Topics

Raw Water Manifold Failure - A54


Alan Leslie
 

We had a complete manifold made out of stainless steel by EMEK Marine in Turkey for our SM.
Beautifully made, I think this is the answer.
Not sure if SM and 54 manifolds are the same, if not it surely wouldn't be difficult to modify the design.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437 stuck in Opua NZ


Jamie Wendell
 

I do not think that the manifold corrosion is directly related to the bonding system. Copper will eventually fail in a salt-water environment, which is what I experienced.
You can verify the problems with copper by inspecting some of the original wiring in the boat, which was not tinned unfortunately. The copper strands turn black.
In the case of the manifold, you have trapped raw water inside and you cannot see the gradual corrosion taking place.
Jamie
Phantom, A54 #44


Sv Garulfo
 


Thanks for the heads up about the manifold. 

Does premature corrosion of the copper manifold indicate a possible disconnection from the bonding system and/or an electrical leak?


Thanks 
Thomas 
GARULFO
A54-122
Raiatea, French Polynesia 


On Fri, 28 Aug 2020 at 17:24, Craig Briggs via groups.io <sangaris=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Michael,
Olivier Beaute had a fun quiz on this DB a while ago and asked what the main PVC pipe was on the boat - it was the cockpit drains!  They are not GRP fiberglass covered except where they are tabbed into the hull. I've drilled through mine up high for A/C and Refrigeration cooling water discharges when I added those systems to my SN - they are just PVC.

As to the PVC pipe schedule, I think plain old white hardware store Schedule 40 rated at 220 psi should be fine - there is simply no positive pressure at all in the manifold (maybe a slight negative pressure, actually, as pumps suck water). That appears to be what Tom Cunliffe has used in the article I posted a couple of days ago. But, hey, overkill never hurt, either.

If I'm not mistaken, all Amels have factory installed fire suppression systems in the engine rooms.

Cheers, Craig  -  SN68 Sangaris, Tropic Isle Harbor, FL


Craig Briggs
 

Hi Michael,
Olivier Beaute had a fun quiz on this DB a while ago and asked what the main PVC pipe was on the boat - it was the cockpit drains!  They are not GRP fiberglass covered except where they are tabbed into the hull. I've drilled through mine up high for A/C and Refrigeration cooling water discharges when I added those systems to my SN - they are just PVC.

As to the PVC pipe schedule, I think plain old white hardware store Schedule 40 rated at 220 psi should be fine - there is simply no positive pressure at all in the manifold (maybe a slight negative pressure, actually, as pumps suck water). That appears to be what Tom Cunliffe has used in the article I posted a couple of days ago. But, hey, overkill never hurt, either.

If I'm not mistaken, all Amels have factory installed fire suppression systems in the engine rooms.

Cheers, Craig  -  SN68 Sangaris, Tropic Isle Harbor, FL


Porter McRoberts
 

We used these incredibly versatile fittings to fabricate the manifold. 


Porter
A54-152


On Aug 28, 2020, at 4:19 PM, michael winand via groups.io <mfw642000@...> wrote:

Hi Craig,  I was pointing out that the photo of the new Amel manifold is made of poly pipe fitting that are heat welded, www.advancedpiping.com.au      this makes a very strong joint. 
If you are going to use PVC pipe  I would be sure to use shedual  pressure pipe and fittings, with the glue that is appropriate for pressure fittings, also need to clean the fittings and pipe with a MEk cleaner,,. Swimming pool pumping and filter style fittings would work.   Stay clear of drainage fittings and pipe.  
Regarding a engine room fire, we should have a working fire suppression system, like the fire boy.
I  was under the impression that the cockpit drains are fibreglass covered.
I know that the main engine and genset  exhausts are a heavy schedule pvc fitting at the waterline exit. Should not have any heat in this part of the exhaust. 
Regards Michael winand  Nebo sm251


On Sat, 29 Aug. 2020 at 10:18 am, Craig Briggs via groups.io
<sangaris@...> wrote:
Hi Michael,
I'm not sure I understand the difference between using PVC in the engine room for a drain, as Amel does for the large diameter cockpit drains which have no water in them above the water line and no seacocks, and using it for a Manifold, which would always have water inside and thus, ostensibly, be more resistant to being compromised by fire, and in addition has a seacock. What am I missing?
Best regards, Craig -- SN68 Sangaris, Tropic Isle Harbor, FL


michael winand
 

Hi Craig,  I was pointing out that the photo of the new Amel manifold is made of poly pipe fitting that are heat welded, www.advancedpiping.com.au      this makes a very strong joint. 
If you are going to use PVC pipe  I would be sure to use shedual  pressure pipe and fittings, with the glue that is appropriate for pressure fittings, also need to clean the fittings and pipe with a MEk cleaner,,. Swimming pool pumping and filter style fittings would work.   Stay clear of drainage fittings and pipe.  
Regarding a engine room fire, we should have a working fire suppression system, like the fire boy.
I  was under the impression that the cockpit drains are fibreglass covered.
I know that the main engine and genset  exhausts are a heavy schedule pvc fitting at the waterline exit. Should not have any heat in this part of the exhaust. 
Regards Michael winand  Nebo sm251


On Sat, 29 Aug. 2020 at 10:18 am, Craig Briggs via groups.io
<sangaris@...> wrote:
Hi Michael,
I'm not sure I understand the difference between using PVC in the engine room for a drain, as Amel does for the large diameter cockpit drains which have no water in them above the water line and no seacocks, and using it for a Manifold, which would always have water inside and thus, ostensibly, be more resistant to being compromised by fire, and in addition has a seacock. What am I missing?
Best regards, Craig -- SN68 Sangaris, Tropic Isle Harbor, FL


Craig Briggs
 

Hi Michael,
I'm not sure I understand the difference between using PVC in the engine room for a drain, as Amel does for the large diameter cockpit drains which have no water in them above the water line and no seacocks, and using it for a Manifold, which would always have water inside and thus, ostensibly, be more resistant to being compromised by fire, and in addition has a seacock. What am I missing?
Best regards, Craig -- SN68 Sangaris, Tropic Isle Harbor, FL


michael winand
 

I would like to point out that the pipe is not pvc.
These are a polymer that is heat welded.  I would not recommend pvc in the engine room. It's ok for a drain. 
Regards Michael  Nebo sm251


On Sat, 29 Aug 2020 at 12:37 am, CW Bill Rouse
<brouse@...> wrote:
Porter,

This is a photo of the Amel 50 saltwater manifold. If I were you, I would do something like this in PVC:
image.png

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 3:14 AM Porter McRoberts via groups.io <portermcroberts=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Paul. 
We concerns of a plastic manifold...
Or a plastic sea chest with a fire!  
Wow. There are critical concerns with every boat for sure. Or a crack in the Seachest lid!  We have replacements. The boat did not come with one.  After sailing for a while and letting the mind wander I think of all kinds of scenarios. The sea chest lid threads get screwed up....   Extra o rings? We got some but...   One can go on and on. 
You’re line of questioning is a good one. What would Amel say?  

Lets hope we never have an ER fire!  

