2008 Amel 54 rigging


 

Courtney, 

Nance and Underwood are one of my Preferred Vendors. Be sure that you tell Roger that you are a client.

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 12:43 PM Porter McRoberts via groups.io <portermcroberts=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Nance and Underwood are great. I agree and have all the in-house aptitudes to handle deviations and unexpected realities. And they pick up the phone and get right in it if there’s an issue. 



Porter McRoberts 
S/V IBIS A54-152
WhatsApp:+1 754 265 2206

On Apr 13, 2021, at 5:34 AM, Courtney Gorman via groups.io <Itsfun1=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:


Thanks Bill for all the great informantion
Cheers
Courtney


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Kinney <cruisingconsulting@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Apr 13, 2021 10:10 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] 2008 Amel 54 rigging

Courntey,

There are several ways to do the rigging on an Amel (or any other boat, for that matter)  You can have the exact dimensions on file, and cut the wires to length at a factory and prepare the end terminals there and ship out the competed product.  This is what ACMO does, and does well.

The standard process that most riggers use is to measure the wires, then prepare the rig at their shop and install it on the boat. There are a couple issues here.  It is very difficult to measure the lengths precisely with the rig up, so most riggers will want the rig down.  Also, there are very few rigging shops that use a proper rotary hammer swaging machine, preferring the much smaller, much less expensive roller swager instead.  A roller swager can certainly make a good sage, but a lot depends on the skill, experience, and careful attention of the operator.

We worked with a rigger who did things a bit differently.

When we re-rigged last year we looked at the ACMO package.  If we were going to install it ourselves, we would certainly have gone that way.  But we were busy with other projects, and the amount of aloft time needed to install a new rig just didn't appeal. Since local riggers make a good piece of their profit on materials, if you come to most of them with a rig on a pallet for installation (i.e., ACMO), it can get expensive.

We used Nance and Underwood in Fort Lauderdale to make and install the new rig.  They have done a LOT of Amel re-rigs, under Joel Potter's tutoring. They know the boats. They have a design for a bespoke bronze turnbuckle they make in-house for the Super Maramu and others that use that furler so can fully replace the forestay fittings inside the furler without compromise. For their work process, mechanical terminals work out very well.  They make up the top end of all the wires at the shop, and leave them a little long. At the boat, they take down one wire at a time, lay it out on the dock, cut the new wire to the exact length, install the lower terminal, and hang the wire. In our experience they come pretty close to the right tuning at the dock, but be prepared to go through the last couple of steps in Olivier's rigging instructions when you get the boat sailing to make sure it is right.

Things to be aware of:  There will be minor changes--I believe with any USA based rigger.  Getting ALL the metric based fittings here is extremely difficult, so some things will be switched over to inch sizes.  That requires enlarging some holes in chainplates.  If that bothers you, your only real option is to use an ACMO kit, or rerig in Europe or the French Caribbean, or wait a long time for slow deliveries.  As far as I can tell, inch size rigging fittings are available everywhere, metric sizes are less widely distributed. The lower shroud turnbuckles also end up rotated 90 degrees, so the lifelines no longer go through them. A minor frustration. If it really bothered you, you COULD drill out a new cotter pin hole in the lower stud. If you use Nance and Underwood, try to find a marina with wood docks, or work with them ahead of time to figure out how to protect the wire from damage while it is being handled and dragged on a concrete dock surface.

All the terminals on our new rig are mechanical terminals--except the lower forestay.  A swage is needed here because on the Super Maramu it has to fit up inside the furler, and there are no mechanical fittings of small enough diameter to do this.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Hollywood, FL, USA


Porter McRoberts
 

Nance and Underwood are great. I agree and have all the in-house aptitudes to handle deviations and unexpected realities. And they pick up the phone and get right in it if there’s an issue. 



Porter McRoberts 
S/V IBIS A54-152
WhatsApp:+1 754 265 2206
Www.fouribis.net

On Apr 13, 2021, at 5:34 AM, Courtney Gorman via groups.io <Itsfun1@...> wrote:


Thanks Bill for all the great informantion
Cheers
Courtney


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Kinney <cruisingconsulting@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Apr 13, 2021 10:10 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] 2008 Amel 54 rigging

Courntey,

There are several ways to do the rigging on an Amel (or any other boat, for that matter)  You can have the exact dimensions on file, and cut the wires to length at a factory and prepare the end terminals there and ship out the competed product.  This is what ACMO does, and does well.

The standard process that most riggers use is to measure the wires, then prepare the rig at their shop and install it on the boat. There are a couple issues here.  It is very difficult to measure the lengths precisely with the rig up, so most riggers will want the rig down.  Also, there are very few rigging shops that use a proper rotary hammer swaging machine, preferring the much smaller, much less expensive roller swager instead.  A roller swager can certainly make a good sage, but a lot depends on the skill, experience, and careful attention of the operator.

