Air con circulating pump


Nick Newington
 

I bought a Dormaire magnetic aircon circulating pump rated 950gph to replace the old. Euro 264.
It pumps plenty of water to run all three units but is very small, about 10cm long by about 7cm wide and very light. I suspect it will not last very long but we shall see.
It is also a DC motor so there is a 240v-24v power supply that comes with it.
It replaces the Calpeda monster that needed a screw driver on the shaft to get it going and it leaked. It’s bronze impeller has warn down, I think not from corrosion but from abrasion. On board was the kit to replace the shaft seal.
I plan to buy a new impeller and then swap back when the Dormaire dies.
For now it looks like the Dormaire is great; lighter, quieter,more efficient. No seals.

Nick
S/A Amelia
AML 54-019
Patmos


 

Nick,

If you cruise in the tropics, that will not be enough water flow.

From my Amel Book:
"The basic rule of thumb is 1 gallon per minute (GPM) is required for every 4,000 Btu’s of capacity. So, 9,000 * 3 = 27,000/4,000= 6.75gal/min * 3.785=25.55liters/min * 60 = 1,532 liters/hour OR, 6,75GPM * 60 = 405GPH. 

The original 53 & 54 pump, the Climma BCM20 is rated at 1200+ gal/hr (GPH), which is three times what it should be rated at using the "rule of thumb." However, as you know, when all 3 A/Cs are running, the salon gets its required saltwater from the output of the aft AC, which has been heated because of heat transfer. And the
fore AC gets its required saltwater from the output of the aft AC and the salon AC, which has been heated because of heat transfer. I really do not know how to take all of that "pre-heated" water into account.

Veco (Climma) uses Calpeda pumps and brands them with the Climma brand. When they do this, they assign a Climma number. The Calpeda number is BCM20/E for the original AC saltwater pump. Calpeda no longer offers a BCM20/E, they currently offer a Calpeda BCM22/1/A-R and it is 50/60Hz. It moves 1,700GPH. And even better is the Gianneschi 01CB22G302 with a 95MM Impeller. It pumps 1841 GPH and is 230VAC 50/60htz."

The thing that ruins all required flow calculations is that the ACs on SMs and 54s are connected to the saltwater line in series.

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Mon, Jun 21, 2021 at 1:10 AM ngtnewington Newington via groups.io <ngtnewington=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
I bought a Dormaire magnetic aircon circulating pump rated 950gph to replace the old. Euro 264.
It pumps plenty of water to run all three units but is very small, about 10cm long by about 7cm wide and very light.  I suspect it will not last very long but we shall see.
It is also a DC motor so there is a 240v-24v power supply that comes with it.
It replaces the Calpeda monster that needed a screw driver on the shaft to get it going and it leaked. It’s bronze impeller has warn down, I think not from corrosion but from abrasion. On board was the kit to replace the shaft seal.
I plan to buy a new impeller and then swap back when the Dormaire dies.
For now it looks like the Dormaire is great; lighter, quieter,more efficient. No seals.

Nick
S/A Amelia
AML 54-019
Patmos






Bryce Procter
 

Hi Nick,
I replaced mine with a March magnetic drive two years ago and it has been going faultlessly since. As with yours it is much smaller and extremely quiet. I have been moored in Malaysia and it runs almost 20 hours a day without issue. Cost from memory was about 600 AUD. If interested I can send you a pic and model number.

Cheers

Bryce Procter
Seamaster II
SM 2000 #467


Alan Leslie
 

We did the same, our mag drive pump is rated at some 800 gph and it works fine....it's much smaller, quieter, no more screwdriver tricks to get things going, no leaks and no connection between AC ground and Amel bonding.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


heinz@quetzal.berlin
 

Allo I would like to have the pic and the model nr. 
Cheers Heinz, Sv quetzal,  sm2000, 292



Am 22.06.2021 um 01:34 schrieb Bryce Procter via groups.io <Balibryce@...>:

Hi Nick,
I replaced mine with a March magnetic drive two years ago and it has been going faultlessly since. As with yours it is much smaller and extremely quiet. I have been moored in Malaysia and it runs almost 20 hours a day without issue. Cost from memory was about 600 AUD. If interested I can send you a pic and model number.

