think your post is a good example of what Bill Rouse was talking about recently in admonishing negative reviews on this forum. To be "warned to avoid" a vendor without any specifics and without a full story is, frankly, not very meaningful. "War stories", especially about insurance claims, are notoriously one sided.  And the many replies you got lauding Pantaenius USA points that out.  But then we all listen to our mates; we just need to judge when to add that grain of salt.
    There have been many factual posts here about Pantaenius USA's hurricane zone requirements in the Caribbean and Florida being virtually impossible to meet and their breathtaking premium quotes for that region essentially taking them out of that market.
    At the same time there also have been posts about their excellent coverage and very competitive rates for US boats cruising Europe, which I experienced.
    No claims in 32 years, btw, suggests that will be your continuing experience and other replies to your post praising Pantaenius USA should alleviate any concerns about Pantaenius USA's claim service.
Good luck with your shopping.
Craig - SN68 Sangaris


Craig Briggs
 

Hi Matt,
   Agree 100% with your statement that censorship does a disservice to us all and carefully filtered info is not helpful. I think opinions though, be they positive or negative, are much more helpful if they are supported by some facts. So the point I was making was simply that being "warned to avoid" with no facts supporting that opinion didn't seem helpful in making an informed decision - it's kind of like somebody's experience with no information attached. Then again, the venerable Consumer Reports organization gives "Customer Satisfaction" ratings in addition to their factual test-based ratings. However, those are not single data points as are prevalent in forums like this.
   Btw, I forgot to mention in my earlier post that there's an excellent recorded Webinar on buying insurance put on by SSCA that's available on their web site. It was initially developed by Al Golden of IMIS.  Interestingly, Al put me off of Pantaenius many years ago with some fact-based opinion - at the time, the Pantaenius product was a "Named Perils" type of policy (only covering their list of perils, albeit quite comprehensive). His Jackline policy through Markel was an "All-risk" policy that covered any type of loss unless specifically excluded. Being a Broker, he did offer to sell me the Pantaenius policy if I really wanted it - I stuck with Jackline.  Pantaenius switched to "All-risk" a couple of years later and I went there for the savings, so there's another twist available to you; stick with a Broker like IMIS who has a great reputation for service but get the product of the insurer you want. Then again, I've had excellent response from Pantaenius USA (albeit no claims).
  Happy shopping,  Craig


Matt Salatino
 

Craig,
We vemently agree! :-)

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Aug 25, 2019, at 5:20 AM, Craig Briggs via Groups.Io <sangaris@...> wrote:

Hi Matt,
   Agree 100% with your statement that censorship does a disservice to us all and carefully filtered info is not helpful. I think opinions though, be they positive or negative, are much more helpful if they are supported by some facts. So the point I was making was simply that being "warned to avoid" with no facts supporting that opinion didn't seem helpful in making an informed decision - it's kind of like somebody's experience with no information attached. Then again, the venerable Consumer Reports organization gives "Customer Satisfaction" ratings in addition to their factual test-based ratings. However, those are not single data points as are prevalent in forums like this.
   Btw, I forgot to mention in my earlier post that there's an excellent recorded Webinar on buying insurance put on by SSCA that's available on their web site. It was initially developed by Al Golden of IMIS.  Interestingly, Al put me off of Pantaenius many years ago with some fact-based opinion - at the time, the Pantaenius product was a "Named Perils" type of policy (only covering their list of perils, albeit quite comprehensive). His Jackline policy through Markel was an "All-risk" policy that covered any type of loss unless specifically excluded. Being a Broker, he did offer to sell me the Pantaenius policy if I really wanted it - I stuck with Jackline.  Pantaenius switched to "All-risk" a couple of years later and I went there for the savings, so there's another twist available to you; stick with a Broker like IMIS who has a great reputation for service but get the product of the insurer you want. Then again, I've had excellent response from Pantaenius USA (albeit no claims).
  Happy shopping,  Craig


Miles
 

I have also had good experiences with Pantaenius, both Pantaenius US and Pantaenius Europe.  I had Pantaenius Europe from 2000 to 2008.  At that time they would cover me for anywhere in the world except in US waters.  Their rates were much lower than any US company and they had a very good reputation.  I was surprised to hear that they would not insure you.  Did they say why?  Of course my experience with them was 10 years ago.  I currently have Pantaenius USA and I have also had good experiences with them, including a large claim from a hit and run collision while I was on my mooring.

 

Regards and good luck with your insurance,

 

Miles

 

s/y Ladybug, sm216 on mooring Newport, RI


Matt Salatino
 

Pantaenius UK referred us to USA when they saw we were US flagged. 

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Aug 25, 2019, at 7:22 AM, Miles <milesbid@...> wrote:

I have also had good experiences with Pantaenius, both Pantaenius US and Pantaenius Europe.  I had Pantaenius Europe from 2000 to 2008.  At that time they would cover me for anywhere in the world except in US waters.  Their rates were much lower than any US company and they had a very good reputation.  I was surprised to hear that they would not insure you.  Did they say why?  Of course my experience with them was 10 years ago.  I currently have Pantaenius USA and I have also had good experiences with them, including a large claim from a hit and run collision while I was on my mooring.

 

Regards and good luck with your insurance,

 

Miles

 

s/y Ladybug, sm216 on mooring Newport, RI