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Currently drifting off the coast of Sicily!

Daniel Alexander Thompson
 

Hello Amelians

We're en-route to Sicily. I was sleeping. I gave Anette instructions to check the engine temp constantly dial while at the helm. 

She said that she heard the engine increase in revs for two seconds then back to normal for a second and then decreased for two seconds and then it and cut out. 

We have been at sea 36 hours with engine on and off during this time. The engine seems hot but we have been running her constantly for about 12 hours.

I checked the sea strainer. It is clean. Water is coming through the sea cock. There has been low engine temp throughout the journey.

I am guessing the impeller has gone and it overheated.

Can anybody tell me anything about this situation before i attempt to restart the engine?

Blessings
Daniel
Oronia Mango #14 1980
Perkins 4.236
Vladan SV PAME
 

Check the diesel filter.

Best Regards,
Vladan
A54 #157
SV PAME

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Daniel Alexander Thompson <Thompson.Xander@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2022 9:00:31 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Currently drifting off the coast of Sicily!
 

Hello Amelians

We're en-route to Sicily. I was sleeping. I gave Anette instructions to check the engine temp constantly dial while at the helm. 

She said that she heard the engine increase in revs for two seconds then back to normal for a second and then decreased for two seconds and then it and cut out. 

We have been at sea 36 hours with engine on and off during this time. The engine seems hot but we have been running her constantly for about 12 hours.

I checked the sea strainer. It is clean. Water is coming through the sea cock. There has been low engine temp throughout the journey.

I am guessing the impeller has gone and it overheated.

Can anybody tell me anything about this situation before i attempt to restart the engine?

Blessings
Daniel
Oronia Mango #14 1980
Perkins 4.236



--
Vladan

A54 #157
SV PAME
Daniel Alexander Thompson
 

Thanks Vladan. I will do after I have let the coolant cool down. 

The engine definitely overheated. The new tubs of engine oil are even hot next to the engine.

Anette says she checked the temp about ten minutes before it happened.

I thought an over temp alarm would sound if this happened. I should have checked this was functional.

Should i expect a complete engine rebuild out of this?

Blessings
Louis Trepanier
 

Hello Daniel,

This indeed sounds like a water pump problem.

When restarting the engine, look at the exhaust to see if the intermittent water flow is normal. If the water flow is erratic, this looks like an impeller loosing one or more vanes.

Hopefully, you have a spare onboard and can change the defective impeller. If there is swell, heave-to to stabilize the boat.

Good luck!

Louis
Amelia II
A54 2008

On Sep 13, 2022, at 9:00 AM, Daniel Alexander Thompson <Thompson.Xander@...> wrote:

Hello Amelians

We're en-route to Sicily. I was sleeping. I gave Anette instructions to check the engine temp constantly dial while at the helm. 

She said that she heard the engine increase in revs for two seconds then back to normal for a second and then decreased for two seconds and then it and cut out. 

We have been at sea 36 hours with engine on and off during this time. The engine seems hot but we have been running her constantly for about 12 hours.

I checked the sea strainer. It is clean. Water is coming through the sea cock. There has been low engine temp throughout the journey.

I am guessing the impeller has gone and it overheated.

Can anybody tell me anything about this situation before i attempt to restart the engine?

Blessings
Daniel
Oronia Mango #14 1980
Perkins 4.236
Daniel Alexander Thompson
 

Indeed Louis, thank you. I just want to let the fresh/raw coolant cool off and check the coolant level before i open up the impeller.

What normally happens when an engine doesn't automatically cut off at high temp? Does it blow the gasket and put exhaust into the coolant?

Blessings
Daniel Alexander Thompson
 

So, the fresh water coolant is at the correct level and is not contaminated.

The engine doesn't start. It always started first time, Mr Perkins.

Houston we have a problem. I will ask Bill for single incident cover.

Thank you, all.
Slavko Despotovic
 

Hello,

to me it sound like a diesel problem. Did you check water separator filter, if you have one?

--
Slavko
SM 2000
#279 Bonne Anse in Croatia
Daniel Alexander Thompson
 
Edited

Nice to hear from you again, Slavko. 

The smartest thing to do would have been to first check if any water came out of the bleed valve, yes. I just checked, now, and nothing came out. No fuel no water. So your Slovenian wisdom, hit the nail on the head, slavko. And Vladan was very close.

I checked the impeller. It is fine.

