Topics

Paranoia about the D3-110 Volvo Penta - diesel bug


Scott SV Tengah
 

My paranoia about my Volvo D3-110 (rev c) has been kicked back into high gear. I think this applies to anyone with a diesel engine but particularly with the hyper sensitive D3-110.

I know a few A54 owners with failed D3-110 due to water ingress. We've discussed that on another thread. I'll leave that discussion there.

Recently I met a HR46 owner who had to lag behind the World ARC ($$$$!) because of diesel bug issues on his D3-110C. Another HR48 owner had the same issue and in both cases, the engine died and wouldn't start back up. His tank was disgusting, apparently. I've opened my inspection hatches and my tank is nearly pristine. But I am not going to rest on my laurels. 

What do you guys do to keep your fuel system clean? Here's my procedure and I hope I can improve on it with your help:

1) Diesel only from places that get high turnover. We aim for duty-free, so they're usually in high demand.
2) Outside of the US and EU, we use the Baja filter. Damn slow at only around 8liters per minute, but you gotta do what you gotta do... That said, I know of a few owners in the EU who have had diesel bug - seems more prevalent with biodiesel.

One idea to reduce filling time (900/8 = nearly two hours!!) is to use the Baja Filter to fill up our spare 20liter jerry can and then inspect the Baja filter. If all is good, just fill up the boat without the filter.

3) I use BioBor JF. I don't know if it's the best, but I found a bottle in the US that was enough to treat 10,000 liters, so that was my decision making criteria.
4) I have 10 micron Racor filters in the water separator filters. I carry 15 filters aboard.  Two micron in the Volvo, per spec.
5) Pray.

What do you all do to ensure you aren't stricken by the bug?


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Porter McRoberts
 

Exactly all of what you do Scott.  I also have about 20 2 micron racors and use the 2 micron as pre filters.  I change more frequently too. Every 100 hrs or so.  Id love to install a fuel polishing system.  We use the biocide etc.  On the BAJA we use the “Mr. Funnel system (amazon)” with two screens: it's very fast, as fast as I can pour from a Jerry can.  
And, of course as you suggest, lots of prayer.
As you know we had lots of D3 issues.  Even though our new “H” model runs beautifully, I would have gotten a Beta, had I been paying for it.  

Best of Luck

Porter
S/V IBIS A54-152


On Feb 9, 2020, at 9:28 AM, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

My paranoia about my Volvo D3-110 (rev c) has been kicked back into high gear. I think this applies to anyone with a diesel engine but particularly with the hyper sensitive D3-110.

I know a few A54 owners with failed D3-110 due to water ingress. We've discussed that on another thread. I'll leave that discussion there.

Recently I met a HR46 owner who had to lag behind the World ARC ($$$$!) because of diesel bug issues on his D3-110C. Another HR48 owner had the same issue and in both cases, the engine died and wouldn't start back up. His tank was disgusting, apparently. I've opened my inspection hatches and my tank is nearly pristine. But I am not going to rest on my laurels. 

What do you guys do to keep your fuel system clean? Here's my procedure and I hope I can improve on it with your help:

1) Diesel only from places that get high turnover. We aim for duty-free, so they're usually in high demand.
2) Outside of the US and EU, we use the Baja filter. Damn slow at only around 8liters per minute, but you gotta do what you gotta do... That said, I know of a few owners in the EU who have had diesel bug - seems more prevalent with biodiesel.

One idea to reduce filling time (900/8 = nearly two hours!!) is to use the Baja Filter to fill up our spare 20liter jerry can and then inspect the Baja filter. If all is good, just fill up the boat without the filter.

3) I use BioBor JF. I don't know if it's the best, but I found a bottle in the US that was enough to treat 10,000 liters, so that was my decision making criteria.
4) I have 10 micron Racor filters in the water separator filters. I carry 15 filters aboard.  Two micron in the Volvo, per spec.
5) Pray.

What do you all do to ensure you aren't stricken by the bug?


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Wolfgang Weber
 

Hi Scott,
The problem is ( in EU) Diesel contains 7 % Biodiesel which is hydrophil and this will bring water into the diesel and growth of bacteria = the dieselbug will follow.
A good tested product in Germany is Grotamar , but you will find similar poducts in US.
I use it since first filling.
Wolfgang Weber SY Elise Amel 54 #162





ngtnewington Newington
 

Hi Scott,

Cleanliness is next to Godliness! 

So a certain amount of paranoia is a good thing. I did spend some time considering installing a fuel polishing system but in the end I decided to just keep a good eye on the primary fuel filters. Remember that when you run the engine or the generator most of the fuel is returned to the tank having been through the whole filter system. There is thus a good deal of self polishing from use.

Nick

S/Y Amelia AML 54 019
Kilada Greece

On 9 Feb 2020, at 14:28, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

My paranoia about my Volvo D3-110 (rev c) has been kicked back into high gear. I think this applies to anyone with a diesel engine but particularly with the hyper sensitive D3-110.

I know a few A54 owners with failed D3-110 due to water ingress. We've discussed that on another thread. I'll leave that discussion there.

Recently I met a HR46 owner who had to lag behind the World ARC ($$$$!) because of diesel bug issues on his D3-110C. Another HR48 owner had the same issue and in both cases, the engine died and wouldn't start back up. His tank was disgusting, apparently. I've opened my inspection hatches and my tank is nearly pristine. But I am not going to rest on my laurels. 

What do you guys do to keep your fuel system clean? Here's my procedure and I hope I can improve on it with your help:

1) Diesel only from places that get high turnover. We aim for duty-free, so they're usually in high demand.
2) Outside of the US and EU, we use the Baja filter. Damn slow at only around 8liters per minute, but you gotta do what you gotta do... That said, I know of a few owners in the EU who have had diesel bug - seems more prevalent with biodiesel.

One idea to reduce filling time (900/8 = nearly two hours!!) is to use the Baja Filter to fill up our spare 20liter jerry can and then inspect the Baja filter. If all is good, just fill up the boat without the filter.

3) I use BioBor JF. I don't know if it's the best, but I found a bottle in the US that was enough to treat 10,000 liters, so that was my decision making criteria.
4) I have 10 micron Racor filters in the water separator filters. I carry 15 filters aboard.  Two micron in the Volvo, per spec.
5) Pray.

What do you all do to ensure you aren't stricken by the bug?


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Matt Salatino
 

There are only two ways to keep your fuel tank, when you store a boat:
1) completely full, to the top
2) bone dry, empty.
Chapter 1:
The reason is that during the course of the day, air expands and contracts. If there is an air space in your fuel tank, air is constantly flowing into and out of the tank through the vent line, due to the normal expansion and contraction of air as the temperature rises and falls during the course of the day. The problem is that the fuel, a liquid, with a much higher specific heat (capacity to hold heat)remains at a more constant temperature. This heat sink of the fuel in the tank causes much of the water vapor in the air, to condense to liquid water in the tank. Only a little bit every day. A few months of this activity in a relatively humid (sea air) environment can produce a significant amount of liquid water, that settles to the bottom of your tank.
Chapter 2:
Diesel bug is an algae that has developed the ability to survive by eating diesel fuel, and using the water at the fuel water interface to get oxygen. So the bug lives, reproduces and dies in that fuel/water interface, producing the black gooey sludge.
Having a partially empty tank exacerbates this problem.

Storing your boat with completely full tanks eliminates the air space, so moist air does not get in and can’t condense its moisture in the fuel. An empty tank (difficult to do) doesn’t provide the heat sink to cause the water to condense so fast. It will to some extent, but not so rapidly.

