Topics

Water hoses in engine room


Vic Fryzel
 

Thanks James & Craig. All great advice that I'm gonna use for this project.

For folks in San Diego, I found San Diego Marine Exchange who is a Scandvik "dealer." They sell the ABA clamps for what seems like a pretty reasonable price if you buy a 10-pack. I'm still sorting out which sizes I'll need. Scandvik sells a cruiser pack for a few hundred bucks that seems to have a variety, but not sure how useful that is.

Thanks!
- Vic


On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 12:12 PM Craig & Katherine Briggs via groups.io <sangaris=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Vic,
You note you've got a West Marine (WM) nearby and Kevin said he used Defenders. I just did a bunch of replacements - WM was $7.29 for the Scandvik ABA 316 SS SAE10. A local FL store (Boat Owners Warehouse) has it for 3.92 and Defender is $2.99. Buying many clamps makes Defender's shipping charge minor. Scandvik ABA is excellent. WM has Scandvik add a digit to the clamp number so they can call it a private brand and refuse to price match, saying it is not identical - it is.

Double clamping has been highly recommended for thru-hulls (with long barbs). Not important for fresh water, sea water on pump discharges and engine coolant as you likely won't sink if those go.

My project was the hot water tank.  To clean just remove all the hoses and electric feed, then drain and take it out of the engine room. Pull the heating element and plumbing fittings. Then rinse thoroughly, shaking it around and upside down to slosh out any sludge. If you've got rusty sludge, rinse and slosh some more with a bunch of phosphoric acid to passivate. Reassemble with fresh teflon tape on the pipe threads and maybe put in a new heating element - every few years is good for those - and do check the wiring for any electric corrosion.  Don't forget the clamps on the copper distribution pipes along the hull - mine were buried in sound insulation and rusting badly.

Mine is a 16 year old IsoTemp that had a tiny leak at the hot outlet that dripped down and corroded the thermostats. I had patched a side wall leak with JB Weld 15 years ago and that was still good (JB Weld rocks!) but I peeled that off anyway and redid both with a new JB Weld "Marine" version for $8. Replacement generic button thermostats = $3. Replacement heating element $12. Total repair $23 vs new IsoTemp at about $700.  I did put it on the "repair-again" list for 2035. 

Craig - SN68 Sangaris, Tropic Isle Harbor, FL


Craig Briggs
 

Hi Vic,
You note you've got a West Marine (WM) nearby and Kevin said he used Defenders. I just did a bunch of replacements - WM was $7.29 for the Scandvik ABA 316 SS SAE10. A local FL store (Boat Owners Warehouse) has it for 3.92 and Defender is $2.99. Buying many clamps makes Defender's shipping charge minor. Scandvik ABA is excellent. WM has Scandvik add a digit to the clamp number so they can call it a private brand and refuse to price match, saying it is not identical - it is.

Double clamping has been highly recommended for thru-hulls (with long barbs). Not important for fresh water, sea water on pump discharges and engine coolant as you likely won't sink if those go.

My project was the hot water tank.  To clean just remove all the hoses and electric feed, then drain and take it out of the engine room. Pull the heating element and plumbing fittings. Then rinse thoroughly, shaking it around and upside down to slosh out any sludge. If you've got rusty sludge, rinse and slosh some more with a bunch of phosphoric acid to passivate. Reassemble with fresh teflon tape on the pipe threads and maybe put in a new heating element - every few years is good for those - and do check the wiring for any electric corrosion.  Don't forget the clamps on the copper distribution pipes along the hull - mine were buried in sound insulation and rusting badly.

Mine is a 16 year old IsoTemp that had a tiny leak at the hot outlet that dripped down and corroded the thermostats. I had patched a side wall leak with JB Weld 15 years ago and that was still good (JB Weld rocks!) but I peeled that off anyway and redid both with a new JB Weld "Marine" version for $8. Replacement generic button thermostats = $3. Replacement heating element $12. Total repair $23 vs new IsoTemp at about $700.  I did put it on the "repair-again" list for 2035. 

