A curious leak ….


ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@hotmail.com>
 

There's a cold beer / glass of wine for anyone who can solve this mystery . 
 Today we found fresh water in the bilge to port. Maybe 10-15 litres. The water was in the bilge under the sink and also in the bilge on the aft side of the table . Nowhere else.
The usual suspects proved innocent -- being the Seagull water filter ( previously guilty ) the galley tap and the drain pipes from both sinks . 

We  store wine bottles in a plastic box in the bilge under the aft side of the table . The box has sides about 12 inches , 25 cm , high. It doesn't leak . Somehow  about one litre of the fresh water found its way inside the box  even though it was only about 2 inches deep in the bilge . 

If there was a fresh water pipe leaking you would expect the pump to run occasionally. It doesn't . 

My next test is the washing machine despite the water in the bilge being clean of suds etc . Even if that is the culprit how did water get into the wine box ? 

I will report on the answer but if anyone can suggest a solution to the mystery that would be very welcome.

Ian and Judy , Pen Azen , SM 302, Lavrion , Greece 


Chip Beaman
 

If you have a dishwasher, check that. Same thing happened, looked everywhere. Opened the dishwasher and it was full of water. 
Chip
KOA #430


On Sep 13, 2022, at 9:16 AM, ianjudyjenkins@... wrote:


There's a cold beer / glass of wine for anyone who can solve this mystery . 
 Today we found fresh water in the bilge to port. Maybe 10-15 litres. The water was in the bilge under the sink and also in the bilge on the aft side of the table . Nowhere else.
The usual suspects proved innocent -- being the Seagull water filter ( previously guilty ) the galley tap and the drain pipes from both sinks . 

We  store wine bottles in a plastic box in the bilge under the aft side of the table . The box has sides about 12 inches , 25 cm , high. It doesn't leak . Somehow  about one litre of the fresh water found its way inside the box  even though it was only about 2 inches deep in the bilge . 

If there was a fresh water pipe leaking you would expect the pump to run occasionally. It doesn't . 

My next test is the washing machine despite the water in the bilge being clean of suds etc . Even if that is the culprit how did water get into the wine box ? 

I will report on the answer but if anyone can suggest a solution to the mystery that would be very welcome.

Ian and Judy , Pen Azen , SM 302, Lavrion , Greece 


VICTOR MOLERO
 

Ian and Judi. I had one such leak and the inexplicable thing was that some times it was fresh water, and other times it was salt water. I even took the boat all the way from Greece to Hyers to have Amel technicians' diagnosis. No clue. To make the long story short, it was as leak that came from the outside rail around the hull. There was a small crack in the junction of deck to hull. If you need more details, let me know.
Best.
Victor
Alendoy SM314


 

Water can flow from/to all of these compartments. If you have an accumulator tank, it is possible that enough water will leak between running cycles to total this amount of water.

Remember the clothes washer drain hose is not sealed to the drain pipe. This is the way it is made. A partial clog of the drain pipe will cause some water to flow out of the junction between the hose and the pipe.

Air Conditioning Condensation will produce that much water,

If you have a galley sink faucet with a flexible hose and wand, the wands sometimes leak at the connection to the hose, and this water leaks through the wand holder to areas below the sink.

You also have every junction of copper to hose and evey gate valve to check.

I have found the best way to find a leak is to clean everything up and dry it all. Lay paper towels everywhere that I have discussed above and monitor it closely to see which paper towel gets wet. If none get wet and you still have water accumulating, you have not placed paper towels in the "right places."

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   

On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 6:16 PM ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@...> <ianjudyjenkins@...> wrote:
There's a cold beer / glass of wine for anyone who can solve this mystery . 
 Today we found fresh water in the bilge to port. Maybe 10-15 litres. The water was in the bilge under the sink and also in the bilge on the aft side of the table . Nowhere else.
The usual suspects proved innocent -- being the Seagull water filter ( previously guilty ) the galley tap and the drain pipes from both sinks . 

We  store wine bottles in a plastic box in the bilge under the aft side of the table . The box has sides about 12 inches , 25 cm , high. It doesn't leak . Somehow  about one litre of the fresh water found its way inside the box  even though it was only about 2 inches deep in the bilge . 

If there was a fresh water pipe leaking you would expect the pump to run occasionally. It doesn't . 

