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Rudder Stuffing Box Packing Material

Paul Stascavage
 

Thanks you too all who contributed to assisting me with this project.

Just a few notes here to possibly help others dealing with this project in the future.

To clean the rudder post of rust and salt deposits, I took a 2 inch piece of schedule 40 PVC and using contact cement, I glued a small piece of fine sandpaper to the inside of the pipe.  This did a great job cleaning up the post and allowed me to work on the post without touching the gland threads.  I did this before removing the old packing so as to prevent most of the dust from getting into the gland.

As a side note, I use a similar procedure when cleaning the salt deposits out of the c-drive cavity before installing new seals except I zip tie the sandpaper to the outside surface of the PVC pipe.

After pulling out the old packing, I found some of the threads of the gland brittle and damaged with some remnants of some threads at the bottom of the gland.  I am fairly certain that the damage occurred merely from the friction of the packing material rubbing against the threads as it was removed.  I was quite careful with the screws and the Palmetto 1101 Packing Extractor to make sure I was not near the threads.  One of fiberglass guys in the yard used thickened west system epoxy, west 403, 404, and cab-o-sil to beef up threads.  He waxed the packing nut and installed it as a mold.  We let it cure for 4 days.  It worked great.

To cut the new packing material, I started with a short piece of 2 inch schedule 80 PVC.  I had a machine shop mill about 3 inches of the end of the pipe down to 50 mm diameter (the same as the rudder post) and used this to size and cut the packing material that is supplied by AMEL but is no longer cut to size.  It was easier than trying to do it on the post itself.

The new packing material went in easy with grease.  I tapped each piece down with a 1/4 in wooden dowel and then with the 2 inch piece of schedule 40 PVC pipe.

We launched yesterday and so far no leaks.  We will see what happens when we set sail in a couple weeks.

Again, a big thank you to all for their input.  The knowledge of the members of this forum and their willingness to share such is truly awesome.

All the best,

Paul Stascavage
SM #466 - s/v Rita Kathryn
Severn Yachting Center - Hayes, VA


www.RitaKathryn.com
rossirossix4
 

Hi Mike,
The Amel packing is impregnated with what looks like PTEF.  Professionals I have talked with recommend some kind of grease.  It helps seal and helps you slide the packing into the gap effectively.  Any excess will be forced out when you tighten the nut down.  Some owners have been challenged with seating 3 layers of the material.  We have had good luck with Starbrite White PTEF Lubricant which we have aboard and use for many things.  If you have easy access to it..... http://www.starbrite.com/item/white-ptef-lubricant
Bob and Suzanne, KAIMI  SM429
Mike Longcor (SV Trilogy)
 

Should any grease be used when packing in the new material from Amel?

Cheers,
Mike Longcor
SV Trilogy SM23

On Sat, Nov 14, 2020, 6:54 PM James Alton via groups.io <lokiyawl2=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Paul,

   I wonder if you might have had a deteriorated old style flax packing in your stuffing box?  That material will break down and become weak over time so does tend to break into pcs.  If you use a modern fiber packing I think that you will find that the packing rings will come out in one pc. as it is quite strong.   I am glad to hear that the specialty tool worked better for you. 

James
SV Sueno
Maramu #220

On Nov 13, 2020, at 5:33 PM, Paul Stascavage via groups.io <pstas2003@...> wrote:

James,

I used your suggestion to get the majority of the second ring removed.  It worked, but it was a slow and tedious process as the material was only coming out in pieces,

Dan,

Thank you for referring me to the Palmetto 1101 tool.  I used it today to remove the last 25% of the second ring as well as the third ring.  What took me a few hours was accomplished today in about 15 minutes with this tool.  I highly recommend it.

All the best,

Paul Stascavage
SM #466 - s/v Rita Kathryn
On The Hard - Severn Yachting Center - Hayes, VA

James Alton
 

Paul,

   I wonder if you might have had a deteriorated old style flax packing in your stuffing box?  That material will break down and become weak over time so does tend to break into pcs.  If you use a modern fiber packing I think that you will find that the packing rings will come out in one pc. as it is quite strong.   I am glad to hear that the specialty tool worked better for you. 

James
SV Sueno
Maramu #220

On Nov 13, 2020, at 5:33 PM, Paul Stascavage via groups.io <pstas2003@...> wrote:

James,

I used your suggestion to get the majority of the second ring removed.  It worked, but it was a slow and tedious process as the material was only coming out in pieces,

Dan,

Thank you for referring me to the Palmetto 1101 tool.  I used it today to remove the last 25% of the second ring as well as the third ring.  What took me a few hours was accomplished today in about 15 minutes with this tool.  I highly recommend it.