Porter

Porter McRoberts 
S/V IBIS 
WhatsApp:+1 754 265 2206

On Aug 27, 2020, at 1:27 PM, Teun BAAS <teun@...> wrote:



Last paragraph Porter’s Email: attached is the part.

 

April/May 2018 it broke off completely on AMELIT; this is the replacement part I got from AMEL.

I noticed the new unit “sweating” & oxidizing rather quickly; it almost looked like 2 different metals were used. In July/August 2019, in VANUATU, checking & prepping the boat for the trip to the SOLOMONS, my local mechanic Matthieu & I decided to remove this unit completely and replace with a plastic (PVC???) self built unit which has been doing great with no “sweating” at all.

 

When I asked Thierry (AMEL SAV) this was his reply:

 

QUOTE

 

To answer your question this manifold is custom made by Amel . The welding between brass fitting and copper pipe is  carefully done and there is  no risk of leakage.

 

UNQUOTE

 

I have also been planning to redo everything along the A50/60 concept with individual shut off valves for each downstream line.

 

Best Regards Teun

SV AMELIT  A54  #128

 

I am stuck & bored and have been cruising on my motorcycle (March/April) all over BAJA CALIFORNIA 😊 😊 and since June in USA via magnificient State & National Parks on my way to ANNAPOLIS boatshow 😊

 

AMELIT is in storage on the hard in COOMERA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA and now watched by fellow AMEL owners Sue & Brian MITCHELL (SV LOLA)

August 27, 2020 16:20:07

 

USA cell: +1 832 477 8842

AUSTRALIA cell: +61 5951 8909

 

You can follow AMELIT via this link: https://forecast.predictwind.com/tracking/display/AMELIT

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Porter McRoberts via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2020 12:40
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Raw Water Manifold Failure - A54

 

This is indeed a serious issue. 

We had the initial bronze manifold on IBIS. Looked horrible and so when we ordered our arch from Turkey had a stainless replacement manifold constructed. About 2 years ago I changed the bronze one, with significant corrosion to the stainless replacement. One year after replacement upon inspection in NZ I found a small pit and a leak. It was in NZ that I had the resources to build a new manifold out of plastic. I had reservations about the material (plastic vs metal) but recall from an A55 that I believe the stock manifold is plastic on the A55. Encouraged by the chandlery in Opua I built a plastic one. It took a couple of days, a lot of measuring and 5200. I put in isolation valves. I think it is far better than the original. I’d encourage any others who have the resources of a nearby good plumbing chandlery to think about it. One of the very cool parts of the A55 is the ability to isolate and turn of seawater to specific downstream applications. (Don’t have to turn off the refrigerator to work on the AC pump)

 

I think we’re a lot safer now. I repaired the stainless manifold and keep as a spare, but would be lothe to return to it. 

 

Keep in mind there is another smaller manifold (of which we also keep a spare) starbord of the seachest that distributes to the main engine, and then to the distribution manifold via a (formerly iffy) looking hose. That manifold could also easily fail. Amel has replacements. 

 

Porter

 

 

Porter McRoberts 

S/V IBIS A54-152

WhatsApp:+1 754 265 2206



On Aug 27, 2020, at 3:38 AM, Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...> wrote:



Jamie,

 

I built a new one from off-the-shelf bronze fittings and a short piece of reinforced hose in the middle. Two years on and no problems, and it will be much easier to repair next time as it can be taken apart in the middle before pulling the parts out which is much easier than getting the original out.

 

I would also be interested if anyone else has adopted this solution and how long it has lasted.

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 - Grenada

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jamie Wendell
Sent: 27 August 2020 14:54
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Raw Water Manifold Failure - A54

 

I want to report a serious issue regarding the raw-water manifold that feeds the refrigerator, anchor wash, AC, and watermaker pumps on my A54. As I was servicing the sea chest strainer and cleaning out the clogged hoses, the nipple connection feeding the refrigerator pump broke off from the manifold. It actually appears to have been cracked already and was essentially sucking in some air with the cooling water. You can tell that when you hear a slight gurgling sound at the discharge thru-hull - initially I thought it was a pump problem related to insufficient cooling water through the main system strainer. Luckily I was on board at the time - if not, seawater may have poured into the engine room relying on only the automatic bilge pump to keep the water out. If the water ingress had been more than the bilge pump could discharge, the boat might have sunk (a very scary thought!).

I removed the manifold - no easy task, as it is buried behind the hoses, wires, and the cockpit scupper. The manifold appears to be made of bronze, but there was some external corrosion evident at the joint between the refrigerator connection and the main manifold tubing. It is likely that the corrosion is far worse inside the manifold, and that is hard to see when there is a lot of muck building up in the tubing. Very probably, the other nipples have similar corrosion issues inside.

So, I am now in the process of trying to replace the seawater manifold. I have 2 options: the first is to replace in kind, either custom built in a local fab shop or ordered through Amel; the second is to build one out of bronze fittings, pipe, and hose sections. I am not sure if any local shops can work with bronze, but I am investigating that possibility first. I am certain that Amel had these things built specifically for the A54 and maybe the SM or even the A55 - I am not sure if it is common to all models, but I question whether Amel could still source a replacement. The advantage to an in-kind replacement is that it would be a drop-in and also be smaller and lighter. The advantage to a manifold built from fittings is that I can install shut-off valves for each feed circuit, allowing me to isolate if there is a problem with one of the systems and retain the other systems in operation while I service the failed system. I like that concept the best, as many times I have to work on one of the feeders, while having to shut down everything to do it via the main in-line valve. By the way, that valve also looks suspect to me and I will be replacing it.

So, I am passing on my experience to the group as a reminder to check this manifold on a periodic basis. It is hard to see internal corrosion, but it is clear that even bronze will eventually fail. Phantom is now 13 years old, so maybe I was due for replacement. Has anyone else had this failure, and if so, what was your best solution to replace? Has anyone attempted to source from Amel?

Thanks,
Jamie Wendell
Phantom, A54 #44


--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

<IMG-20190520-WA0006.jpg>


 

Porter,

This is a photo of the Amel 50 saltwater manifold. If I were you, I would do something like this in PVC:
image.png

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 3:14 AM Porter McRoberts via groups.io <portermcroberts=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Paul. 
We concerns of a plastic manifold...
Or a plastic sea chest with a fire!  
Wow. There are critical concerns with every boat for sure. Or a crack in the Seachest lid!  We have replacements. The boat did not come with one.  After sailing for a while and letting the mind wander I think of all kinds of scenarios. The sea chest lid threads get screwed up....   Extra o rings? We got some but...   One can go on and on. 
You’re line of questioning is a good one. What would Amel say?  

Lets hope we never have an ER fire!  

Porter

Porter McRoberts 
S/V IBIS 
WhatsApp:+1 754 265 2206

On Aug 27, 2020, at 1:27 PM, Teun BAAS <teun@...> wrote:



Last paragraph Porter’s Email: attached is the part.

 

April/May 2018 it broke off completely on AMELIT; this is the replacement part I got from AMEL.

I noticed the new unit “sweating” & oxidizing rather quickly; it almost looked like 2 different metals were used. In July/August 2019, in VANUATU, checking & prepping the boat for the trip to the SOLOMONS, my local mechanic Matthieu & I decided to remove this unit completely and replace with a plastic (PVC???) self built unit which has been doing great with no “sweating” at all.