We’ve experienced this first hand. After cleaning our tank we were bug free for about 5 years, traveling through The Caribbean, storing the boat every hurricane season in the tropics. One season, we forgot to fill the tank, and had diesel bug the next cruising season.
I also think using Biobor or equivalent, is a good thing.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Feb 9, 2020, at 9:28 AM, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

My paranoia about my Volvo D3-110 (rev c) has been kicked back into high gear. I think this applies to anyone with a diesel engine but particularly with the hyper sensitive D3-110.

I know a few A54 owners with failed D3-110 due to water ingress. We've discussed that on another thread. I'll leave that discussion there.

Recently I met a HR46 owner who had to lag behind the World ARC ($$$$!) because of diesel bug issues on his D3-110C. Another HR48 owner had the same issue and in both cases, the engine died and wouldn't start back up. His tank was disgusting, apparently. I've opened my inspection hatches and my tank is nearly pristine. But I am not going to rest on my laurels. 

What do you guys do to keep your fuel system clean? Here's my procedure and I hope I can improve on it with your help:

1) Diesel only from places that get high turnover. We aim for duty-free, so they're usually in high demand.
2) Outside of the US and EU, we use the Baja filter. Damn slow at only around 8liters per minute, but you gotta do what you gotta do... That said, I know of a few owners in the EU who have had diesel bug - seems more prevalent with biodiesel.

One idea to reduce filling time (900/8 = nearly two hours!!) is to use the Baja Filter to fill up our spare 20liter jerry can and then inspect the Baja filter. If all is good, just fill up the boat without the filter.

3) I use BioBor JF. I don't know if it's the best, but I found a bottle in the US that was enough to treat 10,000 liters, so that was my decision making criteria.
4) I have 10 micron Racor filters in the water separator filters. I carry 15 filters aboard.  Two micron in the Volvo, per spec.
5) Pray.

What do you all do to ensure you aren't stricken by the bug?


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Dan Carlson
 

Hi Scott, I really can't say what I do is right, but here are a few things that seem to work for me so far. 
1) I try to use more than half the tank before refueling to replace the old with fresh. That is dependent on having it available when you need it, but we are in the Caribbean. 2) we have avoided biodiesel. 3) I use StarTron treatment as that has been what was available when I have needed to replenish. 4) I leave the tank full during the off season to reduce condensation  from air that enters thru the vent during the daily temperature cycles. 5) I have inspected my tank twice in 4 years when there was less than 200 liters in the tank (I could not see the bottom of the tank when there was more than 200 liters). The walls and floor we're shiny, but both times there were several small 50cm2 patches of slime on the floor. I attached a 2 meter length of small fuel hose to my fuel dipstick with a couple zip-ties and then stuck the end of the hose into the slime spot and sucked it up with a 5 liter vacuum fluid (oil)extractor.  6) I also shine a light thru the racor bowls regularly to monitor if any sludge is getting into them.

The risk of running the fuel tank low is that rough seas will break loose and break up any accumulated sludge.  

Best regards,  Daniel Carlson on sm #387, sv BeBe

On Sun, Feb 9, 2020, 9:28 AM Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@... wrote:
My paranoia about my Volvo D3-110 (rev c) has been kicked back into high gear. I think this applies to anyone with a diesel engine but particularly with the hyper sensitive D3-110.

I know a few A54 owners with failed D3-110 due to water ingress. We've discussed that on another thread. I'll leave that discussion there.

Recently I met a HR46 owner who had to lag behind the World ARC ($$$$!) because of diesel bug issues on his D3-110C. Another HR48 owner had the same issue and in both cases, the engine died and wouldn't start back up. His tank was disgusting, apparently. I've opened my inspection hatches and my tank is nearly pristine. But I am not going to rest on my laurels. 

What do you guys do to keep your fuel system clean? Here's my procedure and I hope I can improve on it with your help:

1) Diesel only from places that get high turnover. We aim for duty-free, so they're usually in high demand.
2) Outside of the US and EU, we use the Baja filter. Damn slow at only around 8liters per minute, but you gotta do what you gotta do... That said, I know of a few owners in the EU who have had diesel bug - seems more prevalent with biodiesel.

One idea to reduce filling time (900/8 = nearly two hours!!) is to use the Baja Filter to fill up our spare 20liter jerry can and then inspect the Baja filter. If all is good, just fill up the boat without the filter.

3) I use BioBor JF. I don't know if it's the best, but I found a bottle in the US that was enough to treat 10,000 liters, so that was my decision making criteria.
4) I have 10 micron Racor filters in the water separator filters. I carry 15 filters aboard.  Two micron in the Volvo, per spec.
5) Pray.

What do you all do to ensure you aren't stricken by the bug?


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Scott SV Tengah
 

Porter,

I have the two racor filter setup. I consider this the primary filter / pre-filter.

Options:

1) FilterA only
2) FilterB only
3) FilterA and FilterB in parallel

Do you run the 2 micron filters here?

On my D3-110C there's a Volvo spin-on filter (2 micron) on the engine itself. We'll call that FilterC

Did you install a pre-filter before the Racors??
--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Porter McRoberts
 

I understand. We have the same setup. The dual racor (A vs B) and A+B if one wishes.  We keep the 2 micron on both A and B and use only A or B, switching back and forth.  Filter C is of course the very pricey Volvo-specific filter/fuel water separator, which is what I want to spare by using the 2 micron.  I watch the pressure gauge on the racors a lot.  That’s why we change frequently, to keep pressures low.  We have no pre-pre filters.  

I remember a thread on this about a year ago, the 2 micron pre-filter argument.  That’s when we switched.  Its hard to be scientific when we have limited data re what works “best.”

Great comments on why to keep the tank full during storage.

Porter A54-152

On Feb 9, 2020, at 10:02 AM, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

Porter,

I have the two racor filter setup. I consider this the primary filter / pre-filter.

Options:

1) FilterA only
2) FilterB only
3) FilterA and FilterB in parallel

Do you run the 2 micron filters here?

On my D3-110C there's a Volvo spin-on filter (2 micron) on the engine itself. We'll call that FilterC

Did you install a pre-filter before the Racors??
--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


ngtnewington Newington
 

Hi Scott and Porter,

I choose to use a 10 or even 30 micron filter on the Racor followed by the Volvo secondary filter which is 2 micron I believe.

In my opinion by having the pre-filter at 2 micron you are in effect only having one filter. So in the event of major contamination the Racor will plug and the engine will suffer from fuel starvation. You may also damage the fuel pump, although on the 54 the fuel is gravity fed from the tank to the filters.

The same principle applies to the water maker. There is a course filter followed by the fine filter. You can not just go straight to the fine.

I know this is a controversial subject but that is my opinion….and the industry norm.

Nick

Amelia AML 54-019
Kilada Greece

On 9 Feb 2020, at 15:10, Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io <portermcroberts@...> wrote:

I understand. We have the same setup. The dual racor (A vs B) and A+B if one wishes.  We keep the 2 micron on both A and B and use only A or B, switching back and forth.  Filter C is of course the very pricey Volvo-specific filter/fuel water separator, which is what I want to spare by using the 2 micron. I watch the pressure gauge on the racors a lot.  That’s why we change frequently, to keep pressures low.  We have no pre-pre filters.  

I remember a thread on this about a year ago, the 2 micron pre-filter argument.  That’s when we switched.  Its hard to be scientific when we have limited data re what works “best.”

Great comments on why to keep the tank full during storage.

Porter A54-152

On Feb 9, 2020, at 10:02 AM, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

Porter,

I have the two racor filter setup. I consider this the primary filter / pre-filter.

Options:

1) FilterA only
2) FilterB only
3) FilterA and FilterB in parallel

Do you run the 2 micron filters here?

