Amel Maramu replacement waterlock


Dirk Hazenoot Maramu Huli 171
 

Good day Amel amigos, we are repowering our Amel Maramu hull 171 with a Beta 60. Now I am planning to install the vetus - Waterlock LSS 50. Is this the best choice or does anyone know a better waterlock for our beta 60? I look forward to your responses. Thank you
https://www.vetus.com/en/exhaust-systems/waterlocks/colector-de-plastico-lss-5951.html


Eric Freedman <kimberlite@...>
 



When I bought Kimberlite from Amel, I noticed the Vetus plastic mufflers. I ordered spares before I left the dock. Sure enough 3 years later we were motor sailing and a crew member said I think there is something wrong in the engine room. There was black smoke coming out of the galley sink.



I opened the hatch and could not see the engine. Just as I turned off the engine the hi temp engine alarm went off. If you look back in the Kimberlite photos you will see the melted Vetus Muffler. I used the cockpit shower to cool down the burning muffler. The raw water pump developed a small air leak and it took a while to set off the engine alarm but melted the muffler. I put in my spare muffler and when I got home I had a marine fabricator make a metal one for me.



I also bought a Borel high temperature alarm. It is simple to install It wraps around the exhaust hose of the engine.



You can boil water in a paper cup as long is there is water in the cup.



Fair Winds,



Eric



SM 376 Kimberlite









------ Original Message ------
From: dekoer@...
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2022 4:26 PM
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Amel Maramu replacement waterlock

Good day Amel amigos, we are repowering our Amel Maramu hull 171 with a Beta 60. Now I am planning to install the vetus - Waterlock LSS 50. Is this the best choice or does anyone know a better waterlock for our beta 60? I look forward to your responses. Thank you
https://www.vetus.com/en/exhaust-systems/waterlocks/colector-de-plastico-lss-5951.html



JB Duler
 

Dirk,

Last year the yard in Port Napoleon changed the hoses for our Yanmar. We never asked for that.

In doing so they  cut the hose of the vent loop with a 45 degree angle and put one clamp instead of two. The hose was disconnected after 15 hours of motoring simply because the clamp was not gripping and was not tight enough.

The vetus waterlock melted very quickly simply because the water was not flowing through the exhaust anymore, but directly in the bilge.
I found a Vetus as a temporay repair but I need to find a SS one ASAP.

Result: expensive mess.


--
John Bernard "JB" Duler
San Francisco
Meltem # 19, Western Med


Ian Park
 

I have one on my Santorin. No issues. When clearing out weed from the raw water strainer I forgot to open the seacock again. But I had fitted an inexpensive high temperature alarm to the exhaust pipe just below the exhaust elbow. I stopped the engine immediately to open the seacock. It saved me unknown damage. I believe Bill Rouse posted a recommendation about these a couple of years ago. The issue isn’t about the material the water lock is made from it’s about early prevention of an overheating engine.

Ian

Ocean Hobo SN96


Dirk Hazenoot Maramu Huli 171
 

Amel friends you have rightly scared me. There will be no Waterlock LSS 50 on our boat. Now I'm looking further because we need a new waterlock our original Amel waterlock has rotted through. I see that Vetus also sells a VETUS HD WATERLOCK / SILENCER TYPE NLP, 50 MM, 10 LITER, BLACK this is resistant to high temperatures. Now I just don't know if a waterlock with a two-chamber construction is suitable for sailing yachts due to leaning. And I also wonder if 10 liters is not too big. Or does a large volume not matter with a two-chamber waterlock. I hope someone can tell me more about this. I would also like to thank Eric and John for their response.
 
