Hardtop for Amel 54


Scott SV Tengah
 

Stefan,

Those panels are what I was looking at, but they are significantly more expensive than the 110w ones! Around 3x the cost, if I remember right.

Anyways, I am no electrical engineer but I thought that the series connection across all 4 of your panels would definitely produce more output in perfect conditions due to the higher voltage. But theoretically parallel (or serial-parallel in the case of your 12v panels) should be more shade tolerant and have a smaller reduction in power output when one panel is shaded. Only way to test it is to compare for a longer period than a few hours - say a month :) Anyways, I'm very jealous of your hardtop and the panels on top of it.

We thought we had enough power but we keep finding more ways to use the power. :) We have used the scuba compressor a lot over the last few months so it'd be great if we could add more solar. If I do that, I'm sure I'll find another use for the amps-hours!

On Mon, Feb 8, 2021 at 4:51 PM Stefan Schaufert <mail@...> wrote:
Bill,

the panels are 4 x SUNPOWER SPR-E-FLEX-170, 12V each. 
I am happy with them.


Scott,

I tried both possibilities before I made the final wiring.  Amazingly (but maybe I should have waited significantly longer than 4 hours) the series connection (all panels) brought a significantly higher yield (amperes for charging). The serial-parallel connection has to be better theoretically, but was not.
I do not know why this is not like usual.

At least you do not need any more panels in this life ;-) on Tengah.

Best regards
Stefan
A54 # 119 Lady Charlyette, currently Bahamas


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Stefan Schaufert
 

Bill,

the panels are 4 x SUNPOWER SPR-E-FLEX-170, 12V each. 
I am happy with them.


Scott,

I tried both possibilities before I made the final wiring.  Amazingly (but maybe I should have waited significantly longer than 4 hours) the series connection (all panels) brought a significantly higher yield (amperes for charging). The serial-parallel connection has to be better theoretically, but was not.
I do not know why this is not like usual.

At least you do not need any more panels in this life ;-) on Tengah.

Best regards
Stefan
A54 # 119 Lady Charlyette, currently Bahamas


 

Stephan,

I believe that there are many qualities of flexible panels with a wide range of current production per measure of area. Maybe I missed it, but did you specify which flexible panels you have?

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Mon, Feb 8, 2021 at 12:07 AM Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
Stefan,

This is exactly the data I was looking for - thank you.

So my math shows:

- Davit mounted (rigid?) panels produce about 33% more than surface mounted flexible panels. Makes sense since the hardtop mounted ones get hotter and/or are shaded more often.
- Comparing just davit mounted panels to davit mounted panels, lithium seems to result in the MPPT being able to put out almost twice the monthly cumulative power per watt of installed solar. That's pretty consistent with theory and what I saw when I compared my Victron output to another A54 who has a similar amount of installed solar in a similar location, with our only differences being lithium vs. agm.

I am guessing that you're wiring the hardtop mounted panels in serial. If you're bored and have nothing else to fix (hehe), I'd be curious what would happen to monthly solar output if you wired the flexible panels in parallel, which is theoretically more shade tolerant. That could make a big difference since your mizzen mast / main boom is probably shading one side or the other almost all day. Of course, you probably have to do a serial-parallel connection since I recall the flexible panels are usually 12v?


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Scott SV Tengah
 

Stefan,

This is exactly the data I was looking for - thank you.

So my math shows:

- Davit mounted (rigid?) panels produce about 33% more than surface mounted flexible panels. Makes sense since the hardtop mounted ones get hotter and/or are shaded more often.
- Comparing just davit mounted panels to davit mounted panels, lithium seems to result in the MPPT being able to put out almost twice the monthly cumulative power per watt of installed solar. That's pretty consistent with theory and what I saw when I compared my Victron output to another A54 who has a similar amount of installed solar in a similar location, with our only differences being lithium vs. agm.

I am guessing that you're wiring the hardtop mounted panels in serial. If you're bored and have nothing else to fix (hehe), I'd be curious what would happen to monthly solar output if you wired the flexible panels in parallel, which is theoretically more shade tolerant. That could make a big difference since your mizzen mast / main boom is probably shading one side or the other almost all day. Of course, you probably have to do a serial-parallel connection since I recall the flexible panels are usually 12v?