Unfortunately i just removed the second stage filter from the engine. So the entire fuel line will need bled.

So having NEVER bled a fuel system before, or changed ANY fuel filters on this engine, before, i am now in the rather difficult predicament of drifting off the coast of Italy with a double fuel filter change and a fuel line bleed, required.

I know the fuel tap that shuts off the main fuel tank. I know the water drain valve on the first filter. I know the uppermost bleed valve on the second filter.  I know the manual fuel lift pump. I have two new filters.

If anybody thinks that i need to know whereabouts of something else, to do a successful bleed, please let me know.
Louis Trepanier
 


If the heat sensor is working, the engine should stop and show a high temp signal on the display and-or- an alarm should sound if there is no fault display on your system.

If the impeller was the problem and the alarm din’t go on, have the sensor tested at next port. In the mean time, use the engine only for short period and at low rev. Because if the safety stop and heat display does not work by lack of sensor, there is indeed possibility of serious engine damage.

On Sep 13, 2022, at 9:27 AM, Daniel Alexander Thompson <Thompson.Xander@...> wrote:

Indeed Louis, thank you. I just want to let the fresh/raw coolant cool off and check the coolant level before i open up the impeller.

What normally happens when an engine doesn't automatically cut off at high temp? Does it blow the gasket and put exhaust into the coolant?

Blessings

Louis Trepanier
 

Just an advice in case that you don’t know; If you ask anyone to tow you for entering an anchorage or a port, don’t handle your line to the towing boat and ask them to give you their line. 
This makes a BIG difference as if you use your line, the tower can declare “salvage” which means, by the book,…claiming up to 50% of the value of your boat…Pirates are not only in Somalia- I had a very close call of this nature in a Greek Island a few years ago.

Also ask before any towing is done that they declare their condition for assistance.
Good luck with the fuel issue.

On Sep 13, 2022, at 11:51 AM, Louis Trepanier via groups.io <louis.alepa@...> wrote:


If the heat sensor is working, the engine should stop and show a high temp signal on the display and-or- an alarm should sound if there is no fault display on your system.

If the impeller was the problem and the alarm din’t go on, have the sensor tested at next port. In the mean time, use the engine only for short period and at low rev. Because if the safety stop and heat display does not work by lack of sensor, there is indeed possibility of serious engine damage.

On Sep 13, 2022, at 9:27 AM, Daniel Alexander Thompson <Thompson.Xander@...> wrote:

Indeed Louis, thank you. I just want to let the fresh/raw coolant cool off and check the coolant level before i open up the impeller.

What normally happens when an engine doesn't automatically cut off at high temp? Does it blow the gasket and put exhaust into the coolant?

Blessings
Daniel Alexander Thompson
 

Wow, Louis, thank you. So i should ask the towing boat for their line and never give them my line. Good to know.

It is a fuel line problem. I am now changing the filters and bleeding.

Thank you everybody.
Nick Newington
 

Daniel,

I would check for fuel starvation….sounds like you may have blocked fuel filter. Of course it could have overheated but normally there would be an alarm. The engine would also then run normally after it cooled down until it overheats again…

Good luck

Nick
S/Y Amelia 

AML 54-019

Lakki town 
Greece


On 13 Sep 2022, at 09:00, Daniel Alexander Thompson <Thompson.Xander@...> wrote:

Hello Amelians

We're en-route to Sicily. I was sleeping. I gave Anette instructions to check the engine temp constantly dial while at the helm. 

She said that she heard the engine increase in revs for two seconds then back to normal for a second and then decreased for two seconds and then it and cut out. 

We have been at sea 36 hours with engine on and off during this time. The engine seems hot but we have been running her constantly for about 12 hours.

I checked the sea strainer. It is clean. Water is coming through the sea cock. There has been low engine temp throughout the journey.

I am guessing the impeller has gone and it overheated.

Can anybody tell me anything about this situation before i attempt to restart the engine?

Blessings
Daniel
Oronia Mango #14 1980
Perkins 4.236
Daniel Alexander Thompson
 

Thanks, Nick. It is def fuel starvation.

I have never done a filter change on this engine before today and have never done a bleed on ANY engine, before today.

