Topics

Converting my Amel 54 to lithium batteries: what I did, what I like and what I don't like (after one year of full time live aboard use)

islandpearl2_sm2k332
 

Danny

Yes, we have instructed our listing agent in London to take the advert down next week. She is no longer for sale.

These are great boats and fast becoming classics now, and in our case, Island Pearl II has actually remained bubble wrapped in strategic internal places since the day she left the factory, so is in our view totally irreplaceable.

Best regards

Colin
Colin & Lauren Streeter
SV Island Pearl II SM#332
Newport Marina, Brisbane, Australia


On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 2:19 PM Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:

Hi Colin.

Re the sale of Island Pearl. I am not surprised. I looked for any exuse not to sell Ocean Pearl. The reality is they are the most robust and easiest to sail boat available. (In my humble opinion) So unless you intend to totally swallow the anchor stay with Island Pearl. I was seriously considering a step up to the 54 but watching the posts on the forum my opinion that the SM was the ultimate off shore yacht for a couple became solidified. I see them as the culmination of Henri's lifes work.  So I stay where I am.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 27 February 2020 at 15:57 islandpearl2_sm2k332 <colin.d.streeter@...> wrote:

Hi Scott

Thanks again for the tips. The alternator will be my next step after some local testing yes. We are away from the boat down in Sydney for a week, but the Lithium install went perfectly on Tuesday, and Lauren and I are absolutely delighted!!! The 4 x 100amp 24v LifePO4 batteries fit in the 2001 SM 2000 battery compartment perfectly and we have lost at least 150kg of weight, yet to be measured...

Our 2001 SM 2000 has space for 8 house batteries plus start battery (not the enlarged 12 battery bank compartment as on later (2003+?) boats), so this awesome lithium setup would fit in even the very earliest SM's I suspect, and for the first time ever I am now pleased to have the smaller rather than the larger battery space.

Regarding the sale of our boat, we have Island Pearl II listed for sale but had not yet got around to putting her up for sale on the Amel Owners site. However, we are now seriously considering the wisdom of selling as we watch the increasing global panic related to coronavirus around the globe. We miss our sailing days already, and so we are simply not negotiable right now and may still remove her from the market depending on how world affairs turn out. She is far too nice to take a huge loss on after all the investment in upgrades we have made if there remains a chance that we will sail again.

Glad to hear you guys are soon heading over the Pacific. Best wishes for that trip and we do hope to catch up again when you reach us here on the other side.

Best Regards

Colin & Lauren Streeter
SV Island Pearl II SM#332
Newport Marina, Brisbane, Australia



On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 1:25 PM Scott SV Tengah < Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
Colin,

Good to hear from you! I guess you guys aren't selling Island Pearl II then? We are in San Blas now and planning to transit the canal and head to the Galapagos within a month. Slowly but surely making our way to your part of the world :)

Do you have any idea of the amp hours you're putting getting out of your solar/wind array? I am very jealous that you have that production capacity and I'd love to see numbers.

Since you're barely running the Victron 230v chargers, you don't have to worry about this, but others may want to think about it: lead batteries can only take full current at low SOC. I seem to recall around 65% SOC or so, the charging current tapers quite a bit. With LFP, the batteries will take full current up to 99% or so. That means your chargers are running at full capacity and generating lots of heat for longer periods. 

Related to that, if you haven't already, think about your 24v alternator and the regulator attached to it. I am not sure what alternator is fitted on the SM, but we have a Mastervolt 110amp which Mastervolt says is OK for the long periods of full current that LFP will require of your alternator. For good measure, I installed a temperature sensor that will instruct the Alpha Pro II regulator to taper output if the alternator gets too hot. Finally, make sure your alternator has a LFP charging profile and just as importantly, the Battery Management System (BMS) can shut down your alternator when there is an over voltage or over temperature condition in one of the cells. Note that you can have acceptable overall bank voltage but one of the 32 cells that will comprise your system may be over voltage. If your system doesn't stop charging, it could irreversibly damage that cell. 

Finally, keep in mind the Dolphin chargers don't have a LFP profile. At least the ones in the 54 did not. There's a 54 owner out there who installed 1200 (!!!!) AH of LFP and fried them in short order - I believe because he charged them using the wrong profile.

After your install, you will get a 25% boost from your already massive solar/wind array on charging because with LFP, you don't get the 25% charging inefficiency you get with lead. BTW - I've run the aft AC all night on battery/inverter and our 450 amp hour bank was more than enough.

Hope this helps.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

 

 



--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445



--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Colin.

Re the sale of Island Pearl. I am not surprised. I looked for any exuse not to sell Ocean Pearl. The reality is they are the most robust and easiest to sail boat available. (In my humble opinion) So unless you intend to totally swallow the anchor stay with Island Pearl. I was seriously considering a step up to the 54 but watching the posts on the forum my opinion that the SM was the ultimate off shore yacht for a couple became solidified. I see them as the culmination of Henri's lifes work.  So I stay where I am.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 27 February 2020 at 15:57 islandpearl2_sm2k332 <colin.d.streeter@...> wrote:

Hi Scott

Thanks again for the tips. The alternator will be my next step after some local testing yes. We are away from the boat down in Sydney for a week, but the Lithium install went perfectly on Tuesday, and Lauren and I are absolutely delighted!!! The 4 x 100amp 24v LifePO4 batteries fit in the 2001 SM 2000 battery compartment perfectly and we have lost at least 150kg of weight, yet to be measured...

Our 2001 SM 2000 has space for 8 house batteries plus start battery (not the enlarged 12 battery bank compartment as on later (2003+?) boats), so this awesome lithium setup would fit in even the very earliest SM's I suspect, and for the first time ever I am now pleased to have the smaller rather than the larger battery space.

Regarding the sale of our boat, we have Island Pearl II listed for sale but had not yet got around to putting her up for sale on the Amel Owners site. However, we are now seriously considering the wisdom of selling as we watch the increasing global panic related to coronavirus around the globe. We miss our sailing days already, and so we are simply not negotiable right now and may still remove her from the market depending on how world affairs turn out. She is far too nice to take a huge loss on after all the investment in upgrades we have made if there remains a chance that we will sail again.

Glad to hear you guys are soon heading over the Pacific. Best wishes for that trip and we do hope to catch up again when you reach us here on the other side.

Best Regards

Colin & Lauren Streeter
SV Island Pearl II SM#332
Newport Marina, Brisbane, Australia



On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 1:25 PM Scott SV Tengah < Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
Colin,

Good to hear from you! I guess you guys aren't selling Island Pearl II then? We are in San Blas now and planning to transit the canal and head to the Galapagos within a month. Slowly but surely making our way to your part of the world :)

Do you have any idea of the amp hours you're putting getting out of your solar/wind array? I am very jealous that you have that production capacity and I'd love to see numbers.

Since you're barely running the Victron 230v chargers, you don't have to worry about this, but others may want to think about it: lead batteries can only take full current at low SOC. I seem to recall around 65% SOC or so, the charging current tapers quite a bit. With LFP, the batteries will take full current up to 99% or so. That means your chargers are running at full capacity and generating lots of heat for longer periods. 

Related to that, if you haven't already, think about your 24v alternator and the regulator attached to it. I am not sure what alternator is fitted on the SM, but we have a Mastervolt 110amp which Mastervolt says is OK for the long periods of full current that LFP will require of your alternator. For good measure, I installed a temperature sensor that will instruct the Alpha Pro II regulator to taper output if the alternator gets too hot. Finally, make sure your alternator has a LFP charging profile and just as importantly, the Battery Management System (BMS) can shut down your alternator when there is an over voltage or over temperature condition in one of the cells. Note that you can have acceptable overall bank voltage but one of the 32 cells that will comprise your system may be over voltage. If your system doesn't stop charging, it could irreversibly damage that cell. 

Finally, keep in mind the Dolphin chargers don't have a LFP profile. At least the ones in the 54 did not. There's a 54 owner out there who installed 1200 (!!!!) AH of LFP and fried them in short order - I believe because he charged them using the wrong profile.

After your install, you will get a 25% boost from your already massive solar/wind array on charging because with LFP, you don't get the 25% charging inefficiency you get with lead. BTW - I've run the aft AC all night on battery/inverter and our 450 amp hour bank was more than enough.

Hope this helps.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

 

 



--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445

islandpearl2_sm2k332
 

Hi Scott

Thanks again for the tips. The alternator will be my next step after some local testing yes. We are away from the boat down in Sydney for a week, but the Lithium install went perfectly on Tuesday, and Lauren and I are absolutely delighted!!! The 4 x 100amp 24v LifePO4 batteries fit in the 2001 SM 2000 battery compartment perfectly and we have lost at least 150kg of weight, yet to be measured...

Our 2001 SM 2000 has space for 8 house batteries plus start battery (not the enlarged 12 battery bank compartment as on later (2003+?) boats), so this awesome lithium setup would fit in even the very earliest SM's I suspect, and for the first time ever I am now pleased to have the smaller rather than the larger battery space.

Regarding the sale of our boat, we have Island Pearl II listed for sale but had not yet got around to putting her up for sale on the Amel Owners site. However, we are now seriously considering the wisdom of selling as we watch the increasing global panic related to coronavirus around the globe. We miss our sailing days already, and so we are simply not negotiable right now and may still remove her from the market depending on how world affairs turn out. She is far too nice to take a huge loss on after all the investment in upgrades we have made if there remains a chance that we will sail again.

