#attackedbywhales #newboat WE SOLD THE BOAT! Now what??? Sailing Ocean F... #attackedbywhales #newboat


Stefan Jeukendrup
 

2 pictures showing the result of our 2 hour encounter with five orcas. A beautiful experience but hopefully once in a lifetime.


I contacted Amel, they cannot help us. But local boat builders kindly offered assistance.

Stefan Jeukendrup
sv Malaka Queen

Op 20 aug. 2021 23:08 schreef Martin Birkhoff <mbirkhoff@...>:

Hello Stefan,
 
of course we reported the encounter with the orcas to orcasibericas.com. 

From my point of view it is interesting to collect as much information as possible about comparable orca interactions in a standardised form. Therefore, I have created a draft questionnaire that I would like to coordinate with orcasiberica.com. 

My idea is to make the final version of the questionnaire available through the major sailing associations (SSA, RORC, Royal Ocean Cruising Foundation, Trans-Ocean, etc. and of course the internet) in order to obtain data that can be used for valid statistical analysis. I have already discussed this idea with the Trans-Ocean board and they will support the idea. 
Unfortunately, family matters have prevented me from pursuing this idea further in recent weeks, but I hope to be able to continue soon.

By the way (as a landscape architect and environmental engineer) I have to note that it is no good idea to put diesel, petroleum or chlorox into the sea. Protecting the seas and ecosystems should be a main issue to us.

Martin
SV Mago del Sur - 54#40
Alicante, Spain


Martin Birkhoff
 

Hello Stefan,
 
of course we reported the encounter with the orcas to orcasibericas.com. 

From my point of view it is interesting to collect as much information as possible about comparable orca interactions in a standardised form. Therefore, I have created a draft questionnaire that I would like to coordinate with orcasiberica.com. 

My idea is to make the final version of the questionnaire available through the major sailing associations (SSA, RORC, Royal Ocean Cruising Foundation, Trans-Ocean, etc. and of course the internet) in order to obtain data that can be used for valid statistical analysis. I have already discussed this idea with the Trans-Ocean board and they will support the idea. 
Unfortunately, family matters have prevented me from pursuing this idea further in recent weeks, but I hope to be able to continue soon.

By the way (as a landscape architect and environmental engineer) I have to note that it is no good idea to put diesel, petroleum or chlorox into the sea. Protecting the seas and ecosystems should be a main issue to us.

Martin
SV Mago del Sur - 54#40
Alicante, Spain


eric freedman <kimberlite@...>
 

Clorox also works

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of Avv Frisani
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2021 5:04 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] #attackedbywhales #newboat WE SOLD THE BOAT! Now what??? Sailing Ocean F...

 

someone told me that throwing petrol or diesel into the sea makes them go away.  has anyone ever tried?

 

Pietro frisani

SY Ocean Bird

SM2k#468

Actually in Sardinia (italy)

Inviato da iPhone



Il giorno 18 ago 2021, alle ore 11:09, Stefan Jeukendrup <sjeukendrup@...> ha scritto:

Appologies, I should have searched first before asking questions...this forum is such a treasure of information.
There is Olaf's document about rudder removal:
https://amelyachtowners.groups.io/g/main/files/AMEL%20SM2K%20Rudder%20Removal/Rudder%20removal%20at%20a%20AMEL%20Super%20Maramu%202000.pdf

Olaf thank you so much! 

Stefan Jeukendrup
sv Malaka Queen
SM2k #348 @ Kilkeel, Northern Ireland


Ann-Sofie, S/Y Lady Annila <ann-sofie@...>
 

If you do you brake a lot of environmental laws.
Follow the instructions on www.orcaiberica.org is better.

Regards
Ann-Sofie Svanberg


Skickat från min iPhone

19/08/2021 kl. 11:03 skrev Avv Frisani <p.frisani@...>:


someone told me that throwing petrol or diesel into the sea makes them go away.  has anyone ever tried?

Pietro frisani
SY Ocean Bird
SM2k#468
Actually in Sardinia (italy)

Inviato da iPhone

Il giorno 18 ago 2021, alle ore 11:09, Stefan Jeukendrup <sjeukendrup@...> ha scritto:

Appologies, I should have searched first before asking questions...this forum is such a treasure of information.
There is Olaf's document about rudder removal:
https://amelyachtowners.groups.io/g/main/files/AMEL%20SM2K%20Rudder%20Removal/Rudder%20removal%20at%20a%20AMEL%20Super%20Maramu%202000.pdf

Olaf thank you so much! 

Stefan Jeukendrup
sv Malaka Queen
SM2k #348 @ Kilkeel, Northern Ireland


Avv Frisani
 

someone told me that throwing petrol or diesel into the sea makes them go away.  has anyone ever tried?