 

When I asked Thierry (AMEL SAV) this was his reply:

 

QUOTE

 

To answer your question this manifold is custom made by Amel . The welding between brass fitting and copper pipe is  carefully done and there is  no risk of leakage.

 

UNQUOTE

 

I have also been planning to redo everything along the A50/60 concept with individual shut off valves for each downstream line.

 

Best Regards Teun

SV AMELIT  A54  #128

 

I am stuck & bored and have been cruising on my motorcycle (March/April) all over BAJA CALIFORNIA 😊 😊 and since June in USA via magnificient State & National Parks on my way to ANNAPOLIS boatshow 😊

 

AMELIT is in storage on the hard in COOMERA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA and now watched by fellow AMEL owners Sue & Brian MITCHELL (SV LOLA)

August 27, 2020 16:20:07

 

USA cell: +1 832 477 8842

AUSTRALIA cell: +61 5951 8909

 

You can follow AMELIT via this link: https://forecast.predictwind.com/tracking/display/AMELIT

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Porter McRoberts via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2020 12:40
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Raw Water Manifold Failure - A54

 

This is indeed a serious issue. 

We had the initial bronze manifold on IBIS. Looked horrible and so when we ordered our arch from Turkey had a stainless replacement manifold constructed. About 2 years ago I changed the bronze one, with significant corrosion to the stainless replacement. One year after replacement upon inspection in NZ I found a small pit and a leak. It was in NZ that I had the resources to build a new manifold out of plastic. I had reservations about the material (plastic vs metal) but recall from an A55 that I believe the stock manifold is plastic on the A55. Encouraged by the chandlery in Opua I built a plastic one. It took a couple of days, a lot of measuring and 5200. I put in isolation valves. I think it is far better than the original. I’d encourage any others who have the resources of a nearby good plumbing chandlery to think about it. One of the very cool parts of the A55 is the ability to isolate and turn of seawater to specific downstream applications. (Don’t have to turn off the refrigerator to work on the AC pump)

 

I think we’re a lot safer now. I repaired the stainless manifold and keep as a spare, but would be lothe to return to it. 

 

Keep in mind there is another smaller manifold (of which we also keep a spare) starbord of the seachest that distributes to the main engine, and then to the distribution manifold via a (formerly iffy) looking hose. That manifold could also easily fail. Amel has replacements. 

 

Porter

 

 

Porter McRoberts 

S/V IBIS A54-152

WhatsApp:+1 754 265 2206



On Aug 27, 2020, at 3:38 AM, Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...> wrote:



Jamie,

 

I built a new one from off-the-shelf bronze fittings and a short piece of reinforced hose in the middle. Two years on and no problems, and it will be much easier to repair next time as it can be taken apart in the middle before pulling the parts out which is much easier than getting the original out.

 

I would also be interested if anyone else has adopted this solution and how long it has lasted.

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 - Grenada

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jamie Wendell
Sent: 27 August 2020 14:54
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Raw Water Manifold Failure - A54

 

I want to report a serious issue regarding the raw-water manifold that feeds the refrigerator, anchor wash, AC, and watermaker pumps on my A54. As I was servicing the sea chest strainer and cleaning out the clogged hoses, the nipple connection feeding the refrigerator pump broke off from the manifold. It actually appears to have been cracked already and was essentially sucking in some air with the cooling water. You can tell that when you hear a slight gurgling sound at the discharge thru-hull - initially I thought it was a pump problem related to insufficient cooling water through the main system strainer. Luckily I was on board at the time - if not, seawater may have poured into the engine room relying on only the automatic bilge pump to keep the water out. If the water ingress had been more than the bilge pump could discharge, the boat might have sunk (a very scary thought!).

I removed the manifold - no easy task, as it is buried behind the hoses, wires, and the cockpit scupper. The manifold appears to be made of bronze, but there was some external corrosion evident at the joint between the refrigerator connection and the main manifold tubing. It is likely that the corrosion is far worse inside the manifold, and that is hard to see when there is a lot of muck building up in the tubing. Very probably, the other nipples have similar corrosion issues inside.

So, I am now in the process of trying to replace the seawater manifold. I have 2 options: the first is to replace in kind, either custom built in a local fab shop or ordered through Amel; the second is to build one out of bronze fittings, pipe, and hose sections. I am not sure if any local shops can work with bronze, but I am investigating that possibility first. I am certain that Amel had these things built specifically for the A54 and maybe the SM or even the A55 - I am not sure if it is common to all models, but I question whether Amel could still source a replacement. The advantage to an in-kind replacement is that it would be a drop-in and also be smaller and lighter. The advantage to a manifold built from fittings is that I can install shut-off valves for each feed circuit, allowing me to isolate if there is a problem with one of the systems and retain the other systems in operation while I service the failed system. I like that concept the best, as many times I have to work on one of the feeders, while having to shut down everything to do it via the main in-line valve. By the way, that valve also looks suspect to me and I will be replacing it.

So, I am passing on my experience to the group as a reminder to check this manifold on a periodic basis. It is hard to see internal corrosion, but it is clear that even bronze will eventually fail. Phantom is now 13 years old, so maybe I was due for replacement. Has anyone else had this failure, and if so, what was your best solution to replace? Has anyone attempted to source from Amel?

Thanks,
Jamie Wendell
Phantom, A54 #44


--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

<IMG-20190520-WA0006.jpg>


Porter McRoberts
 

Paul. 
We concerns of a plastic manifold...
Or a plastic sea chest with a fire!  
Wow. There are critical concerns with every boat for sure. Or a crack in the Seachest lid!  We have replacements. The boat did not come with one.  After sailing for a while and letting the mind wander I think of all kinds of scenarios. The sea chest lid threads get screwed up....   Extra o rings? We got some but...   One can go on and on. 
You’re line of questioning is a good one. What would Amel say?  

Lets hope we never have an ER fire!  

Porter

Porter McRoberts 
S/V IBIS 
WhatsApp:+1 754 265 2206
Www.fouribis.net

On Aug 27, 2020, at 1:27 PM, Teun BAAS <teun@...> wrote:



Last paragraph Porter’s Email: attached is the part.

 

April/May 2018 it broke off completely on AMELIT; this is the replacement part I got from AMEL.

I noticed the new unit “sweating” & oxidizing rather quickly; it almost looked like 2 different metals were used. In July/August 2019, in VANUATU, checking & prepping the boat for the trip to the SOLOMONS, my local mechanic Matthieu & I decided to remove this unit completely and replace with a plastic (PVC???) self built unit which has been doing great with no “sweating” at all.

 

When I asked Thierry (AMEL SAV) this was his reply:

 

QUOTE

 

To answer your question this manifold is custom made by Amel . The welding between brass fitting and copper pipe is  carefully done and there is  no risk of leakage.

 

UNQUOTE

 

I have also been planning to redo everything along the A50/60 concept with individual shut off valves for each downstream line.

