Topics

Amel Santorin Specs and Alterations


Orion Martin
 

Good evening everyone,

After many months of struggling between the Super Maramu and the Santorin, we have settled on the Santorin to do a circumnavigation. In the end the main reasons was cost and time. We considered the possibility that a circumnavigation would take three years, in which all likelyhood we would never use the boat again once we had finished. While the SM is the perfect boat for us (if there is such a thing in yachting), the expenses involved to get the boat up to scratch before we even set sail (let alone the cost of the boat) we found hard to justify for a three year trip. So our next option is the Santorin, in which we think we can modify the galley (to include washing machine and extra bench space), modify the portside seating, add air con to the aft cabin, possibly build a solar arch and install lithium batteries, plus standard antifouling paint/servicing/other minor modifications for under $300k AUD(including the purchase of the boat. Any thoughts on this scenario and its feasibility would be most appreciated.

Regarding the Santorin, I have a few burning questions that i haven't been able to source the information for. Does the Santorin have:
- Freezer under salon seating?
- Any aircon? ( and is there space to install aircon units in aft/forward cabins and salon?)
- Is the Santorin 12V or 24V, and what is the advantage of having 24V compared with 12V?
- If I install the lithium batteries in the passageway, is it possible to fit a small generator in the engine room and do I need one? ( If I have lithium batteries and solar arch, I figure I may only have to turn on the main engine once a day to help charge the batteries with the lithium batteries holding enough power to run aircon in aft cabin during the evening).

I understand purchasing a yacht I would most likely not make any money when it came time to sell, though in this case i would hope to break even especially if we went to the trouble of doing these modifications to the Santorin that future buyers would appreciate. The only thing bugging me is whether the total cost involved with such an enterprise would be mostly recovered or I am throwing good money after bad and could perhaps be better off spending more to buy an SM with less headache.

Again thoughts and recommendations greatly appreciated.

Kindest regards 
Orion


Orion Martin
 

P.S. Do Santorins also come with water makers?


Mark & Debbie Mueller
 

My advice would be to become very VERY familiar with both models.  You will then be able to evaluate different vessels and understand what prior owners have or have not done.  One common thread that seems to run through the Amel product line is that Henri did things for a specific reason on a particular model - and that it seems to have worked out well over the years.  I was always told not to change anything on the vessel until you have sailed it for one year; I think it was good advice.

You are entering the mariners world so think seriously about how long major modifications or tasks will take to complete.  Good luck.
--
Mark & Debbie Mueller
Brass Ring  A54


Charles Bell
 

Hello Orion,

I am currently performing a complete refit of an  82 Amel Mango whos scope is similar to what you have described (and is probably wider). (24kwh BattleBorn LiPO4 battery bank, 5x5KW inverters, and all new systems, full paint, new rig, etc...) The interior is ripped out and a Maramu-style interior is being built (tongue-in-cheek are calling it a "MangoMu"). We are even installing *GASP* holding tanks... :)

I have an expensive slide deck on the project and well as hundreds of pictures and videos I can share with you, just send me a PM. If there is wider interest I will figure out a more scalable way to share.

If you (or anyone else) are in the Annapolis area and would like to walk the project and see what is happening, please feel free to let me know.

Charles (& Hae)
SV Saturn
Mango #29


Mark Erdos
 

Orion,

 

I mean the upmost respect as I say this, I do not think the Santorin and adding upgrades is a good plan. You are looking to purchase an Amel and make significant investments and changes. Just the lithium upgrade along is going to cost US$15,000+, Aircon is another US$10,000+ etc (assuming you have an electrical system that can handle the load or you’ll have to make major changes).  Have you considered the cost of ownership while making these upgrades. They will all take considerable time. You will also need an electrician knowledgeable of Amel’s unique floating ground system (a very rare find). Why not buy the SM that already has this stuff. I think you can easily find a well kept Amel in this price range (maybe a tad more). Also keep in mind, in three years when you sell the SM, it will sell for more than the Santorin giving you your extra money back.

 

The best advice I received when purchasing Cream Puff was from Bill Rouse who told me not to change anything for a year. This was very sound advice that prove invaluable. We sailed the eastern USA for the first year of our cruising getting to know our Amel. Only then did we make a couple of changes. We added an arch and solar. We have tried to keep all systems on our vessel as close to the original design as possible. We learned very quickly about the level of detailed thought that went into the vessel design.

 

There is a very good string in this group regarding lithium upgrades. You will find it is not as easy as it sounds. You will also need to change alternators, battery chargers, regulators etc. These are major expensive components for a three year plan. Why not just install good quality batteries. Even if you change them all out midway, this is still 20% of the cost of the upgrade. A good set of Firefly batteries will last more than three years, again 1/3 the cost. I can see adding lithium for a ten year plan, but not a three.

 

I see you make no mention of a washer/dryer. Perhaps the most valuable piece of equipment on our boat is the washer/dryer. We have learned in our travels how doing laundry is a major pain. I can’t imagine cruising full-time without a washer/dryer. This sure has made life on anchor a lot more comfortable.

 

I think your idea of breaking even on upgrades you make to a vessel is a little myopic. All the upgrades will do is sell the vessel faster when it goes to market. You will never recoup monies spent on a boat. If you try, you’ll own the boat longer than planned.

 

My advice, either buy the Santorin and sail it as is. Or, buy the SM and sail it as is. The SM will offer more comforts and in my opinion is easier to sail.

 

This is just my 2¢, I’m sure others will disagree. But, I’d love to see their viewpoints also.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Vista Mar, Panama

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Orion Martin
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2019 8:18 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Amel Santorin Specs and Alterations

 

Good evening everyone,

After many months of struggling between the Super Maramu and the Santorin, we have settled on the Santorin to do a circumnavigation. In the end the main reasons was cost and time. We considered the possibility that a circumnavigation would take three years, in which all likelyhood we would never use the boat again once we had finished. While the SM is the perfect boat for us (if there is such a thing in yachting), the expenses involved to get the boat up to scratch before we even set sail (let alone the cost of the boat) we found hard to justify for a three year trip. So our next option is the Santorin, in which we think we can modify the galley (to include washing machine and extra bench space), modify the portside seating, add air con to the aft cabin, possibly build a solar arch and install lithium batteries, plus standard antifouling paint/servicing/other minor modifications for under $300k AUD(including the purchase of the boat. Any thoughts on this scenario and its feasibility would be most appreciated.

Regarding the Santorin, I have a few burning questions that i haven't been able to source the information for. Does the Santorin have:
- Freezer under salon seating?
- Any aircon? ( and is there space to install aircon units in aft/forward cabins and salon?)
- Is the Santorin 12V or 24V, and what is the advantage of having 24V compared with 12V?
- If I install the lithium batteries in the passageway, is it possible to fit a small generator in the engine room and do I need one? ( If I have lithium batteries and solar arch, I figure I may only have to turn on the main engine once a day to help charge the batteries with the lithium batteries holding enough power to run aircon in aft cabin during the evening).

