Endless rope loops
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Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown
Hi All,
Many of the “endless rope loops” – I don’t know what the technical term is – that secure e.g. the mizzen sheet block to the boom, amongst a number of other things, look to be in need of replacement. I was wondering if anyone can recommend a suitable alternative to these as I know that to make them in situ as would be required requires some expertise which I do not have and cannot see gaining anytime soon.
Cheers, Paul
Paul Dowd & Sharon Brown S/Y Ya Fohi, Amel 54 #98 skype: pauldowd
-- Cheers Paul Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 |
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David Vogel
Greets,
Are you referring to “soft shackles”?
If so, you can buy these at a chandlery, or go to a rigger / sail-maker, and get them made up to spec. We are in the process of replacing all met-to-metal shackle with soft shackles.
Best,
David SM#396, Perigee
From: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...>
Hi All,
Many of the “endless rope loops” – I don’t know what the technical term is – that secure e.g. the mizzen sheet block to the boom, amongst a number of other things, look to be in need of replacement. I was wondering if anyone can recommend a suitable alternative to these as I know that to make them in situ as would be required requires some expertise which I do not have and cannot see gaining anytime soon.
Cheers, Paul
Paul Dowd & Sharon Brown S/Y Ya Fohi, Amel 54 #98 skype: pauldowd
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Germain Jean-Pierre
Hi David,
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I did this 7 years ago. Still looking good and avoid the “hurtful” noise of metal to metal during a gibe or tack. Cheers,
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Hi David, What mm are you finding that will cover most replacements or are you matching mm to load very specifically. All the best, Chuck Joy 388 On Sat, Feb 26, 2022 at 6:37 PM David Vogel <david.vogel@...> wrote:
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Doug Smith
You can make them fairly easily. The diameter on mine were 4.5 inches and I used 1/8”, 3/16” and 1/4” dyeneema to make them. On Aventura the 1/8 dyneema matches very closely to the original ones.
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On Feb 26, 2022, at 6:05 PM, Chuck_Kim_Joy <clacey9@...> wrote:
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Hi Paul,
Its easy enough to make soft shackles with a length of dyneema and a fid.... https://www.animatedknots.com/soft-shackle Cheers Alan Elyse SM437 |
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Scott SV Tengah
I remade most of them on my 54. You just need replacement dyneema chafe protection sleeves and a fid set like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Samson-Selma-Splicing-Fids-Five/dp/B006L9GB48 Carefully open one up by removing the whipping threads. If you feel like it, replace the 4mm (perhaps it's 5mm) line inside. Mine looked fine, so I did not replace the internal line. Once you open it up, you will see how easy it is to make the loop. Restitch it as Amel's method of making the loop can possibly unravel if the loop is not kept under tension and vibrates a lot. You will want to make an endless loop as per original and not use a soft shackle for this application, imo. First, you want the additional sun/chafe protection from the sleeve and also making a strong enough soft shackle that has that small of an inside diameter will be difficult. You could buy replacements from Amel but I suggest getting the fids and learning how to splice and also make soft shackles. In addition, you can slowly start replacing the hard shackles aboard with soft shackles. I bought some commercial soft shackles in the past and threw a few out because I realize how poorly the diamond knot was tied. Don't assume that buying it pre-made will mean that it's better. -- Scott 2007 A54 #69 SV Tengah http://www.svtengah.com |
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Sv Garulfo
One thing to note is that despite what their setup looks like, those loops don’t have to (and most certainly can’t) be made in-situ. The blocks need to be taken appart, which is not difficult and a good occasion to thoroughly inspect and clean them. Changing the protection sleeve is do-able but don’t expect professional looking results on the first few tries... The internal line on mine were stitched properly. The alternative is soft shackles, easier to splice, don’t need to take the blocks appart, but maybe not as elegant... Thomas GARULFO A54-122 Rapa, French Polynesia On 27 Feb 2022, at 12:03, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
I remade most of them on my 54. You just need replacement dyneema chafe protection sleeves and a fid set like this: https://www.amazon.com/Samson-Selma-Splicing-Fids-Five/dp/B006L9GB48 Carefully open one up by removing the whipping threads. If you feel like it, replace the 4mm (perhaps it's 5mm) line inside. Mine looked fine, so I did not replace the internal line. Once you open it up, you will see how easy it is to make the loop. Restitch it as Amel's method of making the loop can possibly unravel if the loop is not kept under tension and vibrates a lot. You will want to make an endless loop as per original and not use a soft shackle for this application, imo. First, you want the additional sun/chafe protection from the sleeve and also making a strong enough soft shackle that has that small of an inside diameter will be difficult. You could buy replacements from Amel but I suggest getting the fids and learning how to splice and also make soft shackles. In addition, you can slowly start replacing the hard shackles aboard with soft shackles. I bought some commercial soft shackles in the past and threw a few out because I realize how poorly the diamond knot was tied. Don't assume that buying it pre-made will mean that it's better. -- Scott 2007 A54 #69 SV Tengah http://www.svtengah.com |
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Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown
Thanks everyone for all the great feedback. As regards strength and overall security, is there any difference between a loop and a soft shackle?