Glad to hear you guys are soon heading over the Pacific. Best wishes for that trip and we do hope to catch up again when you reach us here on the other side.

Best Regards

Colin & Lauren Streeter
SV Island Pearl II SM#332
Newport Marina, Brisbane, Australia



On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 1:25 PM Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
Colin,

Good to hear from you! I guess you guys aren't selling Island Pearl II then? We are in San Blas now and planning to transit the canal and head to the Galapagos within a month. Slowly but surely making our way to your part of the world :)

Do you have any idea of the amp hours you're putting getting out of your solar/wind array? I am very jealous that you have that production capacity and I'd love to see numbers.

Since you're barely running the Victron 230v chargers, you don't have to worry about this, but others may want to think about it: lead batteries can only take full current at low SOC. I seem to recall around 65% SOC or so, the charging current tapers quite a bit. With LFP, the batteries will take full current up to 99% or so. That means your chargers are running at full capacity and generating lots of heat for longer periods. 

Related to that, if you haven't already, think about your 24v alternator and the regulator attached to it. I am not sure what alternator is fitted on the SM, but we have a Mastervolt 110amp which Mastervolt says is OK for the long periods of full current that LFP will require of your alternator. For good measure, I installed a temperature sensor that will instruct the Alpha Pro II regulator to taper output if the alternator gets too hot. Finally, make sure your alternator has a LFP charging profile and just as importantly, the Battery Management System (BMS) can shut down your alternator when there is an over voltage or over temperature condition in one of the cells. Note that you can have acceptable overall bank voltage but one of the 32 cells that will comprise your system may be over voltage. If your system doesn't stop charging, it could irreversibly damage that cell. 

Finally, keep in mind the Dolphin chargers don't have a LFP profile. At least the ones in the 54 did not. There's a 54 owner out there who installed 1200 (!!!!) AH of LFP and fried them in short order - I believe because he charged them using the wrong profile.

After your install, you will get a 25% boost from your already massive solar/wind array on charging because with LFP, you don't get the 25% charging inefficiency you get with lead. BTW - I've run the aft AC all night on battery/inverter and our 450 amp hour bank was more than enough.

Hope this helps.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com



--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445

Scott SV Tengah
 

Colin,

Good to hear from you! I guess you guys aren't selling Island Pearl II then? We are in San Blas now and planning to transit the canal and head to the Galapagos within a month. Slowly but surely making our way to your part of the world :)

Do you have any idea of the amp hours you're putting getting out of your solar/wind array? I am very jealous that you have that production capacity and I'd love to see numbers.

Since you're barely running the Victron 230v chargers, you don't have to worry about this, but others may want to think about it: lead batteries can only take full current at low SOC. I seem to recall around 65% SOC or so, the charging current tapers quite a bit. With LFP, the batteries will take full current up to 99% or so. That means your chargers are running at full capacity and generating lots of heat for longer periods. 

Related to that, if you haven't already, think about your 24v alternator and the regulator attached to it. I am not sure what alternator is fitted on the SM, but we have a Mastervolt 110amp which Mastervolt says is OK for the long periods of full current that LFP will require of your alternator. For good measure, I installed a temperature sensor that will instruct the Alpha Pro II regulator to taper output if the alternator gets too hot. Finally, make sure your alternator has a LFP charging profile and just as importantly, the Battery Management System (BMS) can shut down your alternator when there is an over voltage or over temperature condition in one of the cells. Note that you can have acceptable overall bank voltage but one of the 32 cells that will comprise your system may be over voltage. If your system doesn't stop charging, it could irreversibly damage that cell. 

Finally, keep in mind the Dolphin chargers don't have a LFP profile. At least the ones in the 54 did not. There's a 54 owner out there who installed 1200 (!!!!) AH of LFP and fried them in short order - I believe because he charged them using the wrong profile.

After your install, you will get a 25% boost from your already massive solar/wind array on charging because with LFP, you don't get the 25% charging inefficiency you get with lead. BTW - I've run the aft AC all night on battery/inverter and our 450 amp hour bank was more than enough.

Hope this helps.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Jamie Wendell
 

And Scott, one more thing. Thanks for that suggestion about having a backup 12-volt starting battery. I have never had a problem, but as they say, never say never.

I might add that I will be trying to sell off my existing batteries, which are Firefly batteries. I installed them after my earlier 2016 battery compartment explosion, and they have been good. The problem I have found is that the voltage drops off and shuts down many of my critical systems (like refrigeration) and kills my pump.

I probably have too much "stuff" to avoid that problem, and I also feel that it is critical that you equalize batteries in series to make 24 volts - I have been remiss there.
And I do have solar panels (about 750 watts) and a wind generator.

Anyone interested in 10 Fireflys?

Jamie
Phantom A54 #44

Jamie Wendell
 

Scott, a lot of great comments and thanks for being so detailed. That really helps us all out here in Amel land - learn from other's mistakes (er. success I mean)?

My approach is to do the breaker allocation thing as a test to see what runs and what doesn't before I "permanently" split the AC bus - just a matter of moving a few wires really, so no big deal.
And you are right, I just read up on the Mastervolt USB issue, and I will be adding the converter as well, so that I can plug in my laptop to do the programming for the alternator.

I just ordered all my parts through Battle Born - thanks to Bill Rouse for that assistance. My contractor and I are both going to be winners now!!

Oh, and regarding the load issues, the good thing (to me) about having dual Multis is that I can always parallel them if I need the extra oomph. We shall see - all it would take is some bigger wires. Sounds easy, right?

I will keep all informed as I get this Lithium deal installed and up and running.

Best to you and Mia.
Jamie
Phantom A54 #44

islandpearl2_sm2k332
 

Greetings Scott

We are moving Island Pearl II from AGM to Lithium this week here in Australia, so I just wanted to shout out to you with a huge thanks for all your hard work here and for sharing. It has been a huge help to us!

Our system will not be as complex as yours, and particularly we have decided to go with 24v Lithium batteries instead of connecting banks of two 12v's in series, and we already had the Victron 3000w/70amp Multi Inverter/Charger installed in the "ex wet locker" (our cockpit is fully enclosed so the Admiral never allows wet gear downstairs anyway!). Even on the old AGM's at 450amp hrs capacity, we have never experienced any heating problem with this unit situated there, and we particularly placed it there due to advice about placing it closer to the battery banks. This also had the advantage to us of having both Dolphin chargers still available too as a backup. With 1040w solar, plus two Rutland 1200 wind gens, we have frequently run 3 x full 6.5kg loads in the clothes washer in a single hot sunny day on the batteries alone, but to get to this we had to replace the old Thompson washer with the latest Bosch model 6.5kg washer last year. We don't normally like to run the rear aircon on the inverter for long but now with Lithium we think that would be a real possibility too!

Since we were almost completely running on nature alone before with this existing setup, we very much hope that the switch to 4 x 100Amp hr 24v LifePo4 batteries will be the absolute end of us ever needing the Genset, other than to give it it's normal once two weekly run to ensure we don't "lose it through not using it!"

Wishing you and Mia a wonderful cruising season this year and we do hope to catch up with you if and when you ever sail into Brisbane, Australia.

Best regards

Colin & Lauren Streeter
SV Island Pearl II SM#332
Newport Marina, Brisbane, Australia





On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 11:17 AM Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
One more thing - I know of another A54 owner who has the 3kva inverter and he stated that it won't run his clothes washer. This is a big surprise to me because my Beko is rated for around 1500 watts I believe. But I guess the startup spike is too high for a 3kva.

Running the washing machine's 3.5 hour program on battery/inverter vs. having to run the genset for that long is one of the reasons I got lfp, so you might want to consider that.
--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com



--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445

Scott SV Tengah
 

One more thing - I know of another A54 owner who has the 3kva inverter and he stated that it won't run his clothes washer. This is a big surprise to me because my Beko is rated for around 1500 watts I believe. But I guess the startup spike is too high for a 3kva.

Running the washing machine's 3.5 hour program on battery/inverter vs. having to run the genset for that long is one of the reasons I got lfp, so you might want to consider that.
--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Scott SV Tengah
 

Good timing on your question. I have figured out a way to have the Victron BMS control the Mastervolt Reg-on wire. I purchased this solid state relay at the suggestion of Peter Kennedy (PKYS):

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Crydom/DC60S3?qs=mNyg5qXQ%2FsdpD8JEee%252BrpQ%3D%3D&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIsruU14Da4AIVEo_ICh1PFARyEAYYBSABEgIUS_D_BwE

It is very low current draw so the Victron BMS successfully triggers it. However, as a solid state relay, there's around a 1 volt drop across the relay! So I ended up up adding two more Hella relays. Excuse my layman's explanation but this is how it works:

1) The Crydom solid state relay coils are triggered by the Victron BMS. As you may recall, the Victron BMS sends a voltage-high on the charge disconnect wire (a bit less than battery voltage) when all is good and then goes open circuit when there's a problem and charging needs to be stopped.

So I have this charge disconnect trigger the solid state relay. 