I understand purchasing a yacht I would most likely not make any money when it came time to sell, though in this case i would hope to break even especially if we went to the trouble of doing these modifications to the Santorin that future buyers would appreciate. The only thing bugging me is whether the total cost involved with such an enterprise would be mostly recovered or I am throwing good money after bad and could perhaps be better off spending more to buy an SM with less headache.

Again thoughts and recommendations greatly appreciated.

Kindest regards 
Orion


Ian Park
 

Fully agree with Mark. 
I have a Santorin. I don’t want air con or freezers etc. It is a great blue water boat as it is. The prop shaft alternator keeps us well charged without running the engine. 
You will only get a Santorin price for your boat after 3 years. 
My advice is look for a well maintained SM that has everything On your wish list and ensure a similar resale price. 
Ian
Ocean Hobo
SN96




On 28 Oct 2019, at 14:15, Mark Erdos <mcerdos@...> wrote:



Orion,

 

I mean the upmost respect as I say this, I do not think the Santorin and adding upgrades is a good plan. You are looking to purchase an Amel and make significant investments and changes. Just the lithium upgrade along is going to cost US$15,000+, Aircon is another US$10,000+ etc (assuming you have an electrical system that can handle the load or you’ll have to make major changes).  Have you considered the cost of ownership while making these upgrades. They will all take considerable time. You will also need an electrician knowledgeable of Amel’s unique floating ground system (a very rare find). Why not buy the SM that already has this stuff. I think you can easily find a well kept Amel in this price range (maybe a tad more). Also keep in mind, in three years when you sell the SM, it will sell for more than the Santorin giving you your extra money back.

 

The best advice I received when purchasing Cream Puff was from Bill Rouse who told me not to change anything for a year. This was very sound advice that prove invaluable. We sailed the eastern USA for the first year of our cruising getting to know our Amel. Only then did we make a couple of changes. We added an arch and solar. We have tried to keep all systems on our vessel as close to the original design as possible. We learned very quickly about the level of detailed thought that went into the vessel design.

 

There is a very good string in this group regarding lithium upgrades. You will find it is not as easy as it sounds. You will also need to change alternators, battery chargers, regulators etc. These are major expensive components for a three year plan. Why not just install good quality batteries. Even if you change them all out midway, this is still 20% of the cost of the upgrade. A good set of Firefly batteries will last more than three years, again 1/3 the cost. I can see adding lithium for a ten year plan, but not a three.

 

I see you make no mention of a washer/dryer. Perhaps the most valuable piece of equipment on our boat is the washer/dryer. We have learned in our travels how doing laundry is a major pain. I can’t imagine cruising full-time without a washer/dryer. This sure has made life on anchor a lot more comfortable.

 

I think your idea of breaking even on upgrades you make to a vessel is a little myopic. All the upgrades will do is sell the vessel faster when it goes to market. You will never recoup monies spent on a boat. If you try, you’ll own the boat longer than planned.

 

My advice, either buy the Santorin and sail it as is. Or, buy the SM and sail it as is. The SM will offer more comforts and in my opinion is easier to sail.

 

This is just my 2¢, I’m sure others will disagree. But, I’d love to see their viewpoints also.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Vista Mar, Panama

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Orion Martin
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2019 8:18 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Amel Santorin Specs and Alterations

 

Good evening everyone,

After many months of struggling between the Super Maramu and the Santorin, we have settled on the Santorin to do a circumnavigation. In the end the main reasons was cost and time. We considered the possibility that a circumnavigation would take three years, in which all likelyhood we would never use the boat again once we had finished. While the SM is the perfect boat for us (if there is such a thing in yachting), the expenses involved to get the boat up to scratch before we even set sail (let alone the cost of the boat) we found hard to justify for a three year trip. So our next option is the Santorin, in which we think we can modify the galley (to include washing machine and extra bench space), modify the portside seating, add air con to the aft cabin, possibly build a solar arch and install lithium batteries, plus standard antifouling paint/servicing/other minor modifications for under $300k AUD(including the purchase of the boat. Any thoughts on this scenario and its feasibility would be most appreciated.

Regarding the Santorin, I have a few burning questions that i haven't been able to source the information for. Does the Santorin have:
- Freezer under salon seating?
- Any aircon? ( and is there space to install aircon units in aft/forward cabins and salon?)
- Is the Santorin 12V or 24V, and what is the advantage of having 24V compared with 12V?
- If I install the lithium batteries in the passageway, is it possible to fit a small generator in the engine room and do I need one? ( If I have lithium batteries and solar arch, I figure I may only have to turn on the main engine once a day to help charge the batteries with the lithium batteries holding enough power to run aircon in aft cabin during the evening).

I understand purchasing a yacht I would most likely not make any money when it came time to sell, though in this case i would hope to break even especially if we went to the trouble of doing these modifications to the Santorin that future buyers would appreciate. The only thing bugging me is whether the total cost involved with such an enterprise would be mostly recovered or I am throwing good money after bad and could perhaps be better off spending more to buy an SM with less headache.

Again thoughts and recommendations greatly appreciated.

Kindest regards 
Orion


Kaplan,Andre
 

As a Mango owner, I would be very interested in the work you have done. Especially the switch to lithium. 

My email: kaplan@...

My address: 6 Hardwood RD
Plainville, CT 06062

Thank you

Andre Kaplan
Mango 71 88



On Oct 28, 2019, at 9:44 AM, Charles Bell <shipbldr2000@...> wrote:

Hello Orion,

I am currently performing a complete refit of an  82 Amel Mango whos scope is similar to what you have described (and is probably wider). (24kwh BattleBorn LiPO4 battery bank, 5x5KW inverters, and all new systems, full paint, new rig, etc...) The interior is ripped out and a Maramu-style interior is being built (tongue-in-cheek are calling it a "MangoMu"). We are even installing *GASP* holding tanks... :)

I have an expensive slide deck on the project and well as hundreds of pictures and videos I can share with you, just send me a PM. If there is wider interest I will figure out a more scalable way to share.

If you (or anyone else) are in the Annapolis area and would like to walk the project and see what is happening, please feel free to let me know.

