Change of black water valve Amel 54


Alain Durante
 

Hello,

 

Does anyone experienced the change of a black water valve (front toilet) in an Amel 54?

 

Thank you so much for your help.

 

Cordialement,

 

Alain Durante

A54 / Meige

 

 


Arno Luijten
 

Hi Alain,

Yes I do. Not a plesant memory I can say. You will need to find a tool (pliers/spanner) that can give you some leverage to turn the old valve off. I removed the lever first to use the remaining stub to get some grip on the old valve. Long arms are very welcome. And you will get bruises that are somewhat painfull.
I used Locktite Thread sealant to mount the new one. The tread is a straight thread. Try to get a bronze valve if you can. That can be very hard as not many shops sell them. 

Just expect a struggle getting the old one off. You may be lucky and get it off more easy then I did. Do not forget to clean the threads with a wire-brush before putting on the new one. 


Good luck!

Arno Luijten,
SV Luna,
A54-121


Alain Durante
 

Bonjour Arno,

 

Thank you very much for your reply and indeed not so much space to work.

 

Anyway, the boat is going to be on the yard from next week so I will let you know my progress 😊

 

What about a stainless valve instead of bronze knowing that most of the time the valve in not in the water?

 

Also, I need to change the gasket of the bow thruster tube and read some people had difficulty to remove the  tube from the electric motor. Did you already made such maintenance?

 

Cordialement,

 

Alain Durante

 

A54 – 21

Meige

 

 

De : main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> De la part de Arno Luijten via groups.io
Envoyé : mercredi 7 avril 2021 13:31
À : main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Objet : Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Change of black water valve Amel 54

 

Hi Alain,

Yes I do. Not a plesant memory I can say. You will need to find a tool (pliers/spanner) that can give you some leverage to turn the old valve off. I removed the lever first to use the remaining stub to get some grip on the old valve. Long arms are very welcome. And you will get bruises that are somewhat painfull.
I used Locktite Thread sealant to mount the new one. The tread is a straight thread. Try to get a bronze valve if you can. That can be very hard as not many shops sell them. 

Just expect a struggle getting the old one off. You may be lucky and get it off more easy then I did. Do not forget to clean the threads with a wire-brush before putting on the new one. 


Good luck!

Arno Luijten,
SV Luna,
A54-121


Brent Cameron
 

Unfortunately, I’ve had way too much experience with this task and I have found that better than pliers/spanners, or even chain wrenches, are the cheapie “oil filter” type rubber belt wrenches as they don’t mar up the fitting and the small amount of give that they have actually seems to help loosen the joint.  Best of all, they fit really easily into very tight spaces.  I have bought quite a few different types of wrenches (from huge channel lock spanners, to pipe wrenches to chain wrenches over the years but to get into some really tight spaces and these are the ones I keep in my portable plumbing toolbox now as I haven’t found big nuts/valves that I couldn’t loosen with them.  The price is right too ($5).  They also work well for oil filters!  

https://www.harborfreight.com/rubber-strap-wrench-set-2-pc-69373.html

I have had a few fittings that I really had to jump on to get off, and in those instances (before I thought to try these), I used a chain version of these but find that they don’t fit into as tight spaces, so I leave them on the wall rack in my workshop.  
https://www.princessauto.com/en/chain-oil-filter-wrench/product/PA0008248353

Brent

On Apr 7, 2021, 7:31 AM -0400, Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...>, wrote:

Hi Alain,

Yes I do. Not a plesant memory I can say. You will need to find a tool (pliers/spanner) that can give you some leverage to turn the old valve off. I removed the lever first to use the remaining stub to get some grip on the old valve. Long arms are very welcome. And you will get bruises that are somewhat painfull.
I used Locktite Thread sealant to mount the new one. The tread is a straight thread. Try to get a bronze valve if you can. That can be very hard as not many shops sell them.

Just expect a struggle getting the old one off. You may be lucky and get it off more easy then I did. Do not forget to clean the threads with a wire-brush before putting on the new one.


Good luck!

Arno Luijten,
SV Luna,
A54-121


--
Brent Cameron

Future Amel Owner & Amel Owner Registry Moderator

Oro-Medonte, Ontario, Canada


Mark & Debbie Mueller
 

I have changed the valve on the aft head.  My advice to any 54 owner needing to change the aft head valve is to sail to an Amel service center and pay them to change that valve.