2) Because the reg-on wire is also the alternator voltage sense wire, the 1 volt drop across the Crydom relay isn't acceptable. So the load circuit (is that the right term? I'm talking about what is passed through when the Crydom relay is closed) controls a 24v Hella relay's coils. The 24v Hella relay connects battery positive to the reg-on of the Mastervolt. So when the BMS is happy, this 24v relay provides the battery voltage to the reg-on wire, which turns on the Alpha Pro and allows the alternator to charge but also provides the voltage sense to the regulator. We'll call this Relay2

3) However, I didn't want that 24v hella relay triggered 99.999% of the time, which it would be because 99.999% of the time, the Victron BMS charge disconnect "all is ok" signal would activate the Crydom relay and consequently activate the 24v Hella relay. So, to solve this problem, I added a 12v relay that is controlled by the Volvo ignition. We'll call this Relay3.  It's easy to get that because the original Amel setup has a 12v relay there already, so I just spliced off that. When the ignition is on, the 12v relay closes and pass through 24v, which is used to power Relay2. In that way, Relay2 is only energized/activated when the ignition switch is on.

I hope this makes some sense and perhaps if you do understand it, you could make an electrical diagram that explains it to others in a simple way.

Note: The Crydom's terminals are exposed, as you can see. I put liquid electrical tape over the whole thing to protect it. Your ELK-924 relay seems to be a good solution too. I didn't see a voltage drop across the relay, so maybe that allows you to get rid of what I call Relay2. However, I think the Crydom is bi-stable and I believe it draws little to no current when activated. Not sure about your proposed relay.

I noticed you don't have an external BMS. I suppose the Battle Born batteries have an internal BMS that disconnects the battery when it detects overly high or overly low voltage? My understanding is that if your chargers (alternator/solar/multiplus) can get damaged if they are outputting a lot of current and you suddenly disconnect the battery. The way the Victron VE.BUS BMS charge disconnect works is that it tells the chargers to stop charging. Seems the Battle Born system just disconnects the batteries and does nothing to turn off the chargers? Maybe that is ok, but you will need to investigate.

New Improvements

I have installed two simple switches to control my Victron Quattro. Pretty sure you can do the same with the Multiplus

1) The first switch is to turn the charging portion of the Quattro on/off. I run the VE-Config software and added an assistant called "charge current control". The switch simply passes through 24v that I got near the autopilot above the galley sink and goes to an Aux Input 1 on the Quattro. The charge current control assistant then dictates what happens. When the switch is activated, the Quattro charges at 120amps. When it is inactivated, it doesn't charge. This allows me to easily turn off this big load to assist with warm up and cool down of the generator. 
2) The second switch turns the inverter portion on/off. There's a remote switch input built into the Quattro. I measured Quattro inverter's idle consumption to be 40watts! That's nearly 40 amp hours a day! So now we just turn the inverter on when we need it. Sure, you can get the $125v Victron control panel to do this, but I find this simpler, cheaper and it doesn't consume energy.


Keeping state of charge low when I leave the boat for extended periods

I think I figured out a way to keep the battery in the healthy SOC range for lithium batteries when I am away from the boat for extended periods. Keep in mind I have 960w of solar, but you can easily apply the same solution if you're just plugged in. When we left the boat over the summer for a month, the batteries sat at 100% for a month in hot Southern Virginia. Not good for the batteries.

When I leave the boat, I will use the BMV-712's built-in bi-stable relay to turn on the inverter (using the remote switch wiring I mentioned above). I have a 220v AC (200w) dehumidifier that will be plugged in. When the BMV-712 hits 65% SOC, it will close the relay. That will turn on the inverter and the humidifier will start running and drawing down the SOC. The relay will stay closed until the battery SOC gets down to 45% and then the relay will open, which then will turn off the inverter. 

I think by using this method, I'll keep the batteries in their optimal 45-65% SOC range and also have the dehumidifier run daily. Win-win. I don't recall you having solar, but you could probably achieve something similar with shore power. Just remember to dial down down your charge current on the Multiplus, otherwise the dehumidifier could never draw down the SOC otherwise.

Generator Start-Stop and "load disconnect"

There's a way to have the BMV-712 trigger the Quattro's programmable relays to start/stop the Onan. I have started to think it through but haven't implemented it yet. I am thinking of having the generator automatically start when the SOC drops below 30%. See the 'Alternatives Using Assistants' by Thierry Cortasa below.

https://www.victronenergy.com/live/auto-generator-start-stop:start

Two differences in my plan:

1) Rather than have voltage trigger the start/stop, I will use the BMV-712 bi-stable built in relay to do that. The output of the BMV-712 relay will go to the Quattro's Aux Input 2. Then I will use the Quattro programmable relay assistants perform the start/stop. I am thinking of having the generator automatically start when the SOC drops below 30% and run the generator until SOC reaches 75%. Note that I can't have this active when I leave the boat for extended periods and setup the BMV-712 to turn on/off the inverter, as described above, since the BMV-712 only has one programmable relay.
2) Another improvement I will make is that I will have the Quattro "Ignore AC" for 30 seconds upon the 30% lower SOC generator startup threshold, to allow the oil to circulate before imposing the huge charging loads. I will do the same when the SOC hits 75% to allow the generator to cool down a bit. 

I have been struggling with the load disconnect and have decided I will not add it. Here's my nightmare scenario: I am sailing at night in 45 knots and focusing intently on keeping us safe. The batteries are severely imbalanced somehow and even at 35% overall state of charge, there is one cell that has dropped below the voltage threshold and triggers the BMS to disconnect the load. At this point, I would lose navigation, autopilot, everything electrical. It's an unlikely scenario, but it could happen and the results could be very unpleasant.

To solve this, I will add the load disconnect as an additional trigger to start the generator. If the Victron BMS load disconnect signal is triggered (aka goes open circuit), it will start the generator and charge the batteries to remove that low cell voltage condition. I think this is far preferable to simply disconnecting all electrical devices because it actually solves the cell low voltage problem.

So the generator start/stop will be triggered by either SOC or the BMS sending a "load disconnect" signal. I just need to figure out a way to make sure I can connect both the BMS load disconnect wire and the BMV-712 relay output to the same Aux Input 2 on the Quattro without causing any trouble. Also need to think it through to ensure that if the BMS triggers a generator start, the BMV-712 relay will still turn off the generator when it hits 75%. Just need to test I guess. Thoughts?

Some thoughts/comments on your choices specifically:

- You will need the Mastervolt Masterbus-USB interface to adjust the charging profile in your alternator. Or just borrow one.
- One advantage of using 12v batteries in serial to create our 24v house bank system is that if you have a problem with the engine/genset battery, you can easily borrow one from the house bank. You won't be able to do that with your 24v Battle Born batteries. That said, one huge annoyance of my system using 12v batteries in serial to create 24v is that, annually, I need to disconnect by batteries and charge them individually to balance them out. The cells in a 12v individual battery will balance automatically but two 12v batteries in serial to make 24v will not balance themselves. 

Maybe a solution for you is to get a backup 12v starter battery that is connected a battery tender that keeps it topped off whenever you run your generator. That way, you have a backup that stays fully charged in case the single engine/genset starting battery fails in the middle of nowhere.

- Your idea of being able to charge and invert simultaneously is good. I was considering doing that by having my Skylla charge and then my Quattro invert to avoid the 50hz/60hz problem you describe. But frankly, we are going through the P-Canal soon and I think most our cruising route will be in 50hz land and in any event, we're rarely at marinas. In Panama/Colombia I got 230v/60hz power, which my appliances don't love. So what I simply did was turn off the 230v outlets and appliances, run the charger for an hour or two to charge the lithiums and then disconnect shore power. That's good enough for us at the moment. Your solution is obviously preferable if you're going to be spending lots of time in 230v/60hz marinas. 

Hope this helps you and everyone else. I welcome comments/criticisms/improvements.


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Jamie Wendell
 

Hello Scott, I realize your posting was from awhile ago, but I am getting ready to convert my Amel 54 (Phantom) to LifePO4 batteries. I have read your "dissertation" with great interest and am interested in getting an update from you before I make the plunge.
Have you been able to resolve all of the "problems" you noted? By the way, here is what I am planning to install with my electrical contractor:
 
(12) 24-Volt (50 AH) Battle Born LIFePo4 Batteries
(2) Victron Multiplus 24/3000/70-16
(2) Victron Smart BT Dongle
(1) MK3-USB Adapter
(1) Mastervolt Alpha III Regulator
(1) Victron BMV-712 Smart Meter w/Temp Sensor

Since I already have a 3kVA inverter, I did not want to upgrade to a Quattro or a higher capacity Muliplus unit. That would have forced me to do a lot of wire upgrades, and I think 3kVA will suit my needs. With the lithiums, however, I have decided to split my AC bus into 2 columns - 1 side for inverter-capable and the other for high-current loads, such as my 230V(only) watermaker, dive compressor, and saloon AC. We decided on 2 inverter/chargers for redundancy, where one unit will be set up for charge only. That way I can charge and invert simultaneously, and even provide 50hz power when connected to 60hz shore power in the US. I intend to use the existing battery charger circuits to feed the Multiplus units, so as to maintain the flexibility Amel provided originally. The incoming shore/generator ATS will remain as is.