All the best,

Paul Stascavage
SM #466 - s/v Rita Kathryn
On The Hard - Severn Yachting Center - Hayes, VA

Paul Stascavage
 

James,

I used your suggestion to get the majority of the second ring removed.  It worked, but it was a slow and tedious process as the material was only coming out in pieces,

Dan,

Thank you for referring me to the Palmetto 1101 tool.  I used it today to remove the last 25% of the second ring as well as the third ring.  What took me a few hours was accomplished today in about 15 minutes with this tool.  I highly recommend it.

All the best,

Paul Stascavage
SM #466 - s/v Rita Kathryn
On The Hard - Severn Yachting Center - Hayes, VA
Dan Carlson
 

If you are in the land of Amazon we ordered and used this little tool.



Best Regards, Daniel and Lori Carlson on sv BeBe SM #387

On Sun, Nov 8, 2020, 3:28 PM Paul Stascavage via groups.io <pstas2003=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Good day all,

I’m having difficulty removing the old packing material.  I was successful getting the top ring out albeit with much difficulty, but I can’t seem to make much headway with the second ring and I imagine the last one will be even more difficult.

I am using a straight pick to loosen the adherence of the material around the perimeter of the rudder post, but the hook picks I am using to try to remove the material are bending and breaking.

I am trying to be careful so as not to damage the threads for the lock not and wondering if anyone has any tricks or suggestions.

Thanking respondents in advance for their time and wisdom.


All the best,

Paul Stascavage
SM #466 - s/v Rita Kathryn
On The Hard - Severn Yachting Center - Hayes, VA
James Alton
 

Paul,

  I am assuming that you are pulling packing from a bronze stuffing box?  If so, I normally use about a long #8 deck screw that will easily thread into the packing.  Only run it maybe 1/2-2/3  of the way into the packing and keep the screw centered as best you can.  Then using vice grips clamped to the head of the screw, pull with force parallel to the walls of the packing grove.  It helps a lot if you pull from a position that is close to the butt end of a packing ring so if the packing seems reluctant, just try and different location.  

Best,

James Alton
SV Sueno
Maramu #220

On Nov 8, 2020, at 2:28 PM, Paul Stascavage via groups.io <pstas2003@...> wrote:

Good day all,

I’m having difficulty removing the old packing material.  I was successful getting the top ring out albeit with much difficulty, but I can’t seem to make much headway with the second ring and I imagine the last one will be even more difficult.

I am using a straight pick to loosen the adherence of the material around the perimeter of the rudder post, but the hook picks I am using to try to remove the material are bending and breaking.

I am trying to be careful so as not to damage the threads for the lock not and wondering if anyone has any tricks or suggestions.

Thanking respondents in advance for their time and wisdom.


All the best,

Paul Stascavage
SM #466 - s/v Rita Kathryn
On The Hard - Severn Yachting Center - Hayes, VA
Paul Stascavage
 

Good day all,

I’m having difficulty removing the old packing material.  I was successful getting the top ring out albeit with much difficulty, but I can’t seem to make much headway with the second ring and I imagine the last one will be even more difficult.

I am using a straight pick to loosen the adherence of the material around the perimeter of the rudder post, but the hook picks I am using to try to remove the material are bending and breaking.

I am trying to be careful so as not to damage the threads for the lock not and wondering if anyone has any tricks or suggestions.

Thanking respondents in advance for their time and wisdom.


All the best,

Paul Stascavage
SM #466 - s/v Rita Kathryn
On The Hard - Severn Yachting Center - Hayes, VA
Alan Leslie
 

The shaft being 50mm in diameter means the circumference of the SHAFT is 157.08mm. 
The packing has to occupy the space between the shaft and the housing.
Given that the packing is 8mm, the actual length of the packing at the housing side would be about 207mm
If you cut your packing to 157.08 mm (good luck with that) I think you'll find it a bit short.  
The BEST way to do it is to wrap the packing around the shaft (or some other 50mm mandrill) and cut through it diagonally.
That way you get an almost perfect fit which will completely seal when it is compressed by the nut bearing down on it.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437
Paul Stascavage
 

I haven’t gotten that far yet Bill.

Currently working on cleaning everything up.

I will report back when I do.