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Stefan Schaufert
 

Hi Scott,

I'm with you. The peak is not important, only interesting. I can only show you the average of the last 30 days.
I think it's appr. 40-45 kWh one month.
The panels (600W) over the Davids perform better (about 60 kWh), but the cockpit panels are a very good addition to keep the generator off for days.
Batteries are „only“ AGM - thus for charging is a lot potential left.

Stefan
A54 # 119 Lady Charlyette, currently Bahamas


Scott SV Tengah
 

Thanks Stefan. Do you have the ability to record the total solar amp-hours or kilowatt-hours per day? Your peak output is encouraging but I am wondering how much power it produces in total through the course of a day, which would take into account the shading. Even better would be an average over a month or so.


On Sun, Feb 7, 2021 at 3:14 PM Stefan Schaufert <mail@...> wrote:
Hello Scott,
 
thanks for the flowers.
 
It took us (my poor wife and me) about 2.5 weeks to finish the surfaces of both roof sections. Now I highly recommend giving this to a professional handyman. It becomes much more economical and the result is more perfect.
For the installation of the plexiglass parts, seals, solar etc. we needed about 1 week.
All full time, so don't ask about our own labor costs ;-).
 
All external services / work / materials cost around 6 500 EUR - provided you already have the winter enclosure.
 
"Packing and selling" (I assume you mean "Make it in a serie") does not seem to be an option, or at least very difficult, as the cockpit dimensions of the respective boat have to be taken into account (e.g. for the position of the plywood inserts for connection on the bimini frame).
 
Now to your questions ;-):
1) Depending on the shadows of the masts and main boom (shrouds don't seem to be a problem) I've seen (without shading) up to 700W in Martinique in May 2020 and now up to 580W in the Bahamas. With shading, of course, significantly less.
2) No mold on the hardtop, but (of course some) dirt under the panels - despite spacers (to get air under the flexible panels and to flush rainwater).

Stefan
A54 # 119 Lady Charlyette, currently Bahamas


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Stefan Schaufert
 

Hello Scott,
 
thanks for the flowers.
 
It took us (my poor wife and me) about 2.5 weeks to finish the surfaces of both roof sections. Now I highly recommend giving this to a professional handyman. It becomes much more economical and the result is more perfect.
For the installation of the plexiglass parts, seals, solar etc. we needed about 1 week.
All full time, so don't ask about our own labor costs ;-).
 
All external services / work / materials cost around 6 500 EUR - provided you already have the winter enclosure.
 
"Packing and selling" (I assume you mean "Make it in a serie") does not seem to be an option, or at least very difficult, as the cockpit dimensions of the respective boat have to be taken into account (e.g. for the position of the plywood inserts for connection on the bimini frame).
 
Now to your questions ;-):
1) Depending on the shadows of the masts and main boom (shrouds don't seem to be a problem) I've seen (without shading) up to 700W in Martinique in May 2020 and now up to 580W in the Bahamas. With shading, of course, significantly less.
2) No mold on the hardtop, but (of course some) dirt under the panels - despite spacers (to get air under the flexible panels and to flush rainwater).

Stefan
A54 # 119 Lady Charlyette, currently Bahamas


Alain Durante
 

Scott,

 

I made a cockpit cover 2 years ago stainless + plexiglass + canvas with solar panels on top. I have 1.85 under the roof.

 

Very convenient with lights on top and underneath. Can sail in winter and getting the heat from the inside.

 

Cordialement,

 

Alain

 

2006 A54 #21

 

De : main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> De la part de Scott SV Tengah via groups.io
Envoyé : dimanche 7 février 2021 09:20
À : main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Objet : Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Hardtop for Amel 54

 

Stefan,

That design is the best I've seen. How long did it take you to finish it? And total cost? Have you ever considered packaging and selling it? I'm sure more than one 54 owner would be keen to buy it.

