Topics

A54 fridge circulation pump

Sv Garulfo
 

Hello

We have flojet 32601 -0092 Quad series pump r4105512a. ( 12v, 1.5 A max, 1.6 gpm 6.1 lpm, 50 psi 3.4 max) installed onboard as circulation pump for fridges/freezer.

They are relatively easy to source.
We have previously replaced ours and have recently put the spare in service.
They seem to run for about 14months before the brushes wear out (more precisely, the springs on the brushes hit the backstops, brushes still having plenty of material). The pump can be dismantled and refurbished.
* For those running the same model, have you noticed similar lifespan?
* Has anyone installed an alternative model for longer service?
We weren’t expecting to have to replace them this often, and the brushes don’t seem to be available from the vendor for repair.
This may have already been addressed in a previous topic but we couldn’t locate the thread.

Thanks!

Best,


Thomas & Soraya
GARULFO
A54-122
Rangiroa, French Polynesia

www.instagram.com/svgarulfo

Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica
 

Hello guys!

We replaced the pump motor by an brushless motor. We had similar lifespan and shorter. Additional the original pump wasted lots of energy in wear.
We also changed the insulation of the freezer to modern vacum boards. Before the freezer compressor was 24 h on, due to poor insulatin. Now we got up to 1.5 h a day to keep it cool.
We also changed the fridge and freezer temperature controll to microcontroller.

Was a hell of a work.

Oliver from Vela Nautica
AMEL54 #39
Portugal


Sent from my Huawei Mobile


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] A54 fridge circulation pump
From: Sv Garulfo
To: Yahoo Group Amel
CC:


Hello

We have flojet 32601 -0092 Quad series pump r4105512a. ( 12v, 1.5 A max, 1.6 gpm 6.1 lpm, 50 psi 3.4 max) installed onboard as circulation pump for fridges/freezer.

They are relatively easy to source.
We have previously replaced ours and have recently put the spare in service.
They seem to run for about 14months before the brushes wear out (more precisely, the springs on the brushes hit the backstops, brushes still having plenty of material). The pump can be dismantled and refurbished.
* For those running the same model, have you noticed similar lifespan?
* Has anyone installed an alternative model for longer service?
We weren’t expecting to have to replace them this often, and the brushes don’t seem to be available from the vendor for repair.
This may have already been addressed in a previous topic but we couldn’t locate the thread.

Thanks!

Best,


Thomas & Soraya
GARULFO
A54-122
Rangiroa, French Polynesia

www.instagram.com/svgarulfo




Arno Luijten
 

Hi S&T,

Funny you mention this now. I have been using the Flojet pumps as recommended/supplied by Frigoboat. Those are actually 24 volt versions running on 12 Volt to lower the Amp-draw and extend the life span.
The first is true well enough but the second is not. We got 9 months of life out of a brand new pump. Completely worn out. Both the brushes and the commutator no longer serviceable.

So much for continuous duty for Flojet pumps. I have just ordered a March pump. This is a brushless pump with magnetic impeller coupling, so no shaft seal as well. It is a bit of a gamble as this pump is a volume-based pump and not a pressure-based pump like the Flojet.
But it is very much designed for continuous duty. As this is a centrifugal pump it is not self-priming but that is no problem given the location in the boat. The model is 893-11. This is a 12 volt version with open-air cooling and voltage protection. There is a 893-09 as well but model has no voltage protection and can supplied with two different motors of which only one is suitable. So the -11 is to be preferred.
So hopefully by end of November I will know if the pump is capable of moving enough water through the system to make three cooling compressors happy. Based on the displaced volume figures it should be no problem, but the hose/compressor circuit is quite long so the total resistance can be a problem. I paid approx US $250 for the pump, incl. shipping. Thanks to Alex Ramseyer (also on our forum) it will be delivered at my doorstep in some time (Thanks again Alex!).