Cheers

Bryce Procter
Seamaster II
SM 2000 #467

--
Hello 
Since yesterday when I tried to park in a box in a marina in Auckland my bow thruster motor failed. 
If I turn the beam to the left or right the whole power supply breaks down for a moment. After that the power is back. 
I took the rudder off and it can be turned perfectly by hand. 
But the same happens with the engine. No power for a few seconds, all instruments off, no rotation of the motor. 
Does anyone know this problem. 
Does anyone know how I can find out if it's the motor or maybe a relay that doesn't work. 
Can I test the motor without a relay, maybe on the 4 cables marked D1, D2, and A1, A2?
I am grateful for a quick answer.
Heinz SY Quetzal, SM 2000, 292


Stefan Schaufert
 

Dear Nick,

is your Dormaire pump still working (fine)?

Best regards
Stefan
A54 #119 Lady Charlyette, currently La Palma - Canaries


Nick Newington
 

Hi Stephan, yes it is but it is weird, I thought it was a 240v pump but actually it is 24v and they provide a power adapter that converts 240v ac to 24v so I put the power pack in a box. The power pack overheated. So I opened the box and it worked fine after that. 
This summer it was very hot and the sea water was 28 degrees in Volos Greece. Ran three aircon units fine all day…not sure that the power supply thing is ideal….a bit Mickey Mouse.

Nick 
Amelia 
AML54-019 
Leros Gr


On 2 Oct 2021, at 18:46, Stefan Schaufert <mail@...> wrote:

Dear Nick,

is your Dormaire pump still working (fine)?

Best regards
Stefan
A54 #119 Lady Charlyette, currently La Palma - Canaries


Stefan Schaufert
 

Dear Nick,

thx a lot for your fast response.

To the forum:
Does anyone else use Domaire pumps?
If so, how satisfied are you?

Best regards
Stefan
A54 #119 Lady Charlyette, currently La Palma - Canaries


Scott SV Tengah
 

Nick 

Did you ever consider using a relay and running the pump off your 24v system? That is assuming it can handle 26-28v.

Presumably when you're running AC you're either plugged in, so your chargers are on or if you're running on inverter, it is, if anything, more efficient to run directly off the batteries vs. through the inverter.

Just a thought.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Stefan Schaufert
 

Dear Scott,

would it be no problem switching the 24V DC with 240V AC by a relay?
I am not sure about that, but I decided against this idea.
Some research in the web told me, even a solid state relay (usually only available for AC-AC if you need it for 240V to 24V)) only switch it on, but not off again, even if I did not understand that ;-(.
But I am not an electric engineer and have to believe what I find for this issue.
What would your solution look like for that?

Best regards
Stefan
A54 #119 Lady Charlyette, currently La Palma - Canaries


Nicolas Klene
 

Hi Stefan

I am installing the same pump as you  with that “box” as a 220v/24v transformer which I find flimsy! 
If Scott can tell us a way to connect it to the 24v with a relay , I would be very interested !!
Thanks in advance Scott .
Nicolas 
SV DarNico
Amel 53 #471

Le 7 oct. 2021 à 15:04, Stefan Schaufert <mail@...> a écrit :

Dear Scott,

would it be no problem switching the 24V DC with 240V AC by a relay?
I am not sure about that, but I decided against this idea.
Some research in the web told me, even a solid state relay (usually only available for AC-AC if you need it for 240V to 24V)) only switch it on, but not off again, even if I did not understand that ;-(.
But I am not an electric engineer and have to believe what I find for this issue.
What would your solution look like for that?

Best regards
Stefan
A54 #119 Lady Charlyette, currently La Palma - Canaries

--
Nicolas Klene
DarNico
SM2K # 471
In Marseille


Scott SV Tengah
 

The engineers in the group or a marine electrician (ha!) will have to give their opinion, but I think all you need a relay that has a coil that is capable of handling 240vac. The relay would be controlled by the 240vac signal that normally would power the pump, but rather than powering the pump, it energizes the relay and connects 24vdc from the batteries to power your 24vdc pump.

