Topics

Heaving-to experiences/advice, and Jordan series drogue use


Aldo Roldan
 

Hi Amelians

I ignore if the subject matter has been discussed before, but I would love to hear from the many of you that have heaved to your Amels.  Some of the questions that come to mind ( am sure there is many more I have not thought of) are when do you do it, in what kind of sea state? what wind ranges?  What sales do you deploy, how much sail out. Do the mizzen play any role ?  At what point it becomes ineffective and you need to run with the storm?  When heaving to, do you still get some waves rolling into the cockpit?  Also I would really appreciate to hear from some of the Amel 55s our there that have experience on the subject. 

On the Jordan series drogue use, I have some of Eric’s discussion on his epic experience, but I wonder whether  anybody else has use them.  I would appreciate hearing from those boats as well.

Many thanks, you all

Aldo
Araucaria
Amel 55



On Thu,
--
CW Bill Rouse Amel Yacht Owners School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...


karkauai
 

Hi Aldo,
I have hove-to several times, usually waiting for light to sail into an unfamiliar port.  Typically, I use whatever sails I have up for the current conditions.  The worst conditions were hove -to for 48 hours waiting for a storm to pass in 35-40 kt winds with gusts to 50, and 8-12 ft seas.  I had a handkerchief of jib and 1/3 of the mizzen out.  With the mizzen traveler amidships, we sailed slowly forward and out of the windward “slick”.  I brought the traveler upwind and we drifted slowly directly downwind, staying in the upwind “slick” which kept all but one small wave from breaking on the side of the boat in 48 hours.  The motion was comfortable and we were able to cook a hot meal.

I also own a drogue, but haven’t had need to deploy it.  We are still working on getting the bridle and other issues worked out that we’re brought up by Eric.

Kent & Iris
Kristy
SM 243

On Nov 15, 2019, at 9:15 AM, Aldo Roldan via Groups.Io <aroldan1796@...> wrote:


Hi Amelians

I ignore if the subject matter has been discussed before, but I would love to hear from the many of you that have heaved to your Amels.  Some of the questions that come to mind ( am sure there is many more I have not thought of) are when do you do it, in what kind of sea state? what wind ranges?  What sales do you deploy, how much sail out. Do the mizzen play any role ?  At what point it becomes ineffective and you need to run with the storm?  When heaving to, do you still get some waves rolling into the cockpit?  Also I would really appreciate to hear from some of the Amel 55s our there that have experience on the subject. 

On the Jordan series drogue use, I have some of Eric’s discussion on his epic experience, but I wonder whether  anybody else has use them.  I would appreciate hearing from those boats as well.

Many thanks, you all

Aldo
Araucaria
Amel 55



On Thu,
--
CW Bill Rouse Amel Yacht Owners School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...


Joerg Esdorn
 

Hi Aldo, we’ve hove to once to fix a staysail sheet which was not holding.  Just had the reefed main up in 35 to 40 knots true.  The boat would lie sideways to the seas and winds and sit very quietly drifting downwind at 2 kn maybe.  Seas were not high west of Gibraltar so that was ok.  In more serious conditions, I would try to bring the bow up more with the mizzen.  


Joerg Esdorn
A55 Kincsem, # 53
Vigo, Spain


Miles
 

Hi Aldo,

After some new periods of heaving to, I thought I would share my experiences with the group and repeat the stories that I have told to you—please be patient, it is not all old.

The first time was in Hurricane Mitch which had crossed Florida back into the Atlantic, become a hurricane again, and was moving a 30 mph.   I had about two hours warning on my SSB (no satellite connections back then).  I prepared two drogues at the stern and a huge sea anchor at the bow.  The sea anchor was attached with 100 meters of big line, 20 meters of heavy chain, and another 100 meters of line.  I had the drogues and the sea anchor in the cockpit ready to be deployed.

When the storm arrived, I didn’t use the drogues because some of the waves were breaking and turning around didn’t seem to be a good idea; and before deploying the sea anchor, I wanted to see how long I could heave to.  I had about half the main out and a very small amount of jib, backed.  I have a big eye bolt about 2 feet under the engine controls for tying the wheel.  I used a heavy bungee that lets the wheel move some with the forces.  I tied the wheel so that the boat would head into the wind somewhat until a big wave landed on it and pushed it more sideways, after which it would head up for the next wave.  I had backed the jib because I was afraid the boat would tack through the wind.  It never came close.  The wind increased into the 60s and then the 70s.  The boat just kept doing the same thing and never felt in danger.  At some speed, the sails would have to have come down.  I was amazed that I didn’t feel this with the winds in the 70s.  The worst part was the noise.  Ear plugs would have helped.

Since then I have hove to in much less wind using just the main.  I have used this for repairs or for just a nice meal.   I find it remarkable how the sea appears to be more calm and the motion decreased when hove to. 

