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A54 bow thruster seal replacement?


 

Only 1 lip seal. And some 54s have had a total of 3 foam seals (2 outside and 1 inside). I am not sure which is correct. On at least one occasion SAV shipped a 54 owner 3 foam seals. When I have been involved, I use the same number of foam seals outside that were on the bow thruster when we started. Most of the time it was 1 outside and 1 inside. This confusion might be because the SM takes 2 foam seals outside and 1 foam seal inside.

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Fri, Dec 18, 2020 at 10:31 PM Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
We finally got it out. The Amel diagram shows two foam seals and two lip seals. We found the two foam seals but only one lip seal.

Did you all find one lip seal or two? 

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Scott SV Tengah
 

We finally got it out. The Amel diagram shows two foam seals and two lip seals. We found the two foam seals but only one lip seal.

Did you all find one lip seal or two? 

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Scott SV Tengah
 

Dean,

When I was troubleshooting my 1 year old replacement BT motor, those were the words out of the mouth of the lead tech at Sleipner USA (IMTRA). They had some trouble with lifepo4 equipped boats because they designed it to operate at much lower voltage than the lifepo4 batteries provided under load. Perhaps they were trying to get out of warranty work, but that's what they stated. Turns out my trouble was something else, btw.

Regarding the shutoff switch, apparently newer A54s came with an emergency shutoff switch in the bow locker. Olivier suggested in his survey that I install one. I did a bit of asking around and my understanding is there was an A54 that had the solenoids melt closed (probably due to high amperage as a result of low voltage) and thereafter it was recommended that you have the emergency shutoff switch and run the genset and chargers when you're using the BT. It was third hand, but I also definitely have read, more than once, the recommendation to run the genset/chargers in docking operations.

I had the Sleipner shutoff switch but it's not that waterproof and quickly failed in that sometimes wet bow locker. I now have three 450A fuses, one for each pair of batteries, installed.  I also have a third battery switch at the passage berth dedicated to turning off the BT power in an emergency.

On Mon, Dec 14, 2020 at 5:22 PM Dean Gillies <stella@...> wrote:
Hi Scott,

On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 11:53 AM, Scott SV Tengah wrote:
That said, lower than 22v is very plausible with normal batteries.
In an Amel, yes, but not always.
A fully charged 115Ah AGM (such as Rolls S12-128AGM) will deliver 67A for two minutes while retaining terminal voltage above 12V.  Put 12 of these in a 2S6P arrangement and you get 400A at 24V. That's almost 10kW delivered to the cable with terminal voltage above 24V. In an Amel the voltage drop at 400A would be around 2V, hence 22V delivered to the BT. However, in a boat where the batteries are located close to the BT, then the voltage drop in the cable can be much less, so the delivered voltage to the BT will be much closer to 24V. 

I find it difficult to believe Sleipner would produce a "24V" BT which does not operate reliably if powered with 24V which is exactly what LIthium batteries would provide in an Amel cabling setup.

Btw I didn't quite understand ... why (and where) did Amel ask you to install a shut off switch? I understand there is no breaker/fusing on the BT cables, which is interesting in itself.

Cheers, Dean
SV Stella A54-154


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Dean Gillies
 

Hi Scott,

On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 11:53 AM, Scott SV Tengah wrote:
That said, lower than 22v is very plausible with normal batteries.
In an Amel, yes, but not always.
A fully charged 115Ah AGM (such as Rolls S12-128AGM) will deliver 67A for two minutes while retaining terminal voltage above 12V.  Put 12 of these in a 2S6P arrangement and you get 400A at 24V. That's almost 10kW delivered to the cable with terminal voltage above 24V. In an Amel the voltage drop at 400A would be around 2V, hence 22V delivered to the BT. However, in a boat where the batteries are located close to the BT, then the voltage drop in the cable can be much less, so the delivered voltage to the BT will be much closer to 24V. 