On my D3-110C there's a Volvo spin-on filter (2 micron) on the engine itself. We'll call that FilterC

Did you install a pre-filter before the Racors??
-- 
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com



Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown
 

Hi all,

 

My dip stick tells me I have a fairly thick coat of sludge at the bottom of the tank. I have just done a short but fairly rough passage, motor sailing, with 170 litres in the tank, and did not have any fuel problem. I have been aiming to get it as low as I can before figuring out how to clean the tank. Presumably I should suck out the remaining fuel – about 150 litres now – then use some combined mechanical/chemical means of cleaning the bottom. Not really sure how to go about that so any advice would be well appreciated.

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dan Carlson
Sent: 09 February 2020 11:00
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Paranoia about the D3-110 Volvo Penta - diesel bug

 

Hi Scott, I really can't say what I do is right, but here are a few things that seem to work for me so far. 

1) I try to use more than half the tank before refueling to replace the old with fresh. That is dependent on having it available when you need it, but we are in the Caribbean. 2) we have avoided biodiesel. 3) I use StarTron treatment as that has been what was available when I have needed to replenish. 4) I leave the tank full during the off season to reduce condensation  from air that enters thru the vent during the daily temperature cycles. 5) I have inspected my tank twice in 4 years when there was less than 200 liters in the tank (I could not see the bottom of the tank when there was more than 200 liters). The walls and floor we're shiny, but both times there were several small 50cm2 patches of slime on the floor. I attached a 2 meter length of small fuel hose to my fuel dipstick with a couple zip-ties and then stuck the end of the hose into the slime spot and sucked it up with a 5 liter vacuum fluid (oil)extractor.  6) I also shine a light thru the racor bowls regularly to monitor if any sludge is getting into them.

 

The risk of running the fuel tank low is that rough seas will break loose and break up any accumulated sludge.  

 

Best regards,  Daniel Carlson on sm #387, sv BeBe

 

On Sun, Feb 9, 2020, 9:28 AM Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@... wrote:

My paranoia about my Volvo D3-110 (rev c) has been kicked back into high gear. I think this applies to anyone with a diesel engine but particularly with the hyper sensitive D3-110.

I know a few A54 owners with failed D3-110 due to water ingress. We've discussed that on another thread. I'll leave that discussion there.

Recently I met a HR46 owner who had to lag behind the World ARC ($$$$!) because of diesel bug issues on his D3-110C. Another HR48 owner had the same issue and in both cases, the engine died and wouldn't start back up. His tank was disgusting, apparently. I've opened my inspection hatches and my tank is nearly pristine. But I am not going to rest on my laurels. 

What do you guys do to keep your fuel system clean? Here's my procedure and I hope I can improve on it with your help:

1) Diesel only from places that get high turnover. We aim for duty-free, so they're usually in high demand.
2) Outside of the US and EU, we use the Baja filter. Damn slow at only around 8liters per minute, but you gotta do what you gotta do... That said, I know of a few owners in the EU who have had diesel bug - seems more prevalent with biodiesel.

One idea to reduce filling time (900/8 = nearly two hours!!) is to use the Baja Filter to fill up our spare 20liter jerry can and then inspect the Baja filter. If all is good, just fill up the boat without the filter.

3) I use BioBor JF. I don't know if it's the best, but I found a bottle in the US that was enough to treat 10,000 liters, so that was my decision making criteria.
4) I have 10 micron Racor filters in the water separator filters. I carry 15 filters aboard.  Two micron in the Volvo, per spec.
5) Pray.

What do you all do to ensure you aren't stricken by the bug?


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98


Porter McRoberts
 

Paul  Where are you?  
We used a professional fuel polisher person who came to the baot and with a pump and a bunch of filters.  He washed the tank with the fuel and filtered all the fuel and put back in the tank.  Tank and fuel was spotless afterwards.  It's a service available in many places.  That may be the way to go.

Porter A54-152

On Feb 9, 2020, at 11:00 AM, Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...> wrote:

Hi all,
 
My dip stick tells me I have a fairly thick coat of sludge at the bottom of the tank. I have just done a short but fairly rough passage, motor sailing, with 170 litres in the tank, and did not have any fuel problem. I have been aiming to get it as low as I can before figuring out how to clean the tank. Presumably I should suck out the remaining fuel – about 150 litres now – then use some combined mechanical/chemical means of cleaning the bottom. Not really sure how to go about that so any advice would be well appreciated.
 
Cheers,
Paul
S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98
 
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dan Carlson
Sent: 09 February 2020 11:00
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Paranoia about the D3-110 Volvo Penta - diesel bug
 
Hi Scott, I really can't say what I do is right, but here are a few things that seem to work for me so far. 
1) I try to use more than half the tank before refueling to replace the old with fresh. That is dependent on having it available when you need it, but we are in the Caribbean. 2) we have avoided biodiesel. 3) I use StarTron treatment as that has been what was available when I have needed to replenish. 4) I leave the tank full during the off season to reduce condensation  from air that enters thru the vent during the daily temperature cycles. 5) I have inspected my tank twice in 4 years when there was less than 200 liters in the tank (I could not see the bottom of the tank when there was more than 200 liters). The walls and floor we're shiny, but both times there were several small 50cm2 patches of slime on the floor. I attached a 2 meter length of small fuel hose to my fuel dipstick with a couple zip-ties and then stuck the end of the hose into the slime spot and sucked it up with a 5 liter vacuum fluid (oil)extractor.  6) I also shine a light thru the racor bowls regularly to monitor if any sludge is getting into them.
 
The risk of running the fuel tank low is that rough seas will break loose and break up any accumulated sludge.  
 
Best regards,  Daniel Carlson on sm #387, sv BeBe
 
On Sun, Feb 9, 2020, 9:28 AM Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@... wrote:
My paranoia about my Volvo D3-110 (rev c) has been kicked back into high gear. I think this applies to anyone with a diesel engine but particularly with the hyper sensitive D3-110.

I know a few A54 owners with failed D3-110 due to water ingress. We've discussed that on another thread. I'll leave that discussion there.

Recently I met a HR46 owner who had to lag behind the World ARC ($$$$!) because of diesel bug issues on his D3-110C. Another HR48 owner had the same issue and in both cases, the engine died and wouldn't start back up. His tank was disgusting, apparently. I've opened my inspection hatches and my tank is nearly pristine. But I am not going to rest on my laurels. 

What do you guys do to keep your fuel system clean? Here's my procedure and I hope I can improve on it with your help:

1) Diesel only from places that get high turnover. We aim for duty-free, so they're usually in high demand.
2) Outside of the US and EU, we use the Baja filter. Damn slow at only around 8liters per minute, but you gotta do what you gotta do... That said, I know of a few owners in the EU who have had diesel bug - seems more prevalent with biodiesel.

One idea to reduce filling time (900/8 = nearly two hours!!) is to use the Baja Filter to fill up our spare 20liter jerry can and then inspect the Baja filter. If all is good, just fill up the boat without the filter.

3) I use BioBor JF. I don't know if it's the best, but I found a bottle in the US that was enough to treat 10,000 liters, so that was my decision making criteria.
4) I have 10 micron Racor filters in the water separator filters. I carry 15 filters aboard.  Two micron in the Volvo, per spec.
5) Pray.

What do you all do to ensure you aren't stricken by the bug?


