Amel lost its mast - D1?


Scott SV Tengah
 

An Amel 50 recently lost its mast. It seems it broke around 5m above deck level. The boat only had about 6000 nm on it.

https://www.familyontheboat.com/blog/broken-mast

Luckily I have no experience with broken masts but am curious what failed component would likely cause this to occur?

I know a previous 54 has had issues with their D1 and Amel responded by upsizing it on later builds and many owners (myself included) matched this upgraded spec for the D1 wire.

I know any comments will be speculation as neither the owner nor any of us know the actual cause of the dismasting, but it'd be interesting to hear others' experiences and thoughts on the matter.


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Billy Newport
 

A fitting on the spreader for the D1 apparently. There are replacement kits it seems available from Amel but requires a shop to get it fitted.


Billy Newport
 

https://www.familyontheboat.com/blog/broken-mast


Joan Blaas
 
Edited

I am shivering when reading their story. This is absolutely the last thing you want to happen when sailing with your kids.


Arno Luijten
 

It does beg the question, was it ACMO rigging or not…

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Matt Salatino
 

The final investigative report is in.
The mast failure occurred because of a halyard wrap with the Genoa furler.
This is a known issue on any boat with a powered furler.


Bruno COTTE
 

Not logical 
You have fuse 
And such a problem doesn’t occur when you loose the forestay like this 
I don’t believe this conclusion 

Envoyé de mon iPhone

Le 28 avr. 2022 à 15:42, Matt Salatino via groups.io <helmsmatt@...> a écrit :

The final investigative report is in.
The mast failure occurred because of a halyard wrap with the Genoa furler.
This is a known issue on any boat with a powered furler.


Scott SV Tengah
 

I’m going to agree with Bruno here.

 

This may not be a popular opinion, but Amel is not perfect. I can tell you on my 54, there are definite design faults, directly in contradiction with ISO and ABYC.

I love my boat overall but I will be the first to admit that Amel screws up and while it’s tempting to defend your purchase, when you’re in the middle of the ocean and it’s raging and something breaks, your ego means very little.

 

How many Amels are out there with powered furling headsails? At least 400 SMs and around 200 54s and I don’t know how many 55s and 64s. Has anyone heard of one of these boats losing their mast due to a halyard wrap? Judging from how many damn Amels (ha happy to see you all) are here in French Polynesia, there have been many many sea miles sailed by those 600+ Amels, so I would guess that at least one would have such an issue. Further, how many non-Amel powered furling headsail boats are there out there? Dismasting is a major event and we’d certainly hear about it.

 

It’d be interesting to see the report. Was it done by a disinterested third party?

 

Now for the sake of discussion, let’s assume it was related to a halyard wrap.  I believe I read once that the 50 and 60 don’t come with the halyard swivel “horns”? Further, assuming it was related to a halyard wrap and the design is similar to the previous models, I would hope we can discuss and learn from this event to prevent this from happening to others vs. just blaming user error and moving on.

 

 

From: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Bruno COTTE <cotte.bruno@...>
Reply-To: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Date: Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 4:47 AM
To: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Amel lost its mast - D1?

 

Not logical 

You have fuse 

And such a problem doesn’t occur when you loose the forestay like this 

I don’t believe this conclusion 

Envoyé de mon iPhone



Le 28 avr. 2022 à 15:42, Matt Salatino via groups.io <helmsmatt@...> a écrit :

The final investigative report is in.
The mast failure occurred because of a halyard wrap with the Genoa furler.
This is a known issue on any boat with a powered furler.


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Justin Maguire
 

Scott - I agree! We shouldn’t pretend that Amel is perfect. There are lots of little things that represent interesting or problematic choices.. just as there are on many boats. It’s Also why we se so many good tips about modifications and or upgrades from real world practical experience by owners. 


That said, the 50’s and 60’s are the first boats with a bowsprit that has a furling gennaker / code zero from the factory.. so all previous amel models aren’t apples to apples comparisons. 

I’ve spoken with amel directly in this… 

I’m one of at least five 50’s that I know of that damaged their forestay due to the light wind halyard either not being properly stored (ie. On the starboard side by the shrouds vs. on the bowsprit) or by leaving the halyard tension too slack (either stored on the bowsprit or with the sail up and furled)…

The angle of attack is such that making these mistakes can easily result in a halyard wrap that will damage the forestay. 