I find it difficult to believe Sleipner would produce a "24V" BT which does not operate reliably if powered with 24V which is exactly what LIthium batteries would provide in an Amel cabling setup.

Btw I didn't quite understand ... why (and where) did Amel ask you to install a shut off switch? I understand there is no breaker/fusing on the BT cables, which is interesting in itself.

Cheers, Dean
SV Stella A54-154


Scott SV Tengah
 

Dean, 


I agree that at higher voltages, current should just go down. 

That said, lower than 22v is very plausible with normal batteries. Put that big of a load on even a big lead acid bank and I would expect a big voltage drop. 

Amel suggested I add the emergency shut off switch. I believe it's for that reason. 


On Mon, Dec 14, 2020, 14:32 Dean Gillies <stella@...> wrote:
On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 04:07 AM, Scott SV Tengah wrote:
Sleipner said that they spec theirs to expect 21-22 volts or thereabouts under load and we are closer to 24.5-25
Scott, that's an interesting point.  
The cabling to the BT is 70sqmm (according to Amel drawings), and the run must be about 10m or so?  The voltage drop in the cable at say 360A (8kW@24V) will be about 1.5V, plus a bit for connections and internal resistance of the battery. So the voltage will definitely be higher than 22V, but should be less than 24V.  However, I don't believe the BT will be damaged in any way by a 24V drive. It should just take less current.   Don't forget that many (most?) BT installations have dedicated LA batteries in close proximity, with minimal voltage drop in cabling. Amel's are a little unusual in having the batteries so far away from the BT.  If the Sleipner product did not work properly at 24V I would be very surprised. I suspect their comment reflects their view that it will "still work" down at those voltages rather than not working at 24V.

Lithium is still on my mind!
Cheers
Dean
SV Stella A54-154
 


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Dean Gillies
 

On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 04:07 AM, Scott SV Tengah wrote:
Sleipner said that they spec theirs to expect 21-22 volts or thereabouts under load and we are closer to 24.5-25
Scott, that's an interesting point.  
The cabling to the BT is 70sqmm (according to Amel drawings), and the run must be about 10m or so?  The voltage drop in the cable at say 360A (8kW@24V) will be about 1.5V, plus a bit for connections and internal resistance of the battery. So the voltage will definitely be higher than 22V, but should be less than 24V.  However, I don't believe the BT will be damaged in any way by a 24V drive. It should just take less current.   Don't forget that many (most?) BT installations have dedicated LA batteries in close proximity, with minimal voltage drop in cabling. Amel's are a little unusual in having the batteries so far away from the BT.  If the Sleipner product did not work properly at 24V I would be very surprised. I suspect their comment reflects their view that it will "still work" down at those voltages rather than not working at 24V.

Lithium is still on my mind!
Cheers
Dean
SV Stella A54-154
 


 

Yes, using a piece of the right size steel bar. It was a lot of pressure with a mechanical puller.
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 11:24 PM Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
Ok, we're now digging into it and here's where we're stuck:

We removed the two large bolts that go into the shaft and it seems the shaft does not want to drop even after some copious PB Blaster. Are we missing something or is it just that the lower unit / motor junction is heavily corroded? 

Bill - did you remove the motor and use a puller to apply force directly to the shaft itself? The mechanic working with me is a bit afraid to put too much force on the shaft itself.

Thanks!

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Scott SV Tengah
 

Perfect. I remember seeing photos before but couldn't remember where. Your pics and Bill's pics help immensely. 

Thank you. 

As an aside - our flexible coupling cracked after about 2 years. Did you have the same issue? 

Our bow thruster is much more powerful after the lithium upgrade because there is almost no voltage drop. Sleipner said that they spec theirs to expect 21-22 volts or thereabouts under load and we are closer to 24.5-25.

This may be a hidden "disadvantage" of lithium. 