 

Before you start be sure to flush a large quantity of water and water with Clorox through the tank allowing it to drain thoroughly.

 

The valve will normally have an overlay of fiberglass between the valve and the stub in the hull that should be removed before trying to unscrew the valve.  I used a Dremel tool to slowly remove the fiberglass; use caution not to damage the threaded nipple that screws into the valve.  Arno does not overstate the fact that you will get bruises and abrasions when doing this job.

 

In my case removing the valve required a standard pipe wrench to get the needed leverage.  Due to the restricted space I unscrewed the valve from the stub in the boat allowing the hose barb to rotate in the hose then unscrewed the valve from the fitting in the hose.  Even warming the hose with a heat gun to make it more pliable I was unable to remove it from the hose barb first.  I then removed the hose barb.  Assembly began by putting the valve on the stub first then assembling the hose barb and hose.  Take a look at the space you have to figure out a plan.  It would be advisable to have an assistant with you to hand you tools.  In my case I left the head in place so I could lay on it and reach back into the cavity, in the front head it might be easier to remove it to have a little bit bigger area to work.

 

Take a look at this valve by Groco.  The unique feature is the grease zerk that will allow you to periodically grease the ball to prevent sticking.

 

https://www.groco.net/products/valves-seacocks/inline-valves/ibv-series-bspp-thread


--
Mark Mueller
Brass Ring  A54


Alain Durante
 

Dear Mark,

 

Thank you very much for your explanations and great advices.

 

I like your first paragraph 😊

 

The Groco valve is also interesting but do you remember the size because I am not currently on the boat?

 

Cordialement,

 

Alain Durante

 

Amel 54 / Meige

 

 

De : main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> De la part de Mark & Debbie Mueller via groups.io
Envoyé : mercredi 7 avril 2021 16:48
À : main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Objet : Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Change of black water valve Amel 54

 

I have changed the valve on the aft head.  My advice to any 54 owner needing to change the aft head valve is to sail to an Amel service center and pay them to change that valve.

 

Before you start be sure to flush a large quantity of water and water with Clorox through the tank allowing it to drain thoroughly.

 

The valve will normally have an overlay of fiberglass between the valve and the stub in the hull that should be removed before trying to unscrew the valve.  I used a Dremel tool to slowly remove the fiberglass; use caution not to damage the threaded nipple that screws into the valve.  Arno does not overstate the fact that you will get bruises and abrasions when doing this job.

 

In my case removing the valve required a standard pipe wrench to get the needed leverage.  Due to the restricted space I unscrewed the valve from the stub in the boat allowing the hose barb to rotate in the hose then unscrewed the valve from the fitting in the hose.  Even warming the hose with a heat gun to make it more pliable I was unable to remove it from the hose barb first.  I then removed the hose barb.  Assembly began by putting the valve on the stub first then assembling the hose barb and hose.  Take a look at the space you have to figure out a plan.  It would be advisable to have an assistant with you to hand you tools.  In my case I left the head in place so I could lay on it and reach back into the cavity, in the front head it might be easier to remove it to have a little bit bigger area to work.

 

Take a look at this valve by Groco.  The unique feature is the grease zerk that will allow you to periodically grease the ball to prevent sticking.

 

https://www.groco.net/products/valves-seacocks/inline-valves/ibv-series-bspp-thread


--
Mark Mueller
Brass Ring  A54


Alain Durante
 

Merci Brent.

 

Cordialement,

 

Alain Durante

Meige / Amel 54

 

De : main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> De la part de Brent Cameron via groups.io
Envoyé : mercredi 7 avril 2021 15:44
À : main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Objet : Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Change of black water valve Amel 54

 

Unfortunately, I’ve had way too much experience with this task and I have found that better than pliers/spanners, or even chain wrenches, are the cheapie “oil filter” type rubber belt wrenches as they don’t mar up the fitting and the small amount of give that they have actually seems to help loosen the joint.  Best of all, they fit really easily into very tight spaces.  I have bought quite a few different types of wrenches (from huge channel lock spanners, to pipe wrenches to chain wrenches over the years but to get into some really tight spaces and these are the ones I keep in my portable plumbing toolbox now as I haven’t found big nuts/valves that I couldn’t loosen with them.  The price is right too ($5).  They also work well for oil filters!  

