Topics

Mast foot rubber seal pad


Rudolf Waldispuehl
 

Hi Folks 

The mast foot rubber pad on my boat is quite brown and very brittle. I’m a bit nervous that it will leak one day (see pictures). 

I heard from Barry “Lady Penelope II” that he changed the Mast-Foot Rubber Pad in Hieres recently. 

 

I asked AMEL and got the answer that they haven’t done it very often and I should not worry about it. “Even it looks ugly and very worn there is no need to change it”, Amel said. In Hieres they did it first time 2 weeks ago with “Lady Penelope II”. Barry mentioned the rubber was like fluid and I’m confused about the answers from AMEL. 

What is your experience and who has done it on their SM or 54 over the years? 

 

Thanks a lot and kind regards

Ruedi 

 

SY-WASABI 

AMEL 54#55

Sicily


Roque
 

Hi Ruedi

If the leak you are worried about is water getting inside the boat, then don’t. This pad is not intended to seal that.

It is made out of PU (polyurethane), 90 SH (“hardness”), 5 mm thick. Several A54 reported a short life span of this material. Mine was paper thin after 8 years. The Mizzen pad usually holds longer.

I have discussed this with a few experienced Amel owners and with a very knowledgeable Naval Engineer who build boats over 100 ft. and it seems that replacing it with phenolic laminated (such as Tufnol), would be an improvement. It is a little harder (103 SH), though. 

Regarding Amel statement that “Even if it looks ugly and very worn there is no need to change it”, I would only add that, as it gets thinner and thinner, you have to check and adjust the standing rigging. 

Enjoy Sicily

Roque

Attika A54 117

Paraty- Rio de Janeiro


Em qua, 18 de set de 2019 às 06:48, Rudolf Waldispuehl <Rudolf@...> escreveu:

Hi Folks 

The mast foot rubber pad on my boat is quite brown and very brittle. I’m a bit nervous that it will leak one day (see pictures). 

I heard from Barry “Lady Penelope II” that he changed the Mast-Foot Rubber Pad in Hieres recently. 

 

I asked AMEL and got the answer that they haven’t done it very often and I should not worry about it. “Even it looks ugly and very worn there is no need to change it”, Amel said. In Hieres they did it first time 2 weeks ago with “Lady Penelope II”. Barry mentioned the rubber was like fluid and I’m confused about the answers from AMEL. 

What is your experience and who has done it on their SM or 54 over the years? 

 

Thanks a lot and kind regards

Ruedi 

 

SY-WASABI 

AMEL 54#55

Sicily


ngtnewington Newington
 

Hi Ruedi,

The pad under my mast is pretty feeble and crumbly. I have scraped it out and regularly blast it with fresh water. It is barely visible now. As for the rig tension, to my eye the main mast on Amelia could do with a touch more rake aft, so I have left the forstay and staysail stay and baby stay  as they were and tensioned the rest a turn or two. It is all bar taught and even when sailing in say 15 knots true wind the lee shrouds are still very firm. I have also had a good look at the mast base when sailing upwind at 9 knots boat speed, dropping off waves. There is no movement. So I am happy to leave it be until such a time that I pull the mast down when I will have a new Tufnol one made.

Happy sailing

Nick
Amelia 
AML 54-019

On 18 Sep 2019, at 16:47, Roque <ediroque@...> wrote:

Hi Ruedi

If the leak you are worried about is water getting inside the boat, then don’t. This pad is not intended to seal that.

It is made out of PU (polyurethane), 90 SH (“hardness”), 5 mm thick. Several A54 reported a short life span of this material. Mine was paper thin after 8 years. The Mizzen pad usually holds longer.

I have discussed this with a few experienced Amel owners and with a very knowledgeable Naval Engineer who build boats over 100 ft. and it seems that replacing it with phenolic laminated (such as Tufnol), would be an improvement. It is a little harder (103 SH), though. 

Regarding Amel statement that “Even if it looks ugly and very worn there is no need to change it”, I would only add that, as it gets thinner and thinner, you have to check and adjust the standing rigging. 

Enjoy Sicily

Roque

Attika A54 117

Paraty- Rio de Janeiro


Em qua, 18 de set de 2019 às 06:48, Rudolf Waldispuehl <Rudolf@...> escreveu:
Hi Folks 

The mast foot rubber pad on my boat is quite brown and very brittle. I’m a bit nervous that it will leak one day (see pictures). 
I heard from Barry “Lady Penelope II” that he changed the Mast-Foot Rubber Pad in Hieres recently. 