Pietro frisani
SY Ocean Bird
SM2k#468
Actually in Sardinia (italy)

Inviato da iPhone

Il giorno 18 ago 2021, alle ore 11:09, Stefan Jeukendrup <sjeukendrup@...> ha scritto:

Appologies, I should have searched first before asking questions...this forum is such a treasure of information.
There is Olaf's document about rudder removal:
https://amelyachtowners.groups.io/g/main/files/AMEL%20SM2K%20Rudder%20Removal/Rudder%20removal%20at%20a%20AMEL%20Super%20Maramu%202000.pdf

Olaf thank you so much! 

Stefan Jeukendrup
sv Malaka Queen
SM2k #348 @ Kilkeel, Northern Ireland


Stefan Jeukendrup
 

Appologies, I should have searched first before asking questions...this forum is such a treasure of information.
There is Olaf's document about rudder removal:
https://amelyachtowners.groups.io/g/main/files/AMEL%20SM2K%20Rudder%20Removal/Rudder%20removal%20at%20a%20AMEL%20Super%20Maramu%202000.pdf

Olaf thank you so much! 

Stefan Jeukendrup
sv Malaka Queen
SM2k #348 @ Kilkeel, Northern Ireland


Stefan Jeukendrup
 

Dear group

Martins findings are very interesting to read

Similar to our encounter with likely the same  group of orcas.

Here is a presentation by the local researcher at Barbate https://youtu.be/AKwtzBUxBk8

Martin, did you report your case to gt.orcas.ibericas@... ?



Which brings me to the REPAIR of our damaged rudder as a replacement rudder is no longer available..

Has anone taken the rudder off?

Has anyone repaired it after significant damage?



Thank you in advance for your comments and help,



Stefan jeukendrup

svMalaka Queen

SM2k #348 @ Kilkeel, Northern Ireland



Op 20-07-2021 om 15:31 schreef Martin Birkhoff:

Hi All,

yesterday we had some interaction with Orcas some 5-7 miles west of Tarifa, Spain.

Some informations:

- in our opinion they were a female adult and a juvenile. 
- The animals did not appear aggressive. They did not undertake any activities directed against the hull. Some bumps against the hull were rather unintentional. All their attention was focused on the rudder.
- The adult seemed to introduce the juvenile to an exciting game: "push the rudder"
- One catamaran two miles off was affected some 45 to 50 minutes without interruption first. A motor vessel came to help and made circles around the catamaran to attract or disturb the animals. After this the animals visited our boat to continue their game. The interaction lasted more or less the 45-50 minutes in total too with two breaks of 10 minutes each.

Damage
- Lever arm of rudder sensor was twisted (we could fix it correctly without any problems.)
- Rudder stuffing box leaking; it leaked surprisingly badly. (Could be tightened on site). 
- no damage at the rudder (we checked it today)

Remarks concerning our own behaviour
- The fact whether our echo sounder was active or not did not seem to have any influence on the animals. 
- Running the engine clearly attracted the animals.
- Whether the animals could perceive us or not did not seem to have any influence on their behaviour.
- The strategy of shutting down all systems and the engine and playing "dead" did not convince us.
- The strategy of an catamara close too us to quickly follow the planned course under engine seems to be more successful. It had by far the shortest Orca contact by the same animals, maybe 3-5 minutes. We don't know whether the crew was going under autopilot or steering manually during the contact. From our own experience, we can say that hand steering would have been possible with proper caution. The rudder pressure exerted by the Orcas was not extremely strong.
 
Regards

Martin
Mago del Sur - 54#40
La Línea, Spain
 
 


Martin Birkhoff
 

Hi All,

yesterday we had some interaction with Orcas some 5-7 miles west of Tarifa, Spain.

Some informations:

- in our opinion they were a female adult and a juvenile. 
- The animals did not appear aggressive. They did not undertake any activities directed against the hull. Some bumps against the hull were rather unintentional. All their attention was focused on the rudder.
- The adult seemed to introduce the juvenile to an exciting game: "push the rudder"
- One catamaran two miles off was affected some 45 to 50 minutes without interruption first. A motor vessel came to help and made circles around the catamaran to attract or disturb the animals. After this the animals visited our boat to continue their game. The interaction lasted more or less the 45-50 minutes in total too with two breaks of 10 minutes each.

