Topics

Running back stays on A54


Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica
 

Hello,

It is to be prefered to fix the backstays like David shows on his picture at the cleat or just at the same piont like the gib. 
As we already got a backstay we are staticaly better up when the backstay attaches as far latteral as possible. 
The backstay is supposed to compensate latteral forces of the staysail. 

Oliver from Vela Nautica 
A54#39 
Martinique 

On Wed, Aug 26, 2020, 17:10 Sv Garulfo <svgarulfo@...> wrote:
On Garulfo, we have a variation of Arno’s solution with a knot instead of the hook and a small block to lead the tie (black and white in the pic) back to a cleat near the cockpit.



Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Raiatea, French Polynesia 

On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 at 09:51, Laurens Vos <laurensrineke@...> wrote:

Hi Arno,

Thanks for sharing your solution regarding the backstays.
Will try it out. But even with this solution one need to still go out the cockpit to unhook the hanging hook. 

Bill’s solution could be also working well but I’m afraid there will be too much stretch to give the mast a good support. 


Regards 
Laurens Vos 
Fun@Sea A54-92


Sv Garulfo
 

On Garulfo, we have a variation of Arno’s solution with a knot instead of the hook and a small block to lead the tie (black and white in the pic) back to a cleat near the cockpit.



Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Raiatea, French Polynesia 

On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 at 09:51, Laurens Vos <laurensrineke@...> wrote:

Hi Arno,

Thanks for sharing your solution regarding the backstays.
Will try it out. But even with this solution one need to still go out the cockpit to unhook the hanging hook. 

Bill’s solution could be also working well but I’m afraid there will be too much stretch to give the mast a good support. 


Regards 
Laurens Vos 
Fun@Sea A54-92


amelforme
 

Peter, my Amel 54 # 14 was the best and most satisfying boat I have ever owned. The only thing worse than selling it would have been keeping it but not being able to enjoy it in the manner it was intended for. I still like working at selling all the good used Amels I can find which gets harder every year, especially the ‘good’ part. The guy who owns it now gives it plenty of the two things boats like best, exercise and maintenance. We remain friends so all’s well that ends well.

 

All the best,

Joel

 

           JOEL F. POTTER ~ CRUISING YACHT SPECIALIST, L.L.C.

                                         The Experienced AMEL Guy

UNSURPASSED AMEL MARKETING EXPERIENCE AND PRODUCT KNOWLEDGE

                                  Office 954-462-5869  Cell 954-812-2485

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Peter Forbes
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 1:24 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Running back stays on A54

 

 

Joel,

 

We will meet for sure - keep in touch.

 

I can’t sell my Amel 54 I love her too much.

 

Peter 

 

On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 at 18:12, amelforme <jfpottercys@...> wrote:

Peter, I’ll send you that 20 quid I promised.

 

Sorry that it looks like our pub lunch in the splendid English summertime will have to wait another year.

 

Everybody say a prayer for Bill Rouse. Hurricane Laura may not be kind to Galveston Texas tonight.

 

All the best,

Joel

 

           JOEL F. POTTER ~ CRUISING YACHT SPECIALIST, L.L.C.

                                         The Experienced AMEL Guy

UNSURPASSED AMEL MARKETING EXPERIENCE AND PRODUCT KNOWLEDGE

                                  Office 954-462-5869  Cell 954-812-2485

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Peter Forbes
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 3:41 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Running back stays on A54

 

Arno,

 

Good solution for the running backstays, I use mine a lot because I love flying the staysail, and much like my own.

 

I agree entirely I wouldn’t want to be a member of a club which would have me as a member but this forum is, in my opinion, excellent thanks to so many great Amel sailors topped off by the brilliance of Bill Rouse and Joel Potter.

 

peter

Peter Forbes

The Old Rectory 

Farnham

Blandford

DT11 8 DE

00447836 209730

07836 209730

 

On 25 Aug 2020, at 23:21, Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

The way my running backstays are rigged seems fairly handy to me.

The backstay is made from aramide/kevlar sheet with extreme little stretch. When not in use the sheet comes down from the mast to a little piece of string tied to the end of the Genua-rail ( see picture1). Originally it was just tied, but I put an old fashioned hanking hook from an old jib to the piece of string so I can click it over the backstay. Storing it like this means it is out of the way when walking on the side-deck.

<Picture1.png>



From there the backstay runs to the back of the boat to a block at the same place as where the Genua-sheet turning block resides. See picture 2 (best I have)

<Picture2.png>



Directly after the block there is a knot in the backstay, so it cannot escape the block.
When you want to use the staysail in stronger winds (12+ knots) you unhook the hanking hook and pull the knot at the end of the backstay untill you can use the tail to put it on the small winch. Pull the backstay tight with a little tension on it, using the winch. Now  you can deploy the staysail. The sheet for the staysail will use the winch at the other side so there is no conflict at winch utilization. You don't use the lee-side backstay as it can/will rub the main sail.