PS: John is your boat still in Port Napoleon? We are on dry land in Port Napoleon. We are refurbishing our Maramu for our world trip. New engine, new rigging, electrics, paint system. If you are in the area, I would like to meet you and share experiences.

https://www.vetus.com/en/exhaust-systems/heavy-duty-waterlocks/vetus-hd-waterlock-muffler-type-nlp-50-mm-10-litres-black.html


Alan Leslie
 

I agree with that absolutely....if you overheat the engine for whatever reason, it will have enormous consequences.
No manufacturer can guard against that kind of issue.
So, if you had a SS waterlock that wouldn't melt from high temperatures, there would be no sign of trouble and then your engine would be f....ed.
So, you add temp monitors to alarm if the temp gets too high....
Why not just do things properly?...like CHECK the seacock is open before you start the engine, maintain everything properly, check all the hose connections regularly, be sure all the water pathways are clean on a regular basis.
Sure, things can go wrong no matter how meticulous you are, BUT at least if you ARE meticulous any issue should be minor and solvable before it turns into a catastrophe.
We have no problems with our Vetus waterlock...18 years on....
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Andy Croney
 

We also have an older Maramu Hull #75 , we have a SS Muffler which has served us well , however the welds started to develop “ pin holes “ creating small leaks - we had the welds redone a couple of years ago and now the problem has started again ..

Now also thinking of replacing with a Vetus Muffler .

Trust the above is good for thought.

Fair winds

Andy

On 27 Jan 2022, at 20:01, digestnoreply@groups.io wrote:


Dirk Hazenoot Maramu Huli 171
 

I made some inquiries with Uship and they indicate that the VETUS HD WATERLOCK / SILENCER TYPE NLP, 50 MM, 10 LITER, BLACK is also suitable for sailing boats. I think I'll go for this waterlock/muffler. Nicely round in shape and I can place it nicely in the corner low in the engine compartment. I'm still unsure about the big one, but I think it's better to be a little too big than the 4.5 liter, which might be a little too small.


JB Duler
 

Dirk, I am in California right now. Send me an email at jbduler at yahoo dot com
We can do a facetime/zoom/whatsapp and we can chat
Best
JB
--
John Bernard "JB" Duler
San Francisco
Meltem # 19, Western Med


Gerhard Mueller
 

I don't have a better photo and this one is even not from my Sharki but it shows the same stainless steal waterlock I have. I guess it is 40 years old now and still in good conditions. Obviously it was an original part from Amel.



I would not recommend a piece of plastic.
--
Gerhard Mueller
Amel Sharki #60
Currently North Sea, Germany


Giorgio Ardrizzi
 

Hi everyone
In my Sharki the Amel's original waterlock was corroded after 27 years and was no longer compatible with the new 54 hp Yanmar engine.  I had one custom built in 316 s/s, but after a few years it started to corrode again.
After repairing it several times, last year I decided to order a custom one in epoxi and it works perfectly.  Alizée Composit built it for me in Le Marin, Martinique and it cost 500 euros.
No Vetus models available in Martinique fit my engine due to lack of space between the bottom and the riser.


-------------------------
Giorgio Ardrizzi
sy Saudade III - Amel Sharki #1 1980


   


James Alton
 

Hello everyone, 
   I think that the custom fiberglass aqualift muffler is an excellent solution and when my original muffler goes it will be replaced with fiberglass. I have yet to see a fiberglass muffler  fail and have installed and built quite a few.  I think it is important to note that most epoxies have a  much lower heat tolerance than the Polyesters so keep that in mind in the selection of the resin.  Most of the commercially available fiberglass mufflers are polyester and also use a fire retardent resin that will self extinguish itself.  I am not too sure how critical the fire retardent resins/additives are since the exhaust hose would probably burn off before the muffler could get hot enough to burn so make your own decision .  The heating issue only becomes a concern of corse if there is an extended period where cooling water is lost. 

Best, 
James Alton
SV Sueno
Maramu #220


On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 at 0:15, Giorgio Ardrizzi
<giorgio.ardrizzi@...> wrote:
Hi everyone
In my Sharki the Amel's original waterlock was corroded after 27 years and was no longer compatible with the new 54 hp Yanmar engine.  I had one custom built in 316 s/s, but after a few years it started to corrode again.
After repairing it several times, last year I decided to order a custom one in epoxi and it works perfectly.  Alizée Composit built it for me in Le Marin, Martinique and it cost 500 euros.
No Vetus models available in Martinique fit my engine due to lack of space between the bottom and the riser.