-- 
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


-- 
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98


Porter McRoberts
 

I agree Nick— You're right, certainly about the industry norm.  And I’m sure there are many theories on this: and mine may be incorrect.  But the way I think of it: Crud exists in a myriad of sizes.  Crud forms… then  gets into the filter system and clogs.  If i have a series of sequentially smaller sized filters, i simply clog them all. and then replace them all.  If a bolus of crud makes it into the sequential filtering setup: filters essentially sort the crud into smaller sizes at a great cost (especially with the last Volvo filter now being fouled).  So we've cruised with the 2 micron setup for about 500 hours of motoring from panama to NZ last year and it seemed to work well.  no issues.  Filters seemed pretty good looking when i changed them  Usually around 100 hrs,  (I previously was quite derelict about it, prior to really understanding how important clean fuel was.)  I have noticed the manometer pressure reading on the setup would climb slightly over the 100 hrs, but never concerningly high.  
So scenario above A, with ostensibly clean fuel, worked for us, for this while.


So… Scenario B: Cruddy fuel shows up.  A slosh of crud makes it into the filter setup. (is this an isolated bit of crud, or does it advertize a yet much larger crub problem in the tank)  Currently it would saturate the 2 micron first filter and pressures climb, engine shuts down alerting us to a pressure scenario  and we change filter: but now we know we have cruddy fuel and need to polish it and the tank. (and why I’d like a separate fuel polishing system on board.)  Heres where my scenario breaks down: it depends on the amount of crud: pump it out and through baja filter into jerry cans? then run engine off jerry cans?  or...( I do have a bunch of 10mn  and 30mn sizes as well) as well put those on and let the filters clean the crud out: but if I increase the racor size then ill be clogging my 130$ volvo filters very fast: i carry about 4 of those, They're proprietary and hard to get in places.  It turns into a "S" show.  

So what's governed our cruising: sail smart, with wind as much as possible so we motor little.  Praise our relatively large 900 litre tank, and the freedom it adds to be discriminate about fuel choice. When others are fueling out of necessity, i find myself adding fuel not because i think we're low, but…  hey were sailors and should keep topped up stores.  

I'd be surprised if I’d completely thought this through, I'm sure there are some folks who really understand this at a much deeper level and I would love to hear from them and you.

And as you note Nick, it is the industry norm, and usually there is good reason for that!  To that end, if the Volvo-proprietary “C” filters were as inexpensive as the racors—I’d also stick to industry norm.  

I’d respectfully welcome any thinking and guidance.

Porter A54-154 with a  “H” model D3-110






On Feb 9, 2020, at 10:42 AM, ngtnewington Newington via Groups.Io <ngtnewington@...> wrote:

Hi Scott and Porter,

I choose to use a 10 or even 30 micron filter on the Racor followed by the Volvo secondary filter which is 2 micron I believe.

In my opinion by having the pre-filter at 2 micron you are in effect only having one filter. So in the event of major contamination the Racor will plug and the engine will suffer from fuel starvation. You may also damage the fuel pump, although on the 54 the fuel is gravity fed from the tank to the filters.

The same principle applies to the water maker. There is a course filter followed by the fine filter. You can not just go straight to the fine.

I know this is a controversial subject but that is my opinion….and the industry norm.

Nick

Amelia AML 54-019
Kilada Greece
On 9 Feb 2020, at 15:10, Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io <portermcroberts@...> wrote:

I understand. We have the same setup. The dual racor (A vs B) and A+B if one wishes.  We keep the 2 micron on both A and B and use only A or B, switching back and forth.  Filter C is of course the very pricey Volvo-specific filter/fuel water separator, which is what I want to spare by using the 2 micron. I watch the pressure gauge on the racors a lot.  That’s why we change frequently, to keep pressures low.  We have no pre-pre filters.  

I remember a thread on this about a year ago, the 2 micron pre-filter argument.  That’s when we switched.  Its hard to be scientific when we have limited data re what works “best.”

Great comments on why to keep the tank full during storage.

Porter A54-152

On Feb 9, 2020, at 10:02 AM, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

Porter,

I have the two racor filter setup. I consider this the primary filter / pre-filter.

Options:

1) FilterA only
2) FilterB only
3) FilterA and FilterB in parallel

Do you run the 2 micron filters here?

On my D3-110C there's a Volvo spin-on filter (2 micron) on the engine itself. We'll call that FilterC

Did you install a pre-filter before the Racors??
-- 
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com




Scott SV Tengah
 
Edited

Porter, 

Next time you have people visit from the us, have them bring you this, 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001DRNO6G?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

It's a direct fit for the volvo fuel filter according to the cross reference charts (haven't tested yet). 

I saw it for $10 once and bought all their stock. 

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown
 

Porter,

 

That seems like a good idea to me. We’re in Grenada – I will make some enquiries. If not here then maybe I will just refill the tank for now and wait until I find a place that has this facility and hope they can deal with an almost full tank.

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io
Sent: 09 February 2020 12:14
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Paranoia about the D3-110 Volvo Penta - diesel bug

 

Paul  Where are you?  

We used a professional fuel polisher person who came to the baot and with a pump and a bunch of filters.  He washed the tank with the fuel and filtered all the fuel and put back in the tank.  Tank and fuel was spotless afterwards.  It's a service available in many places.  That may be the way to go.

 

Porter A54-152



On Feb 9, 2020, at 11:00 AM, Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...> wrote:

 

Hi all,

 

My dip stick tells me I have a fairly thick coat of sludge at the bottom of the tank. I have just done a short but fairly rough passage, motor sailing, with 170 litres in the tank, and did not have any fuel problem. I have been aiming to get it as low as I can before figuring out how to clean the tank. Presumably I should suck out the remaining fuel – about 150 litres now – then use some combined mechanical/chemical means of cleaning the bottom. Not really sure how to go about that so any advice would be well appreciated.

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dan Carlson
Sent: 09 February 2020 11:00
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Paranoia about the D3-110 Volvo Penta - diesel bug

 

Hi Scott, I really can't say what I do is right, but here are a few things that seem to work for me so far. 

1) I try to use more than half the tank before refueling to replace the old with fresh. That is dependent on having it available when you need it, but we are in the Caribbean. 2) we have avoided biodiesel. 3) I use StarTron treatment as that has been what was available when I have needed to replenish. 4) I leave the tank full during the off season to reduce condensation  from air that enters thru the vent during the daily temperature cycles. 5) I have inspected my tank twice in 4 years when there was less than 200 liters in the tank (I could not see the bottom of the tank when there was more than 200 liters). The walls and floor we're shiny, but both times there were several small 50cm2 patches of slime on the floor. I attached a 2 meter length of small fuel hose to my fuel dipstick with a couple zip-ties and then stuck the end of the hose into the slime spot and sucked it up with a 5 liter vacuum fluid (oil)extractor.  6) I also shine a light thru the racor bowls regularly to monitor if any sludge is getting into them.

 

The risk of running the fuel tank low is that rough seas will break loose and break up any accumulated sludge.  

 

Best regards,  Daniel Carlson on sm #387, sv BeBe

 

On Sun, Feb 9, 2020, 9:28 AM Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@... wrote:

My paranoia about my Volvo D3-110 (rev c) has been kicked back into high gear. I think this applies to anyone with a diesel engine but particularly with the hyper sensitive D3-110.

I know a few A54 owners with failed D3-110 due to water ingress. We've discussed that on another thread. I'll leave that discussion there.

Recently I met a HR46 owner who had to lag behind the World ARC ($$$$!) because of diesel bug issues on his D3-110C. Another HR48 owner had the same issue and in both cases, the engine died and wouldn't start back up. His tank was disgusting, apparently. I've opened my inspection hatches and my tank is nearly pristine. But I am not going to rest on my laurels. 

What do you guys do to keep your fuel system clean? Here's my procedure and I hope I can improve on it with your help:

1) Diesel only from places that get high turnover. We aim for duty-free, so they're usually in high demand.
2) Outside of the US and EU, we use the Baja filter. Damn slow at only around 8liters per minute, but you gotta do what you gotta do... That said, I know of a few owners in the EU who have had diesel bug - seems more prevalent with biodiesel.

