Topics

seals orientation

Craig & Katherine Briggs SN 68 Sangaris Tropic Isle Harbor, FL
 
Edited

Hello José,
While on the subject of seal orientation, some time ago (maybe 2-3 years?), you installed your prop shaft seals in a different orientation than the "Amel way".  I recall you had the three seals, from front to back (first to last when installing) with the first two facing out (open side toward the sea) and the last one facing in (open side toward oil). Your logic was great - that we're trying to keep water out and so have the maximum protection of the first two do just that, with any oil seepage giving lubrication and the outer seal stopping oil from escaping to sea.

How has that worked out - is your oil still pristine?

Great timing on getting out of a chilly Boston!
Best regards, Craig

Jose Venegas
 

Craig
Still pristine and constant oil level
Jose
Ipanema
Sm278

eric freedman
 

HI Jose,
How many hours do you have on the seals, and what type of grease did you use
on them?
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

-----Original Message-----
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Jose Venegas via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2019 8:37 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] seals orientation

Craig
Still pristine and constant oil level
Jose
Ipanema
Sm278

karkauai
 

That is how I have been orienting my seals for the last seven years now. I have had no water ingress, and no loss of oil.

Kent
Kristy
SM 243


On Oct 25, 2019, at 8:44 AM, eric freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:
HI Jose,
How many hours do you have on the seals, and what type of grease did you use
on them?
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376



-----Original Message-----
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Jose Venegas via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2019 8:37 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] seals orientation

Craig
Still pristine and constant oil level
Jose
Ipanema
Sm278

Scott SV Tengah
 

I'd be interested to hear how many hours you all have on your seals, too.

We did the two aft seals with the spring facing sea water and the forward two seals with spring facing the oil. So far 600 hours and zero drop in oil and zero water ingress. But I see the logic behind Jose's method with any oil leaking past the single forward seal lubricating the aft two seals.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

 

Many of you know my thoughts on this and I will not bore you with why I believe the Amel way is the best way.

I don't want to start an argument and I respect each owner's opinion....but, I cannot let this continue without saying something. There are plenty of newbies in this group who may not understand the correct procedure and the risks.

Ask yourself this question: 
Which is more important? Keeping oil in the C-Drive, or keeping water out? And if you had a chance to cut the chance of one of these risks occurring in half, which would you choose? 
Oil in? Or, water out?

The biggest reason, in fact the only reason, that I have witnessed for either oil leaking out or water leaking in, is the person doing the job actually did not do it correctly. There were important steps, either omitted or done wrong. There are correct seals and incorrect seals. There are Amel OEM wear bushings and knock-offs. 

My recommendation is to: Do the job as though Henri Amel is looking over your shoulder. I believe he is.

--
CW Bill Rouse Amel Yacht Owners School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   


On Sat, Oct 26, 2019 at 9:32 AM Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
I'd be interested to hear how many hours you all have on your seals, too.

We did the two aft seals with the spring facing sea water and the forward two seals with spring facing the oil. So far 600 hours and zero drop in oil and zero water ingress. But I see the logic behind Jose's method with any oil leaking past the single forward seal lubricating the aft two seals.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Randall
 

Hello Bill,

I am new to my AMEL 54. I have seen a couple of videos on changing the seals out, but do you have the how to you like, and is it available. I'm splashing in one month.

I remember all the Nikimat how to info posted publicly. and the many other people who have posted on their own sites and on YouTube. A library of sorts would be nice.

It was sad to see Nikimat after Irma.
Randall
A-54 #56


From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...>
Sent: October 26, 2019 11:01 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] seals orientation
 
Many of you know my thoughts on this and I will not bore you with why I believe the Amel way is the best way.

I don't want to start an argument and I respect each owner's opinion....but, I cannot let this continue without saying something. There are plenty of newbies in this group who may not understand the correct procedure and the risks.

Ask yourself this question: 
Which is more important? Keeping oil in the C-Drive, or keeping water out? And if you had a chance to cut the chance of one of these risks occurring in half, which would you choose? 
Oil in? Or, water out?

The biggest reason, in fact the only reason, that I have witnessed for either oil leaking out or water leaking in, is the person doing the job actually did not do it correctly. There were important steps, either omitted or done wrong. There are correct seals and incorrect seals. There are Amel OEM wear bushings and knock-offs. 

My recommendation is to: Do the job as though Henri Amel is looking over your shoulder. I believe he is.

--
CW Bill Rouse Amel Yacht Owners School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   


On Sat, Oct 26, 2019 at 9:32 AM Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
I'd be interested to hear how many hours you all have on your seals, too.

We did the two aft seals with the spring facing sea water and the forward two seals with spring facing the oil. So far 600 hours and zero drop in oil and zero water ingress. But I see the logic behind Jose's method with any oil leaking past the single forward seal lubricating the aft two seals.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Mohammad Shirloo
 

I will also throw in my 2 cents. One of the major reasons we elected to buy an Amel, was that the boat concept, its design and systems had been tested for decades, in conditions that we expected to encounter.