You can find the pump here: http://www.marchpump.com/pumps/series-893/893-11/

Regards,
Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121
St. Maarten

 

Oliver, 

Which make and model of pump did you replace OEM with?

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Amel Yacht Owners School - www.YachtSchool.us
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970


On Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 3:57 AM Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica <oliver.henrichsen@...> wrote:
Hello guys!

We replaced the pump motor by an brushless motor. We had similar lifespan and shorter. Additional the original pump wasted lots of energy in wear.
We also changed the insulation of the freezer to modern vacum boards. Before the freezer compressor was 24 h on, due to poor insulatin. Now we got up to 1.5 h a day to keep it cool.
We also changed the fridge and freezer temperature controll to microcontroller.

Was a hell of a work.

Oliver from Vela Nautica
AMEL54 #39
Portugal


Sent from my Huawei Mobile


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] A54 fridge circulation pump
From: Sv Garulfo
To: Yahoo Group Amel
CC:


Hello

We have flojet 32601 -0092 Quad series pump r4105512a. ( 12v, 1.5 A max, 1.6 gpm 6.1 lpm, 50 psi 3.4 max) installed onboard as circulation pump for fridges/freezer.

They are relatively easy to source.
We have previously replaced ours and have recently put the spare in service.
They seem to run for about 14months before the brushes wear out (more precisely, the springs on the brushes hit the backstops, brushes still having plenty of material). The pump can be dismantled and refurbished.
* For those running the same model, have you noticed similar lifespan?
* Has anyone installed an alternative model for longer service?
We weren’t expecting to have to replace them this often, and the brushes don’t seem to be available from the vendor for repair.
This may have already been addressed in a previous topic but we couldn’t locate the thread.

Thanks!

Best,


Thomas & Soraya
GARULFO
A54-122
Rangiroa, French Polynesia

www.instagram.com/svgarulfo




Scott SV Tengah
 

I just went through this same saga. I purchased what I though were the 512A pumps, which Frigoboat actually rebrands and also sells as their own. Penguin Refrigeration UK advertised those on their website so I bought 4 of them, knowing that with two fridges and a third freezer, the pump is running nearly constantly.

They sent me the 4105-343 which they promised is as good or better. It lasted about 6 months. Thankfully we were aboard, otherwise we would have lost a lot of food! 

I contacted the director of sales at March and he said that their pumps would NOT be suitable for our application. Keep in mind that our refrigeration system was originally plumbed to circulate from the freshwater tank, so the March pump was unable to self-prime and consequently wouldn't work. Might be different with a saltwater cooling setup.

Lately I purchased the Marco UP-2P 24v pump and will run it as a 12v pump, just like the original Frigoboat. The specs seem similar, perhaps with less current draw. They use a teflon impeller gear, so that should be more durable than the diaphragm on the Flojet. Bad news is that it's got brushes and Marco expects 2500-3000 hours from it. The upside is that I can quickly and cheaply replace the seals and brushes. I will install it after the second Frigoboat pump dies and will let everyone know if it works well and lasts longer than 6 months..

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Scott SV Tengah
 

Oliver,

Could you tell us more about upgrading/replacing the freezer insulation? I assume you mean the one under the settee? 

Did you scrape off all the old insulation and replace? What model vacuum boards did you use? I, too, notice that my freezer compressor is running 24h.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica
 

Hello,

We got 1 fridge and freezer in our boat, we gave the freezer in the pantry a complete refit.

1. Step is to refit AMEL freezer insulations. We removed the complete old imsulation. Sorry to say but it was poorly build in terms of condens water block, open sidecuts at the old foam boards so the foam was soaked with condens. Beside tha this foam is only max 60mm what is not enough for tropics. Because of limited space we choose most efficient isolation boards.
It needs to remove the complete freezer. The only way to do so was to enter from the top and chop the wooden boards, also soaked with water and mould. Wood is not a propper insulation for freezers.
2. Step ist to install a condenswater block membrane.
3. Step install install sandwich vacum boards. These boards got factor 5 of insulation against standard closed cell foam. So with 6cm it eaquals 20 to 24 cm foam.
4. We reused the original stainless inside case. The hole process needs extremly carefull work that there is not the tinies hole left for condens water to enter. What you get is insulated like a thermos bottle.

