Placement of Beta 60 in an Amel Maramu #replacement


eric freedman
 

Thank You Danny,

Thank you for the explanation.

 

I am headed off to St Maarten for a new Yanmar  mid January.

 

It is working perfectly and all the fluid samples are great. However with over 7,000 hours, I thought I would just replace it and never have to worry about something going bang on a passage .

I was concerned about the possibility of breaking the oil pump, a wrist pin, or a connecting rod.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

HAPPY New Year

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2020 3:28 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Placement of Beta 60 in an Amel Maramu #replacement

 

Hi Eric, it wasn't an hours issue. What caused its demise was the misunderstanding about rpm. It was maxing at 2800 rpm under load and the consensus on the forum was that there must be something wrong since under no load it would easily do 4000. Many of us tried to resolve what wasn't an issue. So when after about 2 years and 25000 sailing miles suddenly it would rev up to  3500 under load I thought it had resolved whatever was wrong. HOWEVER 2800rpm was the correct max under load and the ability to rev higher was caused by a jammed wastegate on the turbo. This is intended to open progressively to reduce the boost as revs increase.  So with it jammed closed the boost pressure was excessive, hence the higher revs achieved. Not that I ran it at high revs a lot, but over several years the excess pressure damaged the rings and pistons and eventually I couldn't get better than 2200 rpm under load. I tried everything without success including quite a lot of Volvo specialist time. So one day, having had the engineer on board yet again I said b....it and ordered a new one. In retrospect it would have made more sense to do a recondition on the TMD22 since I had replaced most of the bolt ons.

So you TMD owners. 2800 load rpm is correct and if you are getting more, check the waste gate.

Happy New Year to you all

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 31 December 2020 at 17:22 eric freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

How many hours were on your engine before you replaced it?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 1:00 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Placement of Beta 60 in an Amel Maramu #replacement

 

Hi. The Beta spunds a good option. However I repkced my tmd22 with  volvo d275 and with 1300 hpurs up it is going well. Plus points. It has significantly more torque. Even with the propellor barnacle encrusted it pulls its standard 3000 rpm. Existing gearbox bolted on. Enging mount hole  positioning was identical, fitted perfectly onto the egine bearers. All we had to do was make new forward end spacers to align the engine. Could not have been easier.

It is significantly lighter than the tmd22 and this shows in the fore aft trim. It is a turbo. But no timing belt. It is a push rod engine, not ohc. I did not make up the spacer alignment tool for this job, nor for the engine mout repacement this year. No difficulties at all. Nil vibration.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean pearl

On 30 December 2020 at 16:35 "michael winand via groups.io" <mfw642000@...> wrote:

The Beta 60 has more torque than the tmd22. The hp is measured at the gearbox output 
I would say that the Beta 60 has the same power as the tmd22 but lower in the rev range. My cruising revs is around 1800 and 6kn  flat out 2200 and 7.5 kn in flat calm water. 30kn wind on the nose would be 4kn 

The cubic capacity makes a difference.  It is nice to have no  turbo  and no timing belt. 

Michael Nebo sm251 

 

 

 

On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 at 1:03 pm, Germain Jean-Pierre

<jp.germain45@...> wrote:

Hello Larry on Sulawesi,

 

Is the Beta 60 sufficient for an SM?  A

2

Curious as I would like a non TC engine when I have to replace my Volvo TDM22.

 

Kind regards,

 

Jean-Pierre Germain, Eleuthera, SM007, NZ

 

 

On 30 Dec 2020, at 14:08, Larry Salibra <larry@...> wrote:

Hi Dirk,

Sula (SM 140) also has a Beta 60 fitted by the previous owner. She has the standard 70 amp 12v insulated return alternator and the 24v 60amp insulated return secondary alternator. No adjustments were made to oil and fuel filters.

