3 topics Smart Regulator Hydronic diesel heater


JEFFREY KRAUS
 

Good Morning Amelians,
I hope this message finds everyone well and happy throughout the globe.
I'm looking to install a smart external regulator. 
I'm looking into 2 currently.
a. wakespeed 500   Another Amel owner has installed this unit with good results, and I'm awaiting more information on it and it's installation.
b. ZM5  I recently got a return email from the company (located in New Zealand). Information pending.
Has anyone had any experience with the ZM?

I'm looking to install a diesel heater aboard.
I'm giving serious consideration to a hydronic system. One aspect of a hydronic system is that it can heat the boat without the heater operating while the engine is running, with the engine coolant circulating and providing the heat to the fan units, If anyone has used a bus heater, that's how it works. Without the engine on, the diesel heater warms the coolant in the lines. The engine, heater, AND the hot water system are in series, so one has the luxury of heating your hot water while the diesel heater is running also.
The particular system I'm focusing on is a Webasto 2010s.
It can have up to 4 fan/zones. I would install 1 in the main cabin, 1 in forward cabin, 1 in masters cabin, and 1 at the helm. The luxury of a heated helm  (within the enclosure ) would be nice. These bus heaters produce heat at a very high rate.
Has anyone had any experience with this, or for that matter any hydronic system aboard their vessel?

I recently ran Spirit back from Puerto Rico to NY on a solo run of what turned out to be 1600nm.
Before leaving, I strapped a fuel bladder (50gal) on top of the stern cabin. I bought 2 pipes each with a shut off valve. 1 a fill (larger to accommodate the fuel nozzle), 1 an outflow with a fitting to attach a hose to run into the fuel tank. I used a clear hose so I could see the fuel flowing. Once I knew I had used up more than 50 gal of fuel, I ran the hose into the tank, and while applying pressure to the bladder with my knee, opened the outflow valve, and the fuel siphoned into the tank, sucking all the fuel out of the bladder. It worked like a charm. I took off the pipes, and replaced the bladder caps, rolled the bladder up. and that was that. If anyone is interested in the bladder hookup and type, let me know.

Thanks in advance for any feedback on the 2 other issues.
Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14
back in Shinnecock NY


Courtney Gorman
 

Hi Jeff I would love to see your bladder setup.  Cheers 🍻 
Courtney 
Trippin
54#101
Brunswick 


On Dec 5, 2020, at 7:35 AM, JEFFREY KRAUS <jmkraus@...> wrote:

Good Morning Amelians,
I hope this message finds everyone well and happy throughout the globe.
I'm looking to install a smart external regulator. 
I'm looking into 2 currently.
a. wakespeed 500   Another Amel owner has installed this unit with good results, and I'm awaiting more information on it and it's installation.
b. ZM5  I recently got a return email from the company (located in New Zealand). Information pending.
Has anyone had any experience with the ZM?

I'm looking to install a diesel heater aboard.
I'm giving serious consideration to a hydronic system. One aspect of a hydronic system is that it can heat the boat without the heater operating while the engine is running, with the engine coolant circulating and providing the heat to the fan units, If anyone has used a bus heater, that's how it works. Without the engine on, the diesel heater warms the coolant in the lines. The engine, heater, AND the hot water system are in series, so one has the luxury of heating your hot water while the diesel heater is running also.
The particular system I'm focusing on is a Webasto 2010s.
It can have up to 4 fan/zones. I would install 1 in the main cabin, 1 in forward cabin, 1 in masters cabin, and 1 at the helm. The luxury of a heated helm  (within the enclosure ) would be nice. These bus heaters produce heat at a very high rate.
Has anyone had any experience with this, or for that matter any hydronic system aboard their vessel?

I recently ran Spirit back from Puerto Rico to NY on a solo run of what turned out to be 1600nm.
Before leaving, I strapped a fuel bladder (50gal) on top of the stern cabin. I bought 2 pipes each with a shut off valve. 1 a fill (larger to accommodate the fuel nozzle), 1 an outflow with a fitting to attach a hose to run into the fuel tank. I used a clear hose so I could see the fuel flowing. Once I knew I had used up more than 50 gal of fuel, I ran the hose into the tank, and while applying pressure to the bladder with my knee, opened the outflow valve, and the fuel siphoned into the tank, sucking all the fuel out of the bladder. It worked like a charm. I took off the pipes, and replaced the bladder caps, rolled the bladder up. and that was that. If anyone is interested in the bladder hookup and type, let me know.

