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Wind generators
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I thought I would consult the group. A fountain of knowledge for sure.
My recent sailing included some windy conditions in the Cyclades with gusts in excess of 60kn. My Rutland 1200 wind generators burned out, the braking system could not hold them. I am fed up with the brand, but I still want one wind generator if not two. I find that on passage they are great especially in windy conditions when the autopilot is working hard. The batteries are full. I know that solar is better I know that Lithium is better But for the moment I want to stick with my AGM’s and I want to stick with wind generators. I am considering D400 Wind generator I am also considering replacing my Solar Innova 265w x 2 panels with LG NeONR 390w panels that are only 10cm longer. The questions are: 1. Which wind generator is the best? 2. Which brand of solar panel? Current size 1642 x 994 mm 265w The LG will fit 1740 x 1042 mm 390w Nick S/Y Amelia AML 54-019 Back in Patmos enjoying glorious conditions of 15-20kn, clear water, cool nights.
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Alain Durante <info@...>
Nick,
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You should consider the Superwind 350 or 353, which is in my opinion the best wind generator on the market. The 353 has new features in case of very strong wind. I will have one soon on my 54. Cordialement, Alain Durante S/Y Meige AMEL54-021 currently in Antibes, south of France
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De : main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> De la part de ngtnewington Newington via groups.io Envoyé : vendredi 20 août 2021 12:04 À : main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Objet : [AmelYachtOwners] Wind generators I thought I would consult the group. A fountain of knowledge for sure. My recent sailing included some windy conditions in the Cyclades with gusts in excess of 60kn. My Rutland 1200 wind generators burned out, the braking system could not hold them. I am fed up with the brand, but I still want one wind generator if not two. I find that on passage they are great especially in windy conditions when the autopilot is working hard. The batteries are full. I know that solar is better I know that Lithium is better But for the moment I want to stick with my AGM’s and I want to stick with wind generators. I am considering D400 Wind generator I am also considering replacing my Solar Innova 265w x 2 panels with LG NeONR 390w panels that are only 10cm longer. The questions are: 1. Which wind generator is the best? 2. Which brand of solar panel? Current size 1642 x 994 mm 265w The LG will fit 1740 x 1042 mm 390w Nick S/Y Amelia AML 54-019 Back in Patmos enjoying glorious conditions of 15-20kn, clear water, cool nights.
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One wind generator to consider is Superwind- German made.
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One key advantage is that the blades feather when the wind is high or gusting. The assists the brake and spills wind easily. It is also less noisy than many other wind generators. We had one on our previous yacht and found it very good. They are not the cheapest around. But you pay for what you get. Ross Hickey SV Intrepid Kiwi SM2K #356
On Friday, August 20, 2021, 1:03 PM, ngtnewington Newington via groups.io <ngtnewington@...> wrote:
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Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222 <Bijorka@...>
He Nick i think superwind are the best. have you ever thought about a hydrogenerator? Elja Röllinghoff SM Balu 222 Von meinem iPhone gesendet
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Matt & Michelle
I cannot comment on the wind generators due to lack of experience. I am looking forward to what the group says.
For the solar panels, be careful focusing too much on the advertised wattage output. The output is STC (Standard Test Condition) output. This means it is in the factory in a test lab, at a low temperature, avoiding heat degradation, and using artificial lights to measure solar output. I valuable measure for quality control, maybe a bit disingenuous on the marketing side. Note that for marketing purposes you can bump up the advertised output of the panel by adding one row of cells. Your panel output looks very high compared to others, but your panel dimensions grew by 6-7 inches (15.24 cm, 576 pixels, 0.03 rods). A more reasonable measure of the output of the panel is NOMT (Nominal Operating Module Temperature). This test is more accurate for homeowners and cruisers with a set temp of 40-45C and controlled 8000W/m^2 radiation. All this data is on the product datasheet. With NOMT (sometimes called NOCT), you can calculate output in terms of area W/m^2. With limited area on our boats, we obviously want to make this number as high as it can be. This may help you weed many of the panels on the market. The highest W output per m^2 that I have found in the last 2 weeks of research is Panasonic's HIT series. It's a couple year old panel, and the degradation over 25 is 91% verse LG's 96%, but it's capability in hot temps is better than anything else on the market that I have found.