 

Best Regards Teun

SV AMELIT  A54  #128

 

I am stuck & bored and have been cruising on my motorcycle (March/April) all over BAJA CALIFORNIA 😊 😊 and since June in USA via magnificient State & National Parks on my way to ANNAPOLIS boatshow 😊

 

AMELIT is in storage on the hard in COOMERA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA and now watched by fellow AMEL owners Sue & Brian MITCHELL (SV LOLA)

August 27, 2020 16:20:07

 

USA cell: +1 832 477 8842

AUSTRALIA cell: +61 5951 8909

 

You can follow AMELIT via this link: https://forecast.predictwind.com/tracking/display/AMELIT

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Porter McRoberts via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2020 12:40
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Raw Water Manifold Failure - A54

 

This is indeed a serious issue. 

We had the initial bronze manifold on IBIS. Looked horrible and so when we ordered our arch from Turkey had a stainless replacement manifold constructed. About 2 years ago I changed the bronze one, with significant corrosion to the stainless replacement. One year after replacement upon inspection in NZ I found a small pit and a leak. It was in NZ that I had the resources to build a new manifold out of plastic. I had reservations about the material (plastic vs metal) but recall from an A55 that I believe the stock manifold is plastic on the A55. Encouraged by the chandlery in Opua I built a plastic one. It took a couple of days, a lot of measuring and 5200. I put in isolation valves. I think it is far better than the original. I’d encourage any others who have the resources of a nearby good plumbing chandlery to think about it. One of the very cool parts of the A55 is the ability to isolate and turn of seawater to specific downstream applications. (Don’t have to turn off the refrigerator to work on the AC pump)

 

I think we’re a lot safer now. I repaired the stainless manifold and keep as a spare, but would be lothe to return to it. 

 

Keep in mind there is another smaller manifold (of which we also keep a spare) starbord of the seachest that distributes to the main engine, and then to the distribution manifold via a (formerly iffy) looking hose. That manifold could also easily fail. Amel has replacements. 

 

Porter

 

 

Porter McRoberts 

S/V IBIS A54-152

WhatsApp:+1 754 265 2206



On Aug 27, 2020, at 3:38 AM, Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...> wrote:



Jamie,

 

I built a new one from off-the-shelf bronze fittings and a short piece of reinforced hose in the middle. Two years on and no problems, and it will be much easier to repair next time as it can be taken apart in the middle before pulling the parts out which is much easier than getting the original out.

 

I would also be interested if anyone else has adopted this solution and how long it has lasted.

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 - Grenada

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jamie Wendell
Sent: 27 August 2020 14:54
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Raw Water Manifold Failure - A54

 

I want to report a serious issue regarding the raw-water manifold that feeds the refrigerator, anchor wash, AC, and watermaker pumps on my A54. As I was servicing the sea chest strainer and cleaning out the clogged hoses, the nipple connection feeding the refrigerator pump broke off from the manifold. It actually appears to have been cracked already and was essentially sucking in some air with the cooling water. You can tell that when you hear a slight gurgling sound at the discharge thru-hull - initially I thought it was a pump problem related to insufficient cooling water through the main system strainer. Luckily I was on board at the time - if not, seawater may have poured into the engine room relying on only the automatic bilge pump to keep the water out. If the water ingress had been more than the bilge pump could discharge, the boat might have sunk (a very scary thought!).

I removed the manifold - no easy task, as it is buried behind the hoses, wires, and the cockpit scupper. The manifold appears to be made of bronze, but there was some external corrosion evident at the joint between the refrigerator connection and the main manifold tubing. It is likely that the corrosion is far worse inside the manifold, and that is hard to see when there is a lot of muck building up in the tubing. Very probably, the other nipples have similar corrosion issues inside.

So, I am now in the process of trying to replace the seawater manifold. I have 2 options: the first is to replace in kind, either custom built in a local fab shop or ordered through Amel; the second is to build one out of bronze fittings, pipe, and hose sections. I am not sure if any local shops can work with bronze, but I am investigating that possibility first. I am certain that Amel had these things built specifically for the A54 and maybe the SM or even the A55 - I am not sure if it is common to all models, but I question whether Amel could still source a replacement. The advantage to an in-kind replacement is that it would be a drop-in and also be smaller and lighter. The advantage to a manifold built from fittings is that I can install shut-off valves for each feed circuit, allowing me to isolate if there is a problem with one of the systems and retain the other systems in operation while I service the failed system. I like that concept the best, as many times I have to work on one of the feeders, while having to shut down everything to do it via the main in-line valve. By the way, that valve also looks suspect to me and I will be replacing it.

So, I am passing on my experience to the group as a reminder to check this manifold on a periodic basis. It is hard to see internal corrosion, but it is clear that even bronze will eventually fail. Phantom is now 13 years old, so maybe I was due for replacement. Has anyone else had this failure, and if so, what was your best solution to replace? Has anyone attempted to source from Amel?

Thanks,
Jamie Wendell
Phantom, A54 #44


--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

<IMG-20190520-WA0006.jpg>


Teun BAAS
 

Last paragraph Porter’s Email: attached is the part.

 

April/May 2018 it broke off completely on AMELIT; this is the replacement part I got from AMEL.

I noticed the new unit “sweating” & oxidizing rather quickly; it almost looked like 2 different metals were used. In July/August 2019, in VANUATU, checking & prepping the boat for the trip to the SOLOMONS, my local mechanic Matthieu & I decided to remove this unit completely and replace with a plastic (PVC???) self built unit which has been doing great with no “sweating” at all.

 

When I asked Thierry (AMEL SAV) this was his reply:

 

QUOTE

 

To answer your question this manifold is custom made by Amel . The welding between brass fitting and copper pipe is  carefully done and there is  no risk of leakage.

 

UNQUOTE

 

I have also been planning to redo everything along the A50/60 concept with individual shut off valves for each downstream line.

 

Best Regards Teun

SV AMELIT  A54  #128

 

I am stuck & bored and have been cruising on my motorcycle (March/April) all over BAJA CALIFORNIA 😊 😊 and since June in USA via magnificient State & National Parks on my way to ANNAPOLIS boatshow 😊

 

AMELIT is in storage on the hard in COOMERA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA and now watched by fellow AMEL owners Sue & Brian MITCHELL (SV LOLA)

August 27, 2020 16:20:07

 

USA cell: +1 832 477 8842

AUSTRALIA cell: +61 5951 8909

 

You can follow AMELIT via this link: https://forecast.predictwind.com/tracking/display/AMELIT

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Porter McRoberts via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2020 12:40
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Raw Water Manifold Failure - A54

 

This is indeed a serious issue. 

We had the initial bronze manifold on IBIS. Looked horrible and so when we ordered our arch from Turkey had a stainless replacement manifold constructed. About 2 years ago I changed the bronze one, with significant corrosion to the stainless replacement. One year after replacement upon inspection in NZ I found a small pit and a leak. It was in NZ that I had the resources to build a new manifold out of plastic. I had reservations about the material (plastic vs metal) but recall from an A55 that I believe the stock manifold is plastic on the A55. Encouraged by the chandlery in Opua I built a plastic one. It took a couple of days, a lot of measuring and 5200. I put in isolation valves. I think it is far better than the original. I’d encourage any others who have the resources of a nearby good plumbing chandlery to think about it. One of the very cool parts of the A55 is the ability to isolate and turn of seawater to specific downstream applications. (Don’t have to turn off the refrigerator to work on the AC pump)

 

I think we’re a lot safer now. I repaired the stainless manifold and keep as a spare, but would be lothe to return to it. 