One idea to reduce filling time (900/8 = nearly two hours!!) is to use the Baja Filter to fill up our spare 20liter jerry can and then inspect the Baja filter. If all is good, just fill up the boat without the filter.

3) I use BioBor JF. I don't know if it's the best, but I found a bottle in the US that was enough to treat 10,000 liters, so that was my decision making criteria.
4) I have 10 micron Racor filters in the water separator filters. I carry 15 filters aboard.  Two micron in the Volvo, per spec.
5) Pray.

What do you all do to ensure you aren't stricken by the bug?


-- 
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


-- 
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

 


--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98


James Alton
 

Some great discussion here.  One item that I did not see discussed that could be  helpful especially in humid climates is adding a dessicant dryer to the vent line.  Regular replacement and lubrication of the O ring seal at the fill cap is important as well.  Best of luck.

James
SV Sueno
Maramu #220

On Feb 9, 2020 11:49 AM, "Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io" <portermcroberts@...> wrote:
I agree Nick— You're right, certainly about the industry norm.  And I’m sure there are many theories on this: and mine may be incorrect.  But the way I think of it: Crud exists in a myriad of sizes.  Crud forms… then  gets into the filter system and clogs.  If i have a series of sequentially smaller sized filters, i simply clog them all. and then replace them all.  If a bolus of crud makes it into the sequential filtering setup: filters essentially sort the crud into smaller sizes at a great cost (especially with the last Volvo filter now being fouled).  So we've cruised with the 2 micron setup for about 500 hours of motoring from panama to NZ last year and it seemed to work well.  no issues.  Filters seemed pretty good looking when i changed them  Usually around 100 hrs,  (I previously was quite derelict about it, prior to really understanding how important clean fuel was.)  I have noticed the manometer pressure reading on the setup would climb slightly over the 100 hrs, but never concerningly high.  
So scenario above A, with ostensibly clean fuel, worked for us, for this while.


So… Scenario B: Cruddy fuel shows up.  A slosh of crud makes it into the filter setup. (is this an isolated bit of crud, or does it advertize a yet much larger crub problem in the tank)  Currently it would saturate the 2 micron first filter and pressures climb, engine shuts down alerting us to a pressure scenario  and we change filter: but now we know we have cruddy fuel and need to polish it and the tank. (and why I’d like a separate fuel polishing system on board.)  Heres where my scenario breaks down: it depends on the amount of crud: pump it out and through baja filter into jerry cans? then run engine off jerry cans?  or...( I do have a bunch of 10mn  and 30mn sizes as well) as well put those on and let the filters clean the crud out: but if I increase the racor size then ill be clogging my 130$ volvo filters very fast: i carry about 4 of those, They're proprietary and hard to get in places.  It turns into a "S" show.  

So what's governed our cruising: sail smart, with wind as much as possible so we motor little.  Praise our relatively large 900 litre tank, and the freedom it adds to be discriminate about fuel choice. When others are fueling out of necessity, i find myself adding fuel not because i think we're low, but…  hey were sailors and should keep topped up stores.  

I'd be surprised if I’d completely thought this through, I'm sure there are some folks who really understand this at a much deeper level and I would love to hear from them and you.

And as you note Nick, it is the industry norm, and usually there is good reason for that!  To that end, if the Volvo-proprietary “C” filters were as inexpensive as the racors—I’d also stick to industry norm.  

I’d respectfully welcome any thinking and guidance.

Porter A54-154 with a  “H” model D3-110






On Feb 9, 2020, at 10:42 AM, ngtnewington Newington via Groups.Io <ngtnewington@...> wrote:

Hi Scott and Porter,

I choose to use a 10 or even 30 micron filter on the Racor followed by the Volvo secondary filter which is 2 micron I believe.

In my opinion by having the pre-filter at 2 micron you are in effect only having one filter. So in the event of major contamination the Racor will plug and the engine will suffer from fuel starvation. You may also damage the fuel pump, although on the 54 the fuel is gravity fed from the tank to the filters.

The same principle applies to the water maker. There is a course filter followed by the fine filter. You can not just go straight to the fine.

I know this is a controversial subject but that is my opinion….and the industry norm.

Nick

Amelia AML 54-019
Kilada Greece
On 9 Feb 2020, at 15:10, Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io <portermcroberts@...> wrote:

I understand. We have the same setup. The dual racor (A vs B) and A+B if one wishes.  We keep the 2 micron on both A and B and use only A or B, switching back and forth.  Filter C is of course the very pricey Volvo-specific filter/fuel water separator, which is what I want to spare by using the 2 micron. I watch the pressure gauge on the racors a lot.  That’s why we change frequently, to keep pressures low.  We have no pre-pre filters.  

I remember a thread on this about a year ago, the 2 micron pre-filter argument.  That’s when we switched.  Its hard to be scientific when we have limited data re what works “best.”

Great comments on why to keep the tank full during storage.

Porter A54-152

On Feb 9, 2020, at 10:02 AM, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

Porter,

I have the two racor filter setup. I consider this the primary filter / pre-filter.

Options:

1) FilterA only
2) FilterB only
3) FilterA and FilterB in parallel

Do you run the 2 micron filters here?

On my D3-110C there's a Volvo spin-on filter (2 micron) on the engine itself. We'll call that FilterC

Did you install a pre-filter before the Racors??
-- 
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com





Porter McRoberts
 

Paul. The guy here in Fort Lauderdale was mobile. He came to the boat. And it was something like 60$us. Worth every penny!  
Porter A54-152. 

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 
Www.fouribis.com

On Feb 9, 2020, at 12:00 PM, Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...> wrote:



Porter,

 

That seems like a good idea to me. We’re in Grenada – I will make some enquiries. If not here then maybe I will just refill the tank for now and wait until I find a place that has this facility and hope they can deal with an almost full tank.

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io
Sent: 09 February 2020 12:14
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Paranoia about the D3-110 Volvo Penta - diesel bug

 

Paul  Where are you?  

We used a professional fuel polisher person who came to the baot and with a pump and a bunch of filters.  He washed the tank with the fuel and filtered all the fuel and put back in the tank.  Tank and fuel was spotless afterwards.  It's a service available in many places.  That may be the way to go.

 

Porter A54-152



On Feb 9, 2020, at 11:00 AM, Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...> wrote:

 

Hi all,

 

My dip stick tells me I have a fairly thick coat of sludge at the bottom of the tank. I have just done a short but fairly rough passage, motor sailing, with 170 litres in the tank, and did not have any fuel problem. I have been aiming to get it as low as I can before figuring out how to clean the tank. Presumably I should suck out the remaining fuel – about 150 litres now – then use some combined mechanical/chemical means of cleaning the bottom. Not really sure how to go about that so any advice would be well appreciated.

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dan Carlson
Sent: 09 February 2020 11:00
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Paranoia about the D3-110 Volvo Penta - diesel bug

 

Hi Scott, I really can't say what I do is right, but here are a few things that seem to work for me so far. 

1) I try to use more than half the tank before refueling to replace the old with fresh. That is dependent on having it available when you need it, but we are in the Caribbean. 2) we have avoided biodiesel. 3) I use StarTron treatment as that has been what was available when I have needed to replenish. 4) I leave the tank full during the off season to reduce condensation  from air that enters thru the vent during the daily temperature cycles. 5) I have inspected my tank twice in 4 years when there was less than 200 liters in the tank (I could not see the bottom of the tank when there was more than 200 liters). The walls and floor we're shiny, but both times there were several small 50cm2 patches of slime on the floor. I attached a 2 meter length of small fuel hose to my fuel dipstick with a couple zip-ties and then stuck the end of the hose into the slime spot and sucked it up with a 5 liter vacuum fluid (oil)extractor.  6) I also shine a light thru the racor bowls regularly to monitor if any sludge is getting into them.