Cheers, Paul
Paul Dowd & Sharon Brown S/Y Ya Fohi, Amel 54 #98 skype: pauldowd
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sv Garulfo
Sent: 27 February 2022 19:59 To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Endless rope loops
One thing to note is that despite what their setup looks like, those loops don’t have to (and most certainly can’t) be made in-situ. The blocks need to be taken appart, which is not difficult and a good occasion to thoroughly inspect and clean them.
Changing the protection sleeve is do-able but don’t expect professional looking results on the first few tries... The internal line on mine were stitched properly.
The alternative is soft shackles, easier to splice, don’t need to take the blocks appart, but maybe not as elegant...
Thomas GARULFO A54-122 Rapa, French Polynesia
I remade most of them on my 54. You just need replacement dyneema chafe protection sleeves and a fid set like this: -- Cheers Paul Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 |
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Bill Kinney
A properly made soft shackle will be stronger than a single loop. For reasons that I don't understand, a rigger would call a simple spliced loop of line a "gasket."
For making soft shackles this method is a bit more complex than what you usually see documented on the method to make these, but is proven stronger: Brion Toss Soft Shackle A soft shackle carries the load across FOUR legs of line, while the loop only has two. If the loop has a 100% perfect splice, the maximum strength it can have is 2X the strength of the single line. A well made soft shackle is theoretically 4X the line strength, but realistically tests out to 3X. Given the pretty amazing breaking strengths of well made Dyneema line, this is really impressive. A 1/4" (~6mm) Dyneema line has a breaking strength of 8600lbs (3900kg), which means a well made soft shackle made from that would have a breaking strength of almost 26,000lbs (11,700kg), much stronger than any stainless shackle you might consider using. Two of those could lift your boat out of the water. More than suitable for pretty much ANY application on your boat. Bill Kinney SM160, Harmonie Hollywood, FL |
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Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown
Thanks Bill, that’s really useful info.
Cheers, Paul
Paul Dowd & Sharon Brown S/Y Ya Fohi, Amel 54 #98 skype: pauldowd
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Kinney
Sent: 05 March 2022 00:27 To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Endless rope loops
A properly made soft shackle will be stronger than a single loop. For reasons that I don't understand, a rigger would call a simple spliced loop of line a "gasket." -- Cheers Paul Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 |
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Scott SV Tengah
Perhaps it's different on a Super Maramu, but the loops on a 54 are definitely not simple spliced loops. When I opened mine to figure out how it was made, there were, if I recall correctly, at least 4 loops in there. So similar to legs of lashing, the more legs, the more strength. So the loops on my 54 are definitely stronger than 2x line strength. To answer Paul's previous question, I decided to replicate the multiple loops of white/gray dyneema with the black dyneema chafe sleeve over it. My reasoning is that all of the loops I have replaced were due to the dyneema sleeve chafing through rather than the multiple loops inside breaking. That implies to me that the application is subject to some movement/chafing and a black cover on white internals makes it very easy to see when the loop needs to be replaced. If it was unprotected, I would have to more closely inspect for evidence of chafing. Bill - how do you figure 400% theoretical and 300% tested on the soft shackle that you linked? In the written description that the video's author wrote, he tested it at 230% line strength, which is better than the typical 170% breaking strength of a regular diamond knot soft shackle, but not 400% theoretical/300% tested? The limiting factor is not the legs, but the eye, which you cannot eliminate. On Fri, Mar 4, 2022 at 6:26 PM Bill Kinney <cruisingconsulting@...> wrote: A properly made soft shackle will be stronger than a single loop. For reasons that I don't understand, a rigger would call a simple spliced loop of line a "gasket." |
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