Hope this is clear....

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna
A54-121








--

Best wishes

Peter Forbes

+44 (0) 7836 209730


Laurens Vos
 

Hi Arno,

Thanks for sharing your solution regarding the backstays.
Will try it out. But even with this solution one need to still go out the cockpit to unhook the hanging hook. 

Bill’s solution could be also working well but I’m afraid there will be too much stretch to give the mast a good support. 


Regards 
Laurens Vos 
Fun@Sea A54-92


Peter Forbes
 


Joel,

We will meet for sure - keep in touch.

I can’t sell my Amel 54 I love her too much.

Peter 


On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 at 18:12, amelforme <jfpottercys@...> wrote:

Peter, I’ll send you that 20 quid I promised.

 

Sorry that it looks like our pub lunch in the splendid English summertime will have to wait another year.

 

Everybody say a prayer for Bill Rouse. Hurricane Laura may not be kind to Galveston Texas tonight.

 

All the best,

Joel

 

           JOEL F. POTTER ~ CRUISING YACHT SPECIALIST, L.L.C.

                                         The Experienced AMEL Guy

UNSURPASSED AMEL MARKETING EXPERIENCE AND PRODUCT KNOWLEDGE

                                  Office 954-462-5869  Cell 954-812-2485

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Peter Forbes
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 3:41 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Running back stays on A54

 

Arno,

 

Good solution for the running backstays, I use mine a lot because I love flying the staysail, and much like my own.

 

I agree entirely I wouldn’t want to be a member of a club which would have me as a member but this forum is, in my opinion, excellent thanks to so many great Amel sailors topped off by the brilliance of Bill Rouse and Joel Potter.

 

peter

Peter Forbes

The Old Rectory 

Farnham

Blandford

DT11 8 DE

00447836 209730

07836 209730



On 25 Aug 2020, at 23:21, Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

The way my running backstays are rigged seems fairly handy to me.

The backstay is made from aramide/kevlar sheet with extreme little stretch. When not in use the sheet comes down from the mast to a little piece of string tied to the end of the Genua-rail ( see picture1). Originally it was just tied, but I put an old fashioned hanking hook from an old jib to the piece of string so I can click it over the backstay. Storing it like this means it is out of the way when walking on the side-deck.

<Picture1.png>



From there the backstay runs to the back of the boat to a block at the same place as where the Genua-sheet turning block resides. See picture 2 (best I have)

<Picture2.png>



Directly after the block there is a knot in the backstay, so it cannot escape the block.
When you want to use the staysail in stronger winds (12+ knots) you unhook the hanking hook and pull the knot at the end of the backstay untill you can use the tail to put it on the small winch. Pull the backstay tight with a little tension on it, using the winch. Now  you can deploy the staysail. The sheet for the staysail will use the winch at the other side so there is no conflict at winch utilization. You don't use the lee-side backstay as it can/will rub the main sail.


Hope this is clear....

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna
A54-121









--
Best wishes
Peter Forbes
+44 (0) 7836 209730


amelforme
 

Peter, I’ll send you that 20 quid I promised.

 

Sorry that it looks like our pub lunch in the splendid English summertime will have to wait another year.

 

Everybody say a prayer for Bill Rouse. Hurricane Laura may not be kind to Galveston Texas tonight.

 

All the best,

Joel

 

           JOEL F. POTTER ~ CRUISING YACHT SPECIALIST, L.L.C.

                                         The Experienced AMEL Guy

UNSURPASSED AMEL MARKETING EXPERIENCE AND PRODUCT KNOWLEDGE

                                  Office 954-462-5869  Cell 954-812-2485

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Peter Forbes
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 3:41 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Running back stays on A54

 

Arno,

 

Good solution for the running backstays, I use mine a lot because I love flying the staysail, and much like my own.

 

I agree entirely I wouldn’t want to be a member of a club which would have me as a member but this forum is, in my opinion, excellent thanks to so many great Amel sailors topped off by the brilliance of Bill Rouse and Joel Potter.

 

peter

Peter Forbes

The Old Rectory 

Farnham

Blandford

DT11 8 DE

00447836 209730

07836 209730



On 25 Aug 2020, at 23:21, Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

The way my running backstays are rigged seems fairly handy to me.