Charles (& Hae)
SV Saturn
Mango #29


JOHN HAYES
 

Gidday Orion 

I’ve done pretty much what your considering

So I began looking for a cruising ketch with centre cockpit and  confined my choice to a Contest, Harley rassie (sp?) or an Amel and ended up with a Santorin and have been very happy with the choice.  All amounts that follow are in NZ dollars

I came across a 1991 Santorin sailed to NZ from the Med. it has now had 4 owners and its name has been changed by each owner

I sailed it first around our South Island and the next year the north island and have just completed a voyage Wellington Nuku’alofa Vava’u Savusavu Denarau Vanuatu Noumea Wellington without incident except 55 knot head winds at times until a couple of days from Tonga

Living in the roaring 40’s we encounter strong winds at times.....I purposely took the boat out in winds of 50 plus knots to see what might break and those trips were important first to give me confidence in the boat. I had no previous knowledge of Amel and it’s systems

So costs

Boat $155k

Slip and take antifouling back to gel coat $10000. 
An extravagance!!!  Should have set up with cover cost .....,
Installed Zeus 2 chart plotter new wind gear and depth sounder $8000

Added AIS $1250

Replaced anchor chain with 120m  10mm Italian made chain $1500

Re galvanised anchors $200

On the first trip the Bimini blew apart replaced and redesigned in superior cloth $7500

The wind generator lost its feathers and I replaced with a silent wind $5000

We had to cut down the Genoa trying to get into akaroa harbour in 60 knots with the engine overheating and the headsail furling motor dying and I did not understand the need to cross over the sheets on the manual system

New Genoa $5000 rebuild furler motor and the gears in the gear box $4500

The motor was a Perkins 50 hp. It has a spline driven water pump which if not aligned precisely with a special tool chews up the spline in the water pump shaft. Happened twice cost $1250 each time for new spline and pump

Replaced the motor with a Volvo D250 and all skin fittings before heading to the pacific $32000

Brought new tender $3300 (don’t like it too heavy) plan to buy a carbon fibre replacement circa  $8000

Replaced all mattresses and interior upholstery $8000

New main $3800. New mizzen $2000 

New rigging $17000

Rebuilt the 3 furler motors $3000

Replaced stove $1600

New 6 person life raft $3800

Added a portable freezer to the front hanging locker. Been excellent $800. There is no freezer under the seats on my boat

Overhauled bow thruster $500

Overhauled spectra water maker by agent $750

Added second raycor fuel filter $750

Added forward scanner $2600. Might have been smarter to upgrade to a Zeus 3 has cheaper scanner connection.....I found Navico charts excellent  and forward scanner marginal value

Replaced engine room fans $120

Replaced dodger windows $460

Replaced running rigging. $1500

Replaced flares added plbs life jackets. NZ required first aid kit $3500

Put on part b of the New outboard motor for tender $2000

I’ve also thought about adding an inner forestay which the SM has 

My experience is that the prop generator and the wind generator provides all the power we have needed.  We also have a couple of solar panels but don’t really need them

You might want to think about what you add to the stern. The large stern locker means we continually fight to minimise weight in the stern Because it affects bow stern trim. We carry the tender on the roof of the aft cabin which adds to the problem
Have I over capitalised?  To secure insurance for off shore  cost $5200. I had to get the boat valued. The value was $260k 

Hope the foregoing is of use to your consideration 

The Santorin has excellent seakeeping qualities l love it!!

John Hayes 
Nga Waka sn 41

Wellington  


















On 29/10/2019, at 1:18 AM, Orion Martin <poonz1@...> wrote:

Good evening everyone,

After many months of struggling between the Super Maramu and the Santorin, we have settled on the Santorin to do a circumnavigation. In the end the main reasons was cost and time. We considered the possibility that a circumnavigation would take three years, in which all likelyhood we would never use the boat again once we had finished. While the SM is the perfect boat for us (if there is such a thing in yachting), the expenses involved to get the boat up to scratch before we even set sail (let alone the cost of the boat) we found hard to justify for a three year trip. So our next option is the Santorin, in which we think we can modify the galley (to include washing machine and extra bench space), modify the portside seating, add air con to the aft cabin, possibly build a solar arch and install lithium batteries, plus standard antifouling paint/servicing/other minor modifications for under $300k AUD(including the purchase of the boat. Any thoughts on this scenario and its feasibility would be most appreciated.

Regarding the Santorin, I have a few burning questions that i haven't been able to source the information for. Does the Santorin have:
- Freezer under salon seating?
- Any aircon? ( and is there space to install aircon units in aft/forward cabins and salon?)
- Is the Santorin 12V or 24V, and what is the advantage of having 24V compared with 12V?
- If I install the lithium batteries in the passageway, is it possible to fit a small generator in the engine room and do I need one? ( If I have lithium batteries and solar arch, I figure I may only have to turn on the main engine once a day to help charge the batteries with the lithium batteries holding enough power to run aircon in aft cabin during the evening).

I understand purchasing a yacht I would most likely not make any money when it came time to sell, though in this case i would hope to break even especially if we went to the trouble of doing these modifications to the Santorin that future buyers would appreciate. The only thing bugging me is whether the total cost involved with such an enterprise would be mostly recovered or I am throwing good money after bad and could perhaps be better off spending more to buy an SM with less headache.

Again thoughts and recommendations greatly appreciated.

Kindest regards 
Orion


Herbert Lackner
 

Hi Orion,

not starting with pros and cons of SN and SM, just answering your questions:

* freezer: we have a waeco freezer in the cockpit locker, just next to the chair, works fine and is probably the only place in the SN where you can install one without major changes (~0,4k $).
* aircon: we have a portable seawater cooled unit but used it only 4 times in the last 5 years. Italy, Trinidad and Panama in the Marina (and have been very glad we had one...). There would be space to install a small fixed unit on starboard opposite to the front bath-room, -3k $
* 12V
* generator (eg. fischer panda 4000) can be installed in the engine room or (as we have it) in the aft locker.
* water maker: can be installed in the engine room, the tubes below the cockpit locker. enough space for 2 ore more (thanks Ian, that was really a very good hint), control box below the galley, no additional through hulls necessary.  ~4k $

fair winds,

herbert
KALI MERA, SN120, Mazatlan


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Orion, if you want SM specs you are bestvto buy an SM. Theccosts of modifications can be astronomical. Likewise, take care if you consider buying one in poor condition with systems  non functional. The costs of restoration are also astronomical.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 29 October 2019 at 01:17 Orion Martin <poonz1@...> wrote:

Good evening everyone,

After many months of struggling between the Super Maramu and the Santorin, we have settled on the Santorin to do a circumnavigation. In the end the main reasons was cost and time. We considered the possibility that a circumnavigation would take three years, in which all likelyhood we would never use the boat again once we had finished. While the SM is the perfect boat for us (if there is such a thing in yachting), the expenses involved to get the boat up to scratch before we even set sail (let alone the cost of the boat) we found hard to justify for a three year trip. So our next option is the Santorin, in which we think we can modify the galley (to include washing machine and extra bench space), modify the portside seating, add air con to the aft cabin, possibly build a solar arch and install lithium batteries, plus standard antifouling paint/servicing/other minor modifications for under $300k AUD(including the purchase of the boat. Any thoughts on this scenario and its feasibility would be most appreciated.

Regarding the Santorin, I have a few burning questions that i haven't been able to source the information for. Does the Santorin have:
- Freezer under salon seating?
- Any aircon? ( and is there space to install aircon units in aft/forward cabins and salon?)
- Is the Santorin 12V or 24V, and what is the advantage of having 24V compared with 12V?
- If I install the lithium batteries in the passageway, is it possible to fit a small generator in the engine room and do I need one? ( If I have lithium batteries and solar arch, I figure I may only have to turn on the main engine once a day to help charge the batteries with the lithium batteries holding enough power to run aircon in aft cabin during the evening).