With this upgrade of freezer the compressor stops 24h working and with that the cooling pump. But we did not touch the fridge. With that we got on times of freezer of 2h per day and fridge of 3h per day. The new controller cares that both units will work at the same time when ever possible. Example: so the cool pump wont run first for the fridge and 5 mins later when the freezer starts it will rum again. The "intelligent"
Controler cares that operating times are bundled.
We got these operating times with 30 degrees outside temperatures.

I did not change the pump, I changed the pump motor and motor controller to brushless. My pumps never failed it was always the brushed motor and bearings that wore out.

With these steps the cooling system works efficient.

I will look for the brands i used later and post it.

Oliver
A54#39
Portugal



Sent from my Huawei Mobile


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] A54 fridge circulation pump
From: Scott SV Tengah
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
CC:


Oliver,

Could you tell us more about upgrading/replacing the freezer insulation? I assume you mean the one under the settee? 

Did you scrape off all the old insulation and replace? What model vacuum boards did you use? I, too, notice that my freezer compressor is running 24h.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Sv Garulfo
 

Hi Oliver

We would be interested in the details of the brushless motor and motor controller as it has been the same in our case ( pump still working, only brushes wear out). 

Thanks for your help. 

Soraya
Garulfo A54#122
Tuamotus, French Polynesia 


On 23 Sep 2019, at 22:16, Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica <oliver.henrichsen@...> wrote:

Hello,

We got 1 fridge and freezer in our boat, we gave the freezer in the pantry a complete refit.

1. Step is to refit AMEL freezer insulations. We removed the complete old imsulation. Sorry to say but it was poorly build in terms of condens water block, open sidecuts at the old foam boards so the foam was soaked with condens. Beside tha this foam is only max 60mm what is not enough for tropics. Because of limited space we choose most efficient isolation boards.
It needs to remove the complete freezer. The only way to do so was to enter from the top and chop the wooden boards, also soaked with water and mould. Wood is not a propper insulation for freezers.
2. Step ist to install a condenswater block membrane.
3. Step install install sandwich vacum boards. These boards got factor 5 of insulation against standard closed cell foam. So with 6cm it eaquals 20 to 24 cm foam.
4. We reused the original stainless inside case. The hole process needs extremly carefull work that there is not the tinies hole left for condens water to enter. What you get is insulated like a thermos bottle.

With this upgrade of freezer the compressor stops 24h working and with that the cooling pump. But we did not touch the fridge. With that we got on times of freezer of 2h per day and fridge of 3h per day. The new controller cares that both units will work at the same time when ever possible. Example: so the cool pump wont run first for the fridge and 5 mins later when the freezer starts it will rum again. The "intelligent"
Controler cares that operating times are bundled.
We got these operating times with 30 degrees outside temperatures.

I did not change the pump, I changed the pump motor and motor controller to brushless. My pumps never failed it was always the brushed motor and bearings that wore out.

With these steps the cooling system works efficient.

I will look for the brands i used later and post it.

Oliver
A54#39
Portugal



Sent from my Huawei Mobile


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] A54 fridge circulation pump
From: Scott SV Tengah
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
CC:


Oliver,

Could you tell us more about upgrading/replacing the freezer insulation? I assume you mean the one under the settee? 

Did you scrape off all the old insulation and replace? What model vacuum boards did you use? I, too, notice that my freezer compressor is running 24h.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Scott SV Tengah
 
Edited

Soraya,

I can say that the March Brushless won't work if you're cooling the fridges with fresh water. I switched to a Marco UP2A (Correction: UP2-P) pump as you can replace the brushes/seals for cheap and they seem to meet my requirements: low draw and 4L per minute at 12v.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Sv Garulfo
 

Hi,

We don’t cool the fridge with fresh water. We thought of doing it but then abandoned the idea for a number of reasons. However I’m puzzled about your comment, can you give more details?