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Another vote for Superwind. I have had one half way up the mizzen mast since 2018. it is totally quiet, transmits no vibrations to the mast thanks to the plastic decoupler and withstood the 2018 Medicane with over 45 kn without a problem. I understand it is installed on a large number of small airports to power landing lights. Expensive, but worth every penny.
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Do not now about wind, but this year we replaced our 5 year old solar panels and replaced the with Sunpower maxium 3. 2x400 w is just a fraction larger surface that the old 3x150 w, A hug improvements. I often see peak watt close to 500w and occasionally around 540 w, During July we touched 3 Kwh for a full day each, yesterday as an example we reached 2,3 but the battery was full well before the end of the day and superhot (high temp reduce output) We have litium and 1,4Kw of solar so do not need to run the panels constantly during a day, even though we cock food on induction, and make hot water through the inverter. But it is still summer and long day, sure I will need them all when days get shorter
Paul on SY Kerpa SM#259, Gran Canaria.
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Wind - I always recommend solar. I tried for years to get real-life data on any wind generator and found no actual useable data to construct a cost/benefit model. Sure I got the reports like, "one day a month ago we got XXX amps from the wind." Or, "it is always turning." Bill
On Fri, Aug 20, 2021 at 8:42 AM Paul Osterberg <osterberg.paul.l@...> wrote: Do not now about wind, but this year we replaced our 5 year old solar panels and replaced the with Sunpower maxium 3. 2x400 w is just a fraction larger surface that the old 3x150 w, A hug improvements. I often see peak watt close to 500w and occasionally around 540 w, During July we touched 3 Kwh for a full day each, yesterday as an example we reached 2,3 but the battery was full well before the end of the day and superhot (high temp reduce output) We have litium and 1,4Kw of solar so do not need to run the panels constantly during a day, even though we cock food on induction, and make hot water through the inverter. But it is still summer and long day, sure I will need them all when days get shorter
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Ron Hynes <riffhynes@...>
I installed a silent wind generator about four years ago and have never been happy with it. The output is minimal and it is anything but silent! At the same time I put on Solara panels and have been extremely pleased with their performance and durability. I only have 300 watts so the maximum output it’s close to 12 A where three or four hours at maximum sun.
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Ron Hynes 954.319.0944
On Aug 20, 2021, at 9:55 AM, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:
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The previous owner installed a D400. The machine itself is great and smooth.
But... 1) the whole boat vibrates above 20 knots. I since found that 2 out of 4 nuts were missing with no washers (mediocre yard in Port Napoleon). 2) At 30-35 knots the vibrations are close to unbearable. I think it was mounted on a pole that is too high with no support mid way, so the pole enters into resonance 3) I think it was mounted high to avoid problems with the topping lift. Despite that you have to keep the topping lift super tight otherwise you'll break a blade or two. The output is mediocre and if it blowing too hard the extra energy is funneled into resistances. Bottom line, it creates additional complexity in the back of the boat and I am thinking about removing it. The output is not that great compared to solar. My recommendation: don't buy one, put solar panels in different locations (like on the stern arch and on the cockpit), each with a different controller. -- John Bernard "JB" Duler San Francisco Meltem # 19, Western Med
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So it looks like the Superwind from Germany is the best bet, but my mount will need some adjusting.
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Just checked out Sunpower 400W solar panels. I have to admit that from a cost benefit analysis there is a lot to be said with doing away with wind generators and investing in better solar. My existing arch will easily accommodate only very slightly larger panels that should produce 50% more power. I will have to adjust a couple of mounting lugs. In sunny climes this will be more than enough to run everything. So my thinking is to upgrade the solar and see how we go. If I then still covet wind power I will get it. Nick Amelia AML 54-019 Patmos Gr
On 20 Aug 2021, at 19:07, JB Duler <jbduler@...> wrote:
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Matt & Michelle
Lovely turn of phase Nick. Don't we all covet the wind. Great conversation.
Matt
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Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
I too have the super wind 350. It has progressive geared self feathering that fully engages in winds over 40 knots. I got 10 years constant use before the bearings wore out and I replaced it. Nil maintenance needed in those 10 years. Also totally quiet and vibration free mounted on top of the mizzen. I have solar as well. Hot and sunny, no wind, solar, cold cloudy and windy, wind. Windy and sunny. Wow Good ballance IMHO.