It is my belief that any design can be improved on. However without sufficient of real world testing, the success of the improvement is only theoretical. Design changes sometimes have unintended consequences that only show up after time. In my opinion, if there is a proven design, on a critical system that has performed for decades if done correctly, should not be changed without sufficient real world testing.

Happy Sailing;

Mohammad & Aty
Amel 54 #099
B&B Kokomo

On Oct 26, 2019, at 8:01 AM, CW Bill Rouse via Groups.Io <brouse@...> wrote:

Many of you know my thoughts on this and I will not bore you with why I believe the Amel way is the best way.

I don't want to start an argument and I respect each owner's opinion....but, I cannot let this continue without saying something. There are plenty of newbies in this group who may not understand the correct procedure and the risks.

Ask yourself this question: 
Which is more important? Keeping oil in the C-Drive, or keeping water out? And if you had a chance to cut the chance of one of these risks occurring in half, which would you choose? 
Oil in? Or, water out?

The biggest reason, in fact the only reason, that I have witnessed for either oil leaking out or water leaking in, is the person doing the job actually did not do it correctly. There were important steps, either omitted or done wrong. There are correct seals and incorrect seals. There are Amel OEM wear bushings and knock-offs. 

My recommendation is to: Do the job as though Henri Amel is looking over your shoulder. I believe he is.

--
CW Bill Rouse Amel Yacht Owners School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   


On Sat, Oct 26, 2019 at 9:32 AM Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
I'd be interested to hear how many hours you all have on your seals, too.

We did the two aft seals with the spring facing sea water and the forward two seals with spring facing the oil. So far 600 hours and zero drop in oil and zero water ingress. But I see the logic behind Jose's method with any oil leaking past the single forward seal lubricating the aft two seals.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Arnold Mente
 

Hello, I'm Arnold with the SM 203 Zephyr,
In March 2019, in Nice, I changed the seals with Amel OEM. After 150 hours of engine and 1600 NM, I was able to detect a water ingress in the C-Drive. Of course I ordered the new seals from Maude. In the discussion with the mechanic, he drew my attention to the spring rings of Amel, as they were magnetic after the test. I am currently ashore and have exchanged the two rear spring washers for O-rings to counteract the corrosion on the seawater side. Whereby I would like to follow the installation position of Amel.
In the meantime I decided to use only 1.4571 spring washers.
After the discussion is already very lively, I would be glad about a feedback.
Sorry my english !!

Arnold
SY Zephyr SM 203
in Grado northern Adriatic

Am 26.10.2019 um 17:40 schrieb Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...>:

I will also throw in my 2 cents. One of the major reasons we elected to buy an Amel, was that the boat concept, its design and systems had been tested for decades, in conditions that we expected to encounter.

It is my belief that any design can be improved on. However without sufficient of real world testing, the success of the improvement is only theoretical. Design changes sometimes have unintended consequences that only show up after time. In my opinion, if there is a proven design, on a critical system that has performed for decades if done correctly, should not be changed without sufficient real world testing.

Happy Sailing;

Mohammad & Aty
Amel 54 #099
B&B Kokomo

On Oct 26, 2019, at 8:01 AM, CW Bill Rouse via Groups.Io <brouse@...> wrote:

Many of you know my thoughts on this and I will not bore you with why I believe the Amel way is the best way.

I don't want to start an argument and I respect each owner's opinion....but, I cannot let this continue without saying something. There are plenty of newbies in this group who may not understand the correct procedure and the risks.

Ask yourself this question: 
Which is more important? Keeping oil in the C-Drive, or keeping water out? And if you had a chance to cut the chance of one of these risks occurring in half, which would you choose? 
Oil in? Or, water out?

The biggest reason, in fact the only reason, that I have witnessed for either oil leaking out or water leaking in, is the person doing the job actually did not do it correctly. There were important steps, either omitted or done wrong. There are correct seals and incorrect seals. There are Amel OEM wear bushings and knock-offs. 

My recommendation is to: Do the job as though Henri Amel is looking over your shoulder. I believe he is.

--
CW Bill Rouse Amel Yacht Owners School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   


On Sat, Oct 26, 2019 at 9:32 AM Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
I'd be interested to hear how many hours you all have on your seals, too.

We did the two aft seals with the spring facing sea water and the forward two seals with spring facing the oil. So far 600 hours and zero drop in oil and zero water ingress. But I see the logic behind Jose's method with any oil leaking past the single forward seal lubricating the aft two seals.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com



Arnold Mente

Urbaniweg 12
7000 Eisenstadt 

Tel: +43 660 6699019

arnold.mente@...