Personally I don’t see this as a design flaw per se, but rather operator misuse. In my case, due to covid I never got my handover week in La Rochelle and so the direction regarding how to use this was never received. I do wish this was covered specifically and
With warning in my manual which it isn’t so that’s definitely an area for improvement. 

If you store the halyard on the starboard side when not in use (as directed by Amel) you won’t have an issue. 

And when furling the light wind sail the halyard tension must be full on as directed by amel… this will also remove the issue. 

YMMV

-Justin 


On Apr 28, 2022, at 09:34, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:



I’m going to agree with Bruno here.

 

This may not be a popular opinion, but Amel is not perfect. I can tell you on my 54, there are definite design faults, directly in contradiction with ISO and ABYC.

I love my boat overall but I will be the first to admit that Amel screws up and while it’s tempting to defend your purchase, when you’re in the middle of the ocean and it’s raging and something breaks, your ego means very little.

 

How many Amels are out there with powered furling headsails? At least 400 SMs and around 200 54s and I don’t know how many 55s and 64s. Has anyone heard of one of these boats losing their mast due to a halyard wrap? Judging from how many damn Amels (ha happy to see you all) are here in French Polynesia, there have been many many sea miles sailed by those 600+ Amels, so I would guess that at least one would have such an issue. Further, how many non-Amel powered furling headsail boats are there out there? Dismasting is a major event and we’d certainly hear about it.

 

It’d be interesting to see the report. Was it done by a disinterested third party?

 

Now for the sake of discussion, let’s assume it was related to a halyard wrap.  I believe I read once that the 50 and 60 don’t come with the halyard swivel “horns”? Further, assuming it was related to a halyard wrap and the design is similar to the previous models, I would hope we can discuss and learn from this event to prevent this from happening to others vs. just blaming user error and moving on.

 

 

From: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Bruno COTTE <cotte.bruno@...>
Reply-To: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Date: Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 4:47 AM
To: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Amel lost its mast - D1?

 

Not logical 

You have fuse 

And such a problem doesn’t occur when you loose the forestay like this 

I don’t believe this conclusion 

Envoyé de mon iPhone



Le 28 avr. 2022 à 15:42, Matt Salatino via groups.io <helmsmatt@...> a écrit :

The final investigative report is in.
The mast failure occurred because of a halyard wrap with the Genoa furler.
This is a known issue on any boat with a powered furler.


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


 



It is true that Amel did not modify either the Reckmann or ProFurl swivel to add horns, but in a few halyard wrap situations that I know of, the 10mm horns were bent around the swivel. I have seen this on the SM and 54. 

Damage to the forestay is real with a halyard wrap. It can untwist the forestay, drastically weakening the wire. All Amel installed electric furlers are capable of untwisting the forestay and this will happen with a halyard wrap.

I believe a big contributor to the increased frequency in all Amel models is due to the increase of external halyards at the top of the mast and not enough understanding by the owners. 

My advise:
Be aware of halyard wrap
Don't add too many halyards
When not in use, tightly secure the extra halyards to the rail and for extra security secure them where they are on the aft side of the spreader.




Best,

CW Bill Rouse 
Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html


   


On Thu, Apr 28, 2022, 11:34 Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

I’m going to agree with Bruno here.

 

This may not be a popular opinion, but Amel is not perfect. I can tell you on my 54, there are definite design faults, directly in contradiction with ISO and ABYC.

I love my boat overall but I will be the first to admit that Amel screws up and while it’s tempting to defend your purchase, when you’re in the middle of the ocean and it’s raging and something breaks, your ego means very little.

 

How many Amels are out there with powered furling headsails? At least 400 SMs and around 200 54s and I don’t know how many 55s and 64s. Has anyone heard of one of these boats losing their mast due to a halyard wrap? Judging from how many damn Amels (ha happy to see you all) are here in French Polynesia, there have been many many sea miles sailed by those 600+ Amels, so I would guess that at least one would have such an issue. Further, how many non-Amel powered furling headsail boats are there out there? Dismasting is a major event and we’d certainly hear about it.

 

It’d be interesting to see the report. Was it done by a disinterested third party?