The backstay is made from aramide/kevlar sheet with extreme little stretch. When not in use the sheet comes down from the mast to a little piece of string tied to the end of the Genua-rail ( see picture1). Originally it was just tied, but I put an old fashioned hanking hook from an old jib to the piece of string so I can click it over the backstay. Storing it like this means it is out of the way when walking on the side-deck.

<Picture1.png>



From there the backstay runs to the back of the boat to a block at the same place as where the Genua-sheet turning block resides. See picture 2 (best I have)

<Picture2.png>



Directly after the block there is a knot in the backstay, so it cannot escape the block.
When you want to use the staysail in stronger winds (12+ knots) you unhook the hanking hook and pull the knot at the end of the backstay untill you can use the tail to put it on the small winch. Pull the backstay tight with a little tension on it, using the winch. Now  you can deploy the staysail. The sheet for the staysail will use the winch at the other side so there is no conflict at winch utilization. You don't use the lee-side backstay as it can/will rub the main sail.


Hope this is clear....

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna
A54-121


Porter McRoberts
 

Thank you Joerg. 
Great description. I’m going to try it out!  
Really appreciated 

Porter

Porter McRoberts 
S/V IBIS 
WhatsApp:+1 754 265 2206
Www.fouribis.net

On Aug 26, 2020, at 3:55 AM, Barry Connor via groups.io <connor_barry@...> wrote:


Thank's Arno,
Really appreciate your post with explanation and photos.
I get so much from this forum.

Very Best

Barry and Penny
"SV Lady Penelope II"
Amel 54.  #17
Sainte Anne anchorage Martinique


On Wednesday, August 26, 2020, 9:36:32 AM EDT, Joerg Esdorn via groups.io <jhe1313@...> wrote:


About 1.5 m above the block and tackle used to store the runners.  I would start by using duct tape to tape some old line to the runners and see whether it makes a difference.  You are correct that it’s not possible to get those knots back out once you have used the runners with them in earnest.  


Joerg


Barry Connor
 

Thank's Arno,
Really appreciate your post with explanation and photos.
I get so much from this forum.

Very Best

Barry and Penny
"SV Lady Penelope II"
Amel 54.  #17
Sainte Anne anchorage Martinique


On Wednesday, August 26, 2020, 9:36:32 AM EDT, Joerg Esdorn via groups.io <jhe1313@...> wrote:


About 1.5 m above the block and tackle used to store the runners.  I would start by using duct tape to tape some old line to the runners and see whether it makes a difference.  You are correct that it’s not possible to get those knots back out once you have used the runners with them in earnest.  


Joerg


Joerg Esdorn
 

About 1.5 m above the block and tackle used to store the runners.  I would start by using duct tape to tape some old line to the runners and see whether it makes a difference.  You are correct that it’s not possible to get those knots back out once you have used the runners with them in earnest.  


Joerg


Peter Forbes
 

Arno,

Good solution for the running backstays, I use mine a lot because I love flying the staysail, and much like my own.

I agree entirely I wouldn’t want to be a member of a club which would have me as a member but this forum is, in my opinion, excellent thanks to so many great Amel sailors topped off by the brilliance of Bill Rouse and Joel Potter.

peter
Peter Forbes
The Old Rectory 
Farnham
Blandford
DT11 8 DE
00447836 209730
07836 209730

On 25 Aug 2020, at 23:21, Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

The way my running backstays are rigged seems fairly handy to me.

The backstay is made from aramide/kevlar sheet with extreme little stretch. When not in use the sheet comes down from the mast to a little piece of string tied to the end of the Genua-rail ( see picture1). Originally it was just tied, but I put an old fashioned hanking hook from an old jib to the piece of string so I can click it over the backstay. Storing it like this means it is out of the way when walking on the side-deck.

<Picture1.png>


From there the backstay runs to the back of the boat to a block at the same place as where the Genua-sheet turning block resides. See picture 2 (best I have)

<Picture2.png>


Directly after the block there is a knot in the backstay, so it cannot escape the block.
When you want to use the staysail in stronger winds (12+ knots) you unhook the hanking hook and pull the knot at the end of the backstay untill you can use the tail to put it on the small winch. Pull the backstay tight with a little tension on it, using the winch. Now  you can deploy the staysail. The sheet for the staysail will use the winch at the other side so there is no conflict at winch utilization. You don't use the lee-side backstay as it can/will rub the main sail.


Hope this is clear....

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna
A54-121


Arno Luijten
 

The way my running backstays are rigged seems fairly handy to me.

The backstay is made from aramide/kevlar sheet with extreme little stretch. When not in use the sheet comes down from the mast to a little piece of string tied to the end of the Genua-rail ( see picture1). Originally it was just tied, but I put an old fashioned hanking hook from an old jib to the piece of string so I can click it over the backstay. Storing it like this means it is out of the way when walking on the side-deck.



