Climma Heat


Mike Ondra
 

I have seen a number of posts on Climma unit heat cutting off 10 to 15 seconds after being turned on, but no solutions. Sounds like overheat protection control failure. This even when filter is removed to attain maximum air flow, and still cuts out at all fan speeds. (Might be instructive to know if it cuts out more quickly at low speed than high speed as that would indicate that there is at least some feedback in the high temp cutoff control.)

Has anyone determined a cause? Thermistor failure? Relay issue? Wiring short or break?

Solution? Part replacement?

 

Mike Ondra

Former mechanic Aletes SM#240


 

Every time I experienced this on our SM or others the cause was poor air flow triggering the safety cutoff switch, and the most common causes are in this order:
1.) Fan capacitors out of spec. 
2.) The fan set to a speed other than High
3.) Clogged air filter or other airflow restrictions

I have known a few owners to replace the safety switch, but I was never 100% certain that it was needed, although I am sure the safety switch will fail. 


Best,

CW Bill Rouse 
Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html


   


On Sat, Nov 6, 2021, 07:03 Mike Ondra via groups.io <mdondra=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

I have seen a number of posts on Climma unit heat cutting off 10 to 15 seconds after being turned on, but no solutions. Sounds like overheat protection control failure. This even when filter is removed to attain maximum air flow, and still cuts out at all fan speeds. (Might be instructive to know if it cuts out more quickly at low speed than high speed as that would indicate that there is at least some feedback in the high temp cutoff control.)

Has anyone determined a cause? Thermistor failure? Relay issue? Wiring short or break?

Solution? Part replacement?

 

Mike Ondra

Former mechanic Aletes SM#240


Stefan Jeukendrup
 

Hi Mike,

Had this problem on all 3 of my climma.
There where 2 separate causes:
Thermal overload because the fan was at lowest speed/not running causing a blown thermal fuse. Of cause them it does not work again until the thermal fuse has been replaced. This has been described on the forum before.
Reason 2 :
dust and rust in the TI  Klixon thermostat causing them to stick open circuit only to close again when the temperature is really low. Cleaning the Klixon contacts/mechanism worked.


Hope this helps,

Stefan Jeukendrup
svMalaka Queen
SM2k #348 @ Newry Northern Ireland



Op 6 nov. 2021 11:03 schreef "Mike Ondra via groups.io" <mdondra@...>:

I have seen a number of posts on Climma unit heat cutting off 10 to 15 seconds after being turned on, but no solutions. Sounds like overheat protection control failure. This even when filter is removed to attain maximum air flow, and still cuts out at all fan speeds. (Might be instructive to know if it cuts out more quickly at low speed than high speed as that would indicate that there is at least some feedback in the high temp cutoff control.)

Has anyone determined a cause? Thermistor failure? Relay issue? Wiring short or break?

Solution? Part replacement?

 

Mike Ondra

Former mechanic Aletes SM#240



Alexey Mateosyan
 

Hi Stefan,

Thank you for your answer to Mike's post (thank you Mike). For my case, it looks like that the problem is with overheating protection. And since:
1. max airflow is really huge, and climma in aft works even with medium flow
2. I see 220v on electrical heating element constantly
3. On the other hand I can't hear any relay clicking, at the moment when heating is gone
4. Current in the heating circuit is dropped from 5a to 0, at that moment
I think that the root cause is inside the heater itself, i.e. it could be one of those two things on the picture (since they are sitting in series with the heating element and basically can break the circuit), the below one looks like thermistor, and the one above:
Is this the klixon thermostat marked on the picture?

How did you clean it, if it is the thing?

--
Best regards,
Aleksei @ Aletes SM2K#240


Stefan Jeukendrup
 

Hi Alexei,

The grey/black Klimma unit temperature control knop is used to switch on and off the 220v to the heating element. It's thermostat measures the air temperature at the air inlet of the Klimma. It should click when you rotate the knob. There is a screw on the back of the grey/ black unit for adjustment.
That is the main temperature control.

But there is also temperature control in the heating element:

The item on the lower left of your picture is the over-temperature protection which goes open circuit when the thermostat fails short circuit and it happened to me when there was no airflow.
The item marked by you in red in the photo is the Texas Instruments Klixon thermostat. This device uses a bimetal strip and spring to open its contacts when it reaches a certain temperature.
It can get stuck open or closed. Note these things are not made to be serviced but cleaning the spring and contacts worked for me. You can pull the switch out from the side, there is a screw. 

Of cause when replacing parts use the same temperatures to avoid fire. It's all very fiddly and to replace the total is a better and safer solution.

Hope this helps,

Stefan Jeukendrup
svMalaka Queen
SM2k #348 @ Newry Northern Ireland

Op 8 nov. 2021 04:56 schreef Alexey Mateosyan <alexey.mateosyan@...>:

Hi Stefan,

Thank you for your answer to Mike's post (thank you Mike). For my case, it looks like that the problem is with overheating protection. And since:
1. max airflow is really huge, and climma in aft works even with medium flow
2. I see 220v on electrical heating element constantly
3. On the other hand I can't hear any relay clicking, at the moment when heating is gone
4. Current in the heating circuit is dropped from 5a to 0, at that moment
I think that the root cause is inside the heater itself, i.e. it could be one of those two things on the picture (since they are sitting in series with the heating element and basically can break the circuit), the below one looks like thermistor, and the one above:
Is this the klixon thermostat marked on the picture?