Larry
SM140 Sula
Hong Kong

 

 

 


 


 


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Eric, it wasn't an hours issue. What caused its demise was the misunderstanding about rpm. It was maxing at 2800 rpm under load and the consensus on the forum was that there must be something wrong since under no load it would easily do 4000. Many of us tried to resolve what wasn't an issue. So when after about 2 years and 25000 sailing miles suddenly it would rev up to  3500 under load I thought it had resolved whatever was wrong. HOWEVER 2800rpm was the correct max under load and the ability to rev higher was caused by a jammed wastegate on the turbo. This is intended to open progressively to reduce the boost as revs increase.  So with it jammed closed the boost pressure was excessive, hence the higher revs achieved. Not that I ran it at high revs a lot, but over several years the excess pressure damaged the rings and pistons and eventually I couldn't get better than 2200 rpm under load. I tried everything without success including quite a lot of Volvo specialist time. So one day, having had the engineer on board yet again I said b....it and ordered a new one. In retrospect it would have made more sense to do a recondition on the TMD22 since I had replaced most of the bolt ons.

So you TMD owners. 2800 load rpm is correct and if you are getting more, check the waste gate.

Happy New Year to you all

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 31 December 2020 at 17:22 eric freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

How many hours were on your engine before you replaced it?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 1:00 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Placement of Beta 60 in an Amel Maramu #replacement

 

Hi. The Beta spunds a good option. However I repkced my tmd22 with  volvo d275 and with 1300 hpurs up it is going well. Plus points. It has significantly more torque. Even with the propellor barnacle encrusted it pulls its standard 3000 rpm. Existing gearbox bolted on. Enging mount hole  positioning was identical, fitted perfectly onto the egine bearers. All we had to do was make new forward end spacers to align the engine. Could not have been easier.

It is significantly lighter than the tmd22 and this shows in the fore aft trim. It is a turbo. But no timing belt. It is a push rod engine, not ohc. I did not make up the spacer alignment tool for this job, nor for the engine mout repacement this year. No difficulties at all. Nil vibration.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean pearl

On 30 December 2020 at 16:35 "michael winand via groups.io" <mfw642000@...> wrote:

The Beta 60 has more torque than the tmd22. The hp is measured at the gearbox output 
I would say that the Beta 60 has the same power as the tmd22 but lower in the rev range. My cruising revs is around 1800 and 6kn  flat out 2200 and 7.5 kn in flat calm water. 30kn wind on the nose would be 4kn 

The cubic capacity makes a difference.  It is nice to have no  turbo  and no timing belt. 

Michael Nebo sm251 

 

 

 

On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 at 1:03 pm, Germain Jean-Pierre

<jp.germain45@...> wrote:

Hello Larry on Sulawesi,

 

Is the Beta 60 sufficient for an SM?  A

2

Curious as I would like a non TC engine when I have to replace my Volvo TDM22.

 

Kind regards,

 

Jean-Pierre Germain, Eleuthera, SM007, NZ

 



On 30 Dec 2020, at 14:08, Larry Salibra <larry@...> wrote:

Hi Dirk,

Sula (SM 140) also has a Beta 60 fitted by the previous owner. She has the standard 70 amp 12v insulated return alternator and the 24v 60amp insulated return secondary alternator. No adjustments were made to oil and fuel filters.

Larry
SM140 Sula
Hong Kong

 

 



 


 


eric freedman
 

Hi Danny,

How many hours were on your engine before you replaced it?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 1:00 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Placement of Beta 60 in an Amel Maramu #replacement

 

Hi. The Beta spunds a good option. However I repkced my tmd22 with  volvo d275 and with 1300 hpurs up it is going well. Plus points. It has significantly more torque. Even with the propellor barnacle encrusted it pulls its standard 3000 rpm. Existing gearbox bolted on. Enging mount hole  positioning was identical, fitted perfectly onto the egine bearers. All we had to do was make new forward end spacers to align the engine. Could not have been easier.