My next test is the washing machine despite the water in the bilge being clean of suds etc . Even if that is the culprit how did water get into the wine box ? 

I will report on the answer but if anyone can suggest a solution to the mystery that would be very welcome.

Ian and Judy , Pen Azen , SM 302, Lavrion , Greece 


Chuck_Kim_Joy
 

Washing machine. When it leaks the water can make its way everywhere. If your wine box was pressed against the side then the water would drip down from above as the machine sits higher. 

On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 6:16 PM ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@...> <ianjudyjenkins@...> wrote:
There's a cold beer / glass of wine for anyone who can solve this mystery . 
 Today we found fresh water in the bilge to port. Maybe 10-15 litres. The water was in the bilge under the sink and also in the bilge on the aft side of the table . Nowhere else.
The usual suspects proved innocent -- being the Seagull water filter ( previously guilty ) the galley tap and the drain pipes from both sinks . 

We  store wine bottles in a plastic box in the bilge under the aft side of the table . The box has sides about 12 inches , 25 cm , high. It doesn't leak . Somehow  about one litre of the fresh water found its way inside the box  even though it was only about 2 inches deep in the bilge . 

If there was a fresh water pipe leaking you would expect the pump to run occasionally. It doesn't . 

My next test is the washing machine despite the water in the bilge being clean of suds etc . Even if that is the culprit how did water get into the wine box ? 

I will report on the answer but if anyone can suggest a solution to the mystery that would be very welcome.

Ian and Judy , Pen Azen , SM 302, Lavrion , Greece 


ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@hotmail.com>
 

Thank you Bill , Chuck and Victor , 

I think the hottest clue must be the washing machine so that’s where I will start tomorrow .  It’s definitely fresh water

Ian

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2022 3:45:13 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] A curious leak ….
 
Water can flow from/to all of these compartments. If you have an accumulator tank, it is possible that enough water will leak between running cycles to total this amount of water.

Remember the clothes washer drain hose is not sealed to the drain pipe. This is the way it is made. A partial clog of the drain pipe will cause some water to flow out of the junction between the hose and the pipe.

Air Conditioning Condensation will produce that much water,

If you have a galley sink faucet with a flexible hose and wand, the wands sometimes leak at the connection to the hose, and this water leaks through the wand holder to areas below the sink.

You also have every junction of copper to hose and evey gate valve to check.

I have found the best way to find a leak is to clean everything up and dry it all. Lay paper towels everywhere that I have discussed above and monitor it closely to see which paper towel gets wet. If none get wet and you still have water accumulating, you have not placed paper towels in the "right places."

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   

On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 6:16 PM ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@...> <ianjudyjenkins@...> wrote:

There's a cold beer / glass of wine for anyone who can solve this mystery . 
 Today we found fresh water in the bilge to port. Maybe 10-15 litres. The water was in the bilge under the sink and also in the bilge on the aft side of the table . Nowhere else.
The usual suspects proved innocent -- being the Seagull water filter ( previously guilty ) the galley tap and the drain pipes from both sinks . 

We  store wine bottles in a plastic box in the bilge under the aft side of the table . The box has sides about 12 inches , 25 cm , high. It doesn't leak . Somehow  about one litre of the fresh water found its way inside the box  even though it was only about 2 inches deep in the bilge . 

If there was a fresh water pipe leaking you would expect the pump to run occasionally. It doesn't . 

My next test is the washing machine despite the water in the bilge being clean of suds etc . Even if that is the culprit how did water get into the wine box ? 

I will report on the answer but if anyone can suggest a solution to the mystery that would be very welcome.

Ian and Judy , Pen Azen , SM 302, Lavrion , Greece 


Jeppe Jonsson
 
Edited

It may also be the manual emergency pump under the sinks. When I overfilled the tanks the water was dispersed into exactly these places. Now I have raised the manual emergency hand-pump/(oil-pump) so that it is fixed just under the sink and not lying low near the bottom.
Best wishes 
Jeppe Jönsson
RHUMB RUNNER
SM464


Nick Newington
 

My money is on aircon condensation overflow.
Nick 
S/Y Amelia
Leros


On 13 Sep 2022, at 22:41, Jeppe Jonsson via groups.io <jepjons@...> wrote:



[Edited Message Follows]

It may also be the manual emergency pump under the sinks. When I overfilled the tanks the water was dispersed into exactly these places. Now I have raised the manual emergency hand-pump/(oil-pump) so that it is fixed just under the sink and not lying low near the bottom.
Best wishes 
Jeppe Jönsson
RHUMB RUNNER
SM464


Michael & Robyn
 

Greetings!