I also have at least one possible solution for you regarding some of the "problems" you indicated you still had to resolve. Maybe you have already found the solution, but I have used the following Elk Products relay very successfully, and I'll bet it will work for your Mastervolt reg disconnect. This is what I intend to use.

ELK-924

The ELK-924 Sensitive Relay module features DPDT (Form "C") dry contacts for general purpose switching of devices or high current loads. It operates on 12 or 24 volts DC and can be triggered with a negative or positive input at an incredible low current of only 1 milliamp. Also available in a 4 pack (ELK-9244) which is packaged as 4 relay modules grouped on a pre-scored break-off circuit board.

Hope all is well with you.
Jamie Wendell
Phantom A54 #44

Sv Garulfo
 


It disconnects the batteries altogether. There is ‘only’ one pair of poles on the battery. I’ve seen lithium setups where the loads and the chargers were on separate pairs of poles. If that is your case, i guess you could put the relay on whichever pair is appropriate. 

On a side note to follow up on the 90%SOC management in the MasterVolt set up, i programmed the ‘battery full’ event to put the MPPT in float state, where it feeds amps as per the load requirement and only drips a few amps into the batteries. 
It does not seem to go back to ‘bulk’ if the SOC drops back below the ‘battery full’ level, bit it would based on the “return to bulk” voltage. The next day it automatically switches back on with daylight in bulk mode. 

I also set the Alpha Pro alternator regulator charging mode to “suspended” upon the ‘battery full’ event. Again it does not fall back to charging below that level, so I created a button to turn the charging ON/OFF manually. 
I need to test what the float mode of the alternator does to see if that’s a better state. 

I haven’t tried the battery charger yet but I guess i would just set it on float state and it should just feed the loads and keep the batteries at 90%SOC, for instance for long term on shore power. 


Best,

Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Fakarava, French Polynesia 


On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 at 09:29, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
Thomas,

Do your ML7720B disconnects completely disconnect the battery? I would like to simply disconnect the loads,  but allow the charging circuits to remain intact as our Victron VE.BMS has separate triggers to cutoff charging (overvoltage or over temperature) and load (under voltage). 

I talked to Victron about using three BP220 load disconnects, one for each battery, but two problems arose: (1) the BP220 is not bidirectional with respect to current and (2) I don't want to disconnect the battery, just the load.


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Scott SV Tengah
 

Thomas,

Do your ML7720B disconnects completely disconnect the battery? I would like to simply disconnect the loads,  but allow the charging circuits to remain intact as our Victron VE.BMS has separate triggers to cutoff charging (overvoltage or over temperature) and load (under voltage). 

I talked to Victron about using three BP220 load disconnects, one for each battery, but two problems arose: (1) the BP220 is not bidirectional with respect to current and (2) I don't want to disconnect the battery, just the load.


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

ngtnewington Newington
 

Ohms law

Watts=volts x amps


On 27 Sep 2019, at 17:09, Paul Brown <feeder.brown@...> wrote:

Sure, I should say my solar is producing around 15A in direct sunlight, I would like around 30A production which would provide me with more than I would use in a day

Regards, Paul - Fortuna II 55/17


On 27 Sep 2019, at 5:24 pm, Matt Salatino via Groups.Io <helmsmatt@...> wrote:

You, sir, are correct!
Amps is an instantaneous measurement of current.
Amp hours are over time.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Sep 27, 2019, at 11:19 AM, hanspeter baettig <hanspeter.baettig@...> wrote:

Hi Matt
only to be correct, mybe you also mix something
Amps are not power
Amps are current
Power (el) is Watt

Regards
Hanspeter
----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----
Von : helmsmatt@...
Datum : 27/09/2019 - 13:56 (MS)
An : main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Betreff : Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Converting my Amel 54 to lithium batteries: what I did, what I like and what I don't like (after one year of full time live aboard use)

Paul, you may be mixing up amps and amp-hours (ah).
Amps is the real-time power.
Ah is over a time period.

~~~ ⛵️~~~ Matt

On Sep 27, 2019, at 3:20 AM, Paul Brown < feeder.brown@...> wrote:

Hello Thomas, as a matter of interest could you please let me know the specifications of solar panels and configuration? 200ah is excellent generation and I’m wanting to double my 600w/24 solar, it produces around 15ah in direct sun light.

Kind regards Paul
Fortuna II 55/17


On 27 Sep 2019, at 5:15 am, Sv Garulfo < svgarulfo@...> wrote:


Solar perf:
I measured 5.5kWh in 24h, so 229Ah @ 24V nominal, but really 200Ah at 27.5V which is more the battery voltage. Interestingly, a slight overcast seems to be beneficial to solar production. 

90%SOC management:
I dug a bit more in the BMS configuration and the MasterVolt BMS triggers events at various SOC; >20%, >40%, >60%, >80% and ‘battery full’ which is 95% by default but configurable to other level. Those events can be used to control other components on the MasterBus, like buzzing the EasyView5, switching the chargers to float phase, or stopping them altogether. 
I need to test that and, in particular, confirm what happens to the chargers when the level goes back below ‘battery full’, but it could be the solution to long term dock SOC management in the MasterVolt ecosystem. 

Best,
Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Rangiroa, French Polynesia 



On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 at 11:21, Sv Garulfo via Groups.Io <svgarulfo= gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
ML disconnect relay: 
product number 7702B, rated 500A. I have one for each of the 2 batteries. The relays draw no current in ON or OFF state. There are wires to set the relay states depending on what the default state should be. In our setup, the wiring to the battery’s BMS ports is specified explicitly in the documentation so there is no head scratching to do. 


Solar:
We have produced about 100KWh a month historically (~140Ah@24V a day). We are having very good sun at the moment so I’ll measure a max production day today. The max Amps I saw going in was 36A in Curaçao last summer. Our production during the Pacific crossing, Gambier and southern Tuamotus in April-July was pretty poor with cloudy conditions and relatively low sun elevation.

Our wet locker doesn’t get wet. We are lucky to cruise in places were we don’t need foul weather clothes. We quickly vacuum packed and stowed those away. And the Amel cockpit helps with that. 

Yes, breakfast toasts, 2mins of microwave here and there to reheat food, boiling water in 60s or cooking smelly food outside on the portable induction stove. All good examples of how it changes life onboard. 

Long term storage or dock: 
I would say, if we are aboard at the dock, I would let the solar deal with the batteries and use shore power for the others appliances of required. If we are off the boat for a long time, we would just switch everything off and not keep the shore power on. We left the boat in Curaçao for 2months last year and with everything off, the batteries lost less than 5% SOC.

Best,
Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Rangiroa, French Polynesia 




On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 at 09:13, Scott SV Tengah < Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
Thomas, 

Thanks for the reply!

Regarding your ML disconnect relay, which model are you using? For their disconnect relays, I only see 120amp max
https://www.bluesea.com/products/category/37/Non-Critical_Load_Disconnects

Or did you use this charge disconnect? If so, any idea how I could use it with my system? 500amps may just be enough! The VE.BUS BMS load disconnect sends out 27v (more or less) when all is good and goes to open circuit when there is a problem with the batteries and the load needs to be disconnected. The other option, as someone suggested, is to buy THREE Victron BP-220 and attach one to each 25.8v pair. I presume that would give me 660 amps total?

Regarding your solar setup, any idea how many AH per day you average? Curious how that compares to our setup. We have a bit more rated capacity and we're doing parallel as noted before.  Also, do you have any concerns with your MPPT getting wet? We definitely use that wet locker for...wet items. 

The Victron Quattro also allows you to limit the input on both the 230v inputs. I leave the genset at 50amps but adjust the shore power as appropriate. That was very useful in Greece when we were "plugged into" someone's house circuit. Limiting it to 8 amps prevented constantly tripping their circuit breaker. :)

Regarding your shop vac'ing the engine room, we all get our kicks from somewhere I guess! My joy is in using the electric kettle and the microwave when I'm too lazy to do a proper meal and not having to fire up the genset.

To figure out SOC and charging voltage, I just played around. For example, my Mastervolt Alpha Pro2 set at 27.5v absorption will stop charging at about 90-93% SOC as reported on the Victron BMV-712 monitor. As you probably know, lifepo4 has very stable voltage until you hit the "knees" at near 0% SOC and 100% SOC. So you just have to play with it. I bet at 26.8v absorption, it'd be just about right for long term storage/docking.

I probably sound like a Victron rep, too, but like you, I just continued with choices made prior. My ecosystem lock-in with Victron started with the BlueSolar MPPT, which ironically I don't love!

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com




Paul Brown
 

Hi Thomas 

Thank you so much for sharing and it certainly helps me moving forward, you have a strong system and I’d expect it works well for you

I’m certainly expecting that more  solar generation than less is a good thing 

Bring on solar decks and sails.

Regards Paul - Fortuna II 55/17


On 27 Sep 2019, at 7:48 pm, Sv Garulfo <svgarulfo@...> wrote:

Hi Paul,

3 Bisol panels: BMO-300
Rated power :300W, 
Rated current: 9.40A
Rated voltage: 31.9V
Short circuit current: 9.75A
Open circuit voltage: 39.7V
Weight: 18.5kg

Mounted in series 

Cabling: ~25m of 10mm^2 between the panels and the regulator. A few feet of 25mm^2 between the regulator and the batteries. I worked some numbers and the theory says wiring in series causes ~5W loss in the cable, parallel would be ~40W.

Hope that helps

Best,
Thomas




On 27 Sep 2019, at 05:24, Matt Salatino via Groups.Io <helmsmatt@...> wrote:

You, sir, are correct!
Amps is an instantaneous measurement of current.
Amp hours are over time.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Sep 27, 2019, at 11:19 AM, hanspeter baettig <hanspeter.baettig@...> wrote:

Hi Matt
only to be correct, mybe you also mix something
Amps are not power
Amps are current
Power (el) is Watt

Regards
Hanspeter
----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----
Von : helmsmatt@...
Datum : 27/09/2019 - 13:56 (MS)
An : main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Betreff : Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Converting my Amel 54 to lithium batteries: what I did, what I like and what I don't like (after one year of full time live aboard use)

Paul, you may be mixing up amps and amp-hours (ah).
Amps is the real-time power.
Ah is over a time period.