Craig - SN68 Sangaris, Tropic Isle Harbor, FL


James Alton
 

Vic,
   You have some good questions and it will be interesting to read the input. I can tell that for myself I try to only use the Shields exhaust hose below waterline and always double clamp those connections with the best 316 grade stainless clamps I can find. Sometimes you will have hose Barb's that are too short for the double clamps, try to change those out with longer ones if you can.  The ABA brand hose clamp has been pretty good for me.  Look for a hose clamp with a band that has the teeth for the gear rolled into in rather than being cut through it as the latter are more prone to breakage in my experience. The exhaust hose is not cheap but it's well constructed and has been very reliable.  The hose also seems to resist damage from engine oil and can handle a lot more heat than a vinyl hose.  For a hose run that is subjected to any suction or has anything more than a very gentle bend, the hose needs to a reinforcement to prevent collapse. In the case of the exhaust hose this will be a wire spiral that will require some decent side cutters to get through.  If you pull a bit on the wire when cutting the sharp end of the wire will bury itself back into the hose.  Best of luck with your project.  
James
Maramu #220

On Aug 17, 2020 1:10 PM, Vic Fryzel <vic.fryzel@...> wrote:

Hi,

For the first time, I'm looking at replacing a lot of or ~all of the hoses/valves that deliver fresh or raw water in the engine room.

Some of mine have become extremely rusted or are a bit split. A lot of the hose clamps are rusted closed. And some of the valves are barely usable because of some corrosion or rust. I'm hoping folks might be able to help me with a few questions:

1. Is there a type or class of hose I need to use? Any other hose requirements? Are transparent hoses okay?
2. Should I be double clamping each hose end?
3. Is there a valve material or SAE/metric requirement for both fresh and salt water?
4. When cutting the hoses, do I need any sort of special tool?
5. Similar questions for the bilge pump hoses specifically. Not sure if there are requirements of these?
6. Any retailers that sell this stuff that come to mind? I have a West Marine close by, but am happy to go elsewhere. For reference my boat is in San Diego right now.
7. After I replace this stuff, is there any specific type of maintenance other than visual inspection to keep things in good working order?
8. For my hot water heater, do folks have any references they could link me to on how to clean it? I don't think it's been cleaned/serviced in 6+ years.

Thanks!
-Vic "Moon Dog" SM248



Vic Fryzel
 

Thanks Kevin! This is extremely useful!! I'll be following all that advice.

Thanks,
- Vic


On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 5:09 AM Kevin Fox via groups.io <foxkm=protonmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Vic,

I'm no expert, but here are my experiences.  I've recently replaced a lot of the engine room hoses on Rascal due to rusted hose clamps, stiff hoses, and to simplify some non-Amel modifications.

1. I've been using various grades of Trident hose for fresh and sea water.  They are mostly transparent but reinforced with either fiber or a PVC helix.  It's helpful to be able to see whether liquid is inside, particularly when troubleshooting a bilge pump issue.
2. Doubling the hose clamps is dependent upon the length of the fitting that the hose slips over.  If the fitting is too short, adding a second hose clamp can do more harm than good.  If there's room, I've used two.  Be sure to look for good quality stainless steel hose clamps, preferably not the perforated type.
3. I don't know.  Rascal had a minimal number of valves in the water systems and I've kept it that way.  I added a lot of isolation valves when re-plumbing my house, and they weren't worth the trouble.  I replaced a couple leaking metallic valves on Rascal's water maker with PVC valves.  I'll be watching to see how well they hold up.  
4. A ratcheting pipe cutter or flexible tubing cutter will make your job much easier by giving fast, clean cuts:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-Flexible-Tube-Cutter-97642/304217583?modalType=drawer
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-1-1-4-in-Ratcheting-PVC-Cutter-16PL0101-1/304217581?modalType=drawer
A heat gun is very helpful for both removal and installation of hoses.  I use a cordless one, which avoids combining AC voltages with work close to water:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/RYOBI-18-Volt-ONE-Lithium-Ion-Cordless-Heat-Gun-Tool-Only-P3150/306925921?modalType=drawer
5. You need to use hose that is reinforced so that it doesn't collapse under the vacuum of the bilge pumps.  It will be sold as bilge hose.
6. I ordered my materials online from Defender.  I wasn't able to use a local supplier, but I'm sure there are a few in San Diego.  The reason I've been using Trident hose is simply because that's what Defender sells.
7. I don't know.  I do frequent visual checks, and my family knows to report any water where there shouldn't be water, or any pumps running at unexpected times.
8. I believe there are some topics here on cleaning water heaters.  I haven't tried it.  I just replaced ours due to a slow leak in the tank.