I had occasion to do a serious heaving to two weeks ago, on the way from Newport to Bermuda, I tried to race a storm across the Gulf Stream.  The storm won.  I hove to when the wind was in the thirties.  The wind increased into the forties and sometimes into the fifties.  I hove to under about half the main and the wheel tied with a very heavy bungee so that the boat would head up at about 2+ knots to about 40 degrees and then fall off to about 60-70 degrees and then head up again.  We averaged about 2 k forward speed.  As soon as I hove to, the commotion, the crashing into and off waves, and the waves washing over the boat simply stopped. Nothing landed in the cockpit.  The wind direction slowly changed and after 4-5 hours, I was able to add a little jib and sail out of the GS.  I think that the forereaching protects the rudder.  If the boat were to be thrown backwards by a wave, the forces on the rudder would be very great.

That is my experience. There is no “right way” to heave to.  I strongly recommend that everyone contemplating going off shore spend some time experimenting with different amounts of sail and rudder angles.  There will be some combination that feels best to you and to the boat. 

 

Regards,

Miles

s/y Ladybug, sm 216, resting at the dock at Le Marin, Martinique


Ian Townsend
 





Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------
From: Miles <milesbid@...>
Date: 2019-11-16 17:11 (GMT-05:00)
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Heaving-to experiences/advice, and Jordan series drogue use

Hi Aldo,

After some new periods of heaving to, I thought I would share my experiences with the group and repeat the stories that I have told to you—please be patient, it is not all old.

The first time was in Hurricane Mitch which had crossed Florida back into the Atlantic, become a hurricane again, and was moving a 30 mph.   I had about two hours warning on my SSB (no satellite connections back then).  I prepared two drogues at the stern and a huge sea anchor at the bow.  The sea anchor was attached with 100 meters of big line, 20 meters of heavy chain, and another 100 meters of line.  I had the drogues and the sea anchor in the cockpit ready to be deployed.

When the storm arrived, I didn’t use the drogues because some of the waves were breaking and turning around didn’t seem to be a good idea; and before deploying the sea anchor, I wanted to see how long I could heave to.  I had about half the main out and a very small amount of jib, backed.  I have a big eye bolt about 2 feet under the engine controls for tying the wheel.  I used a heavy bungee that lets the wheel move some with the forces.  I tied the wheel so that the boat would head into the wind somewhat until a big wave landed on it and pushed it more sideways, after which it would head up for the next wave.  I had backed the jib because I was afraid the boat would tack through the wind.  It never came close.  The wind increased into the 60s and then the 70s.  The boat just kept doing the same thing and never felt in danger.  At some speed, the sails would have to have come down.  I was amazed that I didn’t feel this with the winds in the 70s.  The worst part was the noise.  Ear plugs would have helped.

Since then I have hove to in much less wind using just the main.  I have used this for repairs or for just a nice meal.   I find it remarkable how the sea appears to be more calm and the motion decreased when hove to. 

I had occasion to do a serious heaving to two weeks ago, on the way from Newport to Bermuda, I tried to race a storm across the Gulf Stream.  The storm won.  I hove to when the wind was in the thirties.  The wind increased into the forties and sometimes into the fifties.  I hove to under about half the main and the wheel tied with a very heavy bungee so that the boat would head up at about 2+ knots to about 40 degrees and then fall off to about 60-70 degrees and then head up again.  We averaged about 2 k forward speed.  As soon as I hove to, the commotion, the crashing into and off waves, and the waves washing over the boat simply stopped. Nothing landed in the cockpit.  The wind direction slowly changed and after 4-5 hours, I was able to add a little jib and sail out of the GS.  I think that the forereaching protects the rudder.  If the boat were to be thrown backwards by a wave, the forces on the rudder would be very great.

That is my experience. There is no “right way” to heave to.  I strongly recommend that everyone contemplating going off shore spend some time experimenting with different amounts of sail and rudder angles.  There will be some combination that feels best to you and to the boat. 

 

Regards,

Miles

s/y Ladybug, sm 216, resting at the dock at Le Marin, Martinique


Aldo Roldan
 

Thank you, Miles.  When you are back I Newport, we can hopefully sail together and get Araucaria to heave to.  In the meantime, have a great time in Martinique!

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ian Townsend
Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2019 5:28 PM
To: Ian Townsend <townsend.ian.michael@...>; main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Heaving-to experiences/advice, and Jordan series drogue use

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Miles <milesbid@...>

Date: 2019-11-16 17:11 (GMT-05:00)

Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Heaving-to experiences/advice, and Jordan series drogue use

 

Hi Aldo,

After some new periods of heaving to, I thought I would share my experiences with the group and repeat the stories that I have told to you—please be patient, it is not all old.