~~~ ⛵️~~~ Matt

On Sep 27, 2019, at 3:20 AM, Paul Brown < feeder.brown@...> wrote:

Hello Thomas, as a matter of interest could you please let me know the specifications of solar panels and configuration? 200ah is excellent generation and I’m wanting to double my 600w/24 solar, it produces around 15ah in direct sun light.

Kind regards Paul
Fortuna II 55/17


On 27 Sep 2019, at 5:15 am, Sv Garulfo < svgarulfo@...> wrote:


Solar perf:
I measured 5.5kWh in 24h, so 229Ah @ 24V nominal, but really 200Ah at 27.5V which is more the battery voltage. Interestingly, a slight overcast seems to be beneficial to solar production. 

90%SOC management:
I dug a bit more in the BMS configuration and the MasterVolt BMS triggers events at various SOC; >20%, >40%, >60%, >80% and ‘battery full’ which is 95% by default but configurable to other level. Those events can be used to control other components on the MasterBus, like buzzing the EasyView5, switching the chargers to float phase, or stopping them altogether. 
I need to test that and, in particular, confirm what happens to the chargers when the level goes back below ‘battery full’, but it could be the solution to long term dock SOC management in the MasterVolt ecosystem. 

Best,
Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Rangiroa, French Polynesia 



On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 at 11:21, Sv Garulfo via Groups.Io <svgarulfo= gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
ML disconnect relay: 
product number 7702B, rated 500A. I have one for each of the 2 batteries. The relays draw no current in ON or OFF state. There are wires to set the relay states depending on what the default state should be. In our setup, the wiring to the battery’s BMS ports is specified explicitly in the documentation so there is no head scratching to do. 


Solar:
We have produced about 100KWh a month historically (~140Ah@24V a day). We are having very good sun at the moment so I’ll measure a max production day today. The max Amps I saw going in was 36A in Curaçao last summer. Our production during the Pacific crossing, Gambier and southern Tuamotus in April-July was pretty poor with cloudy conditions and relatively low sun elevation.

Our wet locker doesn’t get wet. We are lucky to cruise in places were we don’t need foul weather clothes. We quickly vacuum packed and stowed those away. And the Amel cockpit helps with that. 

Yes, breakfast toasts, 2mins of microwave here and there to reheat food, boiling water in 60s or cooking smelly food outside on the portable induction stove. All good examples of how it changes life onboard. 

Long term storage or dock: 
I would say, if we are aboard at the dock, I would let the solar deal with the batteries and use shore power for the others appliances of required. If we are off the boat for a long time, we would just switch everything off and not keep the shore power on. We left the boat in Curaçao for 2months last year and with everything off, the batteries lost less than 5% SOC.

Best,
Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Rangiroa, French Polynesia 




On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 at 09:13, Scott SV Tengah < Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
Thomas, 

Thanks for the reply!

Regarding your ML disconnect relay, which model are you using? For their disconnect relays, I only see 120amp max
https://www.bluesea.com/products/category/37/Non-Critical_Load_Disconnects

Or did you use this charge disconnect? If so, any idea how I could use it with my system? 500amps may just be enough! The VE.BUS BMS load disconnect sends out 27v (more or less) when all is good and goes to open circuit when there is a problem with the batteries and the load needs to be disconnected. The other option, as someone suggested, is to buy THREE Victron BP-220 and attach one to each 25.8v pair. I presume that would give me 660 amps total?

Regarding your solar setup, any idea how many AH per day you average? Curious how that compares to our setup. We have a bit more rated capacity and we're doing parallel as noted before.  Also, do you have any concerns with your MPPT getting wet? We definitely use that wet locker for...wet items. 

The Victron Quattro also allows you to limit the input on both the 230v inputs. I leave the genset at 50amps but adjust the shore power as appropriate. That was very useful in Greece when we were "plugged into" someone's house circuit. Limiting it to 8 amps prevented constantly tripping their circuit breaker. :)

Regarding your shop vac'ing the engine room, we all get our kicks from somewhere I guess! My joy is in using the electric kettle and the microwave when I'm too lazy to do a proper meal and not having to fire up the genset.

To figure out SOC and charging voltage, I just played around. For example, my Mastervolt Alpha Pro2 set at 27.5v absorption will stop charging at about 90-93% SOC as reported on the Victron BMV-712 monitor. As you probably know, lifepo4 has very stable voltage until you hit the "knees" at near 0% SOC and 100% SOC. So you just have to play with it. I bet at 26.8v absorption, it'd be just about right for long term storage/docking.

I probably sound like a Victron rep, too, but like you, I just continued with choices made prior. My ecosystem lock-in with Victron started with the BlueSolar MPPT, which ironically I don't love!

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com




Sv Garulfo
 

Hi Paul,

3 Bisol panels: BMO-300
Rated power :300W, 
Rated current: 9.40A
Rated voltage: 31.9V
Short circuit current: 9.75A
Open circuit voltage: 39.7V
Weight: 18.5kg

Mounted in series 

Cabling: ~25m of 10mm^2 between the panels and the regulator. A few feet of 25mm^2 between the regulator and the batteries. I worked some numbers and the theory says wiring in series causes ~5W loss in the cable, parallel would be ~40W.

Hope that helps

Best,
Thomas




On 27 Sep 2019, at 05:24, Matt Salatino via Groups.Io <helmsmatt@...> wrote:

You, sir, are correct!
Amps is an instantaneous measurement of current.
Amp hours are over time.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Sep 27, 2019, at 11:19 AM, hanspeter baettig <hanspeter.baettig@...> wrote:

Hi Matt
only to be correct, mybe you also mix something
Amps are not power
Amps are current
Power (el) is Watt

Regards
Hanspeter
----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----
Von : helmsmatt@...
Datum : 27/09/2019 - 13:56 (MS)
An : main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Betreff : Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Converting my Amel 54 to lithium batteries: what I did, what I like and what I don't like (after one year of full time live aboard use)