 

Keep in mind there is another smaller manifold (of which we also keep a spare) starbord of the seachest that distributes to the main engine, and then to the distribution manifold via a (formerly iffy) looking hose. That manifold could also easily fail. Amel has replacements. 

 

Porter

 

 

Porter McRoberts 

S/V IBIS A54-152

WhatsApp:+1 754 265 2206



On Aug 27, 2020, at 3:38 AM, Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...> wrote:



Jamie,

 

I built a new one from off-the-shelf bronze fittings and a short piece of reinforced hose in the middle. Two years on and no problems, and it will be much easier to repair next time as it can be taken apart in the middle before pulling the parts out which is much easier than getting the original out.

 

I would also be interested if anyone else has adopted this solution and how long it has lasted.

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 - Grenada

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jamie Wendell
Sent: 27 August 2020 14:54
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Raw Water Manifold Failure - A54

 

I want to report a serious issue regarding the raw-water manifold that feeds the refrigerator, anchor wash, AC, and watermaker pumps on my A54. As I was servicing the sea chest strainer and cleaning out the clogged hoses, the nipple connection feeding the refrigerator pump broke off from the manifold. It actually appears to have been cracked already and was essentially sucking in some air with the cooling water. You can tell that when you hear a slight gurgling sound at the discharge thru-hull - initially I thought it was a pump problem related to insufficient cooling water through the main system strainer. Luckily I was on board at the time - if not, seawater may have poured into the engine room relying on only the automatic bilge pump to keep the water out. If the water ingress had been more than the bilge pump could discharge, the boat might have sunk (a very scary thought!).

I removed the manifold - no easy task, as it is buried behind the hoses, wires, and the cockpit scupper. The manifold appears to be made of bronze, but there was some external corrosion evident at the joint between the refrigerator connection and the main manifold tubing. It is likely that the corrosion is far worse inside the manifold, and that is hard to see when there is a lot of muck building up in the tubing. Very probably, the other nipples have similar corrosion issues inside.

So, I am now in the process of trying to replace the seawater manifold. I have 2 options: the first is to replace in kind, either custom built in a local fab shop or ordered through Amel; the second is to build one out of bronze fittings, pipe, and hose sections. I am not sure if any local shops can work with bronze, but I am investigating that possibility first. I am certain that Amel had these things built specifically for the A54 and maybe the SM or even the A55 - I am not sure if it is common to all models, but I question whether Amel could still source a replacement. The advantage to an in-kind replacement is that it would be a drop-in and also be smaller and lighter. The advantage to a manifold built from fittings is that I can install shut-off valves for each feed circuit, allowing me to isolate if there is a problem with one of the systems and retain the other systems in operation while I service the failed system. I like that concept the best, as many times I have to work on one of the feeders, while having to shut down everything to do it via the main in-line valve. By the way, that valve also looks suspect to me and I will be replacing it.

So, I am passing on my experience to the group as a reminder to check this manifold on a periodic basis. It is hard to see internal corrosion, but it is clear that even bronze will eventually fail. Phantom is now 13 years old, so maybe I was due for replacement. Has anyone else had this failure, and if so, what was your best solution to replace? Has anyone attempted to source from Amel?

Thanks,
Jamie Wendell
Phantom, A54 #44


--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98


Craig Briggs
 

In an engine room fire the plastic manifold would probably hold up as well as the two large diameter plastic pipes draining the cockpit that have no seacocks. Maybe better as the manifold is full of water.
As long as the fire doesn't burn your insurance agent's business card with his telephone number, you're likely ok.
Cheers


Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown
 

This makes me wonder how plastic in such a critical place would hold up to an engine room fire?

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 - Grenada

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Porter McRoberts via groups.io
Sent: 27 August 2020 21:40
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Raw Water Manifold Failure - A54

 

This is indeed a serious issue. 

We had the initial bronze manifold on IBIS. Looked horrible and so when we ordered our arch from Turkey had a stainless replacement manifold constructed. About 2 years ago I changed the bronze one, with significant corrosion to the stainless replacement. One year after replacement upon inspection in NZ I found a small pit and a leak. It was in NZ that I had the resources to build a new manifold out of plastic. I had reservations about the material (plastic vs metal) but recall from an A55 that I believe the stock manifold is plastic on the A55. Encouraged by the chandlery in Opua I built a plastic one. It took a couple of days, a lot of measuring and 5200. I put in isolation valves. I think it is far better than the original. I’d encourage any others who have the resources of a nearby good plumbing chandlery to think about it. One of the very cool parts of the A55 is the ability to isolate and turn of seawater to specific downstream applications. (Don’t have to turn off the refrigerator to work on the AC pump)

 

I think we’re a lot safer now. I repaired the stainless manifold and keep as a spare, but would be lothe to return to it. 

 

Keep in mind there is another smaller manifold (of which we also keep a spare) starbord of the seachest that distributes to the main engine, and then to the distribution manifold via a (formerly iffy) looking hose. That manifold could also easily fail. Amel has replacements. 

 

Porter

 

 

Porter McRoberts 

S/V IBIS A54-152

WhatsApp:+1 754 265 2206



On Aug 27, 2020, at 3:38 AM, Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...> wrote:



Jamie,

 

I built a new one from off-the-shelf bronze fittings and a short piece of reinforced hose in the middle. Two years on and no problems, and it will be much easier to repair next time as it can be taken apart in the middle before pulling the parts out which is much easier than getting the original out.

 

I would also be interested if anyone else has adopted this solution and how long it has lasted.

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 - Grenada

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jamie Wendell
Sent: 27 August 2020 14:54
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Raw Water Manifold Failure - A54

 

I want to report a serious issue regarding the raw-water manifold that feeds the refrigerator, anchor wash, AC, and watermaker pumps on my A54. As I was servicing the sea chest strainer and cleaning out the clogged hoses, the nipple connection feeding the refrigerator pump broke off from the manifold. It actually appears to have been cracked already and was essentially sucking in some air with the cooling water. You can tell that when you hear a slight gurgling sound at the discharge thru-hull - initially I thought it was a pump problem related to insufficient cooling water through the main system strainer. Luckily I was on board at the time - if not, seawater may have poured into the engine room relying on only the automatic bilge pump to keep the water out. If the water ingress had been more than the bilge pump could discharge, the boat might have sunk (a very scary thought!).

I removed the manifold - no easy task, as it is buried behind the hoses, wires, and the cockpit scupper. The manifold appears to be made of bronze, but there was some external corrosion evident at the joint between the refrigerator connection and the main manifold tubing. It is likely that the corrosion is far worse inside the manifold, and that is hard to see when there is a lot of muck building up in the tubing. Very probably, the other nipples have similar corrosion issues inside.