Damage
- Lever arm of rudder sensor was twisted (we could fix it correctly without any problems.)
- Rudder stuffing box leaking; it leaked surprisingly badly. (Could be tightened on site). 
- no damage at the rudder (we checked it today)

Remarks concerning our own behaviour
- The fact whether our echo sounder was active or not did not seem to have any influence on the animals. 
- Running the engine clearly attracted the animals.
- Whether the animals could perceive us or not did not seem to have any influence on their behaviour.
- The strategy of shutting down all systems and the engine and playing "dead" did not convince us.
- The strategy of an catamara close too us to quickly follow the planned course under engine seems to be more successful. It had by far the shortest Orca contact by the same animals, maybe 3-5 minutes. We don't know whether the crew was going under autopilot or steering manually during the contact. From our own experience, we can say that hand steering would have been possible with proper caution. The rudder pressure exerted by the Orcas was not extremely strong.
 
Regards

Martin
Mago del Sur - 54#40
La Línea, Spain
 
 


Stefan Jeukendrup
 

Hi Dean

Interesting indeed.

Are they just playing, might be, but they are also territorial, highly sensitive and very intelligent.


Here is a link to a presentation by the local orca researcher near Barbate Ruth Esteban.

Ruths answer is "we do not know what is causing this disruptive behaviour"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKwtzBUxBk8


Stefan Jeukendrup

sv Malaka Queen

SM2k #348 @ Porto Portugal





Op 07-07-2021 om 00:54 schreef Dean Davenport:

Interesting article (link below) on the subject of recent Orca attacks on boats off Spain and Portugal that I thought you may find interesting.

https://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2020/11/15/killer-whales-attacking-boats-for-fun/

Kind Regards

Dean
Prospective Amel owner



-----Original Message-----
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
Sent: Tuesday, 6 July 2021 5:32 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] #attackedbywhales #newboat WE SOLD THE BOAT! Now what??? Sailing Ocean F...

Hi Stefan, you must be very relaxed people for that not to be frightening. Your comment about the agreed course is very interesting, likewise being escorted out of their area. I was once herded away from a big pod of big dolphins by two of the largest. There were quite a number of young with the pod. The two herders would let us within 500 meters of the main pod. Obviously we were sensitive to their behaviour and read what they expected of us. Perhaps you have identified what is going on with these Orca, and what needs to be done to avoid damage. Perhaps rapid interpretation of their "requirements of us" may avoid the worst damage????.
There is a scientist, Ingrid Visser, in New Zealand who has made a lifetime study of Orca. I will contact her and see what she may know about this sort of behaviour.
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
On 06 July 2021 at 03:13 Stefan Jeukendrup <sjeukendrup@...> wrote:


Thanks for your answer,


Actually it was not frighting at all and we enjoyed this once in a
lifetime close encounter.

The second hour we (= the orcas and the helmsman) "agreed" on a course
of 280 and the group escorted us out of their territory.

I felt they where treating us gently and it is probably just one thart
has the strange habit of biting off chunks of rudders....


Almost the same happened to the mentioned couple in Gibraltar.


All is good,


Stefan Jeukendrup

SM2k #348 @ currently at Cabo Vincente Portugal


Op 05-07-2021 om 15:59 schreef Justin Maguire:
This is. On the third Amel I know if that has had its rudders destroyed… WHAT THE HELL!?!!

I hope you are ok and we’re able to makekk no it to port safely.
That sounds frightening… especially them “pushing the boat around”…
😳

Cheers,
-Justin
On Jul 5, 2021, at 10:50, Stefan Jeukendrup <sjeukendrup@...> wrote:

Warning:


Yesterday on the 100m line between Barbate and de strait of Gibraltar we where targeted by 3 orcas and a young.

We spoke to another couple in Gibraltar that just experienced the same, they came from the Azores.


The group orcas entertained us for 2 hours by pushing the boat around in circles and at the same time they bit off the lower section of the rudder.

Rudder is still functional but anodes and the surounding fiberglass are gone.


Does anyone know wether it is possible to remove the rudder of a Supermaramu 2000 in the water?


Thank you in advance for your help,


Stefan Jeukendrup

SM2k #345 @Cabo Vincente Portugal















<html>
<head>
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</head>
<body>
<div style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial; width: 550px;">
<b>IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER - THIS MAY AFFECT YOUR LEGAL RIGHTS:</b>
<p></p>
Because this document has been prepared without consideration
of any specific clients investment objectives, financial situation or
needs, a Bell Potter Securities Limited investment adviser should be
consulted before any investment decision is made.
<p></p>
While this document is based on the information from sources which are
considered reliable, Bell Potter Securities Limited, its directors,
employees and consultants do not represent, warrant or guarantee,
expressly or impliedly, that the information contained in this document
is complete or accurate.
<p></p>
Bell Potter Securities Limited does not accept any responsibility to
inform you of any matter that subsequently comes to its notice, which
may affect any of the information contained in this document.
<p></p>
This document is a private communication to clients and is not intended
for public circulation or for the use of any third party, without the
prior approval of Bell Potter Securities.
<p></p>
Disclosure of Interest: Bell Potter Securities Limited receives
commission from dealing in securities and its authorised representatives,
or introducers of business, may directly share in this commission. Bell
Potter Securities and its associates may hold shares in the companies
recommended.
<p></p>
<b>Bell Potter Securities Limited ABN 25 006 390 772 AFS Licence No. 243480</b>
</div>
</body>
</html>