All the best,

Paul Stascavage
SM #466 - s/v Rita Kathryn
On The Hard - Severn Yachting Center - Hayes, VA
CW Bill Rouse
 

Paul,

I assume that you tested the fit?
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Tue, Nov 3, 2020 at 7:50 AM Paul Stascavage via groups.io <pstas2003=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Bill R,

The diameter of the Rudder Shaft Post measured exactly 50 mm using a digital caliper which means the circumference should be 157.08 mm

The wealth of information on this forum never ceases to amaze me.

Thank you all for your knowledgeable and detailed responses.

All the best,

Paul Stascavage
SM #466 - s/v Rita Kathryn
On The Hard - Severn Yachting Center - Hayes, VA


www.RitaKathryn.com

Paul Stascavage
 

Bill R,

The diameter of the Rudder Shaft Post measured exactly 50 mm using a digital caliper which means the circumference should be 157.08 mm

The wealth of information on this forum never ceases to amaze me.

Thank you all for your knowledgeable and detailed responses.

All the best,

Paul Stascavage
SM #466 - s/v Rita Kathryn
On The Hard - Severn Yachting Center - Hayes, VA


www.RitaKathryn.com
CW Bill Rouse
 

Dan,

According to Alban in Martinique, when new packing is installed, you will likely have to tighten in 30-60 days.

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 8:21 AM Dan Carlson <carlsdan61@...> wrote:
That is what I received from Amel last month as well. 

I cut to length with diagonal cuts. Installed each piece offset about 120 degrees. Carefully pounding each piece down around the shaft.

Based on some other information I was very careful when tightening the ring back down to make sure that I did not strip out the threads. 

A few days of motorsailing down the calm Chesepeake and so far no drips. Will keep checking as we go offshore next. 

Best regards, Daniel and Lori Carlson on sv BeBe, SM #387



On Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 5:15 PM Paul Stascavage via groups.io <pstas2003=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Good day all,

I recently ordered the packing material from AMEL.

I specifically requested:

"Quantity 2 - Package of 3 rings of packing material for the Rudder Post"

What I received was two individual lengths of material (70 cm each) - see attached photo.

My question is,  has AMEL switched to 1 piece of material rather than 3 or did I only receive 2 of the 3 rings?

I am hoping someone will be able to answer the question based on the length of material supplied (70 cm).

Thanks in advance for your replies.

All the best,

Paul Stascavage
SM #466 - s/v Rita Kathryn
On The Hard - Severn Yachting Center - Hayes, VA


www.RitaKathryn.com
Dan Carlson
 

That is what I received from Amel last month as well. 

I cut to length with diagonal cuts. Installed each piece offset about 120 degrees. Carefully pounding each piece down around the shaft.

Based on some other information I was very careful when tightening the ring back down to make sure that I did not strip out the threads. 

A few days of motorsailing down the calm Chesepeake and so far no drips. Will keep checking as we go offshore next. 

Best regards, Daniel and Lori Carlson on sv BeBe, SM #387



On Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 5:15 PM Paul Stascavage via groups.io <pstas2003=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Good day all,

I recently ordered the packing material from AMEL.

I specifically requested:

"Quantity 2 - Package of 3 rings of packing material for the Rudder Post"

What I received was two individual lengths of material (70 cm each) - see attached photo.

My question is,  has AMEL switched to 1 piece of material rather than 3 or did I only receive 2 of the 3 rings?

I am hoping someone will be able to answer the question based on the length of material supplied (70 cm).

Thanks in advance for your replies.

All the best,

Paul Stascavage
SM #466 - s/v Rita Kathryn
On The Hard - Severn Yachting Center - Hayes, VA


www.RitaKathryn.com
CW Bill Rouse
 

Eric,

I spoke to Amel. Yes, it has always come precut, but with some people recently retiring, some bits of previous and undocumented experience was lost. The new people did not have the correct length. I believe it is totally understandable and that we have been somewhat spoiled. I was also told by Amel SAV that the material is 8mmx8mm  or 5/16’’.

I asked Paul to use the formula Length = (diameter * pi) and to test this formula with a correct fit. When Paul has tested this, either Paul or I will post it here.

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sun, Nov 1, 2020 at 9:05 PM eric freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:
Did you speak with Amel and ask why the packing did not come in precut?
For the last 18 years mine was always precut.
Fair Winds,
Eric
SM 376 Kimberite

On November 1, 2020 at 2:45 PM "Paul Stascavage via groups.io" <pstas2003=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Eric, Bill, Danny, and Jarek,

Thank you for your replies.