So, I am now in the process of trying to replace the seawater manifold. I have 2 options: the first is to replace in kind, either custom built in a local fab shop or ordered through Amel; the second is to build one out of bronze fittings, pipe, and hose sections. I am not sure if any local shops can work with bronze, but I am investigating that possibility first. I am certain that Amel had these things built specifically for the A54 and maybe the SM or even the A55 - I am not sure if it is common to all models, but I question whether Amel could still source a replacement. The advantage to an in-kind replacement is that it would be a drop-in and also be smaller and lighter. The advantage to a manifold built from fittings is that I can install shut-off valves for each feed circuit, allowing me to isolate if there is a problem with one of the systems and retain the other systems in operation while I service the failed system. I like that concept the best, as many times I have to work on one of the feeders, while having to shut down everything to do it via the main in-line valve. By the way, that valve also looks suspect to me and I will be replacing it.

So, I am passing on my experience to the group as a reminder to check this manifold on a periodic basis. It is hard to see internal corrosion, but it is clear that even bronze will eventually fail. Phantom is now 13 years old, so maybe I was due for replacement. Has anyone else had this failure, and if so, what was your best solution to replace? Has anyone attempted to source from Amel?

Thanks,
Jamie Wendell
Phantom, A54 #44


--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98


--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98


Porter McRoberts
 

This is indeed a serious issue. 
We had the initial bronze manifold on IBIS. Looked horrible and so when we ordered our arch from Turkey had a stainless replacement manifold constructed. About 2 years ago I changed the bronze one, with significant corrosion to the stainless replacement. One year after replacement upon inspection in NZ I found a small pit and a leak. It was in NZ that I had the resources to build a new manifold out of plastic. I had reservations about the material (plastic vs metal) but recall from an A55 that I believe the stock manifold is plastic on the A55. Encouraged by the chandlery in Opua I built a plastic one. It took a couple of days, a lot of measuring and 5200. I put in isolation valves. I think it is far better than the original. I’d encourage any others who have the resources of a nearby good plumbing chandlery to think about it. One of the very cool parts of the A55 is the ability to isolate and turn of seawater to specific downstream applications. (Don’t have to turn off the refrigerator to work on the AC pump)

I think we’re a lot safer now. I repaired the stainless manifold and keep as a spare, but would be lothe to return to it. 

Keep in mind there is another smaller manifold (of which we also keep a spare) starbord of the seachest that distributes to the main engine, and then to the distribution manifold via a (formerly iffy) looking hose. That manifold could also easily fail. Amel has replacements. 

Porter


Porter McRoberts 
S/V IBIS A54-152
WhatsApp:+1 754 265 2206
Www.fouribis.net

On Aug 27, 2020, at 3:38 AM, Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...> wrote:



Jamie,

 

I built a new one from off-the-shelf bronze fittings and a short piece of reinforced hose in the middle. Two years on and no problems, and it will be much easier to repair next time as it can be taken apart in the middle before pulling the parts out which is much easier than getting the original out.

 

I would also be interested if anyone else has adopted this solution and how long it has lasted.

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 - Grenada

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jamie Wendell
Sent: 27 August 2020 14:54
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Raw Water Manifold Failure - A54

 

I want to report a serious issue regarding the raw-water manifold that feeds the refrigerator, anchor wash, AC, and watermaker pumps on my A54. As I was servicing the sea chest strainer and cleaning out the clogged hoses, the nipple connection feeding the refrigerator pump broke off from the manifold. It actually appears to have been cracked already and was essentially sucking in some air with the cooling water. You can tell that when you hear a slight gurgling sound at the discharge thru-hull - initially I thought it was a pump problem related to insufficient cooling water through the main system strainer. Luckily I was on board at the time - if not, seawater may have poured into the engine room relying on only the automatic bilge pump to keep the water out. If the water ingress had been more than the bilge pump could discharge, the boat might have sunk (a very scary thought!).

I removed the manifold - no easy task, as it is buried behind the hoses, wires, and the cockpit scupper. The manifold appears to be made of bronze, but there was some external corrosion evident at the joint between the refrigerator connection and the main manifold tubing. It is likely that the corrosion is far worse inside the manifold, and that is hard to see when there is a lot of muck building up in the tubing. Very probably, the other nipples have similar corrosion issues inside.

So, I am now in the process of trying to replace the seawater manifold. I have 2 options: the first is to replace in kind, either custom built in a local fab shop or ordered through Amel; the second is to build one out of bronze fittings, pipe, and hose sections. I am not sure if any local shops can work with bronze, but I am investigating that possibility first. I am certain that Amel had these things built specifically for the A54 and maybe the SM or even the A55 - I am not sure if it is common to all models, but I question whether Amel could still source a replacement. The advantage to an in-kind replacement is that it would be a drop-in and also be smaller and lighter. The advantage to a manifold built from fittings is that I can install shut-off valves for each feed circuit, allowing me to isolate if there is a problem with one of the systems and retain the other systems in operation while I service the failed system. I like that concept the best, as many times I have to work on one of the feeders, while having to shut down everything to do it via the main in-line valve. By the way, that valve also looks suspect to me and I will be replacing it.

So, I am passing on my experience to the group as a reminder to check this manifold on a periodic basis. It is hard to see internal corrosion, but it is clear that even bronze will eventually fail. Phantom is now 13 years old, so maybe I was due for replacement. Has anyone else had this failure, and if so, what was your best solution to replace? Has anyone attempted to source from Amel?

Thanks,
Jamie Wendell
Phantom, A54 #44


--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98


Craig Briggs
 

Coincidentally, SAIL Magazine just posted an article on this exact subject with Tom Cunliffe's solution that I've copied below:

manifoldTip02
 

When I bought my boat it had 18 through-hull fittings. To reduce the number of holes in the hull (I ultimately cut them by half), I first re-plumbed the drain hoses from my sinks, scuppers, bilge pumps and shower sump so that they could share many fewer outlets. I then removed the remaining unused fittings, feathered back the holes inside and out with an angle grinder, and filled them by layering on a succession of round fiberglass patches of increasing diameter.

I also reduced the number of intake seacocks to just two—one for the engine’s raw-water intake and one that I plumbed to a manifold that services every other appliance that uses seawater. On my boat this includes the galley sink foot pump, the toilet intake, the watermaker, the deck wash-down pump and a short bilge sump wash-down hose. I made my manifold from off-the-shelf PVC tubes and valves and installed a sea strainer between the seacock and the manifold. It has functioned perfectly for six years now.

Note that if you install a simple manifold, as opposed to a sea chest, to service multiple systems, the through-hull must be large enough to meet the likely maximum demand. A sea chest, which has a tank (capacity is typically a gallon or more), can more easily accommodate surge loads when more than one system is drawing water at the same time. —Tom Cunliffe

--
SN68 Sangaris, Tropic Isle Harbor, FL


Jamie Wendell
 

Just an update. The original manifold on my A54 was actually copper and not bronze as I had originally thought. That explains the corrosion, since copper is lower on the galvanic scale than bronze, which is the more noble.