A few questions:

1) Any idea how many amp hours or kWh per day your 680w of Sunpower panels produce?
2) Do you get any mold on the top of the hardtop? Just thinking if the water doesn't drain perfectly, it could result in some mold buildup. But I am sure that's solvable pretty easily if it does happen.
--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Scott SV Tengah
 

Stefan,

That design is the best I've seen. How long did it take you to finish it? And total cost? Have you ever considered packaging and selling it? I'm sure more than one 54 owner would be keen to buy it.

A few questions:

1) Any idea how many amp hours or kWh per day your 680w of Sunpower panels produce?
2) Do you get any mold on the top of the hardtop? Just thinking if the water doesn't drain perfectly, it could result in some mold buildup. But I am sure that's solvable pretty easily if it does happen.
--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Mohammad Shirloo
 

Hi Ann-Sofie;

 

That’s great, thank you.

 

Happy Sailing;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

AMEL 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Annsofie & Jonas Svanberg via groups.io
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2021 12:38 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Hardtop for Amel 54

 

Hi Mohammed

I have got some requests for more pictures. I will put a .pdf together showing it. Just give me a day or two.

 

The original roof is made by a friend if us and is a sandwich construction with divinycell inbetween the GRP.

Regards

Ann-Sofie

S/Y Lady Annila

SM 232, 1998

Present in Algarve, Portugal 

 

 

Skickat från min iPhone



25/01/2021 kl. 19:17 skrev Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...>:



Hello Halsinger;

 

Nice looking hard top. Do you have more pictures and/or videos that show more detail?

 

Where did you have this top fabricated?

 

Happy Sailing;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

AMEL 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Annsofie & Jonas Svanberg via groups.io
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2021 10:51 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Hardtop for Amel 54

 

Here is our hard top on S/Y Lady Annila, SM 232.

 

It has been there since 2010 and during 2020 we hade it renovated. On top we have 2 solar panels 364 W each. (And an orher three on the arch)

 

<image001.jpg>

Hälsningar

Ann-Sofie 

S/Y Lady Annila

SM 232, 1998

 

 

Skickat från min iPhone




25/01/2021 kl. 17:36 skrev VICTOR MOLERO <victor.moleroxx@...>:



Congratulations! I love it!

Do you, or anyone, know if the solution is feasible for a Super Maramu 2000? Any idea about the cost?

It's a wonderful improvement, very well thought out.

Thanks for sharing.

Victor 

SM314 Alendoy


VICTOR MOLERO
 

Thank you Ann Sophie.
I will appreciate more pictures, if you have them available and willing to share.
Thanks.
Victor 
SM314 Alendoy


Ann-Sofie, S/Y Lady Annila
 

Hi Mohammed
I have got some requests for more pictures. I will put a .pdf together showing it. Just give me a day or two.

The original roof is made by a friend if us and is a sandwich construction with divinycell inbetween the GRP.

Regards
Ann-Sofie
S/Y Lady Annila
SM 232, 1998
Present in Algarve, Portugal 


Skickat från min iPhone

25/01/2021 kl. 19:17 skrev Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...>:



Hello Halsinger;

 

Nice looking hard top. Do you have more pictures and/or videos that show more detail?

 

Where did you have this top fabricated?

 

Happy Sailing;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

AMEL 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Annsofie & Jonas Svanberg via groups.io
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2021 10:51 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Hardtop for Amel 54

 

Here is our hard top on S/Y Lady Annila, SM 232.

 

It has been there since 2010 and during 2020 we hade it renovated. On top we have 2 solar panels 364 W each. (And an orher three on the arch)


<image001.jpg>

Hälsningar

Ann-Sofie 

S/Y Lady Annila

SM 232, 1998

 

 

Skickat från min iPhone



25/01/2021 kl. 17:36 skrev VICTOR MOLERO <victor.moleroxx@...>:



Congratulations! I love it!

Do you, or anyone, know if the solution is feasible for a Super Maramu 2000? Any idea about the cost?

It's a wonderful improvement, very well thought out.

Thanks for sharing.

Victor 

SM314 Alendoy


Mohammad Shirloo
 

Hello Halsinger;

 

Nice looking hard top. Do you have more pictures and/or videos that show more detail?

 

Where did you have this top fabricated?

