John,

I am sorry that you had such a bad experience.
To provide information from both sides, I had a different experience with Q-sails and received my Genoa within the time originally quoted.  They failed to answer my first e-mail, asking for the state of affairs, but soon after they came back and explained their delay.  Because I had paid  with a credit card they had requested 100% payment with the order, which made me very worried.  However,  they delivered a good product and I am extremely happy with the quality of the sail.

Where I had a problem was in Panama where customs was charging me import taxes, in spite that the boat was in transit.  Juanjo from Shelter marina help me resolve the issue but I ended up having to pay extra money to get the sail out of Customs.

Hope you get Q-sails to respond.


Jose Venegas
Ipanema  SM2K 278
Currently In San Andres Colombia.

Re Bill's suggestion " I suggest changing your order to Nautosphere Voyager"

Please note that, should you elect to go for Nautosphere Voyager, this will mean that you will (or should) end up with cross-cut sails.

This is because Nautosphere Voyager is manufactured with the dyneema running ACROSS the bolt of the fabric, not _along_ the bolt as is the case with Dimension-Polyant HYDRANET Radial.

For the dyneema in Nautosphere Voyager to take the primary loads in the sail (which run roughly vertically), the weft needs to be vertical, meaning that the warp of the fabric needs be aligned horizontally, leading to cross-cut construction.

When compared to an equivalent tri-radial sail, a cross-cut sail has less bulk in the furled sail, because the seams spiral onto the foil/mandrel, meaning fewer overlapping seams.  Also, with fewer seams, there is less work to make the sail, meaning less cost.  The overall pricing should reflect this - our research over the past 6 months indicates that Cross-Cut Nautosphere Voyager should be in the order of 60% the cost of an equivalent Tri-radial HydraNet sail.   This is due also to the fact that Nautosphere Voyager fabric is cheaper than Dimension-Polyant HYDRANET Radial sailcloth.

Thus far, we have been unable to get an unbiased assessment of the Nautosphere Voyager in the kind of use we intend (or for in-mast furling, as opposed to conventional slab-reefing), but we have gotten heaps of marketing wha-wha, and even sail-makers who are very keen to find a customer to try the Nautosphere Voyager out on, so .... we remain unconvinced either way.

In our minds it remains to be seen whether cross-cut sails made from Nautosphere Voyager are as durable and retain their shape as well as tri-radial sails made from 'conventional' polyester +dyneema fabrics (such as Dimension-Polyant HYDRANET Radial or Contender Fibercon-HYBRID Radial).  At 60% the cost, if we get 60% the life, then perhaps this should not matter so much.

Of course, if the preferred sail-cloth is not available at any cost, then there is not much to discuss.

Best,

David
SM#396, Perigee



From: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Bill Rouse <brouse@...>
Reply to: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Date: Sunday, 6 March 2022 at 7:05 am
To: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification" <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Qsails

This is what the owner of QSails says:

The situation is worse than before. Dimension Polyant (DP) can not give any delivery time for HydraNet Radial fabric. I can share the emails if you want. They also increased the prices again.

We ordered plenty of a Hybrid (in December) from Contender but the delivery will be end-April.

None of the sailmakers in global have HydraNet Radial, for now, I checked this personally.

I was just planning to propose a HydraNet Crosscut (with slightly less price than Hydra Net Radial). OR Nautosphere Voyager (with the same price tag as HydraNet Radial).

We and other sailmakers only manufacture with what they can find as a cloth on the market. This is the situation, business is tough nowadays.  

QSails had a pristine reputation with Amel owners prior to COVID. Their quality has always been good and their delivery good until COVID. Most of the problems were caused by suppliers and shippers. I personally know of the DP problems and I know of 2 cases where the shipper lost the shipment to an Amel owner. The most frustrating problem is the only experience QSails had with satisfying customers is delivering faster than the competition and at prices well below any price anywhere for the same product. From my vantage point, this all fell apart when suppliers, especially DP, stopped supplying sailmakers because their raw material supply chain was broken. QSails has been frustrating for owners to communicate with, and QSails has been overwhelmed with calls because of non-delivery from DP.

I suggest changing your order to Nautosphere Voyager is woven with Dyneema as long as QSails has stock and can give you a definite date for production. This sailcloth appears to be even better than DP HydraNet. The difference between the two sailcloths is probably that  Nautosphere Voyager does not have the brand recognition as DP HydraNet. Check it out for yourself and read the test results as compared to DP HydraNet: 
https://www.nautosphere.com/sailcloth

Bill

David,

Thanks for that. Good analysis. 