Paul, you may be mixing up amps and amp-hours (ah).
Amps is the real-time power.
Ah is over a time period.

~~~ ⛵️~~~ Matt

On Sep 27, 2019, at 3:20 AM, Paul Brown < feeder.brown@...> wrote:

Hello Thomas, as a matter of interest could you please let me know the specifications of solar panels and configuration? 200ah is excellent generation and I’m wanting to double my 600w/24 solar, it produces around 15ah in direct sun light.

Kind regards Paul
Fortuna II 55/17


On 27 Sep 2019, at 5:15 am, Sv Garulfo < svgarulfo@...> wrote:


Solar perf:
I measured 5.5kWh in 24h, so 229Ah @ 24V nominal, but really 200Ah at 27.5V which is more the battery voltage. Interestingly, a slight overcast seems to be beneficial to solar production. 

90%SOC management:
I dug a bit more in the BMS configuration and the MasterVolt BMS triggers events at various SOC; >20%, >40%, >60%, >80% and ‘battery full’ which is 95% by default but configurable to other level. Those events can be used to control other components on the MasterBus, like buzzing the EasyView5, switching the chargers to float phase, or stopping them altogether. 
I need to test that and, in particular, confirm what happens to the chargers when the level goes back below ‘battery full’, but it could be the solution to long term dock SOC management in the MasterVolt ecosystem. 

Best,
Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Rangiroa, French Polynesia 



On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 at 11:21, Sv Garulfo via Groups.Io <svgarulfo= gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
ML disconnect relay: 
product number 7702B, rated 500A. I have one for each of the 2 batteries. The relays draw no current in ON or OFF state. There are wires to set the relay states depending on what the default state should be. In our setup, the wiring to the battery’s BMS ports is specified explicitly in the documentation so there is no head scratching to do. 


Solar:
We have produced about 100KWh a month historically (~140Ah@24V a day). We are having very good sun at the moment so I’ll measure a max production day today. The max Amps I saw going in was 36A in Curaçao last summer. Our production during the Pacific crossing, Gambier and southern Tuamotus in April-July was pretty poor with cloudy conditions and relatively low sun elevation.

Our wet locker doesn’t get wet. We are lucky to cruise in places were we don’t need foul weather clothes. We quickly vacuum packed and stowed those away. And the Amel cockpit helps with that. 

Yes, breakfast toasts, 2mins of microwave here and there to reheat food, boiling water in 60s or cooking smelly food outside on the portable induction stove. All good examples of how it changes life onboard. 

Long term storage or dock: 
I would say, if we are aboard at the dock, I would let the solar deal with the batteries and use shore power for the others appliances of required. If we are off the boat for a long time, we would just switch everything off and not keep the shore power on. We left the boat in Curaçao for 2months last year and with everything off, the batteries lost less than 5% SOC.

Best,
Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Rangiroa, French Polynesia 




On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 at 09:13, Scott SV Tengah < Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
Thomas, 

Thanks for the reply!

Regarding your ML disconnect relay, which model are you using? For their disconnect relays, I only see 120amp max
https://www.bluesea.com/products/category/37/Non-Critical_Load_Disconnects

Or did you use this charge disconnect? If so, any idea how I could use it with my system? 500amps may just be enough! The VE.BUS BMS load disconnect sends out 27v (more or less) when all is good and goes to open circuit when there is a problem with the batteries and the load needs to be disconnected. The other option, as someone suggested, is to buy THREE Victron BP-220 and attach one to each 25.8v pair. I presume that would give me 660 amps total?

Regarding your solar setup, any idea how many AH per day you average? Curious how that compares to our setup. We have a bit more rated capacity and we're doing parallel as noted before.  Also, do you have any concerns with your MPPT getting wet? We definitely use that wet locker for...wet items. 

The Victron Quattro also allows you to limit the input on both the 230v inputs. I leave the genset at 50amps but adjust the shore power as appropriate. That was very useful in Greece when we were "plugged into" someone's house circuit. Limiting it to 8 amps prevented constantly tripping their circuit breaker. :)

Regarding your shop vac'ing the engine room, we all get our kicks from somewhere I guess! My joy is in using the electric kettle and the microwave when I'm too lazy to do a proper meal and not having to fire up the genset.

To figure out SOC and charging voltage, I just played around. For example, my Mastervolt Alpha Pro2 set at 27.5v absorption will stop charging at about 90-93% SOC as reported on the Victron BMV-712 monitor. As you probably know, lifepo4 has very stable voltage until you hit the "knees" at near 0% SOC and 100% SOC. So you just have to play with it. I bet at 26.8v absorption, it'd be just about right for long term storage/docking.

I probably sound like a Victron rep, too, but like you, I just continued with choices made prior. My ecosystem lock-in with Victron started with the BlueSolar MPPT, which ironically I don't love!

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com




Paul Brown
 

Sure, I should say my solar is producing around 15A in direct sunlight, I would like around 30A production which would provide me with more than I would use in a day

Regards, Paul - Fortuna II 55/17


On 27 Sep 2019, at 5:24 pm, Matt Salatino via Groups.Io <helmsmatt@...> wrote:

You, sir, are correct!
Amps is an instantaneous measurement of current.
Amp hours are over time.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Sep 27, 2019, at 11:19 AM, hanspeter baettig <hanspeter.baettig@...> wrote:

Hi Matt
only to be correct, mybe you also mix something
Amps are not power
Amps are current
Power (el) is Watt

Regards
Hanspeter
----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----
Von : helmsmatt@...
Datum : 27/09/2019 - 13:56 (MS)
An : main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Betreff : Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Converting my Amel 54 to lithium batteries: what I did, what I like and what I don't like (after one year of full time live aboard use)

Paul, you may be mixing up amps and amp-hours (ah).
Amps is the real-time power.
Ah is over a time period.

~~~ ⛵️~~~ Matt

On Sep 27, 2019, at 3:20 AM, Paul Brown < feeder.brown@...> wrote:

Hello Thomas, as a matter of interest could you please let me know the specifications of solar panels and configuration? 200ah is excellent generation and I’m wanting to double my 600w/24 solar, it produces around 15ah in direct sun light.

Kind regards Paul
Fortuna II 55/17


On 27 Sep 2019, at 5:15 am, Sv Garulfo < svgarulfo@...> wrote:


Solar perf:
I measured 5.5kWh in 24h, so 229Ah @ 24V nominal, but really 200Ah at 27.5V which is more the battery voltage. Interestingly, a slight overcast seems to be beneficial to solar production. 

90%SOC management:
I dug a bit more in the BMS configuration and the MasterVolt BMS triggers events at various SOC; >20%, >40%, >60%, >80% and ‘battery full’ which is 95% by default but configurable to other level. Those events can be used to control other components on the MasterBus, like buzzing the EasyView5, switching the chargers to float phase, or stopping them altogether. 
I need to test that and, in particular, confirm what happens to the chargers when the level goes back below ‘battery full’, but it could be the solution to long term dock SOC management in the MasterVolt ecosystem. 

Best,
Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Rangiroa, French Polynesia 



On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 at 11:21, Sv Garulfo via Groups.Io <svgarulfo= gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
ML disconnect relay: 
product number 7702B, rated 500A. I have one for each of the 2 batteries. The relays draw no current in ON or OFF state. There are wires to set the relay states depending on what the default state should be. In our setup, the wiring to the battery’s BMS ports is specified explicitly in the documentation so there is no head scratching to do. 


Solar:
We have produced about 100KWh a month historically (~140Ah@24V a day). We are having very good sun at the moment so I’ll measure a max production day today. The max Amps I saw going in was 36A in Curaçao last summer. Our production during the Pacific crossing, Gambier and southern Tuamotus in April-July was pretty poor with cloudy conditions and relatively low sun elevation.

Our wet locker doesn’t get wet. We are lucky to cruise in places were we don’t need foul weather clothes. We quickly vacuum packed and stowed those away. And the Amel cockpit helps with that. 

Yes, breakfast toasts, 2mins of microwave here and there to reheat food, boiling water in 60s or cooking smelly food outside on the portable induction stove. All good examples of how it changes life onboard. 

Long term storage or dock: 
I would say, if we are aboard at the dock, I would let the solar deal with the batteries and use shore power for the others appliances of required. If we are off the boat for a long time, we would just switch everything off and not keep the shore power on. We left the boat in Curaçao for 2months last year and with everything off, the batteries lost less than 5% SOC.

Best,
Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Rangiroa, French Polynesia 




On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 at 09:13, Scott SV Tengah < Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
Thomas, 

Thanks for the reply!

Regarding your ML disconnect relay, which model are you using? For their disconnect relays, I only see 120amp max
https://www.bluesea.com/products/category/37/Non-Critical_Load_Disconnects

Or did you use this charge disconnect? If so, any idea how I could use it with my system? 500amps may just be enough! The VE.BUS BMS load disconnect sends out 27v (more or less) when all is good and goes to open circuit when there is a problem with the batteries and the load needs to be disconnected. The other option, as someone suggested, is to buy THREE Victron BP-220 and attach one to each 25.8v pair. I presume that would give me 660 amps total?

Regarding your solar setup, any idea how many AH per day you average? Curious how that compares to our setup. We have a bit more rated capacity and we're doing parallel as noted before.  Also, do you have any concerns with your MPPT getting wet? We definitely use that wet locker for...wet items. 

The Victron Quattro also allows you to limit the input on both the 230v inputs. I leave the genset at 50amps but adjust the shore power as appropriate. That was very useful in Greece when we were "plugged into" someone's house circuit. Limiting it to 8 amps prevented constantly tripping their circuit breaker. :)

Regarding your shop vac'ing the engine room, we all get our kicks from somewhere I guess! My joy is in using the electric kettle and the microwave when I'm too lazy to do a proper meal and not having to fire up the genset.

To figure out SOC and charging voltage, I just played around. For example, my Mastervolt Alpha Pro2 set at 27.5v absorption will stop charging at about 90-93% SOC as reported on the Victron BMV-712 monitor. As you probably know, lifepo4 has very stable voltage until you hit the "knees" at near 0% SOC and 100% SOC. So you just have to play with it. I bet at 26.8v absorption, it'd be just about right for long term storage/docking.

I probably sound like a Victron rep, too, but like you, I just continued with choices made prior. My ecosystem lock-in with Victron started with the BlueSolar MPPT, which ironically I don't love!