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Danny SM 299 Ocean Pearl
On 20 August 2021 at 23:15 Alain Durante <info@...> wrote:
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We have a D400, and while it's not particular;y noisy, doesn't vibrate, it certainly doesn't put out much power.
It came with the boat so for the meantime it stays. The only time I have ever seen any usable amount of power out of it was sailing upwind from NZ to Tahiti in 35+ knots true. I don't really want to be sailing like that if I can avoid it. AND I don't want to be moored in windy anchorages! Also, where it is mounted, on a pole on the port aft corner, causes us problems with travel lifts in marinas. Our 600W of solar panels though are a completely different story. They consistently provide more power than we can use. They are completely silent and require little or no maintenance I wouldn't waste my money on a wind generator, and I will in time,take it down and sell it to a true believer. Cheers Alan Elyse SM437
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Germain Jean-Pierre
I will confirm Alan’s sentiments.
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Wind generators are, by and large, a myth. My good mate has one on his boat and from transiting the Pacific in company, I confirm that their performance is poor. My mate installed a permanent hull mounted Watt & Sea (newer model) and he’s delighted with the results thus far. Good luck in your choice. Kind regards Jean-Pierre Germain, Eleuthera, SM007, NZ
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Alan, you are totally right.
I forgot about the travel lift issue. Our D400 is on the aft starboard on a pole. Last time the operator was incredibly skilled and the cables were within two inches of the wind vane. It would have been impossible for a regular operator to not hit the vane. Cheers -- John Bernard "JB" Duler San Francisco Meltem # 19, Western Med
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Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
Hi Ron and all. Wind generators are not created equal. There are low price models that are what you pay for. Noisy, fragile and unable to cope with high winds. There is one the Duo 400 which is not cheap but very heavy and has a crude and awkward metbod of feathering in strong wins. I have seen people say it's the best. But then the same people say wind generators are rubbish. Many types require tethering in strong winds. Others throw off blades. Some are very noisy and are hated in marinas and anchorages. Others are noisy and vibrate shockingly sending vibrations throughout the boat. One model has many and very long blades, and has the best low wind output but throws off blades in high winds. Get the picture. If you are going wind select carefully. I got lucky and chose the Super Wind 350. Totally silent, nil vibration. Designed for remote locations to run for years with nil maintenance. Geared feathering blades that feather progressively as the wind increases. Total feathering over 40.knots. However, under 10 knots of apparent wind output is neglible. This applies to almost all wind generators. 15 knots apparent. Quite good. Over 20 knots apparent. "Cooking with gas"as the saying goes. In all things serious off shore you need redundancy. Wind solar and diesel covers the spectrum. But if you want to wind. Only one place to go. Super wind. Cost me twice what others were but good choice. Da NY SM 299 Ocean Pearl
On 21 August 2021 at 02:18 Ron Hynes <riffhynes@...> wrote:
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JOHN HAYES
Hi Ron
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I brought a y tool of the line silent wind unit 3 years ago. Though new on a trip through the pacific I eventually realised it’s output was negligible I returned its brain box it to the agent who replaced it at no charge (against instructions we had pulled it apart and could see a transistor had failed ). Since replacing the brain the unit has worked perfectly, plenty of generation and almost no noise…….maybe helped by Nga Waka’s berth in windy Wellington Best John Hayes Nga Waka SN 61 Wellington NZ
On 29/08/2021, at 10:25 AM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:
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Ron Hynes <riffhynes@...>
John Hayes
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Good point regarding their controller being the problem…will check it out once again. Silent Wind was all the rage a few years ago when I bought mine. I certainly wasn’t being economical as it was over $2500 as I recall. A feature i particularly liked was that it was 3-phase with the rectifier near the batteries so comparatively light wiring was required. As I recall the unit was designed and manufactured in Portugal and the support was minimal. Another unique feature was the blades..they were very quiet and efficient. In fact, at the time the D400 offered their blades as a $100 option. I did the wind generator and solar panels at the same time and perhaps the solar improvement was so dramatic that it was easy to forget about the wind generator. I think I’m going to revisit that area and see if I can improve the performance. Ron Hynes 954.319.0944
On Aug 28, 2021, at 7:16 PM, JOHN HAYES <johnhayes862@...> wrote:
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Hi Danny,
So can you tell us how many actual amps you see at those different wind speeds? Cheers Alan Elyse SM437
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