Dean Davenport <ddavenport@...>
 

Interesting article (link below) on the subject of recent Orca attacks on boats off Spain and Portugal that I thought you may find interesting.

https://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2020/11/15/killer-whales-attacking-boats-for-fun/

Kind Regards

Dean
Prospective Amel owner

-----Original Message-----
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
Sent: Tuesday, 6 July 2021 5:32 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] #attackedbywhales #newboat WE SOLD THE BOAT! Now what??? Sailing Ocean F...

Hi Stefan, you must be very relaxed people for that not to be frightening. Your comment about the agreed course is very interesting, likewise being escorted out of their area. I was once herded away from a big pod of big dolphins by two of the largest. There were quite a number of young with the pod. The two herders would let us within 500 meters of the main pod. Obviously we were sensitive to their behaviour and read what they expected of us. Perhaps you have identified what is going on with these Orca, and what needs to be done to avoid damage. Perhaps rapid interpretation of their "requirements of us" may avoid the worst damage????.
There is a scientist, Ingrid Visser, in New Zealand who has made a lifetime study of Orca. I will contact her and see what she may know about this sort of behaviour.
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
On 06 July 2021 at 03:13 Stefan Jeukendrup <sjeukendrup@...> wrote:


Thanks for your answer,


Actually it was not frighting at all and we enjoyed this once in a
lifetime close encounter.

The second hour we (= the orcas and the helmsman) "agreed" on a course
of 280 and the group escorted us out of their territory.

I felt they where treating us gently and it is probably just one thart
has the strange habit of biting off chunks of rudders....


Almost the same happened to the mentioned couple in Gibraltar.


All is good,


Stefan Jeukendrup

SM2k #348 @ currently at Cabo Vincente Portugal


Op 05-07-2021 om 15:59 schreef Justin Maguire:
This is. On the third Amel I know if that has had its rudders destroyed… WHAT THE HELL!?!!

I hope you are ok and we’re able to makekk no it to port safely.
That sounds frightening… especially them “pushing the boat around”…
😳

Cheers,
-Justin
On Jul 5, 2021, at 10:50, Stefan Jeukendrup <sjeukendrup@...> wrote:

Warning:


Yesterday on the 100m line between Barbate and de strait of Gibraltar we where targeted by 3 orcas and a young.

We spoke to another couple in Gibraltar that just experienced the same, they came from the Azores.


The group orcas entertained us for 2 hours by pushing the boat around in circles and at the same time they bit off the lower section of the rudder.

Rudder is still functional but anodes and the surounding fiberglass are gone.


Does anyone know wether it is possible to remove the rudder of a Supermaramu 2000 in the water?


Thank you in advance for your help,


Stefan Jeukendrup

SM2k #345 @Cabo Vincente Portugal


















<html>
<head>
<title></title>
</head>
<body>
<div style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial; width: 550px;">
<b>IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER - THIS MAY AFFECT YOUR LEGAL RIGHTS:</b>
<p></p>
Because this document has been prepared without consideration
of any specific clients investment objectives, financial situation or
needs, a Bell Potter Securities Limited investment adviser should be
consulted before any investment decision is made.
<p></p>
While this document is based on the information from sources which are
considered reliable, Bell Potter Securities Limited, its directors,
employees and consultants do not represent, warrant or guarantee,
expressly or impliedly, that the information contained in this document
is complete or accurate.
<p></p>
Bell Potter Securities Limited does not accept any responsibility to
inform you of any matter that subsequently comes to its notice, which
may affect any of the information contained in this document.
<p></p>
This document is a private communication to clients and is not intended
for public circulation or for the use of any third party, without the
prior approval of Bell Potter Securities.
<p></p>
Disclosure of Interest: Bell Potter Securities Limited receives
commission from dealing in securities and its authorised representatives,
or introducers of business, may directly share in this commission. Bell
Potter Securities and its associates may hold shares in the companies
recommended.
<p></p>
<b>Bell Potter Securities Limited ABN 25 006 390 772 AFS Licence No. 243480</b>
</div>
</body>
</html>


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Stefan, you must be very relaxed people for that not to be frightening. Your comment about the agreed course is very interesting, likewise being escorted out of their area. I was once herded away from a big pod of big dolphins by two of the largest. There were quite a number of young with the pod. The two herders would let us within 500 meters of the main pod. Obviously we were sensitive to their behaviour and read what they expected of us. Perhaps you have identified what is going on with these Orca, and what needs to be done to avoid damage. Perhaps rapid interpretation of their "requirements of us" may avoid the worst damage????.
There is a scientist, Ingrid Visser, in New Zealand who has made a lifetime study of Orca. I will contact her and see what she may know about this sort of behaviour.
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl

On 06 July 2021 at 03:13 Stefan Jeukendrup <sjeukendrup@...> wrote:


Thanks for your answer,


Actually it was not frighting at all and we enjoyed this once in a
lifetime close encounter.