 

Happy Sailing;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

AMEL 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Annsofie & Jonas Svanberg via groups.io
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2021 10:51 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Hardtop for Amel 54

 

Here is our hard top on S/Y Lady Annila, SM 232.

 

It has been there since 2010 and during 2020 we hade it renovated. On top we have 2 solar panels 364 W each. (And an orher three on the arch)


Hälsningar

Ann-Sofie 

S/Y Lady Annila

SM 232, 1998

 

 

Skickat från min iPhone



25/01/2021 kl. 17:36 skrev VICTOR MOLERO <victor.moleroxx@...>:



Congratulations! I love it!

Do you, or anyone, know if the solution is feasible for a Super Maramu 2000? Any idea about the cost?

It's a wonderful improvement, very well thought out.

Thanks for sharing.

Victor 

SM314 Alendoy


Ann-Sofie, S/Y Lady Annila
 

Here is our hard top on S/Y Lady Annila, SM 232.

It has been there since 2010 and during 2020 we hade it renovated. On top we have 2 solar panels 364 W each. (And an orher three on the arch)


Hälsningar
Ann-Sofie 
S/Y Lady Annila
SM 232, 1998


Skickat från min iPhone

25/01/2021 kl. 17:36 skrev VICTOR MOLERO <victor.moleroxx@...>:


Congratulations! I love it!
Do you, or anyone, know if the solution is feasible for a Super Maramu 2000? Any idea about the cost?
It's a wonderful improvement, very well thought out.
Thanks for sharing.
Victor 
SM314 Alendoy


VICTOR MOLERO
 

Congratulations! I love it!
Do you, or anyone, know if the solution is feasible for a Super Maramu 2000? Any idea about the cost?
It's a wonderful improvement, very well thought out.
Thanks for sharing.
Victor 
SM314 Alendoy


Justin Maguire
 

Super nice solution – well though out, well made.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Stefan Schaufert <mail@...>
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2021 6:16:42 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Hardtop for Amel 54
 
Here is another suggestion.

The two Vacuum-Epoxy-Lightweight-Parts where made in Le Marin by ALIZE COMPOSITES (Manu).
It is the same company made the not any longer existing mold for the hardtop.
All other (small) modifications/ materials came also from the yard in Le Marin.
The rest was a lot of manual work by ourselves.

The old bimini frame is still used.  A very functional and economical variant.  It carries 680W solar, collects rainwater, allows a very good all-round view, has an integrated grip edge and the sails can also be visually checked from the armchair.  My wife just uploaded a video about this at:
https://youtu.be/7GIHQd4l3FI

Best regards
Stefan
A54 #119 Lady Charlyette, currently Exumas


Stefan Schaufert
 

Here is another suggestion.

The two Vacuum-Epoxy-Lightweight-Parts where made in Le Marin by ALIZE COMPOSITES (Manu).
It is the same company made the not any longer existing mold for the hardtop.
All other (small) modifications/ materials came also from the yard in Le Marin.
The rest was a lot of manual work by ourselves.

The old bimini frame is still used.  A very functional and economical variant.  It carries 680W solar, collects rainwater, allows a very good all-round view, has an integrated grip edge and the sails can also be visually checked from the armchair.  My wife just uploaded a video about this at:
https://youtu.be/7GIHQd4l3FI

Best regards
Stefan
A54 #119 Lady Charlyette, currently Exumas


Barry Connor
 

Hi Mohammed,

Thank you for the info, Unfortunately I will not be going to the US for some time. My thoughts are that we are going to be here for some time. I really like the hardtop on Caduceus, I will look into this, will need a stainless steel welder, a fibre glass moulder and a canvas/sail maker. Could be a challenge here in Le Marin! By that I mean that getting work done is a challenge and slow, took 3 months to get 4 brackets made for my new lift up windscreens, The early 54's only had one hydraulic lift arm on each lift up screens at 300N, I am changing to two hydraulic lift arms per screen as per your 54 at 170N each.
If I was still in Greece I would be able to find these workers, Preveza has a young chap, very good at stainless work.

The hardtop on Ruedi and Sabina's Amel 54 might be insulated. Contact Ruedi and he will give you all the info. It looks very well made. 

