Date
1 - 15 of 15
Removing winch
|
Patrick McAneny
A while ago I asked the group about my Lewmar winch that was unwinding or rotating out a revolution or so when under load,as when on a close reach in moderate to strong conditions. The only suggestions were to clean the winch. I have never been able to get the gears out that are directly above the driveshaft. I want to remove the bronze body of the windlass ,that is attached to the boat with 5 slotted machine screws. I cannot get them to budge ,the screwdriver is as large as can fit . I have a couple of questions, I was trying to hammer up the screw and then I thought I had better ask the group this. SM Shenanigans |
|
|
|
Hi Pat,
I just finished servicing all of our winches. For the electric winches, including the 2 Lewmar 58's, you do need to remove the center stem (bronze body) in order to remove the gears that connect to the motor below. We have Allen screws, not slotted, though the Lewmar parts list shows slotted, so possibly ours may have been replaced at some point. Those 5 screws go into the metal base, but not through. I wouldn't recommend hammering. CorrosionX or Sea Foam Deep Creep might help loosen corrosion. From your previous post, the problem could be the either the pawls, the springs, or both. Ours weren't slipping, but also not moving freely either. They had way too much grease and eventually that might have been a problem. Make sure that the pawls are the large size for the 58. They are close enough in size that one might put small ones in instead - I almost did. Also, our ratchet gear was looking a bit worn, so that also might be something contributing to the problem. If you find lots of corrosion on the base plate, check the shaft seal as well. That may need to be replaced (Lewmar B6235). Here's a photo of our 58 (before servicing)...  Cheers, Sher & Paul Aramis SM#444 Port Townsend, WA |
|
|
|
Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
Hi Pat, do you have an impact driver. This is a device that has a range of screw driver ends some much more substantial than your normal screw driver. It has quite a large body with a internal worm. It works by being hit with a hammer and the worm works to apply turning impact tom the screw. The next step up from that is what some call a rattle gun. This is what tyre shops use to undo wheel nuts. You can get screw slot fittings for these. They are very effective and less damaging than alternatives. My tool kit was assembled before the day of everything being driven by lithium batteries so mine operates on compressed air. Lowes would have lithium models, well worth having in the tool kit. They have socket , flat screw driver, Philips screwdriver and hex ends. And as with all difficult nuts bolts and screws, soak in CRC before attack.
Kind Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
|
|
|
|
Bill Kinney
Pat,
As Sher describes, the screws are either slotted OR hex head depending on when they were installed. I have always had very poor luck with a hammer driven impact wrench. When I first serviced these winches on our boat, some of the screws were very stuck. Alternately heating with a torch then quickly cooling helped break them free, and then a slow and steady torque applied with a PERFECTLY fitting screwdriver bit with a breaker bar got them out. You can try an electric or air driven impact wrench, but you lose a lot of "feel", and in my experience breaking a stuck bolt is more likely with them, as is just rounding out the hex hole in the screw head. When torquing the screws, work both directions a tiny bit at a time to minimize the chances of breaking the screws, they are pretty big and robust, but it still happens. In the original assembly from Lewmar, the aluminum baseplate was separated from the bronze center stem with a thin sheet of plastic. If this is missing or damaged, the galvanic corrosion that occurs makes this whole process a lot harder, and can cause serious damage. If the plastic piece is missing or not serviceable, you can either cut a new one, or use TefGel, Duralac, or lanolin to electrically isolate the parts. And, of course, ALWAYS use one of those anti-corrosion products on the stainless screws into aluminum parts! For anyone who is interested, the centerstem is available as a spare from Lewmar, but the aluminum baseplate is not. Not a big deal, the baseplate could be easily fabricated locally if it is damaged. Bill Kinney SM160, Harmonie Bridgetown, Barbados |
|
|
|
Patrick McAneny
Sher& Paul, I just came off the boat (frustrated) and up to the house to see if anyone had written. Do I understand you correctly,that the 5 screws in bronze body only just screw into the Aluminum base , and they don't go thru it and thru the fiberglass ? Then the ss. screws are probably seized to the aluminum base. There is no way I can exert enough force to overcome that ,being that the are slotted screws. I was hoping that the base was not tapped , as I was thinking I may have to drill the heads off .