The second hour we (= the orcas and the helmsman) "agreed" on a course
of 280 and the group escorted us out of their territory.

I felt they where treating us gently and it is probably just one thart
has the strange habit of biting off chunks of rudders....


Almost the same happened to the mentioned couple in Gibraltar.


All is good,


Stefan Jeukendrup

SM2k #348 @ currently at Cabo Vincente Portugal


Op 05-07-2021 om 15:59 schreef Justin Maguire:
This is. On the third Amel I know if that has had its rudders destroyed… WHAT THE HELL!?!!

I hope you are ok and we’re able to makekk no it to port safely. That sounds frightening… especially them “pushing the boat around”… 😳

Cheers,
-Justin
On Jul 5, 2021, at 10:50, Stefan Jeukendrup <sjeukendrup@...> wrote:

Warning:


Yesterday on the 100m line between Barbate and de strait of Gibraltar we where targeted by 3 orcas and a young.

We spoke to another couple in Gibraltar that just experienced the same, they came from the Azores.


The group orcas entertained us for 2 hours by pushing the boat around in circles and at the same time they bit off the lower section of the rudder.

Rudder is still functional but anodes and the surounding fiberglass are gone.


Does anyone know wether it is possible to remove the rudder of a Supermaramu 2000 in the water?


Thank you in advance for your help,


Stefan Jeukendrup

SM2k #345 @Cabo Vincente Portugal














Ann-Sofie, S/Y Lady Annila <ann-sofie@...>
 

I would recomend you to turn around and go back to Portimao, there is a lifting possibilities and good crafts men that can help you.
We have spent the last 4 winters on Rosa Cabral e Soares yard and we have contacts that can help you with the repair.

Let me know if you want further info.

Regards
Ann-Sofie & Jonas
S/Y Lady Annila
SM232, 1998
Present in La Linea, Spain.


Skickat från min iPhone

05/07/2021 kl. 17:14 skrev Stefan Jeukendrup <sjeukendrup@...>:

Thanks for your answer,


Actually it was not frighting at all and we enjoyed this once in a lifetime close encounter.

The second hour we (= the orcas and the helmsman) "agreed" on a course of 280 and the group escorted us out of their territory.

I felt they where treating us gently and it is probably just one thart has the strange habit of biting off chunks of rudders....


Almost the same happened to the mentioned couple in Gibraltar.


All is good,


Stefan Jeukendrup

SM2k #348 @ currently at Cabo Vincente Portugal


Op 05-07-2021 om 15:59 schreef Justin Maguire:
This is. On the third Amel I know if that has had its rudders destroyed… WHAT THE HELL!?!!

I hope you are ok and we’re able to makekk no it to port safely. That sounds frightening… especially them “pushing the boat around”… 😳

Cheers,
-Justin
On Jul 5, 2021, at 10:50, Stefan Jeukendrup <sjeukendrup@...> wrote:
Warning:


Yesterday on the 100m line between Barbate and de strait of Gibraltar we where targeted by 3 orcas and a young.

We spoke to another couple in Gibraltar that just experienced the same, they came from the Azores.


The group orcas entertained us for 2 hours by pushing the boat around in circles and at the same time they bit off the lower section of the rudder.

Rudder is still functional but anodes and the surounding fiberglass are gone.


Does anyone know wether it is possible to remove the rudder of a Supermaramu 2000 in the water?


Thank you in advance for your help,


Stefan Jeukendrup

SM2k #345 @Cabo Vincente Portugal













Stefan Jeukendrup
 

Thanks for your answer,


Actually it was not frighting at all and we enjoyed this once in a lifetime close encounter.

The second hour we (= the orcas and the helmsman) "agreed" on a course of 280 and the group escorted us out of their territory.

I felt they where treating us gently and it is probably just one thart has the strange habit of biting off chunks of rudders....


Almost the same happened to the mentioned couple in Gibraltar.


All is good,


Stefan Jeukendrup

SM2k #348 @ currently at Cabo Vincente Portugal


Op 05-07-2021 om 15:59 schreef Justin Maguire:

This is. On the third Amel I know if that has had its rudders destroyed… WHAT THE HELL!?!!