On Mon, Dec 14, 2020, 00:25 Peter Tiner <peter.tiner@...> wrote:
Hi

If I understand you right you are about to take the lower part out. If so you need to put pressure onto the pipe and not onto the shaft. Use a thick walled pipe and a plate on top of that and then place the puller bolt onto the plate leaving the shaft untouched.
Please also see thread "Bow thruster motor switch" #54459.  There are some pics there and if you like I can send you more.
Good luck!

\Peter sy Maiken A54 #52


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Peter Tiner
 

Hi

If I understand you right you are about to take the lower part out. If so you need to put pressure onto the pipe and not onto the shaft. Use a thick walled pipe and a plate on top of that and then place the puller bolt onto the plate leaving the shaft untouched.
Please also see thread "Bow thruster motor switch" #54459.  There are some pics there and if you like I can send you more.
Good luck!

\Peter sy Maiken A54 #52


Scott SV Tengah
 

Ok, we're now digging into it and here's where we're stuck:

We removed the two large bolts that go into the shaft and it seems the shaft does not want to drop even after some copious PB Blaster. Are we missing something or is it just that the lower unit / motor junction is heavily corroded? 

Bill - did you remove the motor and use a puller to apply force directly to the shaft itself? The mechanic working with me is a bit afraid to put too much force on the shaft itself.

Thanks!

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Scott SV Tengah
 

Thanks everyone - very helpful.
--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


 

I have done this job several times, but each time the 54 never had the seals replaced since new. 

The issue I ran into was getting the lower unit separated from the motor. I had to seek out a sizeable puller. 

I believe that if you are going to do this that in addition to the parts you have from Amel, you will also want to buy a new flexible coupling. It is likely that you have the original two-piece Flexible Coupling. It has been replaced by the Side-Power One-Piece Flexible Coupling for SE120 Through SE170 Thrusters (3"X2 3/8"X3"). There was no issue with fit.

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Fri, Nov 27, 2020 at 11:47 AM Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...> wrote:

Hi Scott;

 

We did replace the seals in 2018 at the Manoel Yard in Malta. We did not have any issues either, but had the seals and the yard replaced them for us. Typically I personally watch any work being done on Kokomo and never have anyone do any work without my own presence. This was one of the jobs that I had to check in on, once in a while, as we had multiple items being worked on at the same time. So, I do not have a good recollection of the steps required.

 

Is there a specific question? I may have the answer or be able to reach out to the yard and get you what you need.

 

Happy Sailing;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

AMEL 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Scott SV Tengah via groups.io
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2020 9:28 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] A54 bow thruster seal replacement?

 

Has anyone replaced their bow thruster seals on the 54?

We are on the hard and have the parts on hand but the boat yard declined the project so I may have to give it a go myself. 

Anyone try this? We aren't leaking there but since amel suggested to do it every few years, I was considering tackling it now that we're in the air. 


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Mohammad Shirloo
 

Hi Scott;

 

We did replace the seals in 2018 at the Manoel Yard in Malta. We did not have any issues either, but had the seals and the yard replaced them for us. Typically I personally watch any work being done on Kokomo and never have anyone do any work without my own presence. This was one of the jobs that I had to check in on, once in a while, as we had multiple items being worked on at the same time. So, I do not have a good recollection of the steps required.

 

Is there a specific question? I may have the answer or be able to reach out to the yard and get you what you need.

 

Happy Sailing;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

AMEL 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Scott SV Tengah via groups.io
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2020 9:28 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] A54 bow thruster seal replacement?

 

Has anyone replaced their bow thruster seals on the 54?

We are on the hard and have the parts on hand but the boat yard declined the project so I may have to give it a go myself. 

Anyone try this? We aren't leaking there but since amel suggested to do it every few years, I was considering tackling it now that we're in the air. 


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Scott SV Tengah
 

Has anyone replaced their bow thruster seals on the 54?

We are on the hard and have the parts on hand but the boat yard declined the project so I may have to give it a go myself. 

Anyone try this? We aren't leaking there but since amel suggested to do it every few years, I was considering tackling it now that we're in the air. 


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com