I understand purchasing a yacht I would most likely not make any money when it came time to sell, though in this case i would hope to break even especially if we went to the trouble of doing these modifications to the Santorin that future buyers would appreciate. The only thing bugging me is whether the total cost involved with such an enterprise would be mostly recovered or I am throwing good money after bad and could perhaps be better off spending more to buy an SM with less headache.

Again thoughts and recommendations greatly appreciated.

Kindest regards 
Orion


Orion Martin
 

G'day John,

Thank you for your reply. Wow, the amount of work you have had done to your boat is incredible (and slightly eyewatering:) but we expect to pay $100k for upgrades so its close to where we would end up. Pleasing to note insurance was able to value your boat at what you have spent on it. Your add ons and modifications are what we would like to do, though the change of engine seems daunting. I will keep in mind about the spline problem with the Perkins engine when looking for a suitable Santorin. 

I'm originally from Christchurch and know about the windy conditions at times around Banks Peninsula, we anticipate sailing to Lyttleton in the future to catch up with family and hopefully do a tour around the islands. Fair winds to you and may Nga Waka keep you safe.


Orion Martin
 

Hi Mark,

Thank you for your reply. Thats interesting about the lithium batteries, and you may be right that it is perhaps not the best investment for a three year plan considering the amount of work and cost involved to install lithium. Fundamentally, we would not look to change most of the systems, and I agree that Amel has everything well thought out in terms of their designs evolving through experience. We do want an extra level of comfort though, and are ready to make changes straight away to ensure a minimum level of comfort we would be happy travelling with.

Yes I absolutely agree, a washing machine is a must, hence the idea about modifying the galley with extra bench top in which we store the washing machine below. This idea was inspired by a Maramu owner who had installed an extra bench top and modified seating around the table. The bench top has a washing machine below which I think is great.

It should be noted that I have seriously considered the Mango because of its U- shaped seating around the table. However, the Santorin is more suitable for our needs with the large aft locker, position of the prop, and sugar scoop transom. 

There have been some great ideas mentioned in this thread, with the Fischer Panda generator, and freezer in the cockpit locker which we would incorporate in our planning. Admittedly, our plans are at a very nascent stage and will no doubt change and reevaluate over time. the advice and ideas given in this group are invaluable and most appreciated:)

Kindest regards
Orion


Orion Martin
 

Hi Herbert,

Thank you for your reply. Perfect, your reply sums up concisely the items we deem essential to comfortable living and related costs. We shall incorporate your response into out planning

Fair winds and kindest regards
Orion


hanspeter baettig
 


Hi John
Two questions only.
You sailed headwinds in 55 kn , means 12 Btf. or you where at ancer in a shelterd bay
2.You tryed your Santorin by purpose in 50 kn of wind?
fair winds Hanspeter
waiting for a genious reply!
Hanspeter
Tamango 2
SM16
Martinique
------ Original Nachricht ------
Am Montag, 28. Okt, 2019 um 18:06, JOHN HAYES schrieb:

Gidday Orion 

I’ve done pretty much what your considering

So I began looking for a cruising ketch with centre cockpit and  confined my choice to a Contest, Harley rassie (sp?) or an Amel and ended up with a Santorin and have been very happy with the choice.  All amounts that follow are in NZ dollars

I came across a 1991 Santorin sailed to NZ from the Med. it has now had 4 owners and its name has been changed by each owner

I sailed it first around our South Island and the next year the north island and have just completed a voyage Wellington Nuku’alofa Vava’u Savusavu Denarau Vanuatu Noumea Wellington without incident except 55 knot head winds at times until a couple of days from Tonga

Living in the roaring 40’s we encounter strong winds at times.....I purposely took the boat out in winds of 50 plus knots to see what might break and those trips were important first to give me confidence in the boat. I had no previous knowledge of Amel and it’s systems

So costs

Boat $155k

Slip and take antifouling back to gel coat $10000. 
An extravagance!!!  Should have set up with cover cost .....,
Installed Zeus 2 chart plotter new wind gear and depth sounder $8000

Added AIS $1250

Replaced anchor chain with 120m  10mm Italian made chain $1500

Re galvanised anchors $200

On the first trip the Bimini blew apart replaced and redesigned in superior cloth $7500

The wind generator lost its feathers and I replaced with a silent wind $5000

We had to cut down the Genoa trying to get into akaroa harbour in 60 knots with the engine overheating and the headsail furling motor dying and I did not understand the need to cross over the sheets on the manual system

New Genoa $5000 rebuild furler motor and the gears in the gear box $4500

The motor was a Perkins 50 hp. It has a spline driven water pump which if not aligned precisely with a special tool chews up the spline in the water pump shaft. Happened twice cost $1250 each time for new spline and pump

Replaced the motor with a Volvo D250 and all skin fittings before heading to the pacific $32000

Brought new tender $3300 (don’t like it too heavy) plan to buy a carbon fibre replacement circa  $8000

Replaced all mattresses and interior upholstery $8000

New main $3800. New mizzen $2000 

New rigging $17000

Rebuilt the 3 furler motors $3000

Replaced stove $1600

New 6 person life raft $3800

Added a portable freezer to the front hanging locker. Been excellent $800. There is no freezer under the seats on my boat

Overhauled bow thruster $500

Overhauled spectra water maker by agent $750

Added second raycor fuel filter $750

Added forward scanner $2600. Might have been smarter to upgrade to a Zeus 3 has cheaper scanner connection.....I found Navico charts excellent  and forward scanner marginal value

Replaced engine room fans $120

Replaced dodger windows $460

Replaced running rigging. $1500

Replaced flares added plbs life jackets. NZ required first aid kit $3500

Put on part b of the New outboard motor for tender $2000

I’ve also thought about adding an inner forestay which the SM has 

My experience is that the prop generator and the wind generator provides all the power we have needed.  We also have a couple of solar panels but don’t really need them

You might want to think about what you add to the stern. The large stern locker means we continually fight to minimise weight in the stern Because it affects bow stern trim. We carry the tender on the roof of the aft cabin which adds to the problem
Have I over capitalised?  To secure insurance for off shore  cost $5200. I had to get the boat valued. The value was $260k 

Hope the foregoing is of use to your consideration 

The Santorin has excellent seakeeping qualities l love it!!

John Hayes 
Nga Waka sn 41

Wellington  


















On 29/10/2019, at 1:18 AM, Orion Martin <poonz1@...> wrote:

Good evening everyone,

After many months of struggling between the Super Maramu and the Santorin, we have settled on the Santorin to do a circumnavigation. In the end the main reasons was cost and time. We considered the possibility that a circumnavigation would take three years, in which all likelyhood we would never use the boat again once we had finished. While the SM is the perfect boat for us (if there is such a thing in yachting), the expenses involved to get the boat up to scratch before we even set sail (let alone the cost of the boat) we found hard to justify for a three year trip. So our next option is the Santorin, in which we think we can modify the galley (to include washing machine and extra bench space), modify the portside seating, add air con to the aft cabin, possibly build a solar arch and install lithium batteries, plus standard antifouling paint/servicing/other minor modifications for under $300k AUD(including the purchase of the boat. Any thoughts on this scenario and its feasibility would be most appreciated.