We worked with a rigger who did things a bit differently.

When we re-rigged last year we looked at the ACMO package.  If we were going to install it ourselves, we would certainly have gone that way.  But we were busy with other projects, and the amount of aloft time needed to install a new rig just didn't appeal. Since local riggers make a good piece of their profit on materials, if you come to most of them with a rig on a pallet for installation (i.e., ACMO), it can get expensive.

We used Nance and Underwood in Fort Lauderdale to make and install the new rig.  They have done a LOT of Amel re-rigs, under Joel Potter's tutoring. They know the boats. They have a design for a bespoke bronze turnbuckle they make in-house for the Super Maramu and others that use that furler so can fully replace the forestay fittings inside the furler without compromise. For their work process, mechanical terminals work out very well.  They make up the top end of all the wires at the shop, and leave them a little long. At the boat, they take down one wire at a time, lay it out on the dock, cut the new wire to the exact length, install the lower terminal, and hang the wire. In our experience they come pretty close to the right tuning at the dock, but be prepared to go through the last couple of steps in Olivier's rigging instructions when you get the boat sailing to make sure it is right.

Things to be aware of:  There will be minor changes--I believe with any USA based rigger.  Getting ALL the metric based fittings here is extremely difficult, so some things will be switched over to inch sizes.  That requires enlarging some holes in chainplates.  If that bothers you, your only real option is to use an ACMO kit, or rerig in Europe or the French Caribbean, or wait a long time for slow deliveries.  As far as I can tell, inch size rigging fittings are available everywhere, metric sizes are less widely distributed. The lower shroud turnbuckles also end up rotated 90 degrees, so the lifelines no longer go through them. A minor frustration. If it really bothered you, you COULD drill out a new cotter pin hole in the lower stud. If you use Nance and Underwood, try to find a marina with wood docks, or work with them ahead of time to figure out how to protect the wire from damage while it is being handled and dragged on a concrete dock surface.

All the terminals on our new rig are mechanical terminals--except the lower forestay.  A swage is needed here because on the Super Maramu it has to fit up inside the furler, and there are no mechanical fittings of small enough diameter to do this.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Hollywood, FL, USA


Courtney Gorman
 

Thanks Bill for all the great informantion
Cheers
Courtney


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Kinney <cruisingconsulting@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Apr 13, 2021 10:10 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] 2008 Amel 54 rigging

Courntey,

There are several ways to do the rigging on an Amel (or any other boat, for that matter)  You can have the exact dimensions on file, and cut the wires to length at a factory and prepare the end terminals there and ship out the competed product.  This is what ACMO does, and does well.

The standard process that most riggers use is to measure the wires, then prepare the rig at their shop and install it on the boat. There are a couple issues here.  It is very difficult to measure the lengths precisely with the rig up, so most riggers will want the rig down.  Also, there are very few rigging shops that use a proper rotary hammer swaging machine, preferring the much smaller, much less expensive roller swager instead.  A roller swager can certainly make a good sage, but a lot depends on the skill, experience, and careful attention of the operator.

We worked with a rigger who did things a bit differently.

When we re-rigged last year we looked at the ACMO package.  If we were going to install it ourselves, we would certainly have gone that way.  But we were busy with other projects, and the amount of aloft time needed to install a new rig just didn't appeal. Since local riggers make a good piece of their profit on materials, if you come to most of them with a rig on a pallet for installation (i.e., ACMO), it can get expensive.

We used Nance and Underwood in Fort Lauderdale to make and install the new rig.  They have done a LOT of Amel re-rigs, under Joel Potter's tutoring. They know the boats. They have a design for a bespoke bronze turnbuckle they make in-house for the Super Maramu and others that use that furler so can fully replace the forestay fittings inside the furler without compromise. For their work process, mechanical terminals work out very well.  They make up the top end of all the wires at the shop, and leave them a little long. At the boat, they take down one wire at a time, lay it out on the dock, cut the new wire to the exact length, install the lower terminal, and hang the wire. In our experience they come pretty close to the right tuning at the dock, but be prepared to go through the last couple of steps in Olivier's rigging instructions when you get the boat sailing to make sure it is right.