I am having a fabricator make up a new heavy-gauge 316 SS assembly with individual shut-off valves and a clean-out connection at the end to allow snaking in the future. Stainless may not be as good as bronze in an anaerobic environment, but I will probably be long gone before it fails I am sure. I thought about the fitting approach which would have allowed disassembly, but the original concept manifold is not that difficult to remove - if I ever have to again. I understand that stainless will likely be a bit heavier than copper, but I can deal with that.

I think others have provided good photos of the manifold, but I will be happy to send out pictures of my final installation if there is any interest in my approach.
Thanks,
Jamie
Phantom, A54 #44


Courtney Gorman
 

thanks!


-----Original Message-----
From: Ross Hickey & Donna Hammond via groups.io <southernadventurer@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io; paul.dowd@... <paul.dowd@...>
Sent: Thu, Aug 27, 2020 10:10 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Raw Water Manifold Failure - A54

Hi Jamie,

I just replaced ours that was 18 years old. The original was still good when I removed it and there was very little corrosion inside the manifold. I did not like the plastic hose fitting at the raw water intake end. I could have kept the original and reinstalled but decided since I had removed it that I would have a stainless steel one manufactured. I kept the old one for a spare although I am not likely to need it myself.

I had Emek marine in Gocek, Turkey build one as they have built the stainless manifolds for numerous Amels which also have a zinc anode in the end. The price and quality of work was very good.

Attached is a photo of the installed manifold.


Inline image



Kind regards
Ross Hickey
SV Intrepid Kiwi
SM2K #356
Currently in Turkey






Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Thursday, August 27, 2020, 4:47 pm, Courtney Gorman via groups.io <Itsfun1@...> wrote:
hi guys would one of you mind sharing some photos of the problem area and your solutions?
Cheers
Courtney
Trippin
54#101


-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Aug 27, 2020 9:39 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Raw Water Manifold Failure - A54

Jamie,
 
I built a new one from off-the-shelf bronze fittings and a short piece of reinforced hose in the middle. Two years on and no problems, and it will be much easier to repair next time as it can be taken apart in the middle before pulling the parts out which is much easier than getting the original out.
 
I would also be interested if anyone else has adopted this solution and how long it has lasted.
 
Cheers,
Paul
S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 - Grenada
 
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jamie Wendell
Sent: 27 August 2020 14:54
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Raw Water Manifold Failure - A54
 
I want to report a serious issue regarding the raw-water manifold that feeds the refrigerator, anchor wash, AC, and watermaker pumps on my A54. As I was servicing the sea chest strainer and cleaning out the clogged hoses, the nipple connection feeding the refrigerator pump broke off from the manifold. It actually appears to have been cracked already and was essentially sucking in some air with the cooling water. You can tell that when you hear a slight gurgling sound at the discharge thru-hull - initially I thought it was a pump problem related to insufficient cooling water through the main system strainer. Luckily I was on board at the time - if not, seawater may have poured into the engine room relying on only the automatic bilge pump to keep the water out. If the water ingress had been more than the bilge pump could discharge, the boat might have sunk (a very scary thought!).

I removed the manifold - no easy task, as it is buried behind the hoses, wires, and the cockpit scupper. The manifold appears to be made of bronze, but there was some external corrosion evident at the joint between the refrigerator connection and the main manifold tubing. It is likely that the corrosion is far worse inside the manifold, and that is hard to see when there is a lot of muck building up in the tubing. Very probably, the other nipples have similar corrosion issues inside.

So, I am now in the process of trying to replace the seawater manifold. I have 2 options: the first is to replace in kind, either custom built in a local fab shop or ordered through Amel; the second is to build one out of bronze fittings, pipe, and hose sections. I am not sure if any local shops can work with bronze, but I am investigating that possibility first. I am certain that Amel had these things built specifically for the A54 and maybe the SM or even the A55 - I am not sure if it is common to all models, but I question whether Amel could still source a replacement. The advantage to an in-kind replacement is that it would be a drop-in and also be smaller and lighter. The advantage to a manifold built from fittings is that I can install shut-off valves for each feed circuit, allowing me to isolate if there is a problem with one of the systems and retain the other systems in operation while I service the failed system. I like that concept the best, as many times I have to work on one of the feeders, while having to shut down everything to do it via the main in-line valve. By the way, that valve also looks suspect to me and I will be replacing it.

So, I am passing on my experience to the group as a reminder to check this manifold on a periodic basis. It is hard to see internal corrosion, but it is clear that even bronze will eventually fail. Phantom is now 13 years old, so maybe I was due for replacement. Has anyone else had this failure, and if so, what was your best solution to replace? Has anyone attempted to source from Amel?

Thanks,
Jamie Wendell
Phantom, A54 #44

--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98


Ross Hickey & Donna Hammond
 

Hi Jamie,

I just replaced ours that was 18 years old. The original was still good when I removed it and there was very little corrosion inside the manifold. I did not like the plastic hose fitting at the raw water intake end. I could have kept the original and reinstalled but decided since I had removed it that I would have a stainless steel one manufactured. I kept the old one for a spare although I am not likely to need it myself.

I had Emek marine in Gocek, Turkey build one as they have built the stainless manifolds for numerous Amels which also have a zinc anode in the end. The price and quality of work was very good.

Attached is a photo of the installed manifold.


Inline image



Kind regards
Ross Hickey
SV Intrepid Kiwi
SM2K #356
Currently in Turkey



On Thursday, August 27, 2020, 4:47 pm, Courtney Gorman via groups.io <Itsfun1@...> wrote:

hi guys would one of you mind sharing some photos of the problem area and your solutions?
Cheers
Courtney
Trippin
54#101


-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Aug 27, 2020 9:39 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Raw Water Manifold Failure - A54

Jamie,
 
I built a new one from off-the-shelf bronze fittings and a short piece of reinforced hose in the middle. Two years on and no problems, and it will be much easier to repair next time as it can be taken apart in the middle before pulling the parts out which is much easier than getting the original out.
 
I would also be interested if anyone else has adopted this solution and how long it has lasted.
 
Cheers,
Paul
S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 - Grenada
 
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jamie Wendell
Sent: 27 August 2020 14:54
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Raw Water Manifold Failure - A54
 
I want to report a serious issue regarding the raw-water manifold that feeds the refrigerator, anchor wash, AC, and watermaker pumps on my A54. As I was servicing the sea chest strainer and cleaning out the clogged hoses, the nipple connection feeding the refrigerator pump broke off from the manifold. It actually appears to have been cracked already and was essentially sucking in some air with the cooling water. You can tell that when you hear a slight gurgling sound at the discharge thru-hull - initially I thought it was a pump problem related to insufficient cooling water through the main system strainer. Luckily I was on board at the time - if not, seawater may have poured into the engine room relying on only the automatic bilge pump to keep the water out. If the water ingress had been more than the bilge pump could discharge, the boat might have sunk (a very scary thought!).

I removed the manifold - no easy task, as it is buried behind the hoses, wires, and the cockpit scupper. The manifold appears to be made of bronze, but there was some external corrosion evident at the joint between the refrigerator connection and the main manifold tubing. It is likely that the corrosion is far worse inside the manifold, and that is hard to see when there is a lot of muck building up in the tubing. Very probably, the other nipples have similar corrosion issues inside.