 

Now for the sake of discussion, let’s assume it was related to a halyard wrap.  I believe I read once that the 50 and 60 don’t come with the halyard swivel “horns”? Further, assuming it was related to a halyard wrap and the design is similar to the previous models, I would hope we can discuss and learn from this event to prevent this from happening to others vs. just blaming user error and moving on.

 

 

From: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Bruno COTTE <cotte.bruno@...>
Reply-To: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Date: Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 4:47 AM
To: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Amel lost its mast - D1?

 

Not logical 

You have fuse 

And such a problem doesn’t occur when you loose the forestay like this 

I don’t believe this conclusion 

Envoyé de mon iPhone



Le 28 avr. 2022 à 15:42, Matt Salatino via groups.io <helmsmatt=yahoo.com@groups.io> a écrit :

The final investigative report is in.
The mast failure occurred because of a halyard wrap with the Genoa furler.
This is a known issue on any boat with a powered furler.


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


James Alton
 

Bill,

   Thanks for your post.   I am unclear on how a haylard wrap can apply torque to the forestay? I am pretty sure that all parts of the genoa furling system on my Amel at least are free to rotate on the forestay so wouldn't a haylard wrap result in a torque only in the furling extrusion rather than the forestay?    If I missing something let me know as I would like to understand.    I can see how a haylard wrapping on the small (thereby creating a large force multiplier) extrusion could generate significant tension on the genoa haylard and I believe that on more than one Amel the haylard parted under these conditions.  Has any other Amel lost it's spar due to a haylard wrap that you know of?  

Best,

James Alton
SV Sueno
Maramu #220
Marmaris, Turkey  


-----Original Message-----
From: CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Apr 28, 2022 7:53 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Amel lost its mast - D1?



It is true that Amel did not modify either the Reckmann or ProFurl swivel to add horns, but in a few halyard wrap situations that I know of, the 10mm horns were bent around the swivel. I have seen this on the SM and 54. 

Damage to the forestay is real with a halyard wrap. It can untwist the forestay, drastically weakening the wire. All Amel installed electric furlers are capable of untwisting the forestay and this will happen with a halyard wrap.

I believe a big contributor to the increased frequency in all Amel models is due to the increase of external halyards at the top of the mast and not enough understanding by the owners. 

My advise:
Be aware of halyard wrap
Don't add too many halyards
When not in use, tightly secure the extra halyards to the rail and for extra security secure them where they are on the aft side of the spreader.




Best,

CW Bill Rouse 
Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html


   

On Thu, Apr 28, 2022, 11:34 Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
I’m going to agree with Bruno here.
 
This may not be a popular opinion, but Amel is not perfect. I can tell you on my 54, there are definite design faults, directly in contradiction with ISO and ABYC.
I love my boat overall but I will be the first to admit that Amel screws up and while it’s tempting to defend your purchase, when you’re in the middle of the ocean and it’s raging and something breaks, your ego means very little.
 
How many Amels are out there with powered furling headsails? At least 400 SMs and around 200 54s and I don’t know how many 55s and 64s. Has anyone heard of one of these boats losing their mast due to a halyard wrap? Judging from how many damn Amels (ha happy to see you all) are here in French Polynesia, there have been many many sea miles sailed by those 600+ Amels, so I would guess that at least one would have such an issue. Further, how many non-Amel powered furling headsail boats are there out there? Dismasting is a major event and we’d certainly hear about it.
 
It’d be interesting to see the report. Was it done by a disinterested third party?
 
Now for the sake of discussion, let’s assume it was related to a halyard wrap.  I believe I read once that the 50 and 60 don’t come with the halyard swivel “horns”? Further, assuming it was related to a halyard wrap and the design is similar to the previous models, I would hope we can discuss and learn from this event to prevent this from happening to others vs. just blaming user error and moving on.
 
 
From: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Bruno COTTE <cotte.bruno@...>
Reply-To: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Date: Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 4:47 AM
To: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Amel lost its mast - D1?
 
Not logical 
You have fuse 
And such a problem doesn’t occur when you loose the forestay like this 
I don’t believe this conclusion 
Envoyé de mon iPhone


Le 28 avr. 2022 à 15:42, Matt Salatino via groups.io <helmsmatt=yahoo.com@groups.io> a écrit :
The final investigative report is in.
The mast failure occurred because of a halyard wrap with the Genoa furler.
This is a known issue on any boat with a powered furler.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Scott SV Tengah
 

On our 54, we've used the gennaker, code 0 and Parasailor for thousands of miles. It attaches to the end of the bow roller and being non-factory, is probably more prone to issues. In our laziness, we've sometimes left it up, furled, and used the Genoa. I have never gotten even close to wrapping, so I don't buy the conclusion that a factory designed and installed option increases wrap rates. And if it does, Amel should retrofit it.