How did you clean it, if it is the thing?

--
Best regards,
Aleksei @ Aletes SM2K#240


Stefan Jeukendrup
 

Hi Alexei,

To answer your specific questions: 
With 220V on the element you should see it cycling: When switching on the element should light up  like a bread toaster element. Then depending on airflow and air temperature it reaches the  temperature where the Klixon switches opens the circuit. Then the element and Klixon is cooled  by the airflow and after a while the Klixon closes it's contact again, without click.

5A at 220V = 1100Watts seems OK for a Climma 9HE which is specified to provide  9000btu/hour for cooling and heating.

Enclosed are pictures of:
*Thermostat Texas Instruments Klixon
*Overtemperature protection fuse

Both are in series with the heating element but not necessarily in the exact locations I indicated before. As said before these devices are made in many different temperature ranges so be sure you replace with the exact same ones.


Stefan Jeukendrup
svMalaka Queen
SM2k #348 @Newry, Northern Ireland




Op 8 nov. 2021 04:56 schreef Alexey Mateosyan <alexey.mateosyan@...>:

Hi Stefan,

Thank you for your answer to Mike's post (thank you Mike). For my case, it looks like that the problem is with overheating protection. And since:
1. max airflow is really huge, and climma in aft works even with medium flow
2. I see 220v on electrical heating element constantly
3. On the other hand I can't hear any relay clicking, at the moment when heating is gone
4. Current in the heating circuit is dropped from 5a to 0, at that moment
I think that the root cause is inside the heater itself, i.e. it could be one of those two things on the picture (since they are sitting in series with the heating element and basically can break the circuit), the below one looks like thermistor, and the one above:
Is this the klixon thermostat marked on the picture?

How did you clean it, if it is the thing?

--
Best regards,
Aleksei @ Aletes SM2K#240


 

Stefan,

Regarding the Climma 9 Compact unit, I have the value of the Klixon at RS 121, but I am not sure what RS 121 stands for. I do not have the value of the fuse. Do you have the values, and/or can you confirm the RS 121 value?

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar

On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 5:35 AM Stefan Jeukendrup <sjeukendrup@...> wrote:
Hi Alexei,

To answer your specific questions: 
With 220V on the element you should see it cycling: When switching on the element should light up  like a bread toaster element. Then depending on airflow and air temperature it reaches the  temperature where the Klixon switches opens the circuit. Then the element and Klixon is cooled  by the airflow and after a while the Klixon closes it's contact again, without click.

5A at 220V = 1100Watts seems OK for a Climma 9HE which is specified to provide  9000btu/hour for cooling and heating.

Enclosed are pictures of:
*Thermostat Texas Instruments Klixon
*Overtemperature protection fuse

Both are in series with the heating element but not necessarily in the exact locations I indicated before. As said before these devices are made in many different temperature ranges so be sure you replace with the exact same ones.


Stefan Jeukendrup
svMalaka Queen
SM2k #348 @Newry, Northern Ireland




Op 8 nov. 2021 04:56 schreef Alexey Mateosyan <alexey.mateosyan@...>:
Hi Stefan,

Thank you for your answer to Mike's post (thank you Mike). For my case, it looks like that the problem is with overheating protection. And since:
1. max airflow is really huge, and climma in aft works even with medium flow
2. I see 220v on electrical heating element constantly
3. On the other hand I can't hear any relay clicking, at the moment when heating is gone
4. Current in the heating circuit is dropped from 5a to 0, at that moment
I think that the root cause is inside the heater itself, i.e. it could be one of those two things on the picture (since they are sitting in series with the heating element and basically can break the circuit), the below one looks like thermistor, and the one above:
Is this the klixon thermostat marked on the picture?

How did you clean it, if it is the thing?

--
Best regards,
Aleksei @ Aletes SM2K#240


Alexey Mateosyan
 

thank you, Stefan, that's very helpful, I will try to find out what is the type of the klixon thermostat. 
--
Best regards,
Aleksei @ Aletes SM2K#240


Stefan Jeukendrup
 

Hello Bill,


For Climma  Compact 9/EH  M80018 S/N 4540 Sett. 141 Nominal Capacity 8000Btu/h on SM2k #348:

Power consumption when  cooling 925 Watts, when heating 1300 Watts @230Vac

Heating element size 24 * 20 *3 cm
Heating element measured resistance is 40 ohms

The thermal protection fuse  is a Microterm G4A
The hold temperature Tf is 121C or 128 C
It can interrupt a current of 10A at 250VAC

The thermoswitch is a Texas Instruments Klixon TH11CA091
The switching temperature is 90 Degrees Celcius


Texas Instruments Klixon is now part of  Sensata.