 

I filled both filters and their respective baskets, to the brim, with filtered diesel, before fitting them.  (I know it is better to change one at a time with a bleed in between. However, I took the second stage filter off before i realised that the first stage water separator had been emptied by the engine before it shut down)

 

I have taken off the bleeding bolt at the place which receives the high pressure pump return fuel and I am trying to pull fuel through with the manual lever of the fuel lift pump. It just won’t come through. I have done about one hundred pumps of the lever from lever bottom position to lever top position.

 

  1. Am I attempting to bleed the engine in the correct manner?
  2. If i want to check for a blockage from the main tank to the first fuel filter/water separator, do I just remove the intake and the fuel should flow out by gravity?
  3. If there is a block could I put the intake pipe into a jerry can of diesel and the system will pull it through without the gravity of the diesel in the tank?

Thank you, guys
Daniel
Oronia Mango #14 1980
Perkins 4.236
Slavko Despotovic
 

Venting the fuel system can be poor in some cases. Volvo recommend to turn the engine so that the drive cam for the pump changes position. It happened to me in my pervious boat.
one way or another you have to find if you are getting any diesel from your tank. Be careful as diesel 🔥. I do not know Mango so all what I am writing is based on experience from other boats I owned.

good luck.
--
Slavko
SM 2000
#279 Bonne Anse in Croatia
John Meskauskas
 

I had a Perkins stop on me in somewhat similar circumstances because the electric fuel lift pump failed.  I did not carry a spare at that time and another boater helped my situation but that seems unlikely for you.  If this is the case, is there a way that functionality could be jury-rigged?

 




On Sep 13, 2022, at 9:00 AM, Daniel Alexander Thompson <Thompson.Xander@...> wrote:

Hello Amelians

We're en-route to Sicily. I was sleeping. I gave Anette instructions to check the engine temp constantly dial while at the helm. 

She said that she heard the engine increase in revs for two seconds then back to normal for a second and then decreased for two seconds and then it and cut out. 

We have been at sea 36 hours with engine on and off during this time. The engine seems hot but we have been running her constantly for about 12 hours.

I checked the sea strainer. It is clean. Water is coming through the sea cock. There has been low engine temp throughout the journey.

I am guessing the impeller has gone and it overheated.

Can anybody tell me anything about this situation before i attempt to restart the engine?

Blessings
Daniel
Oronia Mango #14 1980
Perkins 4.236
Nick Newington
 

Daniel,

If the fuel tank is higher than the engine and quite full then you have gravity on your side, it makes it easy.

First turn off the fuel tank valve. 

Then clean the primary filter and replace the paper element.

Then take off the secondary filter spin on type. Replace it with a new one.

Then just above the secondary filter on the engine there will be e hex head nut with often a screw driver slot in it. Have a spanner or ratchet ready to open it.

Open the valve at the fuel tank, and open the bleed screw with the ratchet.  Gravity will make the diesel fill the primary filter and then up to the secondary filter at which point it will flow out of the open bleed screw. At first there will be frothy bubbles, then it will flow clear fuel. Close it tight. Not too tight just snug. 

At this point everything is bled up to the secondary fuel filter. On new engines you may be able to start the engine but if the engine is say 20 years old then it is better save your starting battery and crack the injectors. You will see that the hard metal fuel lines (pipes) go to the fuel pump and then to each cylinder. I think with a number 19 spanner you just open the injector nut a half turn for each one, place a rag by each one. Turn the engine over with the starter and when you see fuel spurt out of the injector line close it with the spanner. The engine will probably start on two cylinders and then three, and so on as you close the injectors.

If the fuel tank is below the engine; there will be an electric lift pump that comes on with the ignition. Do the same as above but with the ignition turned on, you will hear the clicking of the fuel pump.

I hope this helps.

If you sucked water into the engine fuel pump, then you have a problem. It will be damaged. You will need to wait for the wind and sail. More than likely need an expert.

If you get the engine running and all is well, when you get to a safe anchorage or harbour I strongly advise you to empty and clean your fuel tank. Filter the fuel and treat it.

Nick

S/Y Amelia Aml 54-019

Leros


On 13 Sep 2022, at 15:53, John Meskauskas <jmeskauskas71@...> wrote:

I had a Perkins stop on me in somewhat similar circumstances because the electric fuel lift pump failed.  I did not carry a spare at that time and another boater helped my situation but that seems unlikely for you.  If this is the case, is there a way that functionality could be jury-rigged?

 




On Sep 13, 2022, at 9:00 AM, Daniel Alexander Thompson <Thompson.Xander@...> wrote:

Hello Amelians

We're en-route to Sicily. I was sleeping. I gave Anette instructions to check the engine temp constantly dial while at the helm. 