Very Best

Barry and Penny
"SV Lady Penelope II"
Amel 54. #17
Sainte Anne anchorage Martinique

On Saturday, July 11, 2020, 5:13:42 PM EDT, Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...> wrote:


Hi Barry;

 

Caduceus’ hard top was made in Norfolk West Virginia.

 

What did you think of the Emek installation? Do you know if it was insulated and how it has performed so far?

 

Happy Sailing;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

AMEL 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Barry Connor via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2020 1:46 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Hardtop for Amel 54

 

Hi Scott,

 

Thank you for the photo.

I am going to see them on Wednesday when everything reopens here after this holiday weekend. I do hope that your price is not correct.

My current Bimini is an all cover, 5 bow frame with Sunbrella, like the hardtop made for Caduceus Amel 54. #56.

  

Mohammad: Thank you for the photos. Do you know where Caduceus hardtop was made? The Emek Marine link is the hardtop on Wasabi Amel54. I think #50? Ruedi and Sabina showed me over this with the complete coverings.

 

Very Best

 

Barry and Penny

"SV Lady Penelope II"

Amel 54. #17

Sainte Anne anchorage Martinique

 

 

On Saturday, July 11, 2020, 4:28:59 PM EDT, Courtney Gorman via groups.io <itsfun1@...> wrote:

 

 

I wonder if they would do a volume discount?

Bill is this an Amel School possibility?

Cheers 

Courtney 

svTrippin

54 #101

Brunswick 



On Jul 11, 2020, at 4:21 PM, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

This one was done by Manu at Alize Composites in Le Marin.

I think he said 25-30k euros.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

<P1070516.JPG>


Mohammad Shirloo
 

Hi Barry;

 

Caduceus’ hard top was made in Norfolk West Virginia.

 

What did you think of the Emek installation? Do you know if it was insulated and how it has performed so far?

 

Happy Sailing;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

AMEL 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Barry Connor via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2020 1:46 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Hardtop for Amel 54

 

Hi Scott,

 

Thank you for the photo.

I am going to see them on Wednesday when everything reopens here after this holiday weekend. I do hope that your price is not correct.

My current Bimini is an all cover, 5 bow frame with Sunbrella, like the hardtop made for Caduceus Amel 54. #56.

  

Mohammad: Thank you for the photos. Do you know where Caduceus hardtop was made? The Emek Marine link is the hardtop on Wasabi Amel54. I think #50? Ruedi and Sabina showed me over this with the complete coverings.

 

Very Best

 

Barry and Penny

"SV Lady Penelope II"

Amel 54. #17

Sainte Anne anchorage Martinique

 

 

On Saturday, July 11, 2020, 4:28:59 PM EDT, Courtney Gorman via groups.io <itsfun1@...> wrote:

 

 

I wonder if they would do a volume discount?

Bill is this an Amel School possibility?

Cheers 

Courtney 

svTrippin

54 #101

Brunswick 



On Jul 11, 2020, at 4:21 PM, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

This one was done by Manu at Alize Composites in Le Marin.

I think he said 25-30k euros.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

<P1070516.JPG>


Barry Connor
 

Hi Scott,

Thank you for the photo.
I am going to see them on Wednesday when everything reopens here after this holiday weekend. I do hope that your price is not correct.
My current Bimini is an all cover, 5 bow frame with Sunbrella, like the hardtop made for Caduceus Amel 54. #56.
  
Mohammad: Thank you for the photos. Do you know where Caduceus hardtop was made? The Emek Marine link is the hardtop on Wasabi Amel54. I think #50? Ruedi and Sabina showed me over this with the complete coverings.

Very Best

Barry and Penny
"SV Lady Penelope II"
Amel 54. #17
Sainte Anne anchorage Martinique


On Saturday, July 11, 2020, 4:28:59 PM EDT, Courtney Gorman via groups.io <itsfun1@...> wrote:


I wonder if they would do a volume discount?
Bill is this an Amel School possibility?
Cheers 
Courtney 
svTrippin
54 #101
Brunswick 


On Jul 11, 2020, at 4:21 PM, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

This one was done by Manu at Alize Composites in Le Marin.

I think he said 25-30k euros.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com
<P1070516.JPG>