I hope you are ok and we’re able to makekk no it to port safely. That sounds frightening… especially them “pushing the boat around”… 😳

Cheers,
-Justin
On Jul 5, 2021, at 10:50, Stefan Jeukendrup <sjeukendrup@...> wrote:

Warning:


Yesterday on the 100m line between Barbate and de strait of Gibraltar we where targeted by 3 orcas and a young.

We spoke to another couple in Gibraltar that just experienced the same, they came from the Azores.


The group orcas entertained us for 2 hours by pushing the boat around in circles and at the same time they bit off the lower section of the rudder.

Rudder is still functional but anodes and the surounding fiberglass are gone.


Does anyone know wether it is possible to remove the rudder of a Supermaramu 2000 in the water?


Thank you in advance for your help,


Stefan Jeukendrup

SM2k #345 @Cabo Vincente Portugal









Justin Maguire
 

This is. On the third Amel I know if that has had its rudders destroyed… WHAT THE HELL!?!!

I hope you are ok and we’re able to makekk no it to port safely. That sounds frightening… especially them “pushing the boat around”… 😳

Cheers,
-Justin

On Jul 5, 2021, at 10:50, Stefan Jeukendrup <sjeukendrup@...> wrote:

Warning:


Yesterday on the 100m line between Barbate and de strait of Gibraltar we where targeted by 3 orcas and a young.

We spoke to another couple in Gibraltar that just experienced the same, they came from the Azores.


The group orcas entertained us for 2 hours by pushing the boat around in circles and at the same time they bit off the lower section of the rudder.

Rudder is still functional but anodes and the surounding fiberglass are gone.


Does anyone know wether it is possible to remove the rudder of a Supermaramu 2000 in the water?


Thank you in advance for your help,


Stefan Jeukendrup

SM2k #345 @Cabo Vincente Portugal








Stefan Jeukendrup
 

Warning:


Yesterday on the 100m line between Barbate and de strait of Gibraltar we where targeted by 3 orcas and a young.

We spoke to another couple in Gibraltar that just experienced the same, they came from the Azores.


The group orcas entertained us for 2 hours by pushing the boat around in circles and at the same time they bit off the lower section of the rudder.

Rudder is still functional but anodes and the surounding fiberglass are gone.


Does anyone know wether it is possible to remove the rudder of a Supermaramu 2000 in the water?


Thank you in advance for your help,


Stefan Jeukendrup

SM2k #345 @Cabo Vincente Portugal


Scott SV Tengah
 

One thing I really love about the ketches is that the individual sails are much smaller. In my three years and 25,000 miles so far, both the Genoa and Main electric furling systems have failed. The main necessitated manual outhaul furling (the harder half) and the Genoa required me to go forward to the bow at night and wrestle the Genoa down. 

There was some argument that the modern sail handling systems are now bulletproof. I am not sure about the improvements to the main furling system, given the motor is a heavy duty truck starting motor, but my Genoa furler is the newest generation and was less than a year old and still failed.

As a young, fit but not herculean couple, small individual sails gives us comfort for when the next failure happens. 

An aside is the fuel capacity. I really love the 900liters on our A54. When we had to do the 4848 nm Panama-Hawaii passage due to covid, we admittedly used little of that fuel because of our efficient solar/lithium system, the parasailor, code zero and a LOT of luck, but I would have felt nervous with less given that the trades were more than 1500nm away. That was at the start of covid and hopefully we don't experience that again, but even in the remote Tuamotus, it's nice to not have to think about when we can get fuel or have to carry it in jerry cans.

Finally, the mizzen could effectively replace your rudder, I believe. I'm sure a more skilled sailor could do something similar with just a main/Genoa, but it's just so damn easy to steer the boat with the mizzen.

The A50/A60 is VERY VERY nice inside and The Admiral fell in love when we saw it at the Annapolis show. It appropriately responds to the evolving market, but it seems we are no longer "the market" given our plans. I guess we're getting old. :)

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi all, while the twin rudders on the 50 may look more vulnerable I doubt if any rudder could resist an orca attack. It is notable that despite the impact on the rudders reportedly the hull suffered no damage where the rudder stocks pass through.

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 30 June 2021 at 20:40 Steven Nieman <stefnieman@...> wrote:

Hi,
The attacks by the Orca’s around Portugal and around the bend into the Med is not a one time incident. The authorities think it’s a game by young macho Orca’s. There are around 10 incidents reported. Some say to stop the boat and just sit it out, others say to play music and 1 guy said it stopped when he started to sing to them😀😀
S.Nieman
Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad

Op 30 jun. 2021 om 08:31 heeft Dimitris Krasopoulos <dkrasopoulos@...> het volgende geschreven:

It is a pity that the new Amel is mentioned as a Med boat. The delivery from La Rochelle in the Atlantic Ocean to the Med is an ocean passage or a Mediterranee adventure? The whale attack close to Gilbrartar is a coincidence? 