 

The risk of running the fuel tank low is that rough seas will break loose and break up any accumulated sludge.  

 

Best regards,  Daniel Carlson on sm #387, sv BeBe

 

On Sun, Feb 9, 2020, 9:28 AM Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@... wrote:

My paranoia about my Volvo D3-110 (rev c) has been kicked back into high gear. I think this applies to anyone with a diesel engine but particularly with the hyper sensitive D3-110.

I know a few A54 owners with failed D3-110 due to water ingress. We've discussed that on another thread. I'll leave that discussion there.

Recently I met a HR46 owner who had to lag behind the World ARC ($$$$!) because of diesel bug issues on his D3-110C. Another HR48 owner had the same issue and in both cases, the engine died and wouldn't start back up. His tank was disgusting, apparently. I've opened my inspection hatches and my tank is nearly pristine. But I am not going to rest on my laurels. 

What do you guys do to keep your fuel system clean? Here's my procedure and I hope I can improve on it with your help:

1) Diesel only from places that get high turnover. We aim for duty-free, so they're usually in high demand.
2) Outside of the US and EU, we use the Baja filter. Damn slow at only around 8liters per minute, but you gotta do what you gotta do... That said, I know of a few owners in the EU who have had diesel bug - seems more prevalent with biodiesel.

One idea to reduce filling time (900/8 = nearly two hours!!) is to use the Baja Filter to fill up our spare 20liter jerry can and then inspect the Baja filter. If all is good, just fill up the boat without the filter.

3) I use BioBor JF. I don't know if it's the best, but I found a bottle in the US that was enough to treat 10,000 liters, so that was my decision making criteria.
4) I have 10 micron Racor filters in the water separator filters. I carry 15 filters aboard.  Two micron in the Volvo, per spec.
5) Pray.

What do you all do to ensure you aren't stricken by the bug?


-- 
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


-- 
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

 


--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98


ngtnewington Newington
 

On 9 Feb 2020, at 16:49, Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io <portermcroberts@...> wrote:
I agree Nick— You're right, certainly about the industry norm.  And I’m sure there are many theories on this: and mine may be incorrect.  But the way I think of it: Crud exists in a myriad of sizes.  Crud forms… then  gets into the filter system and clogs.  If i have a series of sequentially smaller sized filters, i simply clog them all. and then replace them all.  If a bolus of crud makes it into the sequential filtering setup: filters essentially sort the crud into smaller sizes at a great cost (especially with the last Volvo filter now being fouled).  So we've cruised with the 2 micron setup for about 500 hours of motoring from panama to NZ last year and it seemed to work well.  no issues.  Filters seemed pretty good looking when i changed them  Usually around 100 hrs,  (I previously was quite derelict about it, prior to really understanding how important clean fuel was.)  I have noticed the manometer pressure reading on the setup would climb slightly over the 100 hrs, but never concerningly high.  
So scenario above A, with ostensibly clean fuel, worked for us, for this while.


So… Scenario B: Cruddy fuel shows up.  A slosh of crud makes it into the filter setup. (is this an isolated bit of crud, or does it advertize a yet much larger crub problem in the tank)  Currently it would saturate the 2 micron first filter and pressures climb, engine shuts down alerting us to a pressure scenario  and we change filter: but now we know we have cruddy fuel and need to polish it and the tank. (and why I’d like a separate fuel polishing system on board.)  Heres where my scenario breaks down: it depends on the amount of crud: pump it out and through baja filter into jerry cans? then run engine off jerry cans?  or...( I do have a bunch of 10mn  and 30mn sizes as well) as well put those on and let the filters clean the crud out: but if I increase the racor size then ill be clogging my 130$ volvo filters very fast: i carry about 4 of those, They're proprietary and hard to get in places.  It turns into a "S" show.  

So what's governed our cruising: sail smart, with wind as much as possible so we motor little.  Praise our relatively large 900 litre tank, and the freedom it adds to be discriminate about fuel choice. When others are fueling out of necessity, i find myself adding fuel not because i think we're low, but…  hey were sailors and should keep topped up stores.  

I'd be surprised if I’d completely thought this through, I'm sure there are some folks who really understand this at a much deeper level and I would love to hear from them and you.

And as you note Nick, it is the industry norm, and usually there is good reason for that!  To that end, if the Volvo-proprietary “C” filters were as inexpensive as the racors—I’d also stick to industry norm.  

I’d respectfully welcome any thinking and guidance.

Porter A54-154 with a  “H” model D3-110






On Feb 9, 2020, at 10:42 AM, ngtnewington Newington via Groups.Io <ngtnewington@...> wrote:

Hi Scott and Porter,

I choose to use a 10 or even 30 micron filter on the Racor followed by the Volvo secondary filter which is 2 micron I believe.

In my opinion by having the pre-filter at 2 micron you are in effect only having one filter. So in the event of major contamination the Racor will plug and the engine will suffer from fuel starvation. You may also damage the fuel pump, although on the 54 the fuel is gravity fed from the tank to the filters.

The same principle applies to the water maker. There is a course filter followed by the fine filter. You can not just go straight to the fine.

I know this is a controversial subject but that is my opinion….and the industry norm.

Nick

Amelia AML 54-019
Kilada Greece
On 9 Feb 2020, at 15:10, Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io <portermcroberts@...> wrote:

I understand. We have the same setup. The dual racor (A vs B) and A+B if one wishes.  We keep the 2 micron on both A and B and use only A or B, switching back and forth.  Filter C is of course the very pricey Volvo-specific filter/fuel water separator, which is what I want to spare by using the 2 micron. I watch the pressure gauge on the racors a lot.  That’s why we change frequently, to keep pressures low.  We have no pre-pre filters.  

I remember a thread on this about a year ago, the 2 micron pre-filter argument.  That’s when we switched.  Its hard to be scientific when we have limited data re what works “best.”

Great comments on why to keep the tank full during storage.

Porter A54-152

On Feb 9, 2020, at 10:02 AM, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

Porter,

I have the two racor filter setup. I consider this the primary filter / pre-filter.

Options:

1) FilterA only
2) FilterB only
3) FilterA and FilterB in parallel

Do you run the 2 micron filters here?

On my D3-110C there's a Volvo spin-on filter (2 micron) on the engine itself. We'll call that FilterC

Did you install a pre-filter before the Racors??
-- 
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com




Matt Salatino
 

A desiccant/dryer would be a great idea. Finding one that is maintenance free, and passive, may be a problem.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Feb 9, 2020, at 12:23 PM, James Alton via Groups.Io <lokiyawl2@...> wrote:

Some great discussion here.  One item that I did not see discussed that could be  helpful especially in humid climates is adding a dessicant dryer to the vent line.  Regular replacement and lubrication of the O ring seal at the fill cap is important as well.  Best of luck.

James
SV Sueno
Maramu #220

On Feb 9, 2020 11:49 AM, "Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io" <portermcroberts@...> wrote:
I agree Nick— You're right, certainly about the industry norm.  And I’m sure there are many theories on this: and mine may be incorrect.  But the way I think of it: Crud exists in a myriad of sizes.  Crud forms… then  gets into the filter system and clogs.  If i have a series of sequentially smaller sized filters, i simply clog them all. and then replace them all.  If a bolus of crud makes it into the sequential filtering setup: filters essentially sort the crud into smaller sizes at a great cost (especially with the last Volvo filter now being fouled).  So we've cruised with the 2 micron setup for about 500 hours of motoring from panama to NZ last year and it seemed to work well.  no issues.  Filters seemed pretty good looking when i changed them  Usually around 100 hrs,  (I previously was quite derelict about it, prior to really understanding how important clean fuel was.)  I have noticed the manometer pressure reading on the setup would climb slightly over the 100 hrs, but never concerningly high.  
So scenario above A, with ostensibly clean fuel, worked for us, for this while.