It is significantly lighter than the tmd22 and this shows in the fore aft trim. It is a turbo. But no timing belt. It is a push rod engine, not ohc. I did not make up the spacer alignment tool for this job, nor for the engine mout repacement this year. No difficulties at all. Nil vibration.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean pearl

On 30 December 2020 at 16:35 "michael winand via groups.io" <mfw642000@...> wrote:

The Beta 60 has more torque than the tmd22. The hp is measured at the gearbox output 
I would say that the Beta 60 has the same power as the tmd22 but lower in the rev range. My cruising revs is around 1800 and 6kn  flat out 2200 and 7.5 kn in flat calm water. 30kn wind on the nose would be 4kn 

The cubic capacity makes a difference.  It is nice to have no  turbo  and no timing belt. 

Michael Nebo sm251 

 

 

 

On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 at 1:03 pm, Germain Jean-Pierre

<jp.germain45@...> wrote:

Hello Larry on Sulawesi,

 

Is the Beta 60 sufficient for an SM?  A

2

Curious as I would like a non TC engine when I have to replace my Volvo TDM22.

 

Kind regards,

 

Jean-Pierre Germain, Eleuthera, SM007, NZ

 



On 30 Dec 2020, at 14:08, Larry Salibra <larry@...> wrote:

Hi Dirk,

Sula (SM 140) also has a Beta 60 fitted by the previous owner. She has the standard 70 amp 12v insulated return alternator and the 24v 60amp insulated return secondary alternator. No adjustments were made to oil and fuel filters.

Larry
SM140 Sula
Hong Kong

 


Larry Salibra
 

Hi Jean-Pierre,

Keep in mind I've only used the boat 5-6 times since purchase thanks to Hong Kong's stringent operator licensing regime. When I did the sea trial with a clean hull, I saw similar result to Michael on SM251: wide open throttle gave me about 7.7 knots in flat water @ 2600 rpm. It was running bit hot though. As the propeller started getting growth, she started moving a LOT slower under engine. I hauled out a week or two ago and had a small coral reef growing on the prop and c-drive.

I've just reduced the maxprop propeller pitch from 18 degrees to 16 degrees based on the advice of the engineer that installed the Beta, which will of course reduce my top speed but also reduce load on the engine. Will see how that goes.

More power would always be nice, but it comes at a cost in terms of fuel consumption, weight, engine complexity (turbo!), and money. If I was doing the re-engine myself, I'd seriously look at the Beta 85T that Bill Rouse recommends. That said, I might still end up with the Beta 60 because I find myself leaning towards smaller engines in sailboats. The goal is to sail, not make lots of noise and burn up lots of fuel to push 16,000 kg 1 knot faster.

Larry
SM140 Sula
Hong Kong


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi. The Beta spunds a good option. However I repkced my tmd22 with  volvo d275 and with 1300 hpurs up it is going well. Plus points. It has significantly more torque. Even with the propellor barnacle encrusted it pulls its standard 3000 rpm. Existing gearbox bolted on. Enging mount hole  positioning was identical, fitted perfectly onto the egine bearers. All we had to do was make new forward end spacers to align the engine. Could not have been easier.

It is significantly lighter than the tmd22 and this shows in the fore aft trim. It is a turbo. But no timing belt. It is a push rod engine, not ohc. I did not make up the spacer alignment tool for this job, nor for the engine mout repacement this year. No difficulties at all. Nil vibration.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean pearl

On 30 December 2020 at 16:35 "michael winand via groups.io" <mfw642000@...> wrote:

The Beta 60 has more torque than the tmd22. The hp is measured at the gearbox output 
I would say that the Beta 60 has the same power as the tmd22 but lower in the rev range. My cruising revs is around 1800 and 6kn  flat out 2200 and 7.5 kn in flat calm water. 30kn wind on the nose would be 4kn 
The cubic capacity makes a difference.  It is nice to have no  turbo  and no timing belt. 
Michael Nebo sm251 

 

On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 at 1:03 pm, Germain Jean-Pierre
<jp.germain45@...> wrote:
Hello Larry on Sulawesi,

Is the Beta 60 sufficient for an SM?  A
2
Curious as I would like a non TC engine when I have to replace my Volvo TDM22.