Bill

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School  +1 832-380-4970 | brouse@... 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550  www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com

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On Sun, Mar 6, 2022 at 6:30 PM David Vogel <david.vogel@...> wrote:

Re Bill's suggestion " I suggest changing your order to Nautosphere Voyager"

Please note that, should you elect to go for Nautosphere Voyager, this will mean that you will (or should) end up with cross-cut sails.

This is because Nautosphere Voyager is manufactured with the dyneema running ACROSS the bolt of the fabric, not _along_ the bolt as is the case with Dimension-Polyant HYDRANET Radial.

For the dyneema in Nautosphere Voyager to take the primary loads in the sail (which run roughly vertically), the weft needs to be vertical, meaning that the warp of the fabric needs be aligned horizontally, leading to cross-cut construction.

When compared to an equivalent tri-radial sail, a cross-cut sail has less bulk in the furled sail, because the seams spiral onto the foil/mandrel, meaning fewer overlapping seams.  Also, with fewer seams, there is less work to make the sail, meaning less cost.  The overall pricing should reflect this - our research over the past 6 months indicates that Cross-Cut Nautosphere Voyager should be in the order of 60% the cost of an equivalent Tri-radial HydraNet sail.   This is due also to the fact that Nautosphere Voyager fabric is cheaper than Dimension-Polyant HYDRANET Radial sailcloth.

Thus far, we have been unable to get an unbiased assessment of the Nautosphere Voyager in the kind of use we intend (or for in-mast furling, as opposed to conventional slab-reefing), but we have gotten heaps of marketing wha-wha, and even sail-makers who are very keen to find a customer to try the Nautosphere Voyager out on, so .... we remain unconvinced either way.

In our minds it remains to be seen whether cross-cut sails made from Nautosphere Voyager are as durable and retain their shape as well as tri-radial sails made from 'conventional' polyester +dyneema fabrics (such as Dimension-Polyant HYDRANET Radial or Contender Fibercon-HYBRID Radial).  At 60% the cost, if we get 60% the life, then perhaps this should not matter so much.

Of course, if the preferred sail-cloth is not available at any cost, then there is not much to discuss.

Best,

David
SM#396, Perigee



From: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Bill Rouse <brouse@...>
Reply to: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Date: Sunday, 6 March 2022 at 7:05 am
To: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification" <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Qsails

This is what the owner of QSails says:

The situation is worse than before. Dimension Polyant (DP) can not give any delivery time for HydraNet Radial fabric. I can share the emails if you want. They also increased the prices again.

We ordered plenty of a Hybrid (in December) from Contender but the delivery will be end-April.

None of the sailmakers in global have HydraNet Radial, for now, I checked this personally.

I was just planning to propose a HydraNet Crosscut (with slightly less price than Hydra Net Radial). OR Nautosphere Voyager (with the same price tag as HydraNet Radial).

We and other sailmakers only manufacture with what they can find as a cloth on the market. This is the situation, business is tough nowadays.  

QSails had a pristine reputation with Amel owners prior to COVID. Their quality has always been good and their delivery good until COVID. Most of the problems were caused by suppliers and shippers. I personally know of the DP problems and I know of 2 cases where the shipper lost the shipment to an Amel owner. The most frustrating problem is the only experience QSails had with satisfying customers is delivering faster than the competition and at prices well below any price anywhere for the same product. From my vantage point, this all fell apart when suppliers, especially DP, stopped supplying sailmakers because their raw material supply chain was broken. QSails has been frustrating for owners to communicate with, and QSails has been overwhelmed with calls because of non-delivery from DP.

I suggest changing your order to Nautosphere Voyager is woven with Dyneema as long as QSails has stock and can give you a definite date for production. This sailcloth appears to be even better than DP HydraNet. The difference between the two sailcloths is probably that  Nautosphere Voyager does not have the brand recognition as DP HydraNet. Check it out for yourself and read the test results as compared to DP HydraNet: 
https://www.nautosphere.com/sailcloth

Bill

I got an update today.  I ordered Pro radial at the beginning of December 2021.  They apparently have the material and it will be ready to ship next week.  Fingers crossed!
--
Jason Rutledge
SV Liahona
SM 335