So… Scenario B: Cruddy fuel shows up.  A slosh of crud makes it into the filter setup. (is this an isolated bit of crud, or does it advertize a yet much larger crub problem in the tank)  Currently it would saturate the 2 micron first filter and pressures climb, engine shuts down alerting us to a pressure scenario  and we change filter: but now we know we have cruddy fuel and need to polish it and the tank. (and why I’d like a separate fuel polishing system on board.)  Heres where my scenario breaks down: it depends on the amount of crud: pump it out and through baja filter into jerry cans? then run engine off jerry cans?  or...( I do have a bunch of 10mn  and 30mn sizes as well) as well put those on and let the filters clean the crud out: but if I increase the racor size then ill be clogging my 130$ volvo filters very fast: i carry about 4 of those, They're proprietary and hard to get in places.  It turns into a "S" show.  

So what's governed our cruising: sail smart, with wind as much as possible so we motor little.  Praise our relatively large 900 litre tank, and the freedom it adds to be discriminate about fuel choice. When others are fueling out of necessity, i find myself adding fuel not because i think we're low, but…  hey were sailors and should keep topped up stores.  

I'd be surprised if I’d completely thought this through, I'm sure there are some folks who really understand this at a much deeper level and I would love to hear from them and you.

And as you note Nick, it is the industry norm, and usually there is good reason for that!  To that end, if the Volvo-proprietary “C” filters were as inexpensive as the racors—I’d also stick to industry norm.  

I’d respectfully welcome any thinking and guidance.

Porter A54-154 with a  “H” model D3-110






On Feb 9, 2020, at 10:42 AM, ngtnewington Newington via Groups.Io <ngtnewington@...> wrote:

Hi Scott and Porter,

I choose to use a 10 or even 30 micron filter on the Racor followed by the Volvo secondary filter which is 2 micron I believe.

In my opinion by having the pre-filter at 2 micron you are in effect only having one filter. So in the event of major contamination the Racor will plug and the engine will suffer from fuel starvation. You may also damage the fuel pump, although on the 54 the fuel is gravity fed from the tank to the filters.

The same principle applies to the water maker. There is a course filter followed by the fine filter. You can not just go straight to the fine.

I know this is a controversial subject but that is my opinion….and the industry norm.

Nick

Amelia AML 54-019
Kilada Greece
On 9 Feb 2020, at 15:10, Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io <portermcroberts@...> wrote:

I understand. We have the same setup. The dual racor (A vs B) and A+B if one wishes.  We keep the 2 micron on both A and B and use only A or B, switching back and forth.  Filter C is of course the very pricey Volvo-specific filter/fuel water separator, which is what I want to spare by using the 2 micron. I watch the pressure gauge on the racors a lot.  That’s why we change frequently, to keep pressures low.  We have no pre-pre filters.  

I remember a thread on this about a year ago, the 2 micron pre-filter argument.  That’s when we switched.  Its hard to be scientific when we have limited data re what works “best.”

Great comments on why to keep the tank full during storage.

Porter A54-152

On Feb 9, 2020, at 10:02 AM, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

Porter,

I have the two racor filter setup. I consider this the primary filter / pre-filter.

Options:

1) FilterA only
2) FilterB only
3) FilterA and FilterB in parallel

Do you run the 2 micron filters here?

On my D3-110C there's a Volvo spin-on filter (2 micron) on the engine itself. We'll call that FilterC

Did you install a pre-filter before the Racors??
-- 
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com





James Alton
 

Matt,

  I agree.    The desiccant cartridges would need to be replaced from time to time  Most of the ones I have considered change colour indicating the need while others can be heated to drive off the moisture and returned to service.  I have been looking at some commercial solutions so the cost is fairly reasonable but more research is needed to determine the effectiveness and life expectancy in a marine environment.   If anyone has found a good workable solution for installed a desiccant in the vent line please share.

Best,

James
  

On Feb 9, 2020, at 3:10 PM, Matt Salatino via Groups.Io <helmsmatt@...> wrote:

A desiccant/dryer would be a great idea. Finding one that is maintenance free, and passive, may be a problem.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Feb 9, 2020, at 12:23 PM, James Alton via Groups.Io <lokiyawl2@...> wrote:

Some great discussion here.  One item that I did not see discussed that could be  helpful especially in humid climates is adding a dessicant dryer to the vent line.  Regular replacement and lubrication of the O ring seal at the fill cap is important as well.  Best of luck.

James
SV Sueno
Maramu #220

On Feb 9, 2020 11:49 AM, "Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io" <portermcroberts@...> wrote:
I agree Nick— You're right, certainly about the industry norm.  And I’m sure there are many theories on this: and mine may be incorrect.  But the way I think of it: Crud exists in a myriad of sizes.  Crud forms… then  gets into the filter system and clogs.  If i have a series of sequentially smaller sized filters, i simply clog them all. and then replace them all.  If a bolus of crud makes it into the sequential filtering setup: filters essentially sort the crud into smaller sizes at a great cost (especially with the last Volvo filter now being fouled).  So we've cruised with the 2 micron setup for about 500 hours of motoring from panama to NZ last year and it seemed to work well.  no issues.  Filters seemed pretty good looking when i changed them  Usually around 100 hrs,  (I previously was quite derelict about it, prior to really understanding how important clean fuel was.)  I have noticed the manometer pressure reading on the setup would climb slightly over the 100 hrs, but never concerningly high.  
So scenario above A, with ostensibly clean fuel, worked for us, for this while.


So… Scenario B: Cruddy fuel shows up.  A slosh of crud makes it into the filter setup. (is this an isolated bit of crud, or does it advertize a yet much larger crub problem in the tank)  Currently it would saturate the 2 micron first filter and pressures climb, engine shuts down alerting us to a pressure scenario  and we change filter: but now we know we have cruddy fuel and need to polish it and the tank. (and why I’d like a separate fuel polishing system on board.)  Heres where my scenario breaks down: it depends on the amount of crud: pump it out and through baja filter into jerry cans? then run engine off jerry cans?  or...( I do have a bunch of 10mn  and 30mn sizes as well) as well put those on and let the filters clean the crud out: but if I increase the racor size then ill be clogging my 130$ volvo filters very fast: i carry about 4 of those, They're proprietary and hard to get in places.  It turns into a "S" show.  

So what's governed our cruising: sail smart, with wind as much as possible so we motor little.  Praise our relatively large 900 litre tank, and the freedom it adds to be discriminate about fuel choice. When others are fueling out of necessity, i find myself adding fuel not because i think we're low, but…  hey were sailors and should keep topped up stores.  

I'd be surprised if I’d completely thought this through, I'm sure there are some folks who really understand this at a much deeper level and I would love to hear from them and you.

And as you note Nick, it is the industry norm, and usually there is good reason for that!  To that end, if the Volvo-proprietary “C” filters were as inexpensive as the racors—I’d also stick to industry norm.  

I’d respectfully welcome any thinking and guidance.

Porter A54-154 with a  “H” model D3-110






On Feb 9, 2020, at 10:42 AM, ngtnewington Newington via Groups.Io <ngtnewington@...> wrote:

Hi Scott and Porter,

I choose to use a 10 or even 30 micron filter on the Racor followed by the Volvo secondary filter which is 2 micron I believe.