As Bill stated, he's seen halyard wraps twist the 10mm "horns" around the swivel. Bill - does that mean they are potentially protective and/or sacrificial?

We have two extra halyards permanently stored off the main, near the Genoa halyard and have not had any issues. But I am human and expect that it will happen at some point, probably in a 50 knot rainless squall that didn't show up on radar. Are there 40 A50s out there? It seems 5/40 = 12% of their sister ships having a potentially catastrophic failure is higher than should be accepted as "user error" and demands a fix.

It'll be interesting to see what Amel does to correct this. They already got a pie in the face since they highlighted this family on social media and of course, a Grand Large Rally participant here in French Polynesia, (this boat was allowed in the GL Rally despite not being a Grand Large boat), was well aware of the Amel that lost its mast island hopping in 15 knots. Another lost mast would be a "Polina Star III" level event, in my opinion. Not good for owners of any Amel, 50 or otherwise.




On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 12:51 PM, Justin Maguire wrote:
That said, the 50’s and 60’s are the first boats with a bowsprit that has a furling gennaker / code zero from the factory.. so all previous amel models aren’t apples to apples comparisons. 
 
I’ve spoken with amel directly in this… 
 
I’m one of at least five 50’s that I know of that damaged their forestay due to the light wind halyard either not being properly stored (ie. On the starboard side by the shrouds vs. on the bowsprit) or by leaving the halyard tension too slack (either stored on the bowsprit or with the sail up and furled)…
 
 


 

James,

To explain:

When a halyard gets caught around the furling swivel, the swivel spins the halyard around the foil and usually eventually the rigging wire. If the end of the halyard is secured, these halyard wraps around the wire can get as tight as vice grips on the wire. With the swage fitting stationary, this twisting force will untwist the wire at the swage. Untwisted rigging wire loses all of its strength. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse 
Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html


   

On Thu, Apr 28, 2022, 13:42 Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
On our 54, we've used the gennaker, code 0 and Parasailor for thousands of miles. It attaches to the end of the bow roller and being non-factory, is probably more prone to issues. In our laziness, we've sometimes left it up, furled, and used the Genoa. I have never gotten even close to wrapping, so I don't buy the conclusion that a factory designed and installed option increases wrap rates. And if it does, Amel should retrofit it.

As Bill stated, he's seen halyard wraps twist the 10mm "horns" around the swivel. Bill - does that mean they are potentially protective and/or sacrificial?

We have two extra halyards permanently stored off the main, near the Genoa halyard and have not had any issues. But I am human and expect that it will happen at some point, probably in a 50 knot rainless squall that didn't show up on radar. Are there 40 A50s out there? It seems 5/40 = 12% of their sister ships having a potentially catastrophic failure is higher than should be accepted as "user error" and demands a fix.

It'll be interesting to see what Amel does to correct this. They already got a pie in the face since they highlighted this family on social media and of course, a Grand Large Rally participant here in French Polynesia, (this boat was allowed in the GL Rally despite not being a Grand Large boat), was well aware of the Amel that lost its mast island hopping in 15 knots. Another lost mast would be a "Polina Star III" level event, in my opinion. Not good for owners of any Amel, 50 or otherwise.




On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 12:51 PM, Justin Maguire wrote:
That said, the 50’s and 60’s are the first boats with a bowsprit that has a furling gennaker / code zero from the factory.. so all previous amel models aren’t apples to apples comparisons. 
 
I’ve spoken with amel directly in this… 
 
I’m one of at least five 50’s that I know of that damaged their forestay due to the light wind halyard either not being properly stored (ie. On the starboard side by the shrouds vs. on the bowsprit) or by leaving the halyard tension too slack (either stored on the bowsprit or with the sail up and furled)…
 
 


Alan Leslie
 

The previous owner of Elyse bent a few of those horns, I still have them.
In the 9 years we have owned Elyse we have never had a halyard wrap issue.
We have a spinnaker/gennaker halyard which we use with our gennaker.
It is always stored like this



with chafe protection on the upper shroud, it's tied tightly to the stbd rail aft of the mast.
It does get loose occasionally and needs to be tightened.
This is simple to keep an eye on.
Our Amel has a little notice next to the FOC (genoa) furling switch which says
"Attention aux drisses" meaning look out for the halyards, to avoid halyard wraps.
These are seamanship issues not design issues.