 

You’ll have to check, but I presume a relay that can handle 240v in its coil can also handle 24v. Just make sure the contact current capacity is enough for your pump.  

 

The 240v is AC and the 24v is DC, but I’m not sure that makes a difference.

 

From: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of "Nicolas Klene via groups.io" <laixoi@...>
Reply-To: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Date: Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 4:29 PM
To: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Air con circulating pump

 

Hi Stefan

 

I am installing the same pump as you  with that “box” as a 220v/24v transformer which I find flimsy! 

If Scott can tell us a way to connect it to the 24v with a relay , I would be very interested !!

Thanks in advance Scott .

Nicolas 

SV DarNico

Amel 53 #471



Le 7 oct. 2021 à 15:04, Stefan Schaufert <mail@...> a écrit :

Dear Scott,

would it be no problem switching the 24V DC with 240V AC by a relay?
I am not sure about that, but I decided against this idea.
Some research in the web told me, even a solid state relay (usually only available for AC-AC if you need it for 240V to 24V)) only switch it on, but not off again, even if I did not understand that ;-(.
But I am not an electric engineer and have to believe what I find for this issue.
What would your solution look like for that?

Best regards
Stefan
A54 #119 Lady Charlyette, currently La Palma - Canaries


--
Nicolas Klene
DarNico
SM2K # 471
In Marseille


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Brent Cameron
 

It’s not hard to find relays that can be energized by 240VAC signals and that can switch 24VDC devices. You just want to be sure that the switching capacity isn’t exceeded (eg trying to use a 10Amp relay to control a 20Amp motor).  You also need to understand if the circuit is normally open or normally closed (or the relay is energized to close contacts to start/run the motor or vis versa). My guess would be Normally Open which also means the relay can be depowered when not needed and will use no power when the motor isn’t running).   You also want to be sure that the relay can handle the start currents of the motor as they can be considerably higher than the run current.   

Brent

On Oct 7, 2021, 1:41 PM -0400, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...>, wrote:

The engineers in the group or a marine electrician (ha!) will have to give their opinion, but I think all you need a relay that has a coil that is capable of handling 240vac. The relay would be controlled by the 240vac signal that normally would power the pump, but rather than powering the pump, it energizes the relay and connects 24vdc from the batteries to power your 24vdc pump.

 

You’ll have to check, but I presume a relay that can handle 240v in its coil can also handle 24v. Just make sure the contact current capacity is enough for your pump.  

 

The 240v is AC and the 24v is DC, but I’m not sure that makes a difference.

 

From: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of "Nicolas Klene via groups.io" <laixoi@...>
Reply-To: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Date: Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 4:29 PM
To: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Air con circulating pump

 

Hi Stefan

 

I am installing the same pump as you  with that “box” as a 220v/24v transformer which I find flimsy! 

If Scott can tell us a way to connect it to the 24v with a relay , I would be very interested !!

Thanks in advance Scott .

Nicolas 

SV DarNico

Amel 53 #471



Le 7 oct. 2021 à 15:04, Stefan Schaufert <mail@...> a écrit :

Dear Scott,

would it be no problem switching the 24V DC with 240V AC by a relay?
I am not sure about that, but I decided against this idea.
Some research in the web told me, even a solid state relay (usually only available for AC-AC if you need it for 240V to 24V)) only switch it on, but not off again, even if I did not understand that ;-(.
But I am not an electric engineer and have to believe what I find for this issue.
What would your solution look like for that?

Best regards
Stefan
A54 #119 Lady Charlyette, currently La Palma - Canaries


--
Nicolas Klene
DarNico
SM2K # 471
In Marseille


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

--
Brent Cameron

Future Amel Owner & Amel Owner Registry Moderator

Oro-Medonte, Ontario, Canada


Stefan Schaufert
 

Thanks to Brent and Scott.  
I will try a "common" 230V relay (not a solid state relay) - like on the pictures.  
It will take some time until I get and give you the result, because I have not yet replaced the pump ;-).

Best regards
Stefan
A54 #119 Lady Charlyette, currently La Palma - Canaries