From there the backstay runs to the back of the boat to a block at the same place as where the Genua-sheet turning block resides. See picture 2 (best I have)



Directly after the block there is a knot in the backstay, so it cannot escape the block.
When you want to use the staysail in stronger winds (12+ knots) you unhook the hanking hook and pull the knot at the end of the backstay untill you can use the tail to put it on the small winch. Pull the backstay tight with a little tension on it, using the winch. Now  you can deploy the staysail. The sheet for the staysail will use the winch at the other side so there is no conflict at winch utilization. You don't use the lee-side backstay as it can/will rub the main sail.


Hope this is clear....

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna
A54-121


Porter McRoberts
 

Joerg 
Thank you for the suggestion. 
I’ll try it, but knowing those knots will never come out I want to make sure I’ve got them in the right place. How far up the back stay from the snatch block is the knot?  

Many thanks
Porter A54-152

Porter McRoberts 
S/V IBIS 
WhatsApp:+1 754 265 2206
Www.fouribis.net

On Aug 25, 2020, at 6:01 AM, David Crisp <david@...> wrote:

Thanks Bill,

The two blocks, great suggestion, I like it.
--
David Crisp
SV Wilna Grace
Amel 54 #58


David Crisp
 

Thanks Bill,

The two blocks, great suggestion, I like it.
--
David Crisp
SV Wilna Grace
Amel 54 #58


 

I have always wondered why Amel left this out of the Amel 54 manuals. There is not really anything in the 55 or 50 either.

I suggest using this point (blue circle 1st photo below) and rigging two opposing blocks with 2:1 purchase (one with cam cleats - 2nd photo below), just like your Mizzen Boom Preventer. This leaves the smaller winch available to use.
image.png
A pair of these will make your life easy:
image.png
Neither the 54 Users nor Owners manuals say anything about the running backstays. I found this little note that memorializes the confidence Amel had of the Bamar furlers: "The jib furling and the staysail (option) system don’t need any maintenance." I am not sure that statement was accurate, and I did not find a similar statement of Reckmann for the 55 or ProFurl for the 50. Things change.

There is no photo of running backstay rigging in the 55 manual and the only mention is, "If your craft is equipped with a staysail (optional), the running backstays must be installed, regardless of the speed."  

There is no photo of backstay rigging in the Amel 50 manual and the only mention is, "If your craft is equipped with a staysail (optional), the running backstays must be installed, regardless of the speed. Do not navigate under the genoa only."

Maybe the above helps.

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 8:06 AM David Crisp <david@...> wrote:
Having previously had a Super Maramu one of the attractions of getting an A54 was the staysail.  Unfortunately I can't find any information on the correct way to rig the running back stays. What information there is is for an A55, which from what I can see, has a different deck layout to a A54. Below is a photo of the rig I've devised using some blocks with soft shackles left by the previous owner which seem perfect for the job.  I've attached the block to the mooring cleat on the assumption the loops at the base of the stanchion may not be man enough.

Any comments/suggestions from experienced A54 owners?



--
David Crisp
SV Wilna Grace
Amel 54 #58


Courtney Gorman
 

Hi David I have a triangular loop at the base of one of my supports for the safety rail about halfway between the small winch and the stern where I hook the pulley then run it to the winch as you have.
What you have done will definitely work 
Cheers
Courtney


-----Original Message-----
From: David Crisp <david@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Aug 24, 2020 9:05 am
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Running back stays on A54

Having previously had a Super Maramu one of the attractions of getting an A54 was the staysail.  Unfortunately I can't find any information on the correct way to rig the running back stays. What information there is is for an A55, which from what I can see, has a different deck layout to a A54. Below is a photo of the rig I've devised using some blocks with soft shackles left by the previous owner which seem perfect for the job.  I've attached the block to the mooring cleat on the assumption the loops at the base of the stanchion may not be man enough.

Any comments/suggestions from experienced A54 owners?



--
David Crisp
SV Wilna Grace
Amel 54 #58


David Crisp
 

Having previously had a Super Maramu one of the attractions of getting an A54 was the staysail.  Unfortunately I can't find any information on the correct way to rig the running back stays. What information there is is for an A55, which from what I can see, has a different deck layout to a A54. Below is a photo of the rig I've devised using some blocks with soft shackles left by the previous owner which seem perfect for the job.  I've attached the block to the mooring cleat on the assumption the loops at the base of the stanchion may not be man enough.

Any comments/suggestions from experienced A54 owners?



--
David Crisp
SV Wilna Grace
Amel 54 #58