Things to be aware of:  There will be minor changes--I believe with any USA based rigger.  Getting ALL the metric based fittings here is extremely difficult, so some things will be switched over to inch sizes.  That requires enlarging some holes in chainplates.  If that bothers you, your only real option is to use an ACMO kit, or rerig in Europe or the French Caribbean, or wait a long time for slow deliveries.  As far as I can tell, inch size rigging fittings are available everywhere, metric sizes are less widely distributed. The lower shroud turnbuckles also end up rotated 90 degrees, so the lifelines no longer go through them. A minor frustration. If it really bothered you, you COULD drill out a new cotter pin hole in the lower stud. If you use Nance and Underwood, try to find a marina with wood docks, or work with them ahead of time to figure out how to protect the wire from damage while it is being handled and dragged on a concrete dock surface.

All the terminals on our new rig are mechanical terminals--except the lower forestay.  A swage is needed here because on the Super Maramu it has to fit up inside the furler, and there are no mechanical fittings of small enough diameter to do this.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Hollywood, FL, USA


Bill Kinney
 

Courntey,

There are several ways to do the rigging on an Amel (or any other boat, for that matter)  You can have the exact dimensions on file, and cut the wires to length at a factory and prepare the end terminals there and ship out the competed product.  This is what ACMO does, and does well.

The standard process that most riggers use is to measure the wires, then prepare the rig at their shop and install it on the boat. There are a couple issues here.  It is very difficult to measure the lengths precisely with the rig up, so most riggers will want the rig down.  Also, there are very few rigging shops that use a proper rotary hammer swaging machine, preferring the much smaller, much less expensive roller swager instead.  A roller swager can certainly make a good sage, but a lot depends on the skill, experience, and careful attention of the operator.

We worked with a rigger who did things a bit differently.

When we re-rigged last year we looked at the ACMO package.  If we were going to install it ourselves, we would certainly have gone that way.  But we were busy with other projects, and the amount of aloft time needed to install a new rig just didn't appeal. Since local riggers make a good piece of their profit on materials, if you come to most of them with a rig on a pallet for installation (i.e., ACMO), it can get expensive.

We used Nance and Underwood in Fort Lauderdale to make and install the new rig.  They have done a LOT of Amel re-rigs, under Joel Potter's tutoring. They know the boats. They have a design for a bespoke bronze turnbuckle they make in-house for the Super Maramu and others that use that furler so can fully replace the forestay fittings inside the furler without compromise. For their work process, mechanical terminals work out very well.  They make up the top end of all the wires at the shop, and leave them a little long. At the boat, they take down one wire at a time, lay it out on the dock, cut the new wire to the exact length, install the lower terminal, and hang the wire. In our experience they come pretty close to the right tuning at the dock, but be prepared to go through the last couple of steps in Olivier's rigging instructions when you get the boat sailing to make sure it is right.

Things to be aware of:  There will be minor changes--I believe with any USA based rigger.  Getting ALL the metric based fittings here is extremely difficult, so some things will be switched over to inch sizes.  That requires enlarging some holes in chainplates.  If that bothers you, your only real option is to use an ACMO kit, or rerig in Europe or the French Caribbean, or wait a long time for slow deliveries.  As far as I can tell, inch size rigging fittings are available everywhere, metric sizes are less widely distributed. The lower shroud turnbuckles also end up rotated 90 degrees, so the lifelines no longer go through them. A minor frustration. If it really bothered you, you COULD drill out a new cotter pin hole in the lower stud. If you use Nance and Underwood, try to find a marina with wood docks, or work with them ahead of time to figure out how to protect the wire from damage while it is being handled and dragged on a concrete dock surface.

All the terminals on our new rig are mechanical terminals--except the lower forestay.  A swage is needed here because on the Super Maramu it has to fit up inside the furler, and there are no mechanical fittings of small enough diameter to do this.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Hollywood, FL, USA


Courtney Gorman
 

Joel do you have any recommendations about where to have this done? I have a year left before my rig is 15 and would like to plan ahead.
Cheers
Courtney 


-----Original Message-----
From: amelforme <jfpottercys@...>
To: laurensrineke@...; main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Apr 12, 2021 2:02 pm
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] 2008 Amel 54 rigging

Hello Laurens. Long time…
It is best to ask your insurance carrier what limitations of time are placed on your standing rigging. Most insurance companies that do state limitations usually require complete replacement at 15 years of age.
 
Many years ago as a teen ager, I worked as a rigger in Chicago where the boats come out of the water every fall and the top tier racing boats would always have the masts and rigging pulled for deep inspection and storage. I learned a lot from these experiences. The most important thing I learned is that regarding swaged rigging fittings, like the ones on your Amel 54,  they cannot be visually inspected to reliably determine their condition. While a cracked swage fitting means that the rigging has failed and must not be used, a swage fitting can be a day away from failing with no external indication. Why? The swage fails from internal corrosion that generally cannot be seen until a failure has occurred. Again, an incipient failure may not be visible even moments before a total failure.
 