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com




Matt Salatino
 

You, sir, are correct!
Amps is an instantaneous measurement of current.
Amp hours are over time.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Sep 27, 2019, at 11:19 AM, hanspeter baettig <hanspeter.baettig@...> wrote:

Hi Matt
only to be correct, mybe you also mix something
Amps are not power
Amps are current
Power (el) is Watt

Regards
Hanspeter
----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----
Von : helmsmatt@...
Datum : 27/09/2019 - 13:56 (MS)
An : main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Betreff : Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Converting my Amel 54 to lithium batteries: what I did, what I like and what I don't like (after one year of full time live aboard use)

Paul, you may be mixing up amps and amp-hours (ah).
Amps is the real-time power.
Ah is over a time period.

~~~ ⛵️~~~ Matt

On Sep 27, 2019, at 3:20 AM, Paul Brown < feeder.brown@...> wrote:

Hello Thomas, as a matter of interest could you please let me know the specifications of solar panels and configuration? 200ah is excellent generation and I’m wanting to double my 600w/24 solar, it produces around 15ah in direct sun light.

Kind regards Paul
Fortuna II 55/17


On 27 Sep 2019, at 5:15 am, Sv Garulfo < svgarulfo@...> wrote:


Solar perf:
I measured 5.5kWh in 24h, so 229Ah @ 24V nominal, but really 200Ah at 27.5V which is more the battery voltage. Interestingly, a slight overcast seems to be beneficial to solar production. 

90%SOC management:
I dug a bit more in the BMS configuration and the MasterVolt BMS triggers events at various SOC; >20%, >40%, >60%, >80% and ‘battery full’ which is 95% by default but configurable to other level. Those events can be used to control other components on the MasterBus, like buzzing the EasyView5, switching the chargers to float phase, or stopping them altogether. 
I need to test that and, in particular, confirm what happens to the chargers when the level goes back below ‘battery full’, but it could be the solution to long term dock SOC management in the MasterVolt ecosystem. 

Best,
Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Rangiroa, French Polynesia 



On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 at 11:21, Sv Garulfo via Groups.Io <svgarulfo= gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
ML disconnect relay: 
product number 7702B, rated 500A. I have one for each of the 2 batteries. The relays draw no current in ON or OFF state. There are wires to set the relay states depending on what the default state should be. In our setup, the wiring to the battery’s BMS ports is specified explicitly in the documentation so there is no head scratching to do. 


Solar:
We have produced about 100KWh a month historically (~140Ah@24V a day). We are having very good sun at the moment so I’ll measure a max production day today. The max Amps I saw going in was 36A in Curaçao last summer. Our production during the Pacific crossing, Gambier and southern Tuamotus in April-July was pretty poor with cloudy conditions and relatively low sun elevation.

Our wet locker doesn’t get wet. We are lucky to cruise in places were we don’t need foul weather clothes. We quickly vacuum packed and stowed those away. And the Amel cockpit helps with that. 

Yes, breakfast toasts, 2mins of microwave here and there to reheat food, boiling water in 60s or cooking smelly food outside on the portable induction stove. All good examples of how it changes life onboard. 

Long term storage or dock: 
I would say, if we are aboard at the dock, I would let the solar deal with the batteries and use shore power for the others appliances of required. If we are off the boat for a long time, we would just switch everything off and not keep the shore power on. We left the boat in Curaçao for 2months last year and with everything off, the batteries lost less than 5% SOC.

Best,
Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Rangiroa, French Polynesia 




On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 at 09:13, Scott SV Tengah < Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
Thomas, 

Thanks for the reply!

Regarding your ML disconnect relay, which model are you using? For their disconnect relays, I only see 120amp max
https://www.bluesea.com/products/category/37/Non-Critical_Load_Disconnects

Or did you use this charge disconnect? If so, any idea how I could use it with my system? 500amps may just be enough! The VE.BUS BMS load disconnect sends out 27v (more or less) when all is good and goes to open circuit when there is a problem with the batteries and the load needs to be disconnected. The other option, as someone suggested, is to buy THREE Victron BP-220 and attach one to each 25.8v pair. I presume that would give me 660 amps total?

Regarding your solar setup, any idea how many AH per day you average? Curious how that compares to our setup. We have a bit more rated capacity and we're doing parallel as noted before.  Also, do you have any concerns with your MPPT getting wet? We definitely use that wet locker for...wet items. 

The Victron Quattro also allows you to limit the input on both the 230v inputs. I leave the genset at 50amps but adjust the shore power as appropriate. That was very useful in Greece when we were "plugged into" someone's house circuit. Limiting it to 8 amps prevented constantly tripping their circuit breaker. :)

Regarding your shop vac'ing the engine room, we all get our kicks from somewhere I guess! My joy is in using the electric kettle and the microwave when I'm too lazy to do a proper meal and not having to fire up the genset.

To figure out SOC and charging voltage, I just played around. For example, my Mastervolt Alpha Pro2 set at 27.5v absorption will stop charging at about 90-93% SOC as reported on the Victron BMV-712 monitor. As you probably know, lifepo4 has very stable voltage until you hit the "knees" at near 0% SOC and 100% SOC. So you just have to play with it. I bet at 26.8v absorption, it'd be just about right for long term storage/docking.

I probably sound like a Victron rep, too, but like you, I just continued with choices made prior. My ecosystem lock-in with Victron started with the BlueSolar MPPT, which ironically I don't love!

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com




hanspeter baettig
 

Hi Matt
only to be correct, mybe you also mix something
Amps are not power
Amps are current
Power (el) is Watt

Regards
Hanspeter

----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----
Von : helmsmatt@...
Datum : 27/09/2019 - 13:56 (MS)
An : main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Betreff : Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Converting my Amel 54 to lithium batteries: what I did, what I like and what I don't like (after one year of full time live aboard use)

Paul, you may be mixing up amps and amp-hours (ah).
Amps is the real-time power.
Ah is over a time period.

~~~ ⛵️~~~ Matt

On Sep 27, 2019, at 3:20 AM, Paul Brown < feeder.brown@...> wrote:

Hello Thomas, as a matter of interest could you please let me know the specifications of solar panels and configuration? 200ah is excellent generation and I’m wanting to double my 600w/24 solar, it produces around 15ah in direct sun light.

Kind regards Paul
Fortuna II 55/17


On 27 Sep 2019, at 5:15 am, Sv Garulfo < svgarulfo@...> wrote:


Solar perf:
I measured 5.5kWh in 24h, so 229Ah @ 24V nominal, but really 200Ah at 27.5V which is more the battery voltage. Interestingly, a slight overcast seems to be beneficial to solar production. 

90%SOC management:
I dug a bit more in the BMS configuration and the MasterVolt BMS triggers events at various SOC; >20%, >40%, >60%, >80% and ‘battery full’ which is 95% by default but configurable to other level. Those events can be used to control other components on the MasterBus, like buzzing the EasyView5, switching the chargers to float phase, or stopping them altogether. 
I need to test that and, in particular, confirm what happens to the chargers when the level goes back below ‘battery full’, but it could be the solution to long term dock SOC management in the MasterVolt ecosystem. 

Best,
Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Rangiroa, French Polynesia 



On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 at 11:21, Sv Garulfo via Groups.Io <svgarulfo= gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
ML disconnect relay: 
product number 7702B, rated 500A. I have one for each of the 2 batteries. The relays draw no current in ON or OFF state. There are wires to set the relay states depending on what the default state should be. In our setup, the wiring to the battery’s BMS ports is specified explicitly in the documentation so there is no head scratching to do. 


Solar:
We have produced about 100KWh a month historically (~140Ah@24V a day). We are having very good sun at the moment so I’ll measure a max production day today. The max Amps I saw going in was 36A in Curaçao last summer. Our production during the Pacific crossing, Gambier and southern Tuamotus in April-July was pretty poor with cloudy conditions and relatively low sun elevation.

Our wet locker doesn’t get wet. We are lucky to cruise in places were we don’t need foul weather clothes. We quickly vacuum packed and stowed those away. And the Amel cockpit helps with that. 

Yes, breakfast toasts, 2mins of microwave here and there to reheat food, boiling water in 60s or cooking smelly food outside on the portable induction stove. All good examples of how it changes life onboard. 

Long term storage or dock: 
I would say, if we are aboard at the dock, I would let the solar deal with the batteries and use shore power for the others appliances of required. If we are off the boat for a long time, we would just switch everything off and not keep the shore power on. We left the boat in Curaçao for 2months last year and with everything off, the batteries lost less than 5% SOC.

Best,
Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Rangiroa, French Polynesia 




On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 at 09:13, Scott SV Tengah < Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
Thomas, 

Thanks for the reply!

Regarding your ML disconnect relay, which model are you using? For their disconnect relays, I only see 120amp max
https://www.bluesea.com/products/category/37/Non-Critical_Load_Disconnects

Or did you use this charge disconnect? If so, any idea how I could use it with my system? 500amps may just be enough! The VE.BUS BMS load disconnect sends out 27v (more or less) when all is good and goes to open circuit when there is a problem with the batteries and the load needs to be disconnected. The other option, as someone suggested, is to buy THREE Victron BP-220 and attach one to each 25.8v pair. I presume that would give me 660 amps total?

Regarding your solar setup, any idea how many AH per day you average? Curious how that compares to our setup. We have a bit more rated capacity and we're doing parallel as noted before.  Also, do you have any concerns with your MPPT getting wet? We definitely use that wet locker for...wet items. 

The Victron Quattro also allows you to limit the input on both the 230v inputs. I leave the genset at 50amps but adjust the shore power as appropriate. That was very useful in Greece when we were "plugged into" someone's house circuit. Limiting it to 8 amps prevented constantly tripping their circuit breaker. :)

Regarding your shop vac'ing the engine room, we all get our kicks from somewhere I guess! My joy is in using the electric kettle and the microwave when I'm too lazy to do a proper meal and not having to fire up the genset.

To figure out SOC and charging voltage, I just played around. For example, my Mastervolt Alpha Pro2 set at 27.5v absorption will stop charging at about 90-93% SOC as reported on the Victron BMV-712 monitor. As you probably know, lifepo4 has very stable voltage until you hit the "knees" at near 0% SOC and 100% SOC. So you just have to play with it. I bet at 26.8v absorption, it'd be just about right for long term storage/docking.

I probably sound like a Victron rep, too, but like you, I just continued with choices made prior. My ecosystem lock-in with Victron started with the BlueSolar MPPT, which ironically I don't love!