All connections are crimped or rivetted as soldering with tin/lead will not work in a heating element


Stefan Jeukendrup

svMalaka Queen

SM2k #348 @Newry Northern Ireland




Op 08-11-2021 om 14:30 schreef CW Bill Rouse:

Stefan,

Regarding the Climma 9 Compact unit, I have the value of the Klixon at RS 121, but I am not sure what RS 121 stands for. I do not have the value of the fuse. Do you have the values, and/or can you confirm the RS 121 value?

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

View My Training Calendar

On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 5:35 AM Stefan Jeukendrup <sjeukendrup@...> wrote:
Hi Alexei,

To answer your specific questions: 
With 220V on the element you should see it cycling: When switching on the element should light up  like a bread toaster element. Then depending on airflow and air temperature it reaches the  temperature where the Klixon switches opens the circuit. Then the element and Klixon is cooled  by the airflow and after a while the Klixon closes it's contact again, without click.

5A at 220V = 1100Watts seems OK for a Climma 9HE which is specified to provide  9000btu/hour for cooling and heating.

Enclosed are pictures of:
*Thermostat Texas Instruments Klixon
*Overtemperature protection fuse

Both are in series with the heating element but not necessarily in the exact locations I indicated before. As said before these devices are made in many different temperature ranges so be sure you replace with the exact same ones.


Stefan Jeukendrup
svMalaka Queen
SM2k #348 @Newry, Northern Ireland




Op 8 nov. 2021 04:56 schreef Alexey Mateosyan <alexey.mateosyan@...>:
Hi Stefan,

Thank you for your answer to Mike's post (thank you Mike). For my case, it looks like that the problem is with overheating protection. And since:
1. max airflow is really huge, and climma in aft works even with medium flow
2. I see 220v on electrical heating element constantly
3. On the other hand I can't hear any relay clicking, at the moment when heating is gone
4. Current in the heating circuit is dropped from 5a to 0, at that moment
I think that the root cause is inside the heater itself, i.e. it could be one of those two things on the picture (since they are sitting in series with the heating element and basically can break the circuit), the below one looks like thermistor, and the one above:
Is this the klixon thermostat marked on the picture?

How did you clean it, if it is the thing?

--
Best regards,
Aleksei @ Aletes SM2K#240


 

Stefan,

Thanks for the detail


CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar

On Wed, Nov 10, 2021 at 6:36 AM Stefan Jeukendrup <sjeukendrup@...> wrote:

Hello Bill,


For Climma  Compact 9/EH  M80018 S/N 4540 Sett. 141 Nominal Capacity 8000Btu/h on SM2k #348:

Power consumption when  cooling 925 Watts, when heating 1300 Watts @230Vac

Heating element size 24 * 20 *3 cm
Heating element measured resistance is 40 ohms

The thermal protection fuse  is a Microterm G4A
The hold temperature Tf is 121C or 128 C
It can interrupt a current of 10A at 250VAC

The thermoswitch is a Texas Instruments Klixon TH11CA091
The switching temperature is 90 Degrees Celcius


Texas Instruments Klixon is now part of  Sensata.

All connections are crimped or rivetted as soldering with tin/lead will not work in a heating element


Stefan Jeukendrup

svMalaka Queen

SM2k #348 @Newry Northern Ireland




Op 08-11-2021 om 14:30 schreef CW Bill Rouse:
Stefan,

Regarding the Climma 9 Compact unit, I have the value of the Klixon at RS 121, but I am not sure what RS 121 stands for. I do not have the value of the fuse. Do you have the values, and/or can you confirm the RS 121 value?

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

View My Training Calendar

On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 5:35 AM Stefan Jeukendrup <sjeukendrup@...> wrote:
Hi Alexei,

To answer your specific questions: 
With 220V on the element you should see it cycling: When switching on the element should light up  like a bread toaster element. Then depending on airflow and air temperature it reaches the  temperature where the Klixon switches opens the circuit. Then the element and Klixon is cooled  by the airflow and after a while the Klixon closes it's contact again, without click.

5A at 220V = 1100Watts seems OK for a Climma 9HE which is specified to provide  9000btu/hour for cooling and heating.

Enclosed are pictures of:
*Thermostat Texas Instruments Klixon
*Overtemperature protection fuse

Both are in series with the heating element but not necessarily in the exact locations I indicated before. As said before these devices are made in many different temperature ranges so be sure you replace with the exact same ones.


Stefan Jeukendrup
svMalaka Queen
SM2k #348 @Newry, Northern Ireland




Op 8 nov. 2021 04:56 schreef Alexey Mateosyan <alexey.mateosyan@...>:
Hi Stefan,

Thank you for your answer to Mike's post (thank you Mike). For my case, it looks like that the problem is with overheating protection. And since:
1. max airflow is really huge, and climma in aft works even with medium flow
2. I see 220v on electrical heating element constantly
3. On the other hand I can't hear any relay clicking, at the moment when heating is gone
4. Current in the heating circuit is dropped from 5a to 0, at that moment
I think that the root cause is inside the heater itself, i.e. it could be one of those two things on the picture (since they are sitting in series with the heating element and basically can break the circuit), the below one looks like thermistor, and the one above:
Is this the klixon thermostat marked on the picture?

How did you clean it, if it is the thing?

--
Best regards,
Aleksei @ Aletes SM2K#240