So, I am now in the process of trying to replace the seawater manifold. I have 2 options: the first is to replace in kind, either custom built in a local fab shop or ordered through Amel; the second is to build one out of bronze fittings, pipe, and hose sections. I am not sure if any local shops can work with bronze, but I am investigating that possibility first. I am certain that Amel had these things built specifically for the A54 and maybe the SM or even the A55 - I am not sure if it is common to all models, but I question whether Amel could still source a replacement. The advantage to an in-kind replacement is that it would be a drop-in and also be smaller and lighter. The advantage to a manifold built from fittings is that I can install shut-off valves for each feed circuit, allowing me to isolate if there is a problem with one of the systems and retain the other systems in operation while I service the failed system. I like that concept the best, as many times I have to work on one of the feeders, while having to shut down everything to do it via the main in-line valve. By the way, that valve also looks suspect to me and I will be replacing it.

So, I am passing on my experience to the group as a reminder to check this manifold on a periodic basis. It is hard to see internal corrosion, but it is clear that even bronze will eventually fail. Phantom is now 13 years old, so maybe I was due for replacement. Has anyone else had this failure, and if so, what was your best solution to replace? Has anyone attempted to source from Amel?

Thanks,
Jamie Wendell
Phantom, A54 #44

--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98


Ben and Gayle Super Maramu #347
 

Jamie 
I had same issue on my SM.  I sprung a leak while sailing - a small but persistent pin hole leak in manifold base between nipples.  I applied old standby - JB Weld - as temporary fix. When I arrived at Martinique, I had new one fabricated from stainless steel.  A local machine shop copied the original.  Several other SM owners did same. Boat was 14 years old at that time.  

Ben Driver
Formerly SM 347

On Aug 27, 2020, at 5:54 AM, Jamie Wendell <mysticshadow54@...> wrote:

I want to report a serious issue regarding the raw-water manifold that feeds the refrigerator, anchor wash, AC, and watermaker pumps on my A54. As I was servicing the sea chest strainer and cleaning out the clogged hoses, the nipple connection feeding the refrigerator pump broke off from the manifold. It actually appears to have been cracked already and was essentially sucking in some air with the cooling water. You can tell that when you hear a slight gurgling sound at the discharge thru-hull - initially I thought it was a pump problem related to insufficient cooling water through the main system strainer. Luckily I was on board at the time - if not, seawater may have poured into the engine room relying on only the automatic bilge pump to keep the water out. If the water ingress had been more than the bilge pump could discharge, the boat might have sunk (a very scary thought!).

I removed the manifold - no easy task, as it is buried behind the hoses, wires, and the cockpit scupper. The manifold appears to be made of bronze, but there was some external corrosion evident at the joint between the refrigerator connection and the main manifold tubing. It is likely that the corrosion is far worse inside the manifold, and that is hard to see when there is a lot of muck building up in the tubing. Very probably, the other nipples have similar corrosion issues inside.

So, I am now in the process of trying to replace the seawater manifold. I have 2 options: the first is to replace in kind, either custom built in a local fab shop or ordered through Amel; the second is to build one out of bronze fittings, pipe, and hose sections. I am not sure if any local shops can work with bronze, but I am investigating that possibility first. I am certain that Amel had these things built specifically for the A54 and maybe the SM or even the A55 - I am not sure if it is common to all models, but I question whether Amel could still source a replacement. The advantage to an in-kind replacement is that it would be a drop-in and also be smaller and lighter. The advantage to a manifold built from fittings is that I can install shut-off valves for each feed circuit, allowing me to isolate if there is a problem with one of the systems and retain the other systems in operation while I service the failed system. I like that concept the best, as many times I have to work on one of the feeders, while having to shut down everything to do it via the main in-line valve. By the way, that valve also looks suspect to me and I will be replacing it.

So, I am passing on my experience to the group as a reminder to check this manifold on a periodic basis. It is hard to see internal corrosion, but it is clear that even bronze will eventually fail. Phantom is now 13 years old, so maybe I was due for replacement. Has anyone else had this failure, and if so, what was your best solution to replace? Has anyone attempted to source from Amel?

Thanks,
Jamie Wendell
Phantom, A54 #44


Courtney Gorman
 

hi guys would one of you mind sharing some photos of the problem area and your solutions?
Cheers
Courtney
Trippin
54#101


-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Aug 27, 2020 9:39 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Raw Water Manifold Failure - A54

Jamie,
 
I built a new one from off-the-shelf bronze fittings and a short piece of reinforced hose in the middle. Two years on and no problems, and it will be much easier to repair next time as it can be taken apart in the middle before pulling the parts out which is much easier than getting the original out.
 
I would also be interested if anyone else has adopted this solution and how long it has lasted.
 
Cheers,
Paul
S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 - Grenada
 
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jamie Wendell
Sent: 27 August 2020 14:54
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Raw Water Manifold Failure - A54
 
I want to report a serious issue regarding the raw-water manifold that feeds the refrigerator, anchor wash, AC, and watermaker pumps on my A54. As I was servicing the sea chest strainer and cleaning out the clogged hoses, the nipple connection feeding the refrigerator pump broke off from the manifold. It actually appears to have been cracked already and was essentially sucking in some air with the cooling water. You can tell that when you hear a slight gurgling sound at the discharge thru-hull - initially I thought it was a pump problem related to insufficient cooling water through the main system strainer. Luckily I was on board at the time - if not, seawater may have poured into the engine room relying on only the automatic bilge pump to keep the water out. If the water ingress had been more than the bilge pump could discharge, the boat might have sunk (a very scary thought!).

I removed the manifold - no easy task, as it is buried behind the hoses, wires, and the cockpit scupper. The manifold appears to be made of bronze, but there was some external corrosion evident at the joint between the refrigerator connection and the main manifold tubing. It is likely that the corrosion is far worse inside the manifold, and that is hard to see when there is a lot of muck building up in the tubing. Very probably, the other nipples have similar corrosion issues inside.

So, I am now in the process of trying to replace the seawater manifold. I have 2 options: the first is to replace in kind, either custom built in a local fab shop or ordered through Amel; the second is to build one out of bronze fittings, pipe, and hose sections. I am not sure if any local shops can work with bronze, but I am investigating that possibility first. I am certain that Amel had these things built specifically for the A54 and maybe the SM or even the A55 - I am not sure if it is common to all models, but I question whether Amel could still source a replacement. The advantage to an in-kind replacement is that it would be a drop-in and also be smaller and lighter. The advantage to a manifold built from fittings is that I can install shut-off valves for each feed circuit, allowing me to isolate if there is a problem with one of the systems and retain the other systems in operation while I service the failed system. I like that concept the best, as many times I have to work on one of the feeders, while having to shut down everything to do it via the main in-line valve. By the way, that valve also looks suspect to me and I will be replacing it.

So, I am passing on my experience to the group as a reminder to check this manifold on a periodic basis. It is hard to see internal corrosion, but it is clear that even bronze will eventually fail. Phantom is now 13 years old, so maybe I was due for replacement. Has anyone else had this failure, and if so, what was your best solution to replace? Has anyone attempted to source from Amel?

Thanks,
Jamie Wendell
Phantom, A54 #44

--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98