--
SY Zephyr SM203

Craig & Katherine Briggs SN 68 Sangaris Tropic Isle Harbor, FL
 
Edited

Hi Arnold,
I assume when you say the springs of the Amel supplied lip seals were magnetic you (or your mechanic) concluded they were not Stainless Steel and therefore you replaced them with O-rings. Actually, Stainless Steel is slightly magnetic and the very thin and lightweight Stainless Steel springs in lip seals will "stick" to a magnet - therefore the "test" your mechanic performed was not definitive.

You must rely on the manufacturers specification - there is a Code letter that specifies Stainless Steel Garter Springs. Carbon Steel is usually the default, so you must specifically order stainless steel garter spring. I am sure Amel supplied the correct lip seal and that it did, indeed, have a stainless steel spring. If I recall correctly, Amel ships the lip seals in the manufacturer's box - if so you could check the part number on the box, if you still have it, and see that it indeed is a Stainless Steel Garter Spring.

Cheers, Craig

Arnold Mente
 

Hi Craig,

 have received the seals loosely in the envelope.
1.4301 / V2A / 304 is not seawater resistant. Only 1.4571 / V4A / 316 with 2% molybdenum (is pure austenitic) is seawater resistant and non-magnetic! For example, this is why surveyors use a magnet to test the stainless steel components of a yacht.
Otherwise my education would have been wrong.
I would like to see it differently, but with an austenitic steel one finds no magnetism through the transformation of the structure from ferritic to austenitic. In cheap stainless steel parts for yachts produced in the Far East, it often happens that these are made of 304. I have no intention of questioning the delivery of Amel. But why is the spring magnetic? Shaft seals with 316 springs are also difficult to obtain, as my research has shown so far. With 304 on the oil side, I have no problems but the seawater side worries me.

Best, Arnold

Am 26.10.2019 um 19:18 schrieb Craig Briggs SN 68 Sangaris via Groups.Io <sangaris@...>:

[Edited Message Follows]

Hi Arnold,
I assume when you say the springs of the Amel supplied lip seals were magnetic you (or your mechanic) concluded they were not Stainless Steel and therefore you replaced them with O-rings. Actually, Stainless Steel is slightly magnetic and the very thin and lightweight Stainless Steel springs in lip seals will "stick" to a magnet - therefore the "test" your mechanic performed was not definitive.

You must rely on the manufacturers specification - there is a Code letter that specifies Stainless Steel Garter Springs. Carbon Steel is usually the default, so you must specifically order stainless steel garter spring. I am sure Amel supplied the correct lip seal and that it did, indeed, have a stainless steel spring. If I recall correctly, Amel ships the lip seals in the manufacturer's box - if so you could check the part number on the box, if you still have it, and see that it indeed is a Stainless Steel Garter Spring.

Cheers, Craig

Arnold Mente

Urbaniweg 12
7000 Eisenstadt 

Tel: +43 660 6699019

arnold.mente@...




--
SY Zephyr SM203

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi. In 11 years and 50,000 miles of using Amel supplied seals I have never had a failure, and the springs have never been rusty on removal.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 27 October 2019 at 08:02 "Arnold Mente via Groups.Io" <Arnold.mente@...> wrote:

Hi Craig,

 have received the seals loosely in the envelope.
1.4301 / V2A / 304 is not seawater resistant. Only 1.4571 / V4A / 316 with 2% molybdenum (is pure austenitic) is seawater resistant and non-magnetic! For example, this is why surveyors use a magnet to test the stainless steel components of a yacht.
Otherwise my education would have been wrong.
I would like to see it differently, but with an austenitic steel one finds no magnetism through the transformation of the structure from ferritic to austenitic. In cheap stainless steel parts for yachts produced in the Far East, it often happens that these are made of 304. I have no intention of questioning the delivery of Amel. But why is the spring magnetic? Shaft seals with 316 springs are also difficult to obtain, as my research has shown so far. With 304 on the oil side, I have no problems but the seawater side worries me.

Best, Arnold

Am 26.10.2019 um 19:18 schrieb Craig Briggs SN 68 Sangaris via Groups.Io < sangaris@...>:

[Edited Message Follows]

Hi Arnold,
I assume when you say the springs of the Amel supplied lip seals were magnetic you (or your mechanic) concluded they were not Stainless Steel and therefore you replaced them with O-rings. Actually, Stainless Steel is slightly magnetic and the very thin and lightweight Stainless Steel springs in lip seals will "stick" to a magnet - therefore the "test" your mechanic performed was not definitive.

You must rely on the manufacturers specification - there is a Code letter that specifies Stainless Steel Garter Springs. Carbon Steel is usually the default, so you must specifically order stainless steel garter spring. I am sure Amel supplied the correct lip seal and that it did, indeed, have a stainless steel spring. If I recall correctly, Amel ships the lip seals in the manufacturer's box - if so you could check the part number on the box, if you still have it, and see that it indeed is a Stainless Steel Garter Spring.

Cheers, Craig

Arnold Mente

Urbaniweg 12
7000 Eisenstadt 

Tel: +43 660 6699019

arnold.mente@...




 


--
SY Zephyr SM203