It seems to me that the focus to a reliable boat is distorted for marketing reasons. Bad sea conditions are everywhere even in the Med. 

Στάλθηκε από το iPhone of Dimitris Krasopoulos 

On Jun 30, 2021, at 6:23 AM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:

Hi, I would put hull form at the top. The modern flying wedges are fast and the voluminous stern cockpit fashionable and popular,but I suspect ( I am a sailor not a Naval architect) not as sea kindly, nor I suspect nearly as controllable running in big winds and seas. The SM bow holds up well, doesn't dig in causing slewing. The SM tracks incredibly well off the wind in big seas.. Likewise the ketch rig. Reducing sail is a dream as is increasing it.

.Not criticizing the 50 in any way. It was just built to a different design brief to a particular target market. As we have come to expect from Amel, they have done it well.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 30 June 2021 at 10:29 Justin Maguire <justin_maguire@...> wrote:

I’d love to know - beyond who they market to - what changes make these new boats less seaworthy world cruisers? 

The only three specific features that are regularly brought up are:
- twin rudders without the protected prop
- the loss of the ketch rig. 
- the more modern hull form that bashes more up wind (though is nicer downwind)

Build quality is as good or arguably better..

Ease of systems maintenance is as good or arguably better. 

I’m genuinely curious to learn here 



 

On Jun 29, 2021, at 17:39, Alan Leslie <s.v.elyse@...> wrote:

Absolutely agree with all of that.
Judith and I visited Amel in La Rochelle in 2019 and went for a sail on the 50.
Judith fell in love with it's creature comforts and layout and now says we'll buy one when we win the lottery!
I have all the above misgivings about it as an ocean crosser, but then maybe those days are over and as a coastal short passage cruiser the 50 would be ideal.
Certainly Antoine Riotin said the same things to me  - the target market for Amel has changed; it is no longer the circumnavigator as it was in Henri Amels day.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437 


 


 


 


 


Paul Harries
 

Amel should consider giving Bill free long term loan use of an A50 as a demonstrator boat. Not only does Bill deserve recognition for his services to Amel but I can think of no better way for Amel to propogate the A50 knowledge database.


On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 12:12 PM, CW Bill Rouse wrote:
This is certainly a healthy discussion. I believe there are additional new and beneficial benefits of the Amel 50 twin rudder system. This may be a little confusing so I will try to describe:
 
Assuming the A-50 owner selected dual autopilots
  1. Either rudder can operate independently with each rudder's independent autopilot 
    1. Or each rudder's independent emergency tiller. 
  2. Both rudders can operate together with either autopilot
    1. Or together with the  independent emergency tiller connected to either quadrant
  3. The helm cables are connected to the port rudder quadrant, which can operate independently of the starboard rudder. 
  4. There is a removable stainless steel bar that connects the two quadrants. So in some emergencies, the Port rudder can be steered by the helm, its independent autopilot, or its independent tiller.
Regarding rudder failures on ocean crossings, it is too common with an "unmentioned brand" but virtually unheard of with Amel. What is more common is the loss of the autopilot, and according to Jimmy Cornell (founder of the ARC), autopilot failure happens with 5-10% of ocean crossings. I always recommend either a complete autopilot redundancy or a complete set of spares when crossing an ocean. I also recommend that the autopilot drive be installed on the quadrant rather than only at the helm.
 
I believe that the A-50 with dual autopilots includes all of my usual client recommendations for safety while crossing oceans. Additionally, Amel has added to the A50  the following:
  1. Watertight steering compartment with a separate bilge pump and alarm
  2. Dual Rudder Reference, but also each one on its rudder quadrants
  3. Dual Autopilot hydraulic pump & drive, but also each one on its rudder quadrants
  4. A new seal for the rudder post, replacing the older packing (I am not sure what this is and would love to know more...maybe an A50 owner will comment on this photo:
I absolutely love and respect the circa 70-80s design of the Amel rudder which I believe will be found on most of these models: Kirk, Sharki, Maramu, Santorin, Super Maramu, A54, A55, and A64. 
 
I also believe that the A50 rudder system has added to Amel's longtime tradition of reliability of its rudder.
 
Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
 
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
 
View My Training Calendar

On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 10:06 AM Aldo Roldan via groups.io <aroldan1796=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
This is all great news for the wallet of present owners of Amel ketches:  if Amel has, by statement of its officers,  indirectly endorsed the ketches as THE blue water, ocean-crossing vessel, which they no longer manufacture, stand to reason that they will become increasingly sought after by the crowd that wants just that: world cruising.  With more sailors falling into the current demographics of the world cruiser, as the world ages, Amel ketches will become a priceless gem!
 