The first time was in Hurricane Mitch which had crossed Florida back into the Atlantic, become a hurricane again, and was moving a 30 mph.   I had about two hours warning on my SSB (no satellite connections back then).  I prepared two drogues at the stern and a huge sea anchor at the bow.  The sea anchor was attached with 100 meters of big line, 20 meters of heavy chain, and another 100 meters of line.  I had the drogues and the sea anchor in the cockpit ready to be deployed.

When the storm arrived, I didn’t use the drogues because some of the waves were breaking and turning around didn’t seem to be a good idea; and before deploying the sea anchor, I wanted to see how long I could heave to.  I had about half the main out and a very small amount of jib, backed.  I have a big eye bolt about 2 feet under the engine controls for tying the wheel.  I used a heavy bungee that lets the wheel move some with the forces.  I tied the wheel so that the boat would head into the wind somewhat until a big wave landed on it and pushed it more sideways, after which it would head up for the next wave.  I had backed the jib because I was afraid the boat would tack through the wind.  It never came close.  The wind increased into the 60s and then the 70s.  The boat just kept doing the same thing and never felt in danger.  At some speed, the sails would have to have come down.  I was amazed that I didn’t feel this with the winds in the 70s.  The worst part was the noise.  Ear plugs would have helped.

Since then I have hove to in much less wind using just the main.  I have used this for repairs or for just a nice meal.   I find it remarkable how the sea appears to be more calm and the motion decreased when hove to. 

I had occasion to do a serious heaving to two weeks ago, on the way from Newport to Bermuda, I tried to race a storm across the Gulf Stream.  The storm won.  I hove to when the wind was in the thirties.  The wind increased into the forties and sometimes into the fifties.  I hove to under about half the main and the wheel tied with a very heavy bungee so that the boat would head up at about 2+ knots to about 40 degrees and then fall off to about 60-70 degrees and then head up again.  We averaged about 2 k forward speed.  As soon as I hove to, the commotion, the crashing into and off waves, and the waves washing over the boat simply stopped. Nothing landed in the cockpit.  The wind direction slowly changed and after 4-5 hours, I was able to add a little jib and sail out of the GS.  I think that the forereaching protects the rudder.  If the boat were to be thrown backwards by a wave, the forces on the rudder would be very great.

That is my experience. There is no “right way” to heave to.  I strongly recommend that everyone contemplating going off shore spend some time experimenting with different amounts of sail and rudder angles.  There will be some combination that feels best to you and to the boat. 

 

Regards,

Miles

s/y Ladybug, sm 216, resting at the dock at Le Marin, Martinique


david bruce
 

Thanks for sharing this Miles, helpful to those of us who have yet to experience such conditions and or are relative novice Amel owners. 

Best, 
Dave 
Liesse
SN006



On Nov 16, 2019, at 2:11 PM, Miles <milesbid@...> wrote:

Hi Aldo,

After some new periods of heaving to, I thought I would share my experiences with the group and repeat the stories that I have told to you—please be patient, it is not all old.

The first time was in Hurricane Mitch which had crossed Florida back into the Atlantic, become a hurricane again, and was moving a 30 mph.   I had about two hours warning on my SSB (no satellite connections back then).  I prepared two drogues at the stern and a huge sea anchor at the bow.  The sea anchor was attached with 100 meters of big line, 20 meters of heavy chain, and another 100 meters of line.  I had the drogues and the sea anchor in the cockpit ready to be deployed.

When the storm arrived, I didn’t use the drogues because some of the waves were breaking and turning around didn’t seem to be a good idea; and before deploying the sea anchor, I wanted to see how long I could heave to.  I had about half the main out and a very small amount of jib, backed.  I have a big eye bolt about 2 feet under the engine controls for tying the wheel.  I used a heavy bungee that lets the wheel move some with the forces.  I tied the wheel so that the boat would head into the wind somewhat until a big wave landed on it and pushed it more sideways, after which it would head up for the next wave.  I had backed the jib because I was afraid the boat would tack through the wind.  It never came close.  The wind increased into the 60s and then the 70s.  The boat just kept doing the same thing and never felt in danger.  At some speed, the sails would have to have come down.  I was amazed that I didn’t feel this with the winds in the 70s.  The worst part was the noise.  Ear plugs would have helped.

Since then I have hove to in much less wind using just the main.  I have used this for repairs or for just a nice meal.   I find it remarkable how the sea appears to be more calm and the motion decreased when hove to. 

I had occasion to do a serious heaving to two weeks ago, on the way from Newport to Bermuda, I tried to race a storm across the Gulf Stream.  The storm won.  I hove to when the wind was in the thirties.  The wind increased into the forties and sometimes into the fifties.  I hove to under about half the main and the wheel tied with a very heavy bungee so that the boat would head up at about 2+ knots to about 40 degrees and then fall off to about 60-70 degrees and then head up again.  We averaged about 2 k forward speed.  As soon as I hove to, the commotion, the crashing into and off waves, and the waves washing over the boat simply stopped. Nothing landed in the cockpit.  The wind direction slowly changed and after 4-5 hours, I was able to add a little jib and sail out of the GS.  I think that the forereaching protects the rudder.  If the boat were to be thrown backwards by a wave, the forces on the rudder would be very great.