In my opinion by having the pre-filter at 2 micron you are in effect only having one filter. So in the event of major contamination the Racor will plug and the engine will suffer from fuel starvation. You may also damage the fuel pump, although on the 54 the fuel is gravity fed from the tank to the filters.

The same principle applies to the water maker. There is a course filter followed by the fine filter. You can not just go straight to the fine.

I know this is a controversial subject but that is my opinion….and the industry norm.

Nick

Amelia AML 54-019
Kilada Greece
On 9 Feb 2020, at 15:10, Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io <portermcroberts@...> wrote:

I understand. We have the same setup. The dual racor (A vs B) and A+B if one wishes.  We keep the 2 micron on both A and B and use only A or B, switching back and forth.  Filter C is of course the very pricey Volvo-specific filter/fuel water separator, which is what I want to spare by using the 2 micron. I watch the pressure gauge on the racors a lot.  That’s why we change frequently, to keep pressures low.  We have no pre-pre filters.  

I remember a thread on this about a year ago, the 2 micron pre-filter argument.  That’s when we switched.  Its hard to be scientific when we have limited data re what works “best.”

Great comments on why to keep the tank full during storage.

Porter A54-152

On Feb 9, 2020, at 10:02 AM, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

Porter,

I have the two racor filter setup. I consider this the primary filter / pre-filter.

Options:

1) FilterA only
2) FilterB only
3) FilterA and FilterB in parallel

Do you run the 2 micron filters here?

On my D3-110C there's a Volvo spin-on filter (2 micron) on the engine itself. We'll call that FilterC

Did you install a pre-filter before the Racors??
-- 
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com






Matt Salatino
 

All good points, James.
Working with dessicant dryers for air compressors, on a humid day, the crystals were pink (from clear) in a few hours. 
I fear that a proper dryer that one could set and forget for 6 months, if it exists, would be active, powered, and be another,complex system to maintain and monitor. Maybe a pressurized system like the ones on automobiles would work, that don’t allow air, readily into the system? I’ve not studied how they work, so I plead ignorance....😊

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Feb 9, 2020, at 5:06 PM, James Alton via Groups.Io <lokiyawl2@...> wrote:

Matt,

  I agree.    The desiccant cartridges would need to be replaced from time to time  Most of the ones I have considered change colour indicating the need while others can be heated to drive off the moisture and returned to service.  I have been looking at some commercial solutions so the cost is fairly reasonable but more research is needed to determine the effectiveness and life expectancy in a marine environment.   If anyone has found a good workable solution for installed a desiccant in the vent line please share.

Best,

James
  
On Feb 9, 2020, at 3:10 PM, Matt Salatino via Groups.Io <helmsmatt@...> wrote:

A desiccant/dryer would be a great idea. Finding one that is maintenance free, and passive, may be a problem.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Feb 9, 2020, at 12:23 PM, James Alton via Groups.Io <lokiyawl2@...> wrote:

Some great discussion here.  One item that I did not see discussed that could be  helpful especially in humid climates is adding a dessicant dryer to the vent line.  Regular replacement and lubrication of the O ring seal at the fill cap is important as well.  Best of luck.

James
SV Sueno
Maramu #220

On Feb 9, 2020 11:49 AM, "Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io" <portermcroberts@...> wrote:
I agree Nick— You're right, certainly about the industry norm.  And I’m sure there are many theories on this: and mine may be incorrect.  But the way I think of it: Crud exists in a myriad of sizes.  Crud forms… then  gets into the filter system and clogs.  If i have a series of sequentially smaller sized filters, i simply clog them all. and then replace them all.  If a bolus of crud makes it into the sequential filtering setup: filters essentially sort the crud into smaller sizes at a great cost (especially with the last Volvo filter now being fouled).  So we've cruised with the 2 micron setup for about 500 hours of motoring from panama to NZ last year and it seemed to work well.  no issues.  Filters seemed pretty good looking when i changed them  Usually around 100 hrs,  (I previously was quite derelict about it, prior to really understanding how important clean fuel was.)  I have noticed the manometer pressure reading on the setup would climb slightly over the 100 hrs, but never concerningly high.  
So scenario above A, with ostensibly clean fuel, worked for us, for this while.


So… Scenario B: Cruddy fuel shows up.  A slosh of crud makes it into the filter setup. (is this an isolated bit of crud, or does it advertize a yet much larger crub problem in the tank)  Currently it would saturate the 2 micron first filter and pressures climb, engine shuts down alerting us to a pressure scenario  and we change filter: but now we know we have cruddy fuel and need to polish it and the tank. (and why I’d like a separate fuel polishing system on board.)  Heres where my scenario breaks down: it depends on the amount of crud: pump it out and through baja filter into jerry cans? then run engine off jerry cans?  or...( I do have a bunch of 10mn  and 30mn sizes as well) as well put those on and let the filters clean the crud out: but if I increase the racor size then ill be clogging my 130$ volvo filters very fast: i carry about 4 of those, They're proprietary and hard to get in places.  It turns into a "S" show.  

So what's governed our cruising: sail smart, with wind as much as possible so we motor little.  Praise our relatively large 900 litre tank, and the freedom it adds to be discriminate about fuel choice. When others are fueling out of necessity, i find myself adding fuel not because i think we're low, but…  hey were sailors and should keep topped up stores.  

I'd be surprised if I’d completely thought this through, I'm sure there are some folks who really understand this at a much deeper level and I would love to hear from them and you.

And as you note Nick, it is the industry norm, and usually there is good reason for that!  To that end, if the Volvo-proprietary “C” filters were as inexpensive as the racors—I’d also stick to industry norm.  

I’d respectfully welcome any thinking and guidance.

Porter A54-154 with a  “H” model D3-110






On Feb 9, 2020, at 10:42 AM, ngtnewington Newington via Groups.Io <ngtnewington@...> wrote:

Hi Scott and Porter,

I choose to use a 10 or even 30 micron filter on the Racor followed by the Volvo secondary filter which is 2 micron I believe.

In my opinion by having the pre-filter at 2 micron you are in effect only having one filter. So in the event of major contamination the Racor will plug and the engine will suffer from fuel starvation. You may also damage the fuel pump, although on the 54 the fuel is gravity fed from the tank to the filters.

The same principle applies to the water maker. There is a course filter followed by the fine filter. You can not just go straight to the fine.

I know this is a controversial subject but that is my opinion….and the industry norm.

Nick

Amelia AML 54-019
Kilada Greece
On 9 Feb 2020, at 15:10, Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io <portermcroberts@...> wrote:

I understand. We have the same setup. The dual racor (A vs B) and A+B if one wishes.  We keep the 2 micron on both A and B and use only A or B, switching back and forth.  Filter C is of course the very pricey Volvo-specific filter/fuel water separator, which is what I want to spare by using the 2 micron. I watch the pressure gauge on the racors a lot.  That’s why we change frequently, to keep pressures low.  We have no pre-pre filters.  

I remember a thread on this about a year ago, the 2 micron pre-filter argument.  That’s when we switched.  Its hard to be scientific when we have limited data re what works “best.”

Great comments on why to keep the tank full during storage.

Porter A54-152

On Feb 9, 2020, at 10:02 AM, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

Porter,

I have the two racor filter setup. I consider this the primary filter / pre-filter.

Options:

1) FilterA only
2) FilterB only
3) FilterA and FilterB in parallel

Do you run the 2 micron filters here?

On my D3-110C there's a Volvo spin-on filter (2 micron) on the engine itself. We'll call that FilterC

Did you install a pre-filter before the Racors??
-- 
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com