Thanks for the info,
Pat
SM Shenanigans
Sassafras River , Md. -----Original Message-----
From: Sher Scholer via groups.io <write2sher@...> To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Sent: Fri, Sep 9, 2022 2:53 pm Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Removing winch Hi Pat,
I just finished servicing all of our winches. For the electric winches, including the 2 Lewmar 58's, you do need to remove the center stem (bronze body) in order to remove the gears that connect to the motor below. We have Allen screws, not slotted, though the Lewmar parts list shows slotted, so possibly ours may have been replaced at some point. Those 5 screws go into the metal base, but not through. I wouldn't recommend hammering. CorrosionX or Sea Foam Deep Creep might help loosen corrosion. From your previous post, the problem could be the either the pawls, the springs, or both. Ours weren't slipping, but also not moving freely either. They had way too much grease and eventually that might have been a problem. Make sure that the pawls are the large size for the 58. They are close enough in size that one might put small ones in instead - I almost did. Also, our ratchet gear was looking a bit worn, so that also might be something contributing to the problem. If you find lots of corrosion on the base plate, check the shaft seal as well. That may need to be replaced (Lewmar B6235). Here's a photo of our 58 (before servicing)...  Cheers, Sher & Paul Aramis SM#444 Port Townsend, WA |
|
|
|
Patrick McAneny
Danny, Your rattle gun sounds like what we call an impact wrench, I have one and could give it a try , but the slotted screw heads are slightly buggered by a previous owner ,I fear the driver would jump out and bugger it more. I would consider drilling the heads off ,but now I just read that the base is tapped ,making that option less appealing .
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans -----Original Message-----
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io; Patrick McAneny via groups.io <sailw32@...> Sent: Fri, Sep 9, 2022 3:40 pm Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Removing winch
Hi Pat, do you have an impact driver. This is a device that has a range of screw driver ends some much more substantial than your normal screw driver. It has quite a large body with a internal worm. It works by being hit with a hammer and the worm works to apply turning impact tom the screw. The next step up from that is what some call a rattle gun. This is what tyre shops use to undo wheel nuts. You can get screw slot fittings for these. They are very effective and less damaging than alternatives. My tool kit was assembled before the day of everything being driven by lithium batteries so mine operates on compressed air. Lowes would have lithium models, well worth having in the tool kit. They have socket , flat screw driver, Philips screwdriver and hex ends. And as with all difficult nuts bolts and screws, soak in CRC before attack.
Kind Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
|
|
|
|
Patrick McAneny
Bill, Unfortunately I have the slotted heads, There is a plastic sheet separating the base . I am glad you guys all wrote to me ,I was thinking that the five screws down by the motor is what held the winch in place, and they simply passed thru the base. I will try the heating and cooling . But from experience, things that work for guys like you, usually don't work for me, but I will give it a go ! My fall back plan will be to drill the heads off ,rotate the winch slightly and tap the base.
Enjoy Barbados & Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans -----Original Message-----
From: Bill Kinney <cruisingconsulting@...> To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Sent: Fri, Sep 9, 2022 3:41 pm Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Removing winch Pat,
As Sher describes, the screws are either slotted OR hex head depending on when they were installed. I have always had very poor luck with a hammer driven impact wrench. When I first serviced these winches on our boat, some of the screws were very stuck. Alternately heating with a torch then quickly cooling helped break them free, and then a slow and steady torque applied with a PERFECTLY fitting screwdriver bit with a breaker bar got them out. You can try an electric or air driven impact wrench, but you lose a lot of "feel", and in my experience breaking a stuck bolt is more likely with them, as is just rounding out the hex hole in the screw head. When torquing the screws, work both directions a tiny bit at a time to minimize the chances of breaking the screws, they are pretty big and robust, but it still happens. In the original assembly from Lewmar, the aluminum baseplate was separated from the bronze center stem with a thin sheet of plastic. If this is missing or damaged, the galvanic corrosion that occurs makes this whole process a lot harder, and can cause serious damage. If the plastic piece is missing or not serviceable, you can either cut a new one, or use TefGel, Duralac, or lanolin to electrically isolate the parts. And, of course, ALWAYS use one of those anti-corrosion products on the stainless screws into aluminum parts! For anyone who is interested, the centerstem is available as a spare from Lewmar, but the aluminum baseplate is not. Not a big deal, the baseplate could be easily fabricated locally if it is damaged. Bill Kinney SM160, Harmonie Bridgetown, Barbados |
|
|
|
Hi Pat,
I am pretty sure that the screws don't extend into the fiberglass, but can't confirm that since we did not remove the base plate. That said, the screws are M8x16, so length is 16 mm (.630 inch). If you measure vertically from the screw down to the fiberglass you will be able to determine whether it goes beyond the base. Hope this helps! Cheers, Sher & Paul ARAMIS SM#444 Port Townsend, WA USA |
|
|
|
Patrick McAneny
Sher, At .63 they don't extend into the glass. I assumed that the base was just a spacer ,because the bolt pattern down below closely matches the pattern above. Also thanks for mentioning the different size pawls , I was not aware of the different sizes .I was just online trying to find a source to buy a kit to replace all the pawls and springs. If you have a source in the US. ,let me know.