Regarding the Santorin, I have a few burning questions that i haven't been able to source the information for. Does the Santorin have:
- Freezer under salon seating?
- Any aircon? ( and is there space to install aircon units in aft/forward cabins and salon?)
- Is the Santorin 12V or 24V, and what is the advantage of having 24V compared with 12V?
- If I install the lithium batteries in the passageway, is it possible to fit a small generator in the engine room and do I need one? ( If I have lithium batteries and solar arch, I figure I may only have to turn on the main engine once a day to help charge the batteries with the lithium batteries holding enough power to run aircon in aft cabin during the evening).

I understand purchasing a yacht I would most likely not make any money when it came time to sell, though in this case i would hope to break even especially if we went to the trouble of doing these modifications to the Santorin that future buyers would appreciate. The only thing bugging me is whether the total cost involved with such an enterprise would be mostly recovered or I am throwing good money after bad and could perhaps be better off spending more to buy an SM with less headache.

Again thoughts and recommendations greatly appreciated.

Kindest regards 
Orion


hanspeter baettig
 

Sorry John 55 Kn = 10 Bft

------ Original Nachricht ------
Am Montag, 28. Okt, 2019 um 22:27, hanspeter baettig schrieb:


Hi John
Two questions only.
You sailed headwinds in 55 kn , means 12 Btf. or you where at ancer in a shelterd bay
2.You tryed your Santorin by purpose in 50 kn of wind?
fair winds Hanspeter
waiting for a genious reply!
Hanspeter
Tamango 2
SM16
Martinique
------ Original Nachricht ------
Am Montag, 28. Okt, 2019 um 18:06, JOHN HAYES schrieb:

Gidday Orion 

I’ve done pretty much what your considering

So I began looking for a cruising ketch with centre cockpit and  confined my choice to a Contest, Harley rassie (sp?) or an Amel and ended up with a Santorin and have been very happy with the choice.  All amounts that follow are in NZ dollars

I came across a 1991 Santorin sailed to NZ from the Med. it has now had 4 owners and its name has been changed by each owner

I sailed it first around our South Island and the next year the north island and have just completed a voyage Wellington Nuku’alofa Vava’u Savusavu Denarau Vanuatu Noumea Wellington without incident except 55 knot head winds at times until a couple of days from Tonga

Living in the roaring 40’s we encounter strong winds at times.....I purposely took the boat out in winds of 50 plus knots to see what might break and those trips were important first to give me confidence in the boat. I had no previous knowledge of Amel and it’s systems

So costs

Boat $155k

Slip and take antifouling back to gel coat $10000. 
An extravagance!!!  Should have set up with cover cost .....,
Installed Zeus 2 chart plotter new wind gear and depth sounder $8000

Added AIS $1250

Replaced anchor chain with 120m  10mm Italian made chain $1500

Re galvanised anchors $200

On the first trip the Bimini blew apart replaced and redesigned in superior cloth $7500

The wind generator lost its feathers and I replaced with a silent wind $5000

We had to cut down the Genoa trying to get into akaroa harbour in 60 knots with the engine overheating and the headsail furling motor dying and I did not understand the need to cross over the sheets on the manual system

New Genoa $5000 rebuild furler motor and the gears in the gear box $4500

The motor was a Perkins 50 hp. It has a spline driven water pump which if not aligned precisely with a special tool chews up the spline in the water pump shaft. Happened twice cost $1250 each time for new spline and pump

Replaced the motor with a Volvo D250 and all skin fittings before heading to the pacific $32000

Brought new tender $3300 (don’t like it too heavy) plan to buy a carbon fibre replacement circa  $8000

Replaced all mattresses and interior upholstery $8000

New main $3800. New mizzen $2000 

New rigging $17000

Rebuilt the 3 furler motors $3000

Replaced stove $1600

New 6 person life raft $3800

Added a portable freezer to the front hanging locker. Been excellent $800. There is no freezer under the seats on my boat

Overhauled bow thruster $500

Overhauled spectra water maker by agent $750

Added second raycor fuel filter $750

Added forward scanner $2600. Might have been smarter to upgrade to a Zeus 3 has cheaper scanner connection.....I found Navico charts excellent  and forward scanner marginal value

Replaced engine room fans $120

Replaced dodger windows $460

Replaced running rigging. $1500

Replaced flares added plbs life jackets. NZ required first aid kit $3500

Put on part b of the New outboard motor for tender $2000

I’ve also thought about adding an inner forestay which the SM has 

My experience is that the prop generator and the wind generator provides all the power we have needed.  We also have a couple of solar panels but don’t really need them

You might want to think about what you add to the stern. The large stern locker means we continually fight to minimise weight in the stern Because it affects bow stern trim. We carry the tender on the roof of the aft cabin which adds to the problem
Have I over capitalised?  To secure insurance for off shore  cost $5200. I had to get the boat valued. The value was $260k 

Hope the foregoing is of use to your consideration 

The Santorin has excellent seakeeping qualities l love it!!

John Hayes 
Nga Waka sn 41

Wellington  


















On 29/10/2019, at 1:18 AM, Orion Martin <poonz1@...> wrote:

Good evening everyone,

After many months of struggling between the Super Maramu and the Santorin, we have settled on the Santorin to do a circumnavigation. In the end the main reasons was cost and time. We considered the possibility that a circumnavigation would take three years, in which all likelyhood we would never use the boat again once we had finished. While the SM is the perfect boat for us (if there is such a thing in yachting), the expenses involved to get the boat up to scratch before we even set sail (let alone the cost of the boat) we found hard to justify for a three year trip. So our next option is the Santorin, in which we think we can modify the galley (to include washing machine and extra bench space), modify the portside seating, add air con to the aft cabin, possibly build a solar arch and install lithium batteries, plus standard antifouling paint/servicing/other minor modifications for under $300k AUD(including the purchase of the boat. Any thoughts on this scenario and its feasibility would be most appreciated.

Regarding the Santorin, I have a few burning questions that i haven't been able to source the information for. Does the Santorin have:
- Freezer under salon seating?
- Any aircon? ( and is there space to install aircon units in aft/forward cabins and salon?)
- Is the Santorin 12V or 24V, and what is the advantage of having 24V compared with 12V?
- If I install the lithium batteries in the passageway, is it possible to fit a small generator in the engine room and do I need one? ( If I have lithium batteries and solar arch, I figure I may only have to turn on the main engine once a day to help charge the batteries with the lithium batteries holding enough power to run aircon in aft cabin during the evening).