-------------------------
Giorgio Ardrizzi
sy Saudade III - Amel Sharki #1 1980


   


Richard May
 

I replaced the muffler recently after it melted down.  Exhaust coming up from engine room first looked like it was coming from over the side.
Upshot was that the raw water pump impeller cover had burn signature on it AND the "valley" where the o-ring resides for the cover of the impeller had started to deteriorate.  After thoroughly investigating the entire system for blockage, it is my opinion that air was getting in the impeller and causing it to loose prime or just not get the volume through that was required.  I did have the high temp alarm activate about the time I found the melted muffler.  Also, the exhaust hose between the turbo and the muffler had de-laminated at the sharp bend down by the muffler.












--
Richard May
SM 477 Avogato


Richard May
 

At the risk of thread drift, here is what the melt looked like in place.  See the hard turn of the exhaust hose.  When I got the new hose, heated it and bent it, I could hear crackling on the inside as it began to come apart from the bending.  I am considering an adapter.  OR, a very stiff support in the style of this:



--
Richard May
SM 477 Avogato


James Alton
 

Richard,

   The exhaust hose can easily handle the normal exhaust temperatures with cooling water flowing through.  But when the flow of cooling water is eliminated the temperatures rise considerably.  Your issue it seems to me is with the loss of cooling, not the exhaust hose.  

James Alton
SV Sueno
Maramu #220


-----Original Message-----
From: Richard May via groups.io <airwisrich2000@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Sun, Jan 30, 2022 3:35 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Amel Maramu replacement waterlock

At the risk of thread drift, here is what the melt looked like in place.  See the hard turn of the exhaust hose.  When I got the new hose, heated it and bent it, I could hear crackling on the inside as it began to come apart from the bending.  I am considering an adapter.  OR, a very stiff support in the style of this:



--
Richard May
SM 477 Avogato


Bill Kinney
 
Edited

Richard,

I believe what you are using there is 3" Trident FLEX wet exhaust hose. That hose is rated for a minimum bend radius of 9 inches, which  looks like a MUCH more gentle bend than you are trying to force it into. (See specifications here:  https://tridentmarine.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/250-Specifications-Sheet.pdf) This hose can not be heated to reduce its bend radius below the specified value.  Under enough heat to significantly soften the rubber, this hose will come apart--as you are finding.

You can either use a much more expensive silicone rubber hose with a significantly lower specified minimum bend radius, OR a fiberglass adapter elbow to make the bend.   My understanding (possibly wrong) was that on boats with your engine installation the Vetus LSG was the muffler that Amel used, yet the picture of your failed muffled does not look like that model?  The Vetus LSG has a rotating elbow on the exhaust inlet, which might make your hose routing a lot easier.

Also, if you are having trouble with air getting sucked into the engine cooling water circuit, suspect backflow through the air conditioning circuit.  If there is no functioning check valve in the system, enough air can get pulled in to prevent the low pressure alarm from actuating even if the inlet is totally blocked. It can certainly reduce cooling water flow in the engine enough to cause this problem.  Without the low pressure alarm going off, the only other OEM alarm is the high engine temperature.  By the time the engine temperature reaches the alarm, the exhaust system has been destroyed, as you have found.

With a plastic muffler, an exhaust temperature alarm to alert you too low raw cooling water flow is vital.  Borel or Aqualarm make units that work.

I'd add to that: A metal muffler does NOT make this problem very much less serious.  You might not destroy the muffler, but without sufficient raw water flow you can certainly destroy all the rubber hoses from the engine to the hull exhaust.  I doubt that very many of us carry a complete set of spares for all that length of large diameter hose!  A high exhaust temperature alarm is a really, really, good idea for any boat with a wet exhaust.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Hollywood, FL, USA


Richard May
 

Bill,
Interesting intel on the muffler.  Thank you.  The muffler I have also does not have a backflow preventer in it like the LSG models do.  Are there ever issues with seawater coming backwards in the systems?
--
Richard May
SM 477 Avogato


JB Duler
 

Richard, it may be simply catastrophic. Amel owners have lost their engine over saltwater back in the engine, especially during long downwind runs
--
John Bernard "JB" Duler
San Francisco
Meltem # 19, Western Med