She said that she heard the engine increase in revs for two seconds then back to normal for a second and then decreased for two seconds and then it and cut out. 

We have been at sea 36 hours with engine on and off during this time. The engine seems hot but we have been running her constantly for about 12 hours.

I checked the sea strainer. It is clean. Water is coming through the sea cock. There has been low engine temp throughout the journey. 

I am guessing the impeller has gone and it overheated.

Can anybody tell me anything about this situation before i attempt to restart the engine?

Blessings
Daniel
Oronia Mango #14 1980
Perkins 4.236
Daniel Alexander Thompson
 

Thanks, Nick. It was great to understand the relationship between bleeding the system and the injectors. When routinely replacing filters, do you think it is worthwhile to fill the filters with dlesel, before mounting.

Thanks, John. I think my fuel lift pump is gear driven from the main engine block. "think" with emphasis lol

Thanks, Slavko. I managed after a lot of WD40 to remove the copper fuel supply pipe from the pre-filter/water separator. There is no fuel coming from the main tank. So there is the problem. 

How do i unblock that hard copper pipe?

Is it possible to run the engine from a jerry can?

Blessings

Daniel
Oronia Mango #14
Ruslan Osmonov
 

hi Daniel, if you turn on ignition key and if you have electric fuel pump, you will hear it ticking. and the "heartbeat" could be slow or fast depending on the lines.
if you do have electric pump, then you dont really need to bleed the system, just let the pump run for some time, also usually by the pump there is small wheel valve that you can open to let the pump get rid of air faster. just dont forget to close it back, when you done.
if you have mechanical pump, then it will be quite an exercise for your fingers.  those pumps are small and require a lot of pushes to get fuel through the lines. 


If your copper line is clogged, one way to try is to push it all back, if you have an air pump on board (usually ppl carry it to air up fenders), you can try to pump it back into the tank.

If you do a jerry rig to take fuel from the jerry can, remember that you need to feed the return line back to the can, otherwise the engine will suck from the can and return it to the tank and it will do that very quickly. 

  

On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 10:14 AM Daniel Alexander Thompson <Thompson.Xander@...> wrote:
Thanks, Nick. It was great to understand the relationship between bleeding the system and the injectors. When routinely replacing filters, do you think it is worthwhile to fill the filters with dlesel, before mounting.

Thanks, John. I think my fuel lift pump is gear driven from the main engine block. "think" with emphasis lol

Thanks, Slavko. I managed after a lot of WD40 to remove the copper fuel supply pipe from the pre-filter/water separator. There is no fuel coming from the main tank. So there is the problem. 

How do i unblock that hard copper pipe?

Is it possible to run the engine from a jerry can?

Blessings

Daniel
Oronia Mango #14


--
Fair winds
Ruslan Osmonov
Phanthom, A54 #44
Daniel Alexander Thompson
 

Hi again, Nick

It took me un til now to get the fuel through to the bleed nut on the secondary engine filter. The engine is forty years old and will not start. Maybe it is in need of the injector remedy.

You wrote:
crack the injectors. You will see that the hard metal fuel lines (pipes) go to the fuel pump and then to each cylinder. I think with a number 19 spanner you just open the injector nut a half turn for each one, place a rag by each one. Turn the engine over with the starter and when you see fuel spurt out of the injector line close it with the spanner. The engine will probably start on two cylinders and then three, and so on as you close the injectors.


I've heard that injectors can inject a person with diesel and kill them. Is that the other end of the injector inside the engine or is it the the top nut of the injector that can do that?

If it is the top nut of the injector that is dangerous, then is it very important to only open them one half turn?

Blessings
Daniel
Oronia Mango #14
Daniel Alexander Thompson
 

Thank you, Rusian for the invaluable advice about clearing blockages. And of course! The return pipe!! I wouldn't have considered that. This forum is A+.

I have bled the two filters and now need to bleed the high pressure pump and injectors.

To do this, should i slightly open the four small nuts on top of the injector? (picture attached) which are part of the fuel return pipe 

Or, should i slightly open the four larger nuts to the bottom of the injector? The nut that is part of the injector supply.

Was this the type of injector you were expecting, Nick? I ask because i don't think either nut is a 19mm.

Blessings
Daniel
Oronia Mango #14
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