 

I asked AMEL and got the answer that they haven’t done it very often and I should not worry about it. “Even it looks ugly and very worn there is no need to change it”, Amel said. In Hieres they did it first time 2 weeks ago with “Lady Penelope II”. Barry mentioned the rubber was like fluid and I’m confused about the answers from AMEL. 
What is your experience and who has done it on their SM or 54 over the years? 

 

Thanks a lot and kind regards
Ruedi 

 

SY-WASABI 
AMEL 54#55
Sicily




Arno Luijten
 

Hi Ruedi,
Strange answer you have got from Amel as the crew in Martinique has even build a special rig to replace the pad with a standing mast. It is meant to dampen the forces of the mast on the deck when sailing turbulent seas. Mine was replaced when I bought the boat (July 2018), nine years old. The one under the mizzen does not receive much pounding so it stays much better over time.

Regards,

Arno
SV Luna,
A54-121


ngtnewington Newington
 

Hi Arno,

Did the guys in Martinique actually tell you the pad was to dampen the load on the deck when pounding?

I can not imagine that there will really be any give in it, after the rig is tensioned. The worst thing for a mast is for it to go slack and then tight again. If the pad really is for that purpose then that is what would happen, obviously to a very small degree. The compression load on that mast base must be immense. If we say that the rigging is tensioned to 50% of the wire strength and work out the angles, the downward vector of all the shroud tensions added together must be in the order of 50-100 tons. (very quick mental arithmetic)

Although Amels are very well constructed there must be much more spring in the whole structure of the boat than that 5mm plate. All boats bend a little, which is most of the reason that when sailing in a stiff breeze there is much less tension on the leeward shrouds. That and the stretch the wire itself, which is actually quite a lot.

I do not know for sure but I think the pad is to prevent the paint on the base of the mast from chipping. As you point out it is interesting to note that the mizzen plate lasts longer. Maybe that is not from less compression but because it is less exposed to sun and sea. It is interesting, and I would like to know for sure.

Nick
Amelia 
AML54-019

On 18 Sep 2019, at 18:19, Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

Hi Ruedi,
Strange answer you have got from Amel as the crew in Martinique has even build a special rig to replace the pad with a standing mast. It is meant to dampen the forces of the mast on the deck when sailing turbulent seas. Mine was replaced when I bought the boat (July 2018), nine years old. The one under the mizzen does not receive much pounding so it stays much better over time.

Regards,

Arno
SV Luna,
A54-121


Porter McRoberts
 

Our main past pad is nearly nonexistent now. Plan to change it in NZ. The shrouds are still incredibly tight, on the lee side as well.  I suspect a slight loosening of the forestay. When changing load directions there is a small shimmy in the boat which I suspect is new, but I doubt myself. 
Regardless, the rig seems tight and integrous (with a magnifying glass at the shroud based) but plan on a change in NZ, the primary reason being this pad, and going into the 10th year new wire seems prudent. 

I am considering doing the rewire myself, ordering the ACMO and then having a rigger check my work vs, since I have to get a crane to lift the mast, just have the whole thing done by a rigger- wire and all. 

The only reason I have to pull the mast is this mast pad: has anyone seen the Martinique gizmo that obviates that need in order to replace the pad?  

Any experience with rerigging one’s self?

Any suggestions for a rigger around Auckland?  

As always thanks for your help. This forum is such a wonderful resource. 


Porter McRoberts 
A54-152
Vava’u Tonga


Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Sep 19, 2019, at 6:54 AM, ngtnewington Newington via Groups.Io <ngtnewington@...> wrote:

Hi Arno,

Did the guys in Martinique actually tell you the pad was to dampen the load on the deck when pounding?

I can not imagine that there will really be any give in it, after the rig is tensioned. The worst thing for a mast is for it to go slack and then tight again. If the pad really is for that purpose then that is what would happen, obviously to a very small degree. The compression load on that mast base must be immense. If we say that the rigging is tensioned to 50% of the wire strength and work out the angles, the downward vector of all the shroud tensions added together must be in the order of 50-100 tons. (very quick mental arithmetic)

Although Amels are very well constructed there must be much more spring in the whole structure of the boat than that 5mm plate. All boats bend a little, which is most of the reason that when sailing in a stiff breeze there is much less tension on the leeward shrouds. That and the stretch the wire itself, which is actually quite a lot.