It is for this reason that I recommend that offshore cruising sailing yachts use mechanical end fittings such as Sta-Lok www.stalok.com .
These fittings are actually stronger than the wire they are applied to and, importantly, they do not retain moisture internally which causes the failure of swage fittings. Sta-Lok fittings are stronger and more durable than swage fittings and that is a verifiable fact. Even if your insurance provider does not have time limitations on your current rigging, I would not have sailed my Amel boats I have owned with rigging even a day older than 15 years and I would always replace it with mechanical end fittings.
 
I do not work for Sta-Lok nor any of their agents.
 
Say hello to Rineke. Have fun with your Amel!  
 
All the best,
Joel
 
           JOEL F. POTTER ~ CRUISING YACHT SPECIALIST, L.L.C.
                                         The Experienced AMEL Guy
UNSURPASSED AMEL MARKETING EXPERIENCE AND PRODUCT KNOWLEDGE
                                  Office 954-462-5869  Cell 954-812-2485
 


 

ACMO offers you a choice of either swaged or mechanical fittings. 

If I recall correctly, ACMO charges about 100-200 euro more for mechanical fittings (StaLok type).

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 1:02 PM amelforme <jfpottercys@...> wrote:

Hello Laurens. Long time…

It is best to ask your insurance carrier what limitations of time are placed on your standing rigging. Most insurance companies that do state limitations usually require complete replacement at 15 years of age.

 

Many years ago as a teen ager, I worked as a rigger in Chicago where the boats come out of the water every fall and the top tier racing boats would always have the masts and rigging pulled for deep inspection and storage. I learned a lot from these experiences. The most important thing I learned is that regarding swaged rigging fittings, like the ones on your Amel 54,  they cannot be visually inspected to reliably determine their condition. While a cracked swage fitting means that the rigging has failed and must not be used, a swage fitting can be a day away from failing with no external indication. Why? The swage fails from internal corrosion that generally cannot be seen until a failure has occurred. Again, an incipient failure may not be visible even moments before a total failure.

 

It is for this reason that I recommend that offshore cruising sailing yachts use mechanical end fittings such as Sta-Lok www.stalok.com .

These fittings are actually stronger than the wire they are applied to and, importantly, they do not retain moisture internally which causes the failure of swage fittings. Sta-Lok fittings are stronger and more durable than swage fittings and that is a verifiable fact. Even if your insurance provider does not have time limitations on your current rigging, I would not have sailed my Amel boats I have owned with rigging even a day older than 15 years and I would always replace it with mechanical end fittings.

 

I do not work for Sta-Lok nor any of their agents.

 

Say hello to Rineke. Have fun with your Amel!  

 

All the best,

Joel

 

           JOEL F. POTTER ~ CRUISING YACHT SPECIALIST, L.L.C.

                                         The Experienced AMEL Guy

UNSURPASSED AMEL MARKETING EXPERIENCE AND PRODUCT KNOWLEDGE

                                  Office 954-462-5869  Cell 954-812-2485

 


amelforme
 

Hello Laurens. Long time…

It is best to ask your insurance carrier what limitations of time are placed on your standing rigging. Most insurance companies that do state limitations usually require complete replacement at 15 years of age.

 

Many years ago as a teen ager, I worked as a rigger in Chicago where the boats come out of the water every fall and the top tier racing boats would always have the masts and rigging pulled for deep inspection and storage. I learned a lot from these experiences. The most important thing I learned is that regarding swaged rigging fittings, like the ones on your Amel 54,  they cannot be visually inspected to reliably determine their condition. While a cracked swage fitting means that the rigging has failed and must not be used, a swage fitting can be a day away from failing with no external indication. Why? The swage fails from internal corrosion that generally cannot be seen until a failure has occurred. Again, an incipient failure may not be visible even moments before a total failure.

 

It is for this reason that I recommend that offshore cruising sailing yachts use mechanical end fittings such as Sta-Lok www.stalok.com .

These fittings are actually stronger than the wire they are applied to and, importantly, they do not retain moisture internally which causes the failure of swage fittings. Sta-Lok fittings are stronger and more durable than swage fittings and that is a verifiable fact. Even if your insurance provider does not have time limitations on your current rigging, I would not have sailed my Amel boats I have owned with rigging even a day older than 15 years and I would always replace it with mechanical end fittings.

 

I do not work for Sta-Lok nor any of their agents.

 

Say hello to Rineke. Have fun with your Amel!  

 

All the best,

Joel

 

           JOEL F. POTTER ~ CRUISING YACHT SPECIALIST, L.L.C.

                                         The Experienced AMEL Guy

UNSURPASSED AMEL MARKETING EXPERIENCE AND PRODUCT KNOWLEDGE

                                  Office 954-462-5869  Cell 954-812-2485