-- 
Kevin and Elise Fox
SM404 Rascal
Charleston, SC


Kevin Fox
 

Vic,

I'm no expert, but here are my experiences.  I've recently replaced a lot of the engine room hoses on Rascal due to rusted hose clamps, stiff hoses, and to simplify some non-Amel modifications.

1. I've been using various grades of Trident hose for fresh and sea water.  They are mostly transparent but reinforced with either fiber or a PVC helix.  It's helpful to be able to see whether liquid is inside, particularly when troubleshooting a bilge pump issue.
2. Doubling the hose clamps is dependent upon the length of the fitting that the hose slips over.  If the fitting is too short, adding a second hose clamp can do more harm than good.  If there's room, I've used two.  Be sure to look for good quality stainless steel hose clamps, preferably not the perforated type.
3. I don't know.  Rascal had a minimal number of valves in the water systems and I've kept it that way.  I added a lot of isolation valves when re-plumbing my house, and they weren't worth the trouble.  I replaced a couple leaking metallic valves on Rascal's water maker with PVC valves.  I'll be watching to see how well they hold up.  
4. A ratcheting pipe cutter or flexible tubing cutter will make your job much easier by giving fast, clean cuts:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-Flexible-Tube-Cutter-97642/304217583?modalType=drawer
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-1-1-4-in-Ratcheting-PVC-Cutter-16PL0101-1/304217581?modalType=drawer
A heat gun is very helpful for both removal and installation of hoses.  I use a cordless one, which avoids combining AC voltages with work close to water:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/RYOBI-18-Volt-ONE-Lithium-Ion-Cordless-Heat-Gun-Tool-Only-P3150/306925921?modalType=drawer
5. You need to use hose that is reinforced so that it doesn't collapse under the vacuum of the bilge pumps.  It will be sold as bilge hose.
6. I ordered my materials online from Defender.  I wasn't able to use a local supplier, but I'm sure there are a few in San Diego.  The reason I've been using Trident hose is simply because that's what Defender sells.
7. I don't know.  I do frequent visual checks, and my family knows to report any water where there shouldn't be water, or any pumps running at unexpected times.
8. I believe there are some topics here on cleaning water heaters.  I haven't tried it.  I just replaced ours due to a slow leak in the tank.

-- 
Kevin and Elise Fox
SM404 Rascal
Charleston, SC


Vic Fryzel
 

Hi,

For the first time, I'm looking at replacing a lot of or ~all of the hoses/valves that deliver fresh or raw water in the engine room.

Some of mine have become extremely rusted or are a bit split. A lot of the hose clamps are rusted closed. And some of the valves are barely usable because of some corrosion or rust. I'm hoping folks might be able to help me with a few questions:

1. Is there a type or class of hose I need to use? Any other hose requirements? Are transparent hoses okay?
2. Should I be double clamping each hose end?
3. Is there a valve material or SAE/metric requirement for both fresh and salt water?
4. When cutting the hoses, do I need any sort of special tool?
5. Similar questions for the bilge pump hoses specifically. Not sure if there are requirements of these?
6. Any retailers that sell this stuff that come to mind? I have a West Marine close by, but am happy to go elsewhere. For reference my boat is in San Diego right now.
7. After I replace this stuff, is there any specific type of maintenance other than visual inspection to keep things in good working order?
8. For my hot water heater, do folks have any references they could link me to on how to clean it? I don't think it's been cleaned/serviced in 6+ years.

Thanks!
-Vic "Moon Dog" SM248