AldoR
SV Araucaria 
Amel55 hull 36
 
ps.  No, I am not entertaining offers to sell mine.  I will hold onto it for as long as I can!

On Jun 30, 2021, at 8:59 AM, Patrick McAneny via groups.io <sailw32=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

It appears as though the rudders sprang open like a clam shell,as if there was tension , when released they assumed their natural position. What would be the reason for not adding layers of fiberglass in addition to the glue, to bond the rudder halves together, making them more robust. Are the rudders on the SM not  fiber glassed together ? 
Pat
SM Shenanigans
Sassafras River, Md.


-----Original Message-----
From: Billy Newport <billy@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Jun 30, 2021 6:07 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] #attackedbywhales #newboat WE SOLD THE BOAT! Now what??? Sailing Ocean F...

Is the rudder on the 55 the same as the 50? 2 shells glued together?

Thanks
Billy (55#56)

 

 


 
--
Paul Harries
Prospective Amel Buyer


John Clanton
 

Consider the cost of a redundant autopilot while at the dock verses how much you would be willing to pay for a second autopilot when half way across the Pacific.



Disclaimer

The information contained in this communication from the sender is confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others authorized to receive it. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information is strictly prohibited.


 

This is certainly a healthy discussion. I believe there are additional new and beneficial benefits of the Amel 50 twin rudder system. This may be a little confusing so I will try to describe:

Assuming the A-50 owner selected dual autopilots
  1. Either rudder can operate independently with each rudder's independent autopilot 
    1. Or each rudder's independent emergency tiller. 
  2. Both rudders can operate together with either autopilot
    1. Or together with the  independent emergency tiller connected to either quadrant
  3. The helm cables are connected to the port rudder quadrant, which can operate independently of the starboard rudder. 
  4. There is a removable stainless steel bar that connects the two quadrants. So in some emergencies, the Port rudder can be steered by the helm, its independent autopilot, or its independent tiller.
Regarding rudder failures on ocean crossings, it is too common with an "unmentioned brand" but virtually unheard of with Amel. What is more common is the loss of the autopilot, and according to Jimmy Cornell (founder of the ARC), autopilot failure happens with 5-10% of ocean crossings. I always recommend either a complete autopilot redundancy or a complete set of spares when crossing an ocean. I also recommend that the autopilot drive be installed on the quadrant rather than only at the helm.

I believe that the A-50 with dual autopilots includes all of my usual client recommendations for safety while crossing oceans. Additionally, Amel has added to the A50  the following:
  1. Watertight steering compartment with a separate bilge pump and alarm
  2. Dual Rudder Reference, but also each one on its rudder quadrants
  3. Dual Autopilot hydraulic pump & drive, but also each one on its rudder quadrants
  4. A new seal for the rudder post, replacing the older packing (I am not sure what this is and would love to know more...maybe an A50 owner will comment on this photo:
image.png
I absolutely love and respect the circa 70-80s design of the Amel rudder which I believe will be found on most of these models: Kirk, Sharki, Maramu, Santorin, Super Maramu, A54, A55, and A64. 

I also believe that the A50 rudder system has added to Amel's longtime tradition of reliability of its rudder.

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 10:06 AM Aldo Roldan via groups.io <aroldan1796=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
This is all great news for the wallet of present owners of Amel ketches:  if Amel has, by statement of its officers,  indirectly endorsed the ketches as THE blue water, ocean-crossing vessel, which they no longer manufacture, stand to reason that they will become increasingly sought after by the crowd that wants just that: world cruising.  With more sailors falling into the current demographics of the world cruiser, as the world ages, Amel ketches will become a priceless gem!

AldoR
SV Araucaria 
Amel55 hull 36

ps.  No, I am not entertaining offers to sell mine.  I will hold onto it for as long as I can!

On Jun 30, 2021, at 8:59 AM, Patrick McAneny via groups.io <sailw32=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:


It appears as though the rudders sprang open like a clam shell,as if there was tension , when released they assumed their natural position. What would be the reason for not adding layers of fiberglass in addition to the glue, to bond the rudder halves together, making them more robust. Are the rudders on the SM not  fiber glassed together ? 
Pat
SM Shenanigans
Sassafras River, Md.


-----Original Message-----
From: Billy Newport <billy@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Jun 30, 2021 6:07 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] #attackedbywhales #newboat WE SOLD THE BOAT! Now what??? Sailing Ocean F...

Is the rudder on the 55 the same as the 50? 2 shells glued together?

Thanks
Billy (55#56)