Thanks for the help,
Pat
SM Shenanigans -----Original Message-----
From: Sher Scholer via groups.io <write2sher@...> To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Sent: Fri, Sep 9, 2022 4:28 pm Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Removing winch Hi Pat,
I am pretty sure that the screws don't extend into the fiberglass, but can't confirm that since we did not remove the base plate. That said, the screws are M8x16, so length is 16 mm (.630 inch). If you measure vertically from the screw down to the fiberglass you will be able to determine whether it goes beyond the base. Hope this helps! Cheers, Sher & Paul ARAMIS SM#444 Port Townsend, WA USA |
|
|
|
Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
Hi Pat, mine were too tight for a screw diver and the impact driver but the impact wrench worked after the obligatory soaking in CRC. In my experience the impact wrench does less slot damage than the alternatives. In the unlikely event of failure all is not lost because the whole screw can be drilled out and the residue removed with a worm tool known here as an easyout.
Kind Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
|
|
|
|
Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
Hi Pat, while you are on the winch job consider separating the electic motor and gearbox from the winch and replacing the lip seal between the motor and the oil filled gearbox. The seal failed on one of mine and the oil got into the motor which became irreparable. Incredibly there was an identical motor available from Lewmar in Auckland NZ, and this for a winch that was 20 years old. Now that is what I call incredible after sales service. My other winch wasn't leaking but I replaced the seal, a lot cheaper than a motor. I would recommend all owners with boats approaching 20 plus years old consider this preventative maintenance. After consulting the wisdom on this forum I found the task of removing the motor gearbox assembly simple and straightforward. For the one accessed from the port cockpit locker the biggest danger was dropping the very heavy unit on my face as I lay under it undoing the last bolt.
Kind Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
|
|
|
|
Pat,
I am attaching a PDF with the list of Lewmar 58ST and 58EST (Electric) winch parts. The pawls and springs can be purchased individually or in the service/maintenance kit (#19700401 and #48000019, respectively). We just ordered some from Mauripro Sailing, but they are also available at Defender, Fisheries Supply, and elsewhere. In case you are doing other winches, we have similar info for Lewmar 16, 40, and 44 as well as the Andersen Line Tender winch. The seal that Danny refers to is the one I mentioned in my first message. Part number is above and in the PDF. Cheers, Sher & Paul ARAMIS SM#444 Port Townsend, WA |
|
|
|
Patrick McAneny
Danny, Replacing the seal is a very good idea ,the seal is probably a bit cheaper than the motor. Is the instructions in the file section ?
In for a penny,in for a pound,
Pat -----Original Message-----
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io; Patrick McAneny via groups.io <sailw32@...> Sent: Fri, Sep 9, 2022 5:18 pm Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Removing winch
Hi Pat, while you are on the winch job consider separating the electic motor and gearbox from the winch and replacing the lip seal between the motor and the oil filled gearbox. The seal failed on one of mine and the oil got into the motor which became irreparable. Incredibly there was an identical motor available from Lewmar in Auckland NZ, and this for a winch that was 20 years old. Now that is what I call incredible after sales service. My other winch wasn't leaking but I replaced the seal, a lot cheaper than a motor. I would recommend all owners with boats approaching 20 plus years old consider this preventative maintenance. After consulting the wisdom on this forum I found the task of removing the motor gearbox assembly simple and straightforward. For the one accessed from the port cockpit locker the biggest danger was dropping the very heavy unit on my face as I lay under it undoing the last bolt.
Kind Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
|
|
|
|
Patrick McAneny
Sher, Thank you so much for all that info. I will place an order tomorrow .
Thanks Again,
Pat -----Original Message-----
From: Sher Scholer via groups.io <write2sher@...> To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Sent: Fri, Sep 9, 2022 5:32 pm Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Removing winch Pat,
I am attaching a PDF with the list of Lewmar 58ST and 58EST (Electric). The pawls and springs can be purchased individually or in the service/maintenance kit (#19700401 and #48000019, respectively). We just ordered some from Mauripro Sailing, but they are also available at Defender, Fisheries Supply, and elsewhere. In case you are doing other winches, we have similar info for Lewmar 16, 40, and 44 as well as the Andersen Line Tender winch. Cheers, Sher & Paul ARAMIS SM#444 Port Townsend, WA |
|
|
|
Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
Hi Pat, not sure if it is in the files section. Simply you will find four bolts with nuts holding the gearbox up onto the base of the winch. Undo those and the gearbox/motor assembly drops off easily. Dont forget it is HEAVY Photograph the wiring before separating it from the motor. Once you get the unit on the bench the separation of motor and gearbox is a logical process. The gearbox is oil filled so be sure the opening is upward as you remove the motor. I removed the seal and using the sizing marked on it got replacements from the local engineering supply store. Sorry I didnt photograph the process but as I said I got advice from the forum before proceeding.
Kind regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
|
|
|