Thanks for the tip on the up2a pump!

Best,

On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 at 09:21, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
Soraya,

I can say that the March Brushless won't work if you're cooling the fridges with fresh water. I switched to a Marco UP2A pump as you can replace the brushes/seals for cheap and they seem to meet my requirements: low draw and 4L per minute at 12v.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

 

March will not have the required lift if you use the freshwater tank.

--
CW Bill Rouse Amel Yacht Owners School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   


On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 2:58 PM Sv Garulfo <svgarulfo@...> wrote:
Hi,

We don’t cool the fridge with fresh water. We thought of doing it but then abandoned the idea for a number of reasons. However I’m puzzled about your comment, can you give more details?

Thanks for the tip on the up2a pump!

Best,

On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 at 09:21, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
Soraya,

I can say that the March Brushless won't work if you're cooling the fridges with fresh water. I switched to a Marco UP2A pump as you can replace the brushes/seals for cheap and they seem to meet my requirements: low draw and 4L per minute at 12v.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Scott SV Tengah
 

Exactly right. The keel (aka freshwater tank) is below the pump but I think the waterline is above it.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Arno Luijten
 

Hi Scott,

I looked up the Marco UP2A pump. According to the tech specs it draws around 3 amps @ 12 Volt. AFAIK that is too much for the pump switch that is normally installed on the A54. Did you remove this or did you something else to make this work.
It does seem to be more power hungry than the original solution. This I why I'm going to test the March pump. But I'm using sea-water for the cooling.

Regards,

Arno
SV Luna,
A54-121

Scott SV Tengah
 

Arno,

I misspoke. I meant the UP-2P. That one just runs full speed when there is current applied to it. No need to have the pump build and regulate pressure, which is what the UP-2A does.

In any event, the electrical draws are the same. 

What I do is what Frigoboat does with the Flojet pumps. They sell you the 24v Flojet 4105-343 pump and have you run it at 12v. I take the 24v UP-2P pump and run it at 12v. That makes them run slower, draw less current and last longer.  

If I was in your position with SW cooled fridges, I would try the March pump. I wonder what happens if you're a rough seaway and get some air in the system though. Would the March be able to overcome that air bubble and reprime? I don't know the answer to that. 

The Frigoboat W50F that I have on my 54 requires a gallon a minute, so a little under 4L.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Arno Luijten
 

Hi Scott,

Thanks for the reply. The reason I ordered the March pump is because it seems the best bet for a pump that needs to run for extended periods, no brushes an no shaft seal. I’m not so worried about rough seaway as the pump sits below sea level. So even if it draws air for a moment the next moment the boat movement will push water in the sea-chest.

Sv Garulfo
 


Ok thanks Bill and Scott, that’s what I guessed 

On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 at 11:45, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
Exactly right. The keel (aka freshwater tank) is below the pump but I think the waterline is above it.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Craig Briggs SN 68 Sangaris
 

Hi Arno,
I've got a March and, yes, it does occasionally lose it's prime in rough conditions. Sometimes it recovers by itself, other times it needs to be manually primed (removing the outlet hose to flood it with sea water). On the SN there is no sea-chest, so it may be less of an issue for you, but if it sucks air it may not re-prime.

Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica
 

Hi guys,

Here is what we used:

I did reuse the flowjet pump and replaced the motor by a brushless scooter motor. These motors are very strong and got no wear parts except the ballbearings for less then 2 euros.
I mounted the motor on an L shaped 6mm aluminium and the pump from the oposite side.
The D shaped 8mm shaft is the same like the original flowjet shaft.
The motor is driven by 60% speed and works flawless while over sized. It takes less ten 1A at 24 V pushing 10 liter per min.
The motor does not get warm at all = no wasted energy, as before.
It would be possible to controll the wateroutput according to raw water temperature. I did not use this feature jet.