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Justin Maguire
 

The angle is much more open in a SM than on the 50

image


On Apr 28, 2022, at 15:44, Alan Leslie <s.v.elyse@...> wrote:

The previous owner of Elyse bent a few of those horns, I still have them.
In the 9 years we have owned Elyse we have never had a halyard wrap issue.
We have a spinnaker/gennaker halyard which we use with our gennaker.
It is always stored like this

PIC_0819.JPG

with chafe protection on the upper shroud, it's tied tightly to the stbd rail aft of the mast.
It does get loose occasionally and needs to be tightened.
This is simple to keep an eye on.
Our Amel has a little notice next to the FOC (genoa) furling switch which says
"Attention aux drisses" meaning look out for the halyards, to avoid halyard wraps.
These are seamanship issues not design issues.

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Justin Maguire
 

This was the damage to mine when I replaced it…

image


On Apr 28, 2022, at 16:53, Justin Maguire <Justin_Maguire@...> wrote:

 The angle is much more open in a SM than on the 50

image.png


On Apr 28, 2022, at 15:44, Alan Leslie <s.v.elyse@...> wrote:

The previous owner of Elyse bent a few of those horns, I still have them.
In the 9 years we have owned Elyse we have never had a halyard wrap issue.
We have a spinnaker/gennaker halyard which we use with our gennaker.
It is always stored like this

PIC_0819.JPG

with chafe protection on the upper shroud, it's tied tightly to the stbd rail aft of the mast.
It does get loose occasionally and needs to be tightened.
This is simple to keep an eye on.
Our Amel has a little notice next to the FOC (genoa) furling switch which says
"Attention aux drisses" meaning look out for the halyards, to avoid halyard wraps.
These are seamanship issues not design issues.

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Sv Garulfo
 


There is no device to open the angle between the genoa halyard and the forestay ?

Maybe it’s not necessary with the furler (profurl or facnor, i can’t remember), but on my (retrofitted) Reckmann, it’s specifically said there should be a 10°+ angle between the forestay and its halyard. 

Also, the Reckmann has a built-in resetable fuse that trips whenever it struggles with something. Admittedly resetting it requires a trip to the fore locker, which is annoying at best but that teaches you to be gentle with the system (and keep your halyards out of the way).


Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Tahiti 




On 28 Apr 2022, at 13:52, Justin Maguire <justin_maguire@...> wrote:

The angle is much more open in a SM than on the 50




On Apr 28, 2022, at 15:44, Alan Leslie <s.v.elyse@...> wrote:

The previous owner of Elyse bent a few of those horns, I still have them.
In the 9 years we have owned Elyse we have never had a halyard wrap issue.
We have a spinnaker/gennaker halyard which we use with our gennaker.
It is always stored like this



with chafe protection on the upper shroud, it's tied tightly to the stbd rail aft of the mast.
It does get loose occasionally and needs to be tightened.
This is simple to keep an eye on.
Our Amel has a little notice next to the FOC (genoa) furling switch which says
"Attention aux drisses" meaning look out for the halyards, to avoid halyard wraps.
These are seamanship issues not design issues.

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Alan Leslie
 

Sorry Justin, I don't understand what you mean by "more open".
When I look at your photo, that halyard on the block is exactly what I'm talking about.
If it's stowed the way it is in your photo, that is asking for problems.
In my opinion both lines should be taken over the spreader and secured aft of the mast the same as our photo.
You don't want halyards anywhere near the genoa forestay when furling the genoa.
The actual genoa halyard looks a bit sus to me too...it's too close to the rotating parts of the genoa furler.
That could cause problems if it wasn't bar tight....,is it actually the genoa halyard that caused your issue?
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437 