I understand purchasing a yacht I would most likely not make any money when it came time to sell, though in this case i would hope to break even especially if we went to the trouble of doing these modifications to the Santorin that future buyers would appreciate. The only thing bugging me is whether the total cost involved with such an enterprise would be mostly recovered or I am throwing good money after bad and could perhaps be better off spending more to buy an SM with less headache.

Again thoughts and recommendations greatly appreciated.

Kindest regards 
Orion


Germain Jean-Pierre
 

HI Hanspeter,  

John Hayes is a very competent sailor.  Tasman sea area… there are freak winds there

Cheers



Jean-Pierre Germain, SY Eleuthera, SM 007 FIJI going to NZ later today.





On 29 Oct 2019, at 09:27, hanspeter baettig <hanspeter.baettig@...> wrote:


Hi John
Two questions only.
You sailed headwinds in 55 kn , means 12 Btf. or you where at ancer in a shelterd bay
2.You tryed your Santorin by purpose in 50 kn of wind?
fair winds Hanspeter
waiting for a genious reply!
Hanspeter
Tamango 2
SM16
Martinique
------ Original Nachricht ------
Am Montag, 28. Okt, 2019 um 18:06, JOHN HAYES schrieb:

Gidday Orion 

I’ve done pretty much what your considering

So I began looking for a cruising ketch with centre cockpit and  confined my choice to a Contest, Harley rassie (sp?) or an Amel and ended up with a Santorin and have been very happy with the choice.  All amounts that follow are in NZ dollars

I came across a 1991 Santorin sailed to NZ from the Med. it has now had 4 owners and its name has been changed by each owner

I sailed it first around our South Island and the next year the north island and have just completed a voyage Wellington Nuku’alofa Vava’u Savusavu Denarau Vanuatu Noumea Wellington without incident except 55 knot head winds at times until a couple of days from Tonga

Living in the roaring 40’s we encounter strong winds at times.....I purposely took the boat out in winds of 50 plus knots to see what might break and those trips were important first to give me confidence in the boat. I had no previous knowledge of Amel and it’s systems

So costs

Boat $155k

Slip and take antifouling back to gel coat $10000. 
An extravagance!!!  Should have set up with cover cost .....,
Installed Zeus 2 chart plotter new wind gear and depth sounder $8000

Added AIS $1250

Replaced anchor chain with 120m  10mm Italian made chain $1500

Re galvanised anchors $200

On the first trip the Bimini blew apart replaced and redesigned in superior cloth $7500

The wind generator lost its feathers and I replaced with a silent wind $5000

We had to cut down the Genoa trying to get into akaroa harbour in 60 knots with the engine overheating and the headsail furling motor dying and I did not understand the need to cross over the sheets on the manual system

New Genoa $5000 rebuild furler motor and the gears in the gear box $4500

The motor was a Perkins 50 hp. It has a spline driven water pump which if not aligned precisely with a special tool chews up the spline in the water pump shaft. Happened twice cost $1250 each time for new spline and pump

Replaced the motor with a Volvo D250 and all skin fittings before heading to the pacific $32000

Brought new tender $3300 (don’t like it too heavy) plan to buy a carbon fibre replacement circa  $8000

Replaced all mattresses and interior upholstery $8000

New main $3800. New mizzen $2000 

New rigging $17000

Rebuilt the 3 furler motors $3000

Replaced stove $1600

New 6 person life raft $3800

Added a portable freezer to the front hanging locker. Been excellent $800. There is no freezer under the seats on my boat

Overhauled bow thruster $500

Overhauled spectra water maker by agent $750

Added second raycor fuel filter $750

Added forward scanner $2600. Might have been smarter to upgrade to a Zeus 3 has cheaper scanner connection.....I found Navico charts excellent  and forward scanner marginal value

Replaced engine room fans $120

Replaced dodger windows $460

Replaced running rigging. $1500

Replaced flares added plbs life jackets. NZ required first aid kit $3500

Put on part b of the New outboard motor for tender $2000

I’ve also thought about adding an inner forestay which the SM has 

My experience is that the prop generator and the wind generator provides all the power we have needed.  We also have a couple of solar panels but don’t really need them

You might want to think about what you add to the stern. The large stern locker means we continually fight to minimise weight in the stern Because it affects bow stern trim. We carry the tender on the roof of the aft cabin which adds to the problem
Have I over capitalised?  To secure insurance for off shore  cost $5200. I had to get the boat valued. The value was $260k 

Hope the foregoing is of use to your consideration 

The Santorin has excellent seakeeping qualities l love it!!

John Hayes 
Nga Waka sn 41

Wellington  


















On 29/10/2019, at 1:18 AM, Orion Martin <poonz1@...> wrote:

Good evening everyone,

After many months of struggling between the Super Maramu and the Santorin, we have settled on the Santorin to do a circumnavigation. In the end the main reasons was cost and time. We considered the possibility that a circumnavigation would take three years, in which all likelyhood we would never use the boat again once we had finished. While the SM is the perfect boat for us (if there is such a thing in yachting), the expenses involved to get the boat up to scratch before we even set sail (let alone the cost of the boat) we found hard to justify for a three year trip. So our next option is the Santorin, in which we think we can modify the galley (to include washing machine and extra bench space), modify the portside seating, add air con to the aft cabin, possibly build a solar arch and install lithium batteries, plus standard antifouling paint/servicing/other minor modifications for under $300k AUD(including the purchase of the boat. Any thoughts on this scenario and its feasibility would be most appreciated.

Regarding the Santorin, I have a few burning questions that i haven't been able to source the information for. Does the Santorin have:
- Freezer under salon seating?
- Any aircon? ( and is there space to install aircon units in aft/forward cabins and salon?)
- Is the Santorin 12V or 24V, and what is the advantage of having 24V compared with 12V?
- If I install the lithium batteries in the passageway, is it possible to fit a small generator in the engine room and do I need one? ( If I have lithium batteries and solar arch, I figure I may only have to turn on the main engine once a day to help charge the batteries with the lithium batteries holding enough power to run aircon in aft cabin during the evening).

I understand purchasing a yacht I would most likely not make any money when it came time to sell, though in this case i would hope to break even especially if we went to the trouble of doing these modifications to the Santorin that future buyers would appreciate. The only thing bugging me is whether the total cost involved with such an enterprise would be mostly recovered or I am throwing good money after bad and could perhaps be better off spending more to buy an SM with less headache.

Again thoughts and recommendations greatly appreciated.

Kindest regards 
Orion


Teun BAAS
 

Hi John,

 

Reading your Email makes me feel a little bit better about myself; I am not the only one spending sizeable amounts of money in addition to the purchase price getting our AMEL in the shape we prefer 😊

 

Over what time period did you do below detailed changes?