To drive a brushless motor, it needs a speedcontroller. I used the VESC for it, also way oversizedwhile capable to controll high currents.
We connect the 24v batterie directly to the VESC. No more using step down to 12 V wasting more energy.

The motor/pump speed is open to be controlled from 0 to 100%

€ 50,91 | ESK8 6368 BLDC outrunner bürstenlosen motor 190KV 280KV sensored sensorlose 22-48 V für elektrische balancing roller e- skateboard
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/2Yrn2Uz6

D-shaped shaft 190 kv, shaft has 8mm diameter, sensored.

€ 55,36 36%OFF | FSESC 4,12 50A Basierend auf VESC 4,12 Elektro Speed Controller für Skateboard/E-roller Zubehör Flipsky
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/rkgt1kV2

We use it now without any failing pump anymore.

Oliver from
VELANAUTICA.ORG
AMEL 54#39

PORTUGAL

Sent from my Huawei Mobile


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] A54 fridge circulation pump
From: Sv Garulfo
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
CC:


Hi Oliver

We would be interested in the details of the brushless motor and motor controller as it has been the same in our case ( pump still working, only brushes wear out). 

Thanks for your help. 

Soraya
Garulfo A54#122
Tuamotus, French Polynesia 


On 23 Sep 2019, at 22:16, Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica <oliver.henrichsen@...> wrote:

Hello,

We got 1 fridge and freezer in our boat, we gave the freezer in the pantry a complete refit.

1. Step is to refit AMEL freezer insulations. We removed the complete old imsulation. Sorry to say but it was poorly build in terms of condens water block, open sidecuts at the old foam boards so the foam was soaked with condens. Beside tha this foam is only max 60mm what is not enough for tropics. Because of limited space we choose most efficient isolation boards.
It needs to remove the complete freezer. The only way to do so was to enter from the top and chop the wooden boards, also soaked with water and mould. Wood is not a propper insulation for freezers.
2. Step ist to install a condenswater block membrane.
3. Step install install sandwich vacum boards. These boards got factor 5 of insulation against standard closed cell foam. So with 6cm it eaquals 20 to 24 cm foam.
4. We reused the original stainless inside case. The hole process needs extremly carefull work that there is not the tinies hole left for condens water to enter. What you get is insulated like a thermos bottle.

With this upgrade of freezer the compressor stops 24h working and with that the cooling pump. But we did not touch the fridge. With that we got on times of freezer of 2h per day and fridge of 3h per day. The new controller cares that both units will work at the same time when ever possible. Example: so the cool pump wont run first for the fridge and 5 mins later when the freezer starts it will rum again. The "intelligent"
Controler cares that operating times are bundled.
We got these operating times with 30 degrees outside temperatures.

I did not change the pump, I changed the pump motor and motor controller to brushless. My pumps never failed it was always the brushed motor and bearings that wore out.

With these steps the cooling system works efficient.

I will look for the brands i used later and post it.

Oliver
A54#39
Portugal



Sent from my Huawei Mobile


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] A54 fridge circulation pump
From: Scott SV Tengah
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
CC:


Oliver,

Could you tell us more about upgrading/replacing the freezer insulation? I assume you mean the one under the settee? 

Did you scrape off all the old insulation and replace? What model vacuum boards did you use? I, too, notice that my freezer compressor is running 24h.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Arno Luijten
 

Hi Oliver,

That is clever. It solves the problem of brushes and shaft seals in one go. Do you keep spares for the pump mechanism and for the motor/controller?
What did you to to replace the pump-switch?

Kind regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121

Scott SV Tengah
 

Oliver,

If possible, I'd love to see photos of this setup. It sounds like a brilliant solution.

Also, could you tell us more about the intelligent controller that tries to "bundle" when the compressors for your two fridges run?
--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com