We had condensation from the Galley fridge generating lakes in the areas you described.
Our fridge door hook was busted and the fridge compressor was running almost permanently.
Also the system was overfilled and caused the pipes to ice up and drip.
--
Michael & Robyn

SY RIPPLE SM2K # 417


ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@hotmail.com>
 

Thank you Nick, Jeppe, Michael and Robyn,

Great to get all these suggestions. We have only been afloat for 5 days  so I think the washing machine is 5/4 on  favourite at the moment with the manual pump  at 3/1 as an interesting possibility ( we had just filled our tanks).
I'm still puzzled by the fact that clean water managed to get inside our wine storage box.
Breakfast over, the race is about to start. I'll let you know what we find .


Ian and Judy, Pen Azen, SM302,  Greece (anchored at Sounion with its wonderful temple whose Gods are now also  being asked for guidance....you never know..... )

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Michael & Robyn <SY_RIPPLE@...>
Sent: 14 September 2022 02:52
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] A curious leak ….
 
Greetings!

We had condensation from the Galley fridge generating lakes in the areas you described.
Our fridge door hook was busted and the fridge compressor was running almost permanently.
Also the system was overfilled and caused the pipes to ice up and drip.
--
Michael & Robyn

SY RIPPLE SM2K # 417


Ross Hickey & Donna Hammond
 

Check under the dish water as you may have a leak inside the dish washer box.

Cheers 
Ross and Donna
SV INTREPID KIWI
SM2K #356

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022, 8:24 AM, ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@...> <ianjudyjenkins@...> wrote:

Thank you Nick, Jeppe, Michael and Robyn,

Great to get all these suggestions. We have only been afloat for 5 days  so I think the washing machine is 5/4 on  favourite at the moment with the manual pump  at 3/1 as an interesting possibility ( we had just filled our tanks).
I'm still puzzled by the fact that clean water managed to get inside our wine storage box.
Breakfast over, the race is about to start. I'll let you know what we find .


Ian and Judy, Pen Azen, SM302,  Greece (anchored at Sounion with its wonderful temple whose Gods are now also  being asked for guidance....you never know..... )

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Michael & Robyn <SY_RIPPLE@...>
Sent: 14 September 2022 02:52
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] A curious leak ….
 
Greetings!

We had condensation from the Galley fridge generating lakes in the areas you described.
Our fridge door hook was busted and the fridge compressor was running almost permanently.
Also the system was overfilled and caused the pipes to ice up and drip.
--
Michael & Robyn

SY RIPPLE SM2K # 417


--
Ross Hickey & Donna Hammond
SV Intrepid Kiwi
SM2K #356
Currently in Turkey


ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@hotmail.com>
 

Thanks, Ross and Donna,
 We hadn't checked the dishwasher as we haven't used it for the past 10 years. Checked it after reading your suggestion but ,like the rest, it's bone dry.   So far, two days have passed without any further  water appearing. Maybe we just upset a goblin.

 Ian and Judy, Pen Azen, SM 302, Greece

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Ross Hickey & Donna Hammond via groups.io <southernadventurer@...>
Sent: 14 September 2022 08:14
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] A curious leak ….
 
Check under the dish water as you may have a leak inside the dish washer box.

Cheers 
Ross and Donna
SV INTREPID KIWI
SM2K #356
Currently in Spain


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022, 8:24 AM, ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@...> <ianjudyjenkins@...> wrote:

Thank you Nick, Jeppe, Michael and Robyn,

Great to get all these suggestions. We have only been afloat for 5 days  so I think the washing machine is 5/4 on  favourite at the moment with the manual pump  at 3/1 as an interesting possibility ( we had just filled our tanks).
I'm still puzzled by the fact that clean water managed to get inside our wine storage box.
Breakfast over, the race is about to start. I'll let you know what we find .