James Alton
 

Bill,

   Thanks for your response and explanation of the potential problem.  I can see how if the haylard were to wrap on to the wire and be secured at the lower end that a lot of force could be applied to the wire.  I also found plenty of examples of forestays that failed on non Amel boats from the twisting that you described so this is a definite concern.    Thankfully no halyard wraps on Sueno so far.   On our boat only a few inches of the forestay wire is exposed below the swage fitting.  The short gap is there I believe to allow easy access to the forestay turnbuckle at the bottom and for servicing.  I am wondering about having a custom pc. of aluminum made up which would attach to the top of our Genoa extrusion and extend up onto the headstay swage fitting.  I think that this could prevent a haylard from ever wrapping anywhere on to the headstay wire itself.  The custom aluminum extrusion would need to be removed via bosun's chair to allow the system to be raised to adjust the turnbuckle etc. but that doesn't happen often.  I would gladly trade an occasional trip up the mast to remove the genoa extrusion extension for a reduction in the risk of headstay damage.  Recognizing that changes are seldom a good idea with an Amel, any thoughts on whether this might be a good or bad idea?

Best,

James Alton
SV Sueno
Marmau #220


-----Original Message-----
From: CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Apr 28, 2022 11:25 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Amel lost its mast - D1?

James,

To explain:

When a halyard gets caught around the furling swivel, the swivel spins the halyard around the foil and usually eventually the rigging wire. If the end of the halyard is secured, these halyard wraps around the wire can get as tight as vice grips on the wire. With the swage fitting stationary, this twisting force will untwist the wire at the swage. Untwisted rigging wire loses all of its strength. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse 
Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html


   

On Thu, Apr 28, 2022, 13:42 Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
On our 54, we've used the gennaker, code 0 and Parasailor for thousands of miles. It attaches to the end of the bow roller and being non-factory, is probably more prone to issues. In our laziness, we've sometimes left it up, furled, and used the Genoa. I have never gotten even close to wrapping, so I don't buy the conclusion that a factory designed and installed option increases wrap rates. And if it does, Amel should retrofit it.

As Bill stated, he's seen halyard wraps twist the 10mm "horns" around the swivel. Bill - does that mean they are potentially protective and/or sacrificial?

We have two extra halyards permanently stored off the main, near the Genoa halyard and have not had any issues. But I am human and expect that it will happen at some point, probably in a 50 knot rainless squall that didn't show up on radar. Are there 40 A50s out there? It seems 5/40 = 12% of their sister ships having a potentially catastrophic failure is higher than should be accepted as "user error" and demands a fix.

It'll be interesting to see what Amel does to correct this. They already got a pie in the face since they highlighted this family on social media and of course, a Grand Large Rally participant here in French Polynesia, (this boat was allowed in the GL Rally despite not being a Grand Large boat), was well aware of the Amel that lost its mast island hopping in 15 knots. Another lost mast would be a "Polina Star III" level event, in my opinion. Not good for owners of any Amel, 50 or otherwise.




On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 12:51 PM, Justin Maguire wrote:
That said, the 50’s and 60’s are the first boats with a bowsprit that has a furling gennaker / code zero from the factory.. so all previous amel models aren’t apples to apples comparisons. 
 
I’ve spoken with amel directly in this… 
 
I’m one of at least five 50’s that I know of that damaged their forestay due to the light wind halyard either not being properly stored (ie. On the starboard side by the shrouds vs. on the bowsprit) or by leaving the halyard tension too slack (either stored on the bowsprit or with the sail up and furled)…
 
 


Eric Freedman
 

HI Alan,

Do you have photos of how the halyard passes the spreader and how you tie it to the rail?

 

We also had it made long enough to pass it through a very large block and back to the electric winch so we could lift someone up to the top of the maim mast.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of Alan Leslie
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2022 6:44 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Amel lost its mast - D1?

 

The previous owner of Elyse bent a few of those horns, I still have them.
In the 9 years we have owned Elyse we have never had a halyard wrap issue.
We have a spinnaker/gennaker halyard which we use with our gennaker.
It is always stored like this



with chafe protection on the upper shroud, it's tied tightly to the stbd rail aft of the mast.
It does get loose occasionally and needs to be tightened.
This is simple to keep an eye on.
Our Amel has a little notice next to the FOC (genoa) furling switch which says
"Attention aux drisses" meaning look out for the halyards, to avoid halyard wraps.
These are seamanship issues not design issues.

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437