I guess I’m going to have to cut the rings myself.

If anyone has any additional advice, I would greatly appreciate it.

All the best,

Paul Stascavage
SM #466 - s/v Rita Kathryn
On The Hard - Severn Yachting Center - Hayes, VA


www.RitaKathryn.com

 

Olaf Bauer
 

Hi Paul,

 

Here is how I did it:

 

For the shaft packing  I used 70cm of PTFE Flax shaft packing 5/16” which have to cut into three pieces. Cut the corners at an angle for a better sealing.

I never remember the length of each part but you can use the old packings or the hole for measurement.

When installing the new packing coat them with silicon grease.

 

 

When taking into place be sure that the cuts are as fare away from each other for better sealing:

See also https://amelyachtowners.groups.io/g/main/files/AMEL%20SM2K%20Rudder%20Removal

 

 

Fair winds

Olaf

 

S/V Katchopine, SM2K 392

currently in Trinidad

 

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul Stascavage via groups.io
Sent: Samstag, 31. Oktober 2020 17:15
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Rudder Stuffing Box Packing Material

 

Good day all,

I recently ordered the packing material from AMEL.

I specifically requested:

"Quantity 2 - Package of 3 rings of packing material for the Rudder Post"

What I received was two individual lengths of material (70 cm each) - see attached photo.

My question is,  has AMEL switched to 1 piece of material rather than 3 or did I only receive 2 of the 3 rings?

I am hoping someone will be able to answer the question based on the length of material supplied (70 cm).

Thanks in advance for your replies.

All the best,

Paul Stascavage
SM #466 - s/v Rita Kathryn
On The Hard - Severn Yachting Center - Hayes, VA


www.RitaKathryn.com
eric freedman
 

Did you speak with Amel and ask why the packing did not come in precut?
For the last 18 years mine was always precut.
Fair Winds,
Eric
SM 376 Kimberite

On November 1, 2020 at 2:45 PM "Paul Stascavage via groups.io" <pstas2003@...> wrote:

Eric, Bill, Danny, and Jarek,

Thank you for your replies.

I guess I’m going to have to cut the rings myself.

If anyone has any additional advice, I would greatly appreciate it.

All the best,

Paul Stascavage
SM #466 - s/v Rita Kathryn
On The Hard - Severn Yachting Center - Hayes, VA


www.RitaKathryn.com

 

Germain Jean-Pierre
 

Hello Paul,

It’s an easy task; arm yourself with a very sharp knife. Remove all the old packing. (I use a dental pick) Wrap the new material around the rudder shaft and cut diagonally at about 1 mm longer than needed. With a wooden block of suitable size (no wider than the groove), tamp down the first layer.  Add Teflon grease atop this first layer.  Do the same for the second layer ensuring the cut is 120 degrees away from the first cut.  

Idem. For 3rd layer.

Install the white nylon nut and tighten accordingly.  Sea trial when able… retighten if needed.


Jean-Pierre Germain,Eleuthera, SM007 New Zealand



On 2 Nov 2020, at 08:45, Paul Stascavage via groups.io <pstas2003@...> wrote:

Eric, Bill, Danny, and Jarek,

Thank you for your replies.

I guess I’m going to have to cut the rings myself.

If anyone has any additional advice, I would greatly appreciate it.

All the best,

Paul Stascavage
SM #466 - s/v Rita Kathryn
On The Hard - Severn Yachting Center - Hayes, VA


www.RitaKathryn.com

Karen Smith
 

The exact metric size packing that Amel ships can be the very devil to source in the US, but the closest inch size works fine. If I recall Amel supplies 8mm packing, and 5/16 inch packing is within 1% of that.  But measure before you buy, my memory isn't 100% on 8mm or 10mm...

Far better to cut by wrapping it around the shaft than to do it by measure.  If you do perfectly square cuts on a length of packing exactly equal to the shaft OD, the cuts will gap apart on the outside of the packing with is significantly longer in circumference than the shaft.

Bill
Harmonie
SM160
Annapolis, MD.
Alan Leslie
 

You can buy stuffing box packing from any decent chandler, it's not Amel specific. 
We did ours 7 years ago and it hasn't leaked since.
Agree with Danny, used the shaft as a template, cut diagonally and it doesn't have to be dead on accurate, insert the three rings so the cuts are 120 degrees off from each other and you will have no problems.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437
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