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com




Matt Salatino
 

Paul, you may be mixing up amps and amp-hours (ah).
Amps is the real-time power.
Ah is over a time period.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Sep 27, 2019, at 3:20 AM, Paul Brown <feeder.brown@...> wrote:

Hello Thomas, as a matter of interest could you please let me know the specifications of solar panels and configuration? 200ah is excellent generation and I’m wanting to double my 600w/24 solar, it produces around 15ah in direct sun light.

Kind regards Paul
Fortuna II 55/17


On 27 Sep 2019, at 5:15 am, Sv Garulfo <svgarulfo@...> wrote:


Solar perf:
I measured 5.5kWh in 24h, so 229Ah @ 24V nominal, but really 200Ah at 27.5V which is more the battery voltage. Interestingly, a slight overcast seems to be beneficial to solar production. 

90%SOC management:
I dug a bit more in the BMS configuration and the MasterVolt BMS triggers events at various SOC; >20%, >40%, >60%, >80% and ‘battery full’ which is 95% by default but configurable to other level. Those events can be used to control other components on the MasterBus, like buzzing the EasyView5, switching the chargers to float phase, or stopping them altogether. 
I need to test that and, in particular, confirm what happens to the chargers when the level goes back below ‘battery full’, but it could be the solution to long term dock SOC management in the MasterVolt ecosystem. 

Best,
Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Rangiroa, French Polynesia 



On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 at 11:21, Sv Garulfo via Groups.Io <svgarulfo=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
ML disconnect relay: 
product number 7702B, rated 500A. I have one for each of the 2 batteries. The relays draw no current in ON or OFF state. There are wires to set the relay states depending on what the default state should be. In our setup, the wiring to the battery’s BMS ports is specified explicitly in the documentation so there is no head scratching to do. 


Solar:
We have produced about 100KWh a month historically (~140Ah@24V a day). We are having very good sun at the moment so I’ll measure a max production day today. The max Amps I saw going in was 36A in Curaçao last summer. Our production during the Pacific crossing, Gambier and southern Tuamotus in April-July was pretty poor with cloudy conditions and relatively low sun elevation.

Our wet locker doesn’t get wet. We are lucky to cruise in places were we don’t need foul weather clothes. We quickly vacuum packed and stowed those away. And the Amel cockpit helps with that. 

Yes, breakfast toasts, 2mins of microwave here and there to reheat food, boiling water in 60s or cooking smelly food outside on the portable induction stove. All good examples of how it changes life onboard. 

Long term storage or dock: 
I would say, if we are aboard at the dock, I would let the solar deal with the batteries and use shore power for the others appliances of required. If we are off the boat for a long time, we would just switch everything off and not keep the shore power on. We left the boat in Curaçao for 2months last year and with everything off, the batteries lost less than 5% SOC.

Best,
Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Rangiroa, French Polynesia 




On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 at 09:13, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
Thomas, 

Thanks for the reply!

Regarding your ML disconnect relay, which model are you using? For their disconnect relays, I only see 120amp max
https://www.bluesea.com/products/category/37/Non-Critical_Load_Disconnects

Or did you use this charge disconnect? If so, any idea how I could use it with my system? 500amps may just be enough! The VE.BUS BMS load disconnect sends out 27v (more or less) when all is good and goes to open circuit when there is a problem with the batteries and the load needs to be disconnected. The other option, as someone suggested, is to buy THREE Victron BP-220 and attach one to each 25.8v pair. I presume that would give me 660 amps total?

Regarding your solar setup, any idea how many AH per day you average? Curious how that compares to our setup. We have a bit more rated capacity and we're doing parallel as noted before.  Also, do you have any concerns with your MPPT getting wet? We definitely use that wet locker for...wet items. 

The Victron Quattro also allows you to limit the input on both the 230v inputs. I leave the genset at 50amps but adjust the shore power as appropriate. That was very useful in Greece when we were "plugged into" someone's house circuit. Limiting it to 8 amps prevented constantly tripping their circuit breaker. :)

Regarding your shop vac'ing the engine room, we all get our kicks from somewhere I guess! My joy is in using the electric kettle and the microwave when I'm too lazy to do a proper meal and not having to fire up the genset.

To figure out SOC and charging voltage, I just played around. For example, my Mastervolt Alpha Pro2 set at 27.5v absorption will stop charging at about 90-93% SOC as reported on the Victron BMV-712 monitor. As you probably know, lifepo4 has very stable voltage until you hit the "knees" at near 0% SOC and 100% SOC. So you just have to play with it. I bet at 26.8v absorption, it'd be just about right for long term storage/docking.

I probably sound like a Victron rep, too, but like you, I just continued with choices made prior. My ecosystem lock-in with Victron started with the BlueSolar MPPT, which ironically I don't love!

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Paul Brown
 

Hello Thomas, as a matter of interest could you please let me know the specifications of solar panels and configuration? 200ah is excellent generation and I’m wanting to double my 600w/24 solar, it produces around 15ah in direct sun light.

Kind regards Paul
Fortuna II 55/17


On 27 Sep 2019, at 5:15 am, Sv Garulfo <svgarulfo@...> wrote:


Solar perf:
I measured 5.5kWh in 24h, so 229Ah @ 24V nominal, but really 200Ah at 27.5V which is more the battery voltage. Interestingly, a slight overcast seems to be beneficial to solar production. 

90%SOC management:
I dug a bit more in the BMS configuration and the MasterVolt BMS triggers events at various SOC; >20%, >40%, >60%, >80% and ‘battery full’ which is 95% by default but configurable to other level. Those events can be used to control other components on the MasterBus, like buzzing the EasyView5, switching the chargers to float phase, or stopping them altogether. 
I need to test that and, in particular, confirm what happens to the chargers when the level goes back below ‘battery full’, but it could be the solution to long term dock SOC management in the MasterVolt ecosystem. 

Best,
Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Rangiroa, French Polynesia 



On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 at 11:21, Sv Garulfo via Groups.Io <svgarulfo=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
ML disconnect relay: 
product number 7702B, rated 500A. I have one for each of the 2 batteries. The relays draw no current in ON or OFF state. There are wires to set the relay states depending on what the default state should be. In our setup, the wiring to the battery’s BMS ports is specified explicitly in the documentation so there is no head scratching to do. 


Solar:
We have produced about 100KWh a month historically (~140Ah@24V a day). We are having very good sun at the moment so I’ll measure a max production day today. The max Amps I saw going in was 36A in Curaçao last summer. Our production during the Pacific crossing, Gambier and southern Tuamotus in April-July was pretty poor with cloudy conditions and relatively low sun elevation.

Our wet locker doesn’t get wet. We are lucky to cruise in places were we don’t need foul weather clothes. We quickly vacuum packed and stowed those away. And the Amel cockpit helps with that. 

Yes, breakfast toasts, 2mins of microwave here and there to reheat food, boiling water in 60s or cooking smelly food outside on the portable induction stove. All good examples of how it changes life onboard. 

Long term storage or dock: 
I would say, if we are aboard at the dock, I would let the solar deal with the batteries and use shore power for the others appliances of required. If we are off the boat for a long time, we would just switch everything off and not keep the shore power on. We left the boat in Curaçao for 2months last year and with everything off, the batteries lost less than 5% SOC.

Best,
Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Rangiroa, French Polynesia 




On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 at 09:13, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
Thomas, 

Thanks for the reply!

Regarding your ML disconnect relay, which model are you using? For their disconnect relays, I only see 120amp max
https://www.bluesea.com/products/category/37/Non-Critical_Load_Disconnects

Or did you use this charge disconnect? If so, any idea how I could use it with my system? 500amps may just be enough! The VE.BUS BMS load disconnect sends out 27v (more or less) when all is good and goes to open circuit when there is a problem with the batteries and the load needs to be disconnected. The other option, as someone suggested, is to buy THREE Victron BP-220 and attach one to each 25.8v pair. I presume that would give me 660 amps total?

Regarding your solar setup, any idea how many AH per day you average? Curious how that compares to our setup. We have a bit more rated capacity and we're doing parallel as noted before.  Also, do you have any concerns with your MPPT getting wet? We definitely use that wet locker for...wet items. 

The Victron Quattro also allows you to limit the input on both the 230v inputs. I leave the genset at 50amps but adjust the shore power as appropriate. That was very useful in Greece when we were "plugged into" someone's house circuit. Limiting it to 8 amps prevented constantly tripping their circuit breaker. :)

Regarding your shop vac'ing the engine room, we all get our kicks from somewhere I guess! My joy is in using the electric kettle and the microwave when I'm too lazy to do a proper meal and not having to fire up the genset.

To figure out SOC and charging voltage, I just played around. For example, my Mastervolt Alpha Pro2 set at 27.5v absorption will stop charging at about 90-93% SOC as reported on the Victron BMV-712 monitor. As you probably know, lifepo4 has very stable voltage until you hit the "knees" at near 0% SOC and 100% SOC. So you just have to play with it. I bet at 26.8v absorption, it'd be just about right for long term storage/docking.

I probably sound like a Victron rep, too, but like you, I just continued with choices made prior. My ecosystem lock-in with Victron started with the BlueSolar MPPT, which ironically I don't love!

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com