 

Best Regards Teun

SV AMELIT  A54  #128

 

NOUMEA  NEW CALEDONIA

October 29, 2019 10:23:45

 

https://forecast.predictwind.com/tracking/display/AMELIT

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of JOHN HAYES via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2019 04:07
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Amel Santorin Specs and Alterations

 

Gidday Orion 

 

I’ve done pretty much what your considering

 

So I began looking for a cruising ketch with centre cockpit and  confined my choice to a Contest, Harley rassie (sp?) or an Amel and ended up with a Santorin and have been very happy with the choice.  All amounts that follow are in NZ dollars

 

I came across a 1991 Santorin sailed to NZ from the Med. it has now had 4 owners and its name has been changed by each owner

 

I sailed it first around our South Island and the next year the north island and have just completed a voyage Wellington Nuku’alofa Vava’u Savusavu Denarau Vanuatu Noumea Wellington without incident except 55 knot head winds at times until a couple of days from Tonga

 

Living in the roaring 40’s we encounter strong winds at times.....I purposely took the boat out in winds of 50 plus knots to see what might break and those trips were important first to give me confidence in the boat. I had no previous knowledge of Amel and it’s systems

 

So costs

 

Boat $155k

 

Slip and take antifouling back to gel coat $10000. 

An extravagance!!!  Should have set up with cover cost .....,

Installed Zeus 2 chart plotter new wind gear and depth sounder $8000

 

Added AIS $1250

 

Replaced anchor chain with 120m  10mm Italian made chain $1500

 

Re galvanised anchors $200

 

On the first trip the Bimini blew apart replaced and redesigned in superior cloth $7500

 

The wind generator lost its feathers and I replaced with a silent wind $5000

 

We had to cut down the Genoa trying to get into akaroa harbour in 60 knots with the engine overheating and the headsail furling motor dying and I did not understand the need to cross over the sheets on the manual system

 

New Genoa $5000 rebuild furler motor and the gears in the gear box $4500

 

The motor was a Perkins 50 hp. It has a spline driven water pump which if not aligned precisely with a special tool chews up the spline in the water pump shaft. Happened twice cost $1250 each time for new spline and pump

 

Replaced the motor with a Volvo D250 and all skin fittings before heading to the pacific $32000

 

Brought new tender $3300 (don’t like it too heavy) plan to buy a carbon fibre replacement circa  $8000

 

Replaced all mattresses and interior upholstery $8000

 

New main $3800. New mizzen $2000 

 

New rigging $17000

 

Rebuilt the 3 furler motors $3000

 

Replaced stove $1600

 

New 6 person life raft $3800

 

Added a portable freezer to the front hanging locker. Been excellent $800. There is no freezer under the seats on my boat

 

Overhauled bow thruster $500

 

Overhauled spectra water maker by agent $750

 

Added second raycor fuel filter $750

 

Added forward scanner $2600. Might have been smarter to upgrade to a Zeus 3 has cheaper scanner connection.....I found Navico charts excellent  and forward scanner marginal value

 

Replaced engine room fans $120

 

Replaced dodger windows $460

 

Replaced running rigging. $1500

 

Replaced flares added plbs life jackets. NZ required first aid kit $3500

 

Put on part b of the New outboard motor for tender $2000

 

I’ve also thought about adding an inner forestay which the SM has 

 

My experience is that the prop generator and the wind generator provides all the power we have needed.  We also have a couple of solar panels but don’t really need them

 

You might want to think about what you add to the stern. The large stern locker means we continually fight to minimise weight in the stern Because it affects bow stern trim. We carry the tender on the roof of the aft cabin which adds to the problem

Have I over capitalised?  To secure insurance for off shore  cost $5200. I had to get the boat valued. The value was $260k 

 

Hope the foregoing is of use to your consideration 

 

The Santorin has excellent seakeeping qualities l love it!!

 

John Hayes 

Nga Waka sn 41

 

Wellington  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



On 29/10/2019, at 1:18 AM, Orion Martin <poonz1@...> wrote:

Good evening everyone,

After many months of struggling between the Super Maramu and the Santorin, we have settled on the Santorin to do a circumnavigation. In the end the main reasons was cost and time. We considered the possibility that a circumnavigation would take three years, in which all likelyhood we would never use the boat again once we had finished. While the SM is the perfect boat for us (if there is such a thing in yachting), the expenses involved to get the boat up to scratch before we even set sail (let alone the cost of the boat) we found hard to justify for a three year trip. So our next option is the Santorin, in which we think we can modify the galley (to include washing machine and extra bench space), modify the portside seating, add air con to the aft cabin, possibly build a solar arch and install lithium batteries, plus standard antifouling paint/servicing/other minor modifications for under $300k AUD(including the purchase of the boat. Any thoughts on this scenario and its feasibility would be most appreciated.

Regarding the Santorin, I have a few burning questions that i haven't been able to source the information for. Does the Santorin have:
- Freezer under salon seating?
- Any aircon? ( and is there space to install aircon units in aft/forward cabins and salon?)
- Is the Santorin 12V or 24V, and what is the advantage of having 24V compared with 12V?
- If I install the lithium batteries in the passageway, is it possible to fit a small generator in the engine room and do I need one? ( If I have lithium batteries and solar arch, I figure I may only have to turn on the main engine once a day to help charge the batteries with the lithium batteries holding enough power to run aircon in aft cabin during the evening).

I understand purchasing a yacht I would most likely not make any money when it came time to sell, though in this case i would hope to break even especially if we went to the trouble of doing these modifications to the Santorin that future buyers would appreciate. The only thing bugging me is whether the total cost involved with such an enterprise would be mostly recovered or I am throwing good money after bad and could perhaps be better off spending more to buy an SM with less headache.

Again thoughts and recommendations greatly appreciated.

Kindest regards 
Orion


david bruce
 

Hi Orion,

We have a beautiful Santorin sloop well equipped for Med cruising (which coincidently we purchased after also seriously considering both a Contest or Hallberg Rassy).  For instance she has an Opacmare hydraulic passarelle, genset , AC, and stern thruster.  However despite our fondness for the boat we are also deliberating on whether or not to put money into equipping her for longer distance cruising or seek a well loved SM that would largely have these items, i.e. solar, arch, 2nd autopilot. 

It’s a tough decision, we really like our Santorin, which in response to your follow up questions does not have a second icebox or freezer under the forward settee seat, but which would easily accommodate one.  The AC fits well on the outboard side of the passageway just aft of the nav desk.   The 5kw genset fits well on the port side of the engine room, however in our installation anyway the batteries were moved under the salon seaberth on the stb side.  They do not come with water makers.  

There are two factors favoring an SM for us, one is based on geography and one is based on our sloop rig, so neither might apply to you.  The Med is a challenging and expensive place to have work done I have found.  Costs aside, logistics can be a challenge and tradespeople familiar with Amels are rare, making larger more complex projects such as equipping a boat for transoceanic passages (particularly as a part time cruiser) a somewhat daunting prospect. 

The second issue relates to the sloop rig which has the traveler along the aft end of the cockpit serving to make a full cockpit enclosure ( a must for me ) impossible due the angle of the mainsheet.  