I do not know for sure but I think the pad is to prevent the paint on the base of the mast from chipping. As you point out it is interesting to note that the mizzen plate lasts longer. Maybe that is not from less compression but because it is less exposed to sun and sea. It is interesting, and I would like to know for sure.

Nick
Amelia 
AML54-019
On 18 Sep 2019, at 18:19, Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

Hi Ruedi,
Strange answer you have got from Amel as the crew in Martinique has even build a special rig to replace the pad with a standing mast. It is meant to dampen the forces of the mast on the deck when sailing turbulent seas. Mine was replaced when I bought the boat (July 2018), nine years old. The one under the mizzen does not receive much pounding so it stays much better over time.

Regards,

Arno
SV Luna,
A54-121


 

Porter,

One of the best Amel riggers is Phil Ash, Gulf Harbour Rigging in Gulf harbour Marina.
Gulf Harbour Rigging
Gulf Harbour Marina
P.O.Box 729
Whangaparaoa 0943
Auckland
New Zealand
Phone: +64 9 424 1320
Mobile: +64 27 292 7198
Email: phil"at"gulfharbourrigging.co.nz

The Amel Matinique tool is basically a custom metal frame used with a hydraulic jack that lifts the mast just high enough to replace the mast pad. I have seen it, but do not have a photo of it.


--
CW Bill Rouse Amel Yacht Owners School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   


On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 1:16 PM Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io <portermcroberts=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Our main past pad is nearly nonexistent now. Plan to change it in NZ. The shrouds are still incredibly tight, on the lee side as well.  I suspect a slight loosening of the forestay. When changing load directions there is a small shimmy in the boat which I suspect is new, but I doubt myself. 
Regardless, the rig seems tight and integrous (with a magnifying glass at the shroud based) but plan on a change in NZ, the primary reason being this pad, and going into the 10th year new wire seems prudent. 

I am considering doing the rewire myself, ordering the ACMO and then having a rigger check my work vs, since I have to get a crane to lift the mast, just have the whole thing done by a rigger- wire and all. 

The only reason I have to pull the mast is this mast pad: has anyone seen the Martinique gizmo that obviates that need in order to replace the pad?  

Any experience with rerigging one’s self?

Any suggestions for a rigger around Auckland?  

As always thanks for your help. This forum is such a wonderful resource. 


Porter McRoberts 
A54-152
Vava’u Tonga


Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Sep 19, 2019, at 6:54 AM, ngtnewington Newington via Groups.Io <ngtnewington@...> wrote:

Hi Arno,

Did the guys in Martinique actually tell you the pad was to dampen the load on the deck when pounding?

I can not imagine that there will really be any give in it, after the rig is tensioned. The worst thing for a mast is for it to go slack and then tight again. If the pad really is for that purpose then that is what would happen, obviously to a very small degree. The compression load on that mast base must be immense. If we say that the rigging is tensioned to 50% of the wire strength and work out the angles, the downward vector of all the shroud tensions added together must be in the order of 50-100 tons. (very quick mental arithmetic)

Although Amels are very well constructed there must be much more spring in the whole structure of the boat than that 5mm plate. All boats bend a little, which is most of the reason that when sailing in a stiff breeze there is much less tension on the leeward shrouds. That and the stretch the wire itself, which is actually quite a lot.

I do not know for sure but I think the pad is to prevent the paint on the base of the mast from chipping. As you point out it is interesting to note that the mizzen plate lasts longer. Maybe that is not from less compression but because it is less exposed to sun and sea. It is interesting, and I would like to know for sure.

Nick
Amelia 
AML54-019
On 18 Sep 2019, at 18:19, Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

Hi Ruedi,
Strange answer you have got from Amel as the crew in Martinique has even build a special rig to replace the pad with a standing mast. It is meant to dampen the forces of the mast on the deck when sailing turbulent seas. Mine was replaced when I bought the boat (July 2018), nine years old. The one under the mizzen does not receive much pounding so it stays much better over time.

Regards,

Arno
SV Luna,
A54-121


Arno Luijten
 

Hi Nick,

I’m not implying you mast is dancing on the deck in rough seas but as you rightfully say there is flexibility in the stays, the hull itself and what have you not. As both the deck under the mast and the underside of the mast have quite hard surfaces, the pad is just there to take the edge off the impact, much like the silent blocks in the suspension of a car.
Regrettably I was not there when they replaced the pad, but someone told me they use a rig that has some hydraulic jacks. You could ask them about it.

Regards,

Arno,
SV Luna,
A54-121