Thanks in advance for any feedback on the 2 other issues.
Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14
back in Shinnecock NY


JEFFREY KRAUS
 

Courtney,
I haven't tried to post any pictures onto the Amel site. I'll try to figure out how to do it, and take some pictures of the components, and the put the pictures up.
It's a pretty simple set up.
Jeff
Spirit 
Amel 54 #14
Shinnecock, NY


Courtney Gorman
 

Thanks Jeff hopefully heading south in January but we’ll see 
Cheers 🥂 
Courtney 
Trippin
54#101
Brunswick 


On Dec 6, 2020, at 6:44 AM, JEFFREY KRAUS <jmkraus@...> wrote:

Courtney,
I haven't tried to post any pictures onto the Amel site. I'll try to figure out how to do it, and take some pictures of the components, and the put the pictures up.
It's a pretty simple set up.
Jeff
Spirit 
Amel 54 #14
Shinnecock, NY


Alan Leslie
 

Hello Jeff,

Re Smart External Regulators

There are a lot of them on the market and they mostly work the same way, except the Sterling units which don't require alternator modification (I don;t understand how they work). The majority require you to modify the alternator to disconnect the internal regulator and bring out the wires from the brushes (the field connection) to connect to the external regulator. That's easy enough to do, but you need to be aware that the standard Leece Neville 175A alternator is not continuously rated for full output. In other words with a smart regulator and low SOC batteries, when you start the engine, the reg will deliver max field current to the alternator and it will produce 175A - until either the batteries charge up quickly and the current drops or the alternator burns up. You need to be aware of this so that you can manage the system, by either not allowing the batteries to get too low (always a good plan) or being prepared to start the genset and switch on the battery chargers to relieve the load on the alternator.
There is information in the FILES section on alternator mods for smart regulators.
Another useful thing to have is a switch to disconnect the reg field connection when your batteries are fully charged so that when you are running the engine for short trips around the marina, for example, you don't start up a charging cycle when you don't need it.

I don't know anything about heaters !

Good luck

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


JEFFREY KRAUS
 

Good Morning Alan,
At the risk of sounding stupid, what do you mean by "low SOC batteries?"
I avoid letting my battery voltage drop below 24volts. They are standard lead acid.
I was also looking into a means to shut off the alternator from charging. Is your last sentence a description of that?
Overcharging on extended periods of motoring has presented problems, and if I could have the option of shutting off the charging circuit from the alternator to the batteries, it would be fail safe for the battery bank.
Best Regards,
Jeff
Spirit Amel 54 #14


Alan Leslie
 

Hi Jeff
Sorry SOC-State Of Charge
Yes my field disconnect switch does just that,  however your smart reg will go to float eventually this will stop the overcharging that can happen with the standard automotive type reg.
I only use the switch as I stated.
Cheers 
Alan
Elyse SM 437


karkauai
 

Has anyone routed the engine room vent exhaust (not the engine exhaust) into the cockpit for warmth?  There shouldn't be any carbon monoxide in it, but might have a little oil or diesel, ir bilge smell depending on how clean the engine room is. Seems like it would be an easy solution and produce a lot if heat. Might even warm the salon a bit.

Kent
SM 243
Kristy

--
Kent & Iris
KRISTY
SM243


Porter McRoberts
 

Seems like a great idea Kent. 
Go for it!  

Porter

Porter McRoberts 
S/V IBIS 
WhatsApp:+1 754 265 2206
Www.fouribis.net

On Dec 7, 2020, at 3:21 PM, karkauai via groups.io <karkauai@...> wrote:


Has anyone routed the engine room vent exhaust (not the engine exhaust) into the cockpit for warmth?  There shouldn't be any carbon monoxide in it, but might have a little oil or diesel, ir bilge smell depending on how clean the engine room is. Seems like it would be an easy solution and produce a lot if heat. Might even warm the salon a bit.

Kent
SM 243
Kristy

--
Kent & Iris
KRISTY
SM243


Brent Cameron
 

Kent, I remember one of the beautiful Amel 54’s (Tinto IV) that I looked at very closely had done a circumnaviation of Norway, Sweden, Finland (through the Russian canals) and the owner (Bengt Martinson)  had rigged a similar setup as they were sailing well north of the Arctic circle.  Here is a picture I had found on Facebook explaining what he did…   he said it consisted of a plastic 90 degree elbow and 150 cm of flexible ventilation hose attached to the existing vent.  He said it kept the enclosure nice and toasty as long as they were motor sailing and gave off absolutely no smell (although I can attest that the engine room on Tinto IV was spotless).  Bengt has since sold Tinto IV to another lucky buyer so not sure he is still watching these pages or not.  

 

Brent

On Dec 7, 2020, 11:43 PM -0500, Porter McRoberts via groups.io <portermcroberts@...>, wrote:
Seems like a great idea Kent. 
Go for it!  

Porter

Porter McRoberts 
S/V IBIS 
WhatsApp:+1 754 265 2206
Www.fouribis.net

On Dec 7, 2020, at 3:21 PM, karkauai via groups.io <karkauai@...> wrote:


Has anyone routed the engine room vent exhaust (not the engine exhaust) into the cockpit for warmth?  There shouldn't be any carbon monoxide in it, but might have a little oil or diesel, ir bilge smell depending on how clean the engine room is. Seems like it would be an easy solution and produce a lot if heat. Might even warm the salon a bit.