At any rate, were I to do it again, my ideal scenario might be a well loved and fully equipped Santorin ketch, but they are pretty rare I think, so I have to agree with Ian and Mark that if the budget allows for the purchase and ongoing maintenance of a larger and more complex boat, the SM seems like the way to go, BUT, having purchased a Santorin and having recently kept an eye on the SM market,that difference with all respect to Mark, will be more than a ‘tad’ at least for me, I’d be thinking 75-100k. 

As an aside, an interesting phenomenon I am finding is how much less enthused I seem to be for most other boats I look at after having an Amel.  There just seem to be so many features I would not want to give up, I don’t think you can go too far wrong whatever you decide.  

Good luck, 

Dave 
Liesse
SN006 








On Oct 28, 2019, at 7:46 AM, Ian <parkianj@...> wrote:

Fully agree with Mark. 
I have a Santorin. I don’t want air con or freezers etc. It is a great blue water boat as it is. The prop shaft alternator keeps us well charged without running the engine. 
You will only get a Santorin price for your boat after 3 years. 
My advice is look for a well maintained SM that has everything On your wish list and ensure a similar resale price. S
Ian
Ocean Hobo
SN96




On 28 Oct 2019, at 14:15, Mark Erdos <mcerdos@...> wrote:


Orion,
 
I mean the upmost respect as I say this, I do not think the Santorin and adding upgrades is a good plan. You are looking to purchase an Amel and make significant investments and changes. Just the lithium upgrade along is going to cost US$15,000+, Aircon is another US$10,000+ etc (assuming you have an electrical system that can handle the load or you’ll have to make major changes).  Have you considered the cost of ownership while making these upgrades. They will all take considerable time. You will also need an electrician knowledgeable of Amel’s unique floating ground system (a very rare find). Why not buy the SM that already has this stuff. I think you can easily find a well kept Amel in this price range (maybe a tad more). Also keep in mind, in three years when you sell the SM, it will sell for more than the Santorin giving you your extra money back. 
 
The best advice I received when purchasing Cream Puff was from Bill Rouse who told me not to change anything for a year. This was very sound advice that prove invaluable. We sailed the eastern USA for the first year of our cruising getting to know our Amel. Only then did we make a couple of changes. We added an arch and solar. We have tried to keep all systems on our vessel as close to the original design as possible. We learned very quickly about the level of detailed thought that went into the vessel design. 
 
There is a very good string in this group regarding lithium upgrades. You will find it is not as easy as it sounds. You will also need to change alternators, battery chargers, regulators etc. These are major expensive components for a three year plan. Why not just install good quality batteries. Even if you change them all out midway, this is still 20% of the cost of the upgrade. A good set of Firefly batteries will last more than three years, again 1/3 the cost. I can see adding lithium for a ten year plan, but not a three.
 
I see you make no mention of a washer/dryer. Perhaps the most valuable piece of equipment on our boat is the washer/dryer. We have learned in our travels how doing laundry is a major pain. I can’t imagine cruising full-time without a washer/dryer. This sure has made life on anchor a lot more comfortable. 
 
I think your idea of breaking even on upgrades you make to a vessel is a little myopic. All the upgrades will do is sell the vessel faster when it goes to market. You will never recoup monies spent on a boat. If you try, you’ll own the boat longer than planned.
 
My advice, either buy the Santorin and sail it as is. Or, buy the SM and sail it as is. The SM will offer more comforts and in my opinion is easier to sail.
 
This is just my 2¢, I’m sure others will disagree. But, I’d love to see their viewpoints also.
 
 
With best regards,
 
Mark
 
Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently cruising - Vista Mar, Panama
 
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Orion Martin
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2019 8:18 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Amel Santorin Specs and Alterations
 
Good evening everyone,

After many months of struggling between the Super Maramu and the Santorin, we have settled on the Santorin to do a circumnavigation. In the end the main reasons was cost and time. We considered the possibility that a circumnavigation would take three years, in which all likelyhood we would never use the boat again once we had finished. While the SM is the perfect boat for us (if there is such a thing in yachting), the expenses involved to get the boat up to scratch before we even set sail (let alone the cost of the boat) we found hard to justify for a three year trip. So our next option is the Santorin, in which we think we can modify the galley (to include washing machine and extra bench space), modify the portside seating, add air con to the aft cabin, possibly build a solar arch and install lithium batteries, plus standard antifouling paint/servicing/other minor modifications for under $300k AUD(including the purchase of the boat. Any thoughts on this scenario and its feasibility would be most appreciated.

Regarding the Santorin, I have a few burning questions that i haven't been able to source the information for. Does the Santorin have:
- Freezer under salon seating? 
- Any aircon? ( and is there space to install aircon units in aft/forward cabins and salon?) 
- Is the Santorin 12V or 24V, and what is the advantage of having 24V compared with 12V?
- If I install the lithium batteries in the passageway, is it possible to fit a small generator in the engine room and do I need one? ( If I have lithium batteries and solar arch, I figure I may only have to turn on the main engine once a day to help charge the batteries with the lithium batteries holding enough power to run aircon in aft cabin during the evening).

I understand purchasing a yacht I would most likely not make any money when it came time to sell, though in this case i would hope to break even especially if we went to the trouble of doing these modifications to the Santorin that future buyers would appreciate. The only thing bugging me is whether the total cost involved with such an enterprise would be mostly recovered or I am throwing good money after bad and could perhaps be better off spending more to buy an SM with less headache.

Again thoughts and recommendations greatly appreciated.

Kindest regards 
Orion 



Orion Martin
 

Hi Dave,

Thank you for your reply. Yes the difference in price between a suitable Santorin and an SM is significant. Having looked at all the major yacht websites frequently for comparison and gauging condition of yachts relative to asking price, there is on average a significant price difference of $75-100k. Understandable given the specs that the SM has. The variables that were mentioned, such as cost of ownership and challenging logistics and tradework based on geography do give rise to reservations about doing a full fit out for a Santorin. It’s not an easy decision, and if I’m honest the replies have made me think twice. A lot to think about...

Fair winds to you and kindest regards
Orion


Germain Jean-Pierre
 

Hi Dave,

We faced the same dilemma when we were looking; you are not alone.

But given your list of “must have” the SM will get them all at one price.  With a Santorin, you will spend the entire cost difference getting to your sweet spot perhaps more.  A well kept SM should have most of your list already aboard.

Welcome aboard!!!

Jean-Pierre Germain, Eleuthera SM 007 enroute Fiji to NZ

On 29 Oct 2019, at 22:25, Orion Martin <poonz1@...> wrote:

Hi Dave,

Thank you for your reply. Yes the difference in price between a suitable Santorin and an SM is significant. Having looked at all the major yacht websites frequently for comparison and gauging condition of yachts relative to asking price, there is on average a significant price difference of $75-100k. Understandable given the specs that the SM has. The variables that were mentioned, such as cost of ownership and challenging logistics and tradework based on geography do give rise to reservations about doing a full fit out for a Santorin. It’s not an easy decision, and if I’m honest the replies have made me think twice. A lot to think about...

Fair winds to you and kindest regards
Orion



Jean-Pierre Germain