Ian and Judy, Pen Azen, SM302,  Greece (anchored at Sounion with its wonderful temple whose Gods are now also  being asked for guidance....you never know..... )

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Michael & Robyn <SY_RIPPLE@...>
Sent: 14 September 2022 02:52
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] A curious leak ….
 
Greetings!

We had condensation from the Galley fridge generating lakes in the areas you described.
Our fridge door hook was busted and the fridge compressor was running almost permanently.
Also the system was overfilled and caused the pipes to ice up and drip.
--
Michael & Robyn

SY RIPPLE SM2K # 417


--
Ross Hickey & Donna Hammond
SV Intrepid Kiwi
SM2K #356
Currently in Turkey


Ross Hickey & Donna Hammond
 

No worries Ian and Judy,

This happened to us with the same areas filled with water. It happened during the vessel survey when the dishwasher was tested. The leak was a connection under the dishwasher but inside the stainless casing.

I guess no bear foe me then.

All the best 

Ross and Donna
SV INTREPID KIWI
SM2K #356

On Thursday, September 15, 2022, 9:46 AM, ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@...> <ianjudyjenkins@...> wrote:

Thanks, Ross and Donna,
 We hadn't checked the dishwasher as we haven't used it for the past 10 years. Checked it after reading your suggestion but ,like the rest, it's bone dry.   So far, two days have passed without any further  water appearing. Maybe we just upset a goblin.

 Ian and Judy, Pen Azen, SM 302, Greece

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Ross Hickey & Donna Hammond via groups.io <southernadventurer@...>
Sent: 14 September 2022 08:14
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] A curious leak ….
 
Check under the dish water as you may have a leak inside the dish washer box.

Cheers 
Ross and Donna
SV INTREPID KIWI
SM2K #356
Currently in Spain


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022, 8:24 AM, ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@...> <ianjudyjenkins@...> wrote:

Thank you Nick, Jeppe, Michael and Robyn,

Great to get all these suggestions. We have only been afloat for 5 days  so I think the washing machine is 5/4 on  favourite at the moment with the manual pump  at 3/1 as an interesting possibility ( we had just filled our tanks).
I'm still puzzled by the fact that clean water managed to get inside our wine storage box.
Breakfast over, the race is about to start. I'll let you know what we find .


Ian and Judy, Pen Azen, SM302,  Greece (anchored at Sounion with its wonderful temple whose Gods are now also  being asked for guidance....you never know..... )

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Michael & Robyn <SY_RIPPLE@...>
Sent: 14 September 2022 02:52
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] A curious leak ….
 
Greetings!

We had condensation from the Galley fridge generating lakes in the areas you described.
Our fridge door hook was busted and the fridge compressor was running almost permanently.
Also the system was overfilled and caused the pipes to ice up and drip.
--
Michael & Robyn

SY RIPPLE SM2K # 417


--
Ross Hickey & Donna Hammond
SV Intrepid Kiwi
SM2K #356
Currently in Turkey

--
Ross Hickey & Donna Hammond
SV Intrepid Kiwi
SM2K #356
Currently in Turkey


Nick Newington
 

 Could it be a deck leak? Only after heavy rain or wash down?


On 15 Sep 2022, at 11:07, Ross Hickey & Donna Hammond via groups.io <southernadventurer@...> wrote:

 No worries Ian and Judy,

This happened to us with the same areas filled with water. It happened during the vessel survey when the dishwasher was tested. The leak was a connection under the dishwasher but inside the stainless casing.

I guess no bear foe me then.

All the best 

Ross and Donna
SV INTREPID KIWI
SM2K #356
Currently in Spain


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Thursday, September 15, 2022, 9:46 AM, ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@...> <ianjudyjenkins@...> wrote:

Thanks, Ross and Donna,
 We hadn't checked the dishwasher as we haven't used it for the past 10 years. Checked it after reading your suggestion but ,like the rest, it's bone dry.   So far, two days have passed without any further  water appearing. Maybe we just upset a goblin.

 Ian and Judy, Pen Azen, SM 302, Greece

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Ross Hickey & Donna Hammond via groups.io <southernadventurer@...>
Sent: 14 September 2022 08:14
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] A curious leak ….
 
Check under the dish water as you may have a leak inside the dish washer box.