Kent
SM 243
Kristy

--
Kent & Iris
KRISTY
SM243

--
Brent Cameron

Future Amel Owner & Amel Owner Registry Moderator

Oro-Medonte, Ontario, Canada


ngtnewington Newington
 

Hi Kent,

I think this has been done before by an Amel in Scandinavia, with success. Not sure who??

 It would be easy to try it with some flexible ducting pipe run from the outlet, over the cockpit combing and into the tented cockpit. For sure it would work as a heater. Then if successful plumb it in properly.
I have not found much dirt around the existing outlet but I guess it would smell a bit engine roomy, and of course there is the Amel bilge...on a positive note a weekly wash down of the engine room with bucket of hot soapy water, stiff brush and an aquavac is a good discipline anyway...maybe add a filter like on a cooker hood extractor?

On the subject of heating. I was thinking of installing a mini heated towel rail in the aft cabin head. The idea was to plum it into the hot water from the engine. Only need to drill two 15mm holes in the bulkhead with towel rail directly hanging the other side. The pipe would be copper or stainless. There could be a simple diverter valve in the engine domestic hot water circuit so the flow would come from the hot water tank return and the return would (have either a one way valve or just an on off) go back to the engine. In hot countries the towel rail would be out of the circuit and thus off. I have not got around to this, but in cold climates it would be really great. There could also  be a 220v  heating element so with either the engine or the generator or shore power there would be heat.
Problems ?
It would have to be custom made.
Maybe it would get too hot, like 80 centigrade.....I know the hot water can get scalding hot after a motor!

Nick, 
(back in U.K. in hospital after knee replacement. Hoping to be ready to sail by March.)

S/V Amelia 
AML 54 Leros Gr.


On 8 Dec 2020, at 01:21, karkauai via groups.io <karkauai@...> wrote:


Has anyone routed the engine room vent exhaust (not the engine exhaust) into the cockpit for warmth?  There shouldn't be any carbon monoxide in it, but might have a little oil or diesel, ir bilge smell depending on how clean the engine room is. Seems like it would be an easy solution and produce a lot if heat. Might even warm the salon a bit.

Kent
SM 243
Kristy

--
Kent & Iris
KRISTY
SM243


Patrick McAneny
 

Kent, I did , I used 4" flex duct used to vent dryers. It provide a fair amount of warm air to the helm. Say Hi !  to Iris .
Happy Holidays,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: karkauai via groups.io <karkauai@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Dec 7, 2020 8:20 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] 3 topics Smart Regulator Hydronic diesel heater

Has anyone routed the engine room vent exhaust (not the engine exhaust) into the cockpit for warmth?  There shouldn't be any carbon monoxide in it, but might have a little oil or diesel, ir bilge smell depending on how clean the engine room is. Seems like it would be an easy solution and produce a lot if heat. Might even warm the salon a bit.

Kent
SM 243
Kristy

--
Kent & Iris
KRISTY
SM243


karkauai
 

Hi Pat,
Great, I'm going to give it a try.

It's going to have to wait, though, we've decided to cancel our sailing plans until the Covid rules stabilize... the BVI approach finally did it for me. Kristy will stay on the hard in Cambridge until Spring. I'll winterize her tomorrow and finish getting my new shop ready. Building cabinets, dust collection system, then restart on the wherry I was building when I sold the place in NC.
Hope you and Diane are having a good holiday season.

Best from Iris and I to you and all the rest of the extended Amel family.
Kent & Iris
SV Kristy
SM 243

--
Kent & Iris
KRISTY
SM243


Scott SV Tengah
 

Not sure how all of you keep your engine room smelling fresh! We have a bucket for pre-washing dishes which we physically walk outside to dump overboard and it still smells a bit in the engine room when I'm down there doing maintenance. While it's true that you shouldn't have CO contamination from the Diesel engine, is it worth risking it? A leak somewhere in the exhaust circuit could really ruin your day.

Jeff - Regarding the Wakespeed - I don't know much about them but I guess your A54 has the 175A alternator? Can you change that to the Mastervolt 24/110 setup? It's very programmable so you can set bulk/absorption/float just like a 220v charger. It's also rated for continuous use and I have tested it. With 30% SOC, I ran it until my batteries were fully charged. Keep in mind my lifepo4 setup can take full current util the batteries are effectively full so the alternator was maxing out for 3.5 hours. MV said I didn't need a temp sensor but I installed one anyways and it didn't taper output.

The MV/Alphapro setup has a reg-on wire that can safely turn off your alternator. I installed a switch in case I want to stop charging on long motoring sessions. But generally I just let the other components in my system manage that (BMS, alpha pro regulator).  I recall a post where you had a mini battery explosion during motoring so I understand your desire to control charging when nearly full.

I know you said you have lead, but if you're going to spend money to upgrade, you might want to consider future proofing in case you decide to move away from lead one day.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com