That is my experience. There is no “right way” to heave to.  I strongly recommend that everyone contemplating going off shore spend some time experimenting with different amounts of sail and rudder angles.  There will be some combination that feels best to you and to the boat. 

 

Regards,

Miles

s/y Ladybug, sm 216, resting at the dock at Le Marin, Martinique


Alan Leslie
 

Our B&G wind speed meter only goes to 50 knots. I'd be interested to know what meter there is that goes to 70 knots or more as folk are saying.
However, heaving to :
Elyse has an inner forestay, so we heave to with the staysail and the mizzen (jib and jigger). They balance each other well and provide an easy controllable way to heave to.
Sailing to windward, we just tack and don't touch the sheets, then find the rudder angle that keeps us forereaching and tie off the wheel to the stainless thingy that's next to the companion way ...it's for the companion way lock down, burglar proof system (which we have never used).
We have done this successfully a number of times when the wind and sea was just getting too much...eg from NZ to Tahiti we were hit by a fast moving depression which made BIG seas and winds 50+, we hove to over night, had a meal, hot shower and a good sleep. In the am the breeze was down to a much more reasonable 40 knots so we loosened the helm, the breeze blew us around and out of the hove to position, and off we went again...under staysail and mizzen until the breeze came down enough to unfurl the main. 
We have a Shark drogue in the lazarette set up to go, but have never had the need to use it, apart from testing it out...but then we seem to spend a lot of time sailing upwind in weather, not downwind. Such is life in the south of the South Pacific.

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Miles
 

Hi Alan,

 

Your B&G has a digital meter readout over the cart table that reads whatever speed the wind is.   

 

Regards,

 

Miles  s/y Ladybug, sm216  in Le Marin, Martinique


Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222
 

Jes but will i know when it is more then 50 kn ???

Best Elja
SM Balu 222


Von meinem iPhone gesendet


Alan Leslie
 

Thanks Miles,
Next time we're in over 50 knots, I'll duck down and have a look at that....  Seriously,  I will 
Thanks 
Cheers 
Alan Elyse SM 437


Alexander Hofmann
 

Thanks Alan, Miles,
I am happy to learn from your experiences in heaing-to with the staysail and the mizzen. I did not use the mizzen yet for that, and it is just very logic that you can balance the Amel ketches with both sails in a heaving-to situation.
Many long distance sailors, also singled-handed ones, report excellent experiences in really rough seas, even far upon 50 kts, with the Jordan sea drogue. Some spak About life saving. I plan to install one. Does anybody have experiences with the Jordan Sea Drogue on an Amel ketch? How does it perform? How do you retrieve it?
Thanks, happy to hear from you.
Alexander
SY Oceanica I, Amel54 #156


karkauai
 

Alexander, search this forum for Jordan Drogue and you will find detailed post from Eric on Kimberlite about using one in hurricane conditions.

Kent
S/V Kristy
SM 243

On Nov 22, 2019, at 6:39 AM, Alexander Hofmann <DACJ@...> wrote:

Thanks Alan, Miles,
I am happy to learn from your experiences in heaing-to with the staysail and the mizzen. I did not use the mizzen yet for that, and it is just very logic that you can balance the Amel ketches with both sails in a heaving-to situation.
Many long distance sailors, also singled-handed ones, report excellent experiences in really rough seas, even far upon 50 kts, with the Jordan sea drogue. Some spak About life saving. I plan to install one. Does anybody have experiences with the Jordan Sea Drogue on an Amel ketch? How does it perform? How do you retrieve it?
Thanks, happy to hear from you.
Alexander
SY Oceanica I, Amel54 #156


Alexander Hofmann
 

Hi Kent,
thanks for your advice.
What Eric on Kimberlite reports is really impressive - and completely in line with what I have heard from other sailors with gale / storm / hurricane experiences. 
What our Amel's do stand and perform in heaving-to is already more than amazing, but the Jordan Sea Drogue is 'the saviour'.
I have decided now finally to install one. 
For questions of the bridle (I have a bring at the Stern for solar / wind turbines / dinghy) and retrieval and where to buy I will contact Eric directly. 
Once again thanks a lot and happy saling with JSD onboard without taking her out!
Alexander
SY Oceanica I, Amel54 #156


rossirossix4
 

As others have noted, good descriptions in our Group.  Also.... http://www.oceannavigator.com/March-April-2011/Prepare-for-survival-conditions/

Bob,KAIMI SM429