Cheers 
Ross and Donna
SV INTREPID KIWI
SM2K #356
Currently in Spain


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022, 8:24 AM, ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@...> <ianjudyjenkins@...> wrote:

Thank you Nick, Jeppe, Michael and Robyn,

Great to get all these suggestions. We have only been afloat for 5 days  so I think the washing machine is 5/4 on  favourite at the moment with the manual pump  at 3/1 as an interesting possibility ( we had just filled our tanks).
I'm still puzzled by the fact that clean water managed to get inside our wine storage box.
Breakfast over, the race is about to start. I'll let you know what we find .


Ian and Judy, Pen Azen, SM302,  Greece (anchored at Sounion with its wonderful temple whose Gods are now also  being asked for guidance....you never know..... )

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Michael & Robyn <SY_RIPPLE@...>
Sent: 14 September 2022 02:52
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] A curious leak ….
 
Greetings!

We had condensation from the Galley fridge generating lakes in the areas you described.
Our fridge door hook was busted and the fridge compressor was running almost permanently.
Also the system was overfilled and caused the pipes to ice up and drip.
--
Michael & Robyn

SY RIPPLE SM2K # 417


--
Ross Hickey & Donna Hammond
SV Intrepid Kiwi
SM2K #356
Currently in Turkey

--
Ross Hickey & Donna Hammond
SV Intrepid Kiwi
SM2K #356
Currently in Turkey


Trevor Lusty
 

Ian,
     The really obvious one, overflow from the fresh water gauge?

Best regards,

Trevor Lusty
Ireland

PS I  fell victim to the dishwater twice, destroying months of dry goods, so in the end took it out and made locker for saucepans


ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@hotmail.com>
 

Hi Trevor,

 I wish it were----I have done that a few times but it always ended up soaking the little bilge area under the steps. Bone dry this time!

Ian

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Trevor Lusty <trevlusty@...>
Sent: 15 September 2022 11:06
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] A curious leak ….
 
Ian,
     The really obvious one, overflow from the fresh water gauge?

Best regards,

Trevor Lusty
Ireland

PS I  fell victim to the dishwater twice, destroying months of dry goods, so in the end took it out and made locker for saucepans


rossirossix4
 

Hi Ian,
You mentioned that water was in the bilge on the aft side of the table.  I am not on my SM but I think on the inside wall of that locker is a vent of some sort for the water tank.  There is a stopper and I think you can close it.  I discovered it after I had filled the water tank very full.  I will be aboard on the 29th and can send you a photo but take a look.  It would be on a vertical surface inside that aft salon table locker as I recall.  Lavrion, eh?....I'll take a glass of Retsina.   We were bout 5 miles away "as the crow flies" anchored in Souno  --  https://www.dropbox.com/sc/qh4ejqpfa9pz5pj/AACdVX8Jr3qb8XIO5G7ktk3Na    Cheers.
Bob and Suzanne   KAIMI SM429


Mark Erdos
 

Did you find it?

Mark


ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@hotmail.com>
 

Hi Bob and Suzanne,

 I do know the stopper you mean, but that was intact and hadn't moved. Still a mystery!

Ian

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of rossirossix4 <rossidesigngroup@...>
Sent: 16 September 2022 01:16
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] A curious leak ….
 
Hi Ian,
You mentioned that water was in the bilge on the aft side of the table.  I am not on my SM but I think on the inside wall of that locker is a vent of some sort for the water tank.  There is a stopper and I think you can close it.  I discovered it after I had filled the water tank very full.  I will be aboard on the 29th and can send you a photo but take a look.  It would be on a vertical surface inside that aft salon table locker as I recall.  Lavrion, eh?....I'll take a glass of Retsina.   We were bout 5 miles away "as the crow flies" anchored in Souno  --  https://www.dropbox.com/sc/qh4ejqpfa9pz5pj/AACdVX8Jr3qb8XIO5G7ktk3Na    Cheers.
Bob and Suzanne   KAIMI SM429


ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@hotmail.com>
 

 Hi Mark,

Not yet ! We did overfill the tank yesterday while making water but not a drop in any bilge.

I'm sticking with my malevolent goblin theory.

 Ian and Judy, Pen Azen, SM 302, Leros.

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Mark Erdos <mcerdos@...>
Sent: 18 September 2022 02:00
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] A curious leak ….
 
Did you find it?

Mark