Kind regards,

Jean-Pierre Germain, Eleuthera, SM007, NZ

 

On 30 Dec 2020, at 14:08, Larry Salibra <larry@...> wrote:

Hi Dirk,

Sula (SM 140) also has a Beta 60 fitted by the previous owner. She has the standard 70 amp 12v insulated return alternator and the 24v 60amp insulated return secondary alternator. No adjustments were made to oil and fuel filters.

Larry
SM140 Sula
Hong Kong
 


michael winand
 

The Beta 60 has more torque than the tmd22. The hp is measured at the gearbox output 
I would say that the Beta 60 has the same power as the tmd22 but lower in the rev range. My cruising revs is around 1800 and 6kn  flat out 2200 and 7.5 kn in flat calm water. 
30kn wind on the nose would be 4kn 
The cubic capacity makes a difference.  It is nice to have no  turbo  and no timing belt. 
Michael Nebo sm251 


On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 at 1:03 pm, Germain Jean-Pierre
<jp.germain45@...> wrote:
Hello Larry on Sulawesi,

Is the Beta 60 sufficient for an SM?  A
2
Curious as I would like a non TC engine when I have to replace my Volvo TDM22.

Kind regards,

Jean-Pierre Germain, Eleuthera, SM007, NZ


On 30 Dec 2020, at 14:08, Larry Salibra <larry@...> wrote:

Hi Dirk,

Sula (SM 140) also has a Beta 60 fitted by the previous owner. She has the standard 70 amp 12v insulated return alternator and the 24v 60amp insulated return secondary alternator. No adjustments were made to oil and fuel filters.

Larry
SM140 Sula
Hong Kong


Germain Jean-Pierre
 

Hello Larry on Sulawesi,

Is the Beta 60 sufficient for an SM?  

Curious as I would like a non TC engine when I have to replace my Volvo TDM22.

Kind regards,

Jean-Pierre Germain, Eleuthera, SM007, NZ


On 30 Dec 2020, at 14:08, Larry Salibra <larry@...> wrote:

Hi Dirk,

Sula (SM 140) also has a Beta 60 fitted by the previous owner. She has the standard 70 amp 12v insulated return alternator and the 24v 60amp insulated return secondary alternator. No adjustments were made to oil and fuel filters.

Larry
SM140 Sula
Hong Kong


Larry Salibra
 

Hi Dirk,

Sula (SM 140) also has a Beta 60 fitted by the previous owner. She has the standard 70 amp 12v insulated return alternator and the 24v 60amp insulated return secondary alternator. No adjustments were made to oil and fuel filters.

Larry
SM140 Sula
Hong Kong


Dirk Hazenoot Maramu Huli 171
 

Dear Michael, thank you for your reaction. The super maramu uses a saildrive and the maramu a shaft drive. Also the engine room is smaller but the layout is the same. Have you also had adjustments made to the oil and fuel filter? And what kind of alternator did you connect to the engine? Thanks again and I look forward to your response.


michael winand
 

I have a beta 60 recently installed on my super maramu. Not sure what the difference between the physical size is between the maramu and super maramu. 

Michael  Nebo 251


Dirk Hazenoot Maramu Huli 171
 
Edited

Good day Amel friends,
 
Does anyone have pictures of a Beta 60 placed in an Amel Maramu? I followed the story of Mark & Nicky Barter regarding their placement of a Beta 85 in a super Maramu. It hurts me to read what went wrong with their placement. I admire their perseverance. As far as I can, I want to rule out anything that could go wrong with the placement of our Beta 60. We intend to order the engine directly from Beta UK and have it configured there. On the advice of Bill Kinney, we intend to install a 175 Amp alternator at the factory. Can this be placed in the standard position or should it be placed on the other side as with Mark & Nicky? We plan to install 2 fuel filters so that we can switch easily in case of calamities if one filter is dirty. Does anyone have experience with this? I would also like to know what you think is the best configuration with regard to oil filter and water pump. In short, who owns an Amel Maramu containing a Beta 60 and would like to share his knowledge with me? I look forward to your response.
 
Kind regards and a happy new year,
 
Dirk Hazenoot,