https://www.harborfreight.com/rubber-strap-wrench-set-2-pc-69373.html

I have had a few fittings that I really had to jump on to get off, and in those instances (before I thought to try these), I used a chain version of these but find that they don’t fit into as tight spaces, so I leave them on the wall rack in my workshop.  
https://www.princessauto.com/en/chain-oil-filter-wrench/product/PA0008248353

 

Brent

On Apr 7, 2021, 7:31 AM -0400, Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...>, wrote:

Hi Alain,

Yes I do. Not a plesant memory I can say. You will need to find a tool (pliers/spanner) that can give you some leverage to turn the old valve off. I removed the lever first to use the remaining stub to get some grip on the old valve. Long arms are very welcome. And you will get bruises that are somewhat painfull.
I used Locktite Thread sealant to mount the new one. The tread is a straight thread. Try to get a bronze valve if you can. That can be very hard as not many shops sell them.

Just expect a struggle getting the old one off. You may be lucky and get it off more easy then I did. Do not forget to clean the threads with a wire-brush before putting on the new one.


Good luck!

Arno Luijten,
SV Luna,
A54-121


--
Brent Cameron

Future Amel Owner & Amel Owner Registry Moderator

Oro-Medonte, Ontario, Canada


Arno Luijten
 

Hi Alain,

I'm not sure about the stainless as the pipe that is laminated in the hull is probably bronze, I'm not sure. In theory the bonding cable to the anodes should protect the assembly but  it is quite the distance to the anodes. I think I would stick to bronze if available but that is more driven by ignorance then anything else.

When I removed the old valve I first removed the hose clamps but I did not try to get the hose off. There is very little room and barb that sits on the valve will rotate inside the hose when rotating the valve. Once the valve is unscrewed it is a bit easier too get the hose off.

I have not yet had the pleasure of removing the bowthruster That is on the list for next year hopefully. Or maybe for the hurricane season when the boat will be stored in Curacao.

Regards,

Arno


Alain Durante
 

Dear Arno,

 

Well I just called Amel and he said that does not matter if bronze or stainless as far as the valve is connected to the ground cable.

 

I am using stainless valve in my company and one particular design might be interesting because once it is connected to the tube and the pipe laminated in the hull it will be very easy to change the central part by removing 4 bolts only.

 

Here the link: https://www.bene-inox.com/fr/vanne-3-piece-femelle-1000-lbs-pn63-passage-integral-poignee-cadenassable-inox-316-gaz-npt-58163/

 

I will let you know if easy or not removing the bow thruster.  

 

Cordialement,

 

Alain Durante

Meige / Amel 54

 

De : main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> De la part de Arno Luijten via groups.io
Envoyé : mercredi 7 avril 2021 17:32
À : main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Objet : Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Change of black water valve Amel 54

 

Hi Alain,

I'm not sure about the stainless as the pipe that is laminated in the hull is probably bronze, I'm not sure. In theory the bonding cable to the anodes should protect the assembly but  it is quite the distance to the anodes. I think I would stick to bronze if available but that is more driven by ignorance then anything else.

When I removed the old valve I first removed the hose clamps but I did not try to get the hose off. There is very little room and barb that sits on the valve will rotate inside the hose when rotating the valve. Once the valve is unscrewed it is a bit easier too get the hose off.

I have not yet had the pleasure of removing the bowthruster That is on the list for next year hopefully. Or maybe for the hurricane season when the boat will be stored in Curacao.

Regards,

Arno


Scott SV Tengah
 

I replaced the BT seals about 4 months ago. If you have a big puller, it isn't too difficult. We couldn't source one in Tahiti so made one out of two steel bars we found in the dumpster (!!) and two long bolts/nuts.

Here's a thread I started about it:

https://amelyachtowners.groups.io/g/main/topic/78551423#55808


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Mark & Debbie Mueller
 

The aft valve is 1 1/4" BSPP I believe the forward head is the same.  One of the guys that has changed the forward valve may respond or contact them directly to confirm.
--
Mark Mueller
Brass Ring  A54


Alain Durante
 

Merci Mark !

 

Cordialement,

 

Alain Durante

Meige Amel 54

 

De : main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> De la part de Mark & Debbie Mueller via groups.io
Envoyé : mercredi 7 avril 2021 21:49
À : main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Objet : Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Change of black water valve Amel 54

 

The aft valve is 1 1/4" BSPP I believe the forward head is the same.  One of the guys that has changed the forward valve may respond or contact them directly to confirm.
--
Mark Mueller
Brass Ring  A54