Topics

Amel's suggestion to run the Volvo D3-110 (A54) daily while on passage

Mike Longcor (SV Trilogy)
 

Hi Alex,

My understanding of the anti-siphon on the raw water line (between the exit from heat exchanger and input to exhaust elbow), is to prevent continuous water flow (after engine shutdown) through the intake line should something in the line break/leak/disconnect/etc. The design of most raw water pumps prevents this continuous flow as long as the vanes of the impeller are intact. The flow of water out of the anti-siphon while the engine is running provides a good visual check that 1. your anti-siphon is working and not clogged and 2. that your engine is getting a good supply of raw water for cooling. I'm not sure I follow Oliver's comment about water standing above the engine for long periods because I'm pretty sure the water would find it's way down to the muffler with or without a siphon break at the top. Again, this assumes your raw water pump/impeller is fully functional, and those certainly fail from time to time. So a working anti-siphon is a good way to ensure your engine doesn't flood and/or your boat doesn't sink.

I may be wrong on some of this so if anyone has any other input please share.

Also... I'm still searching for any information on the rubber anti-return flap at the end of the exhaust line near the through hull. Has anyone bought, replaced, or fabricated something like this for their Amel?

Regards,
Mike
SV Trilogy - SM23
Opua, NZ

 

Mike

I'll send you something directly that will probably help.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Amel Owners Yacht School - www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970


On Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 2:16 PM Mike Longcor (SV Trilogy) <svtrilogy53@...> wrote:
Hi Alex,

My understanding of the anti-siphon on the raw water line (between the exit from heat exchanger and input to exhaust elbow), is to prevent continuous water flow (after engine shutdown) through the intake line should something in the line break/leak/disconnect/etc. The design of most raw water pumps prevents this continuous flow as long as the vanes of the impeller are intact. The flow of water out of the anti-siphon while the engine is running provides a good visual check that 1. your anti-siphon is working and not clogged and 2. that your engine is getting a good supply of raw water for cooling. I'm not sure I follow Oliver's comment about water standing above the engine for long periods because I'm pretty sure the water would find it's way down to the muffler with or without a siphon break at the top. Again, this assumes your raw water pump/impeller is fully functional, and those certainly fail from time to time. So a working anti-siphon is a good way to ensure your engine doesn't flood and/or your boat doesn't sink.

I may be wrong on some of this so if anyone has any other input please share.

Also... I'm still searching for any information on the rubber anti-return flap at the end of the exhaust line near the through hull. Has anyone bought, replaced, or fabricated something like this for their Amel?

Regards,
Mike
SV Trilogy - SM23
Opua, NZ

 

Mike,

You wrote: Hi Bill - do you mean that last section of exhaust looks modified/non-Amel or just generally speaking?
The answers to your questions are yes & yes.

See the attached as it may help you. Your SM, when new, probably had the plastic Vetus water muffler, not a stainless steel muffler. I assume there are previous owner modifications.




--
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   
View My Training Calendar

On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 2:45 PM CW Bill Rouse via Groups.Io <brouse=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Mike

I'll send you something directly that will probably help.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Amel Owners Yacht School - www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 2:16 PM Mike Longcor (SV Trilogy) <svtrilogy53@...> wrote:
Hi Alex,

My understanding of the anti-siphon on the raw water line (between the exit from heat exchanger and input to exhaust elbow), is to prevent continuous water flow (after engine shutdown) through the intake line should something in the line break/leak/disconnect/etc. The design of most raw water pumps prevents this continuous flow as long as the vanes of the impeller are intact. The flow of water out of the anti-siphon while the engine is running provides a good visual check that 1. your anti-siphon is working and not clogged and 2. that your engine is getting a good supply of raw water for cooling. I'm not sure I follow Oliver's comment about water standing above the engine for long periods because I'm pretty sure the water would find it's way down to the muffler with or without a siphon break at the top. Again, this assumes your raw water pump/impeller is fully functional, and those certainly fail from time to time. So a working anti-siphon is a good way to ensure your engine doesn't flood and/or your boat doesn't sink.

I may be wrong on some of this so if anyone has any other input please share.

Also... I'm still searching for any information on the rubber anti-return flap at the end of the exhaust line near the through hull. Has anyone bought, replaced, or fabricated something like this for their Amel?

Regards,
Mike
SV Trilogy - SM23
Opua, NZ

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Bill, all this conversation is moving me to do a first time look at the exhaust flap. I guess the larger stainless tube is separated from  the hull and the exhaust hose to access it, or perhaps the hose can be left in place and the unit flexed back???

I would add a comment regarding the variety of systems being suggested as "improvements" to the exhaust system.

Henri in his inimitable fashion has thought it all through, considered the potential failure of all the alternatives, and decided the most bullet proof system was the start the motor for a few minutes every day rule.

This has the significant added benefit for boats on extended passages of ensuring the engine is in perfect starting order at all times. A spine tingler is to find the motor wont start in an emergency situation. With over 50,000 ocean miles under my belt on Ocean Pearl  I consider it an absolute that the engine and gen set is started daily to ensure all systems are go at all times. It is one of those rules that will keep you alive when you really need it.

So my thoughts: keep or return your system to the Amel standard and follow the advice from Amel

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 29 January 2020 at 09:55 CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

Mike,

You wrote:  Hi Bill - do you mean that last section of exhaust looks modified/non-Amel or just generally speaking?
The answers to your questions are yes & yes.

See the attached as it may help you. Your SM, when new, probably had the plastic Vetus water muffler, not a stainless steel muffler. I assume there are previous owner modifications.


 


--
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
 
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
     
 
View My Training Calendar

On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 2:45 PM CW Bill Rouse via Groups.Io <brouse= gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Mike

I'll send you something directly that will probably help.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Amel Owners Yacht School - www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 2:16 PM Mike Longcor (SV Trilogy) < svtrilogy53@...> wrote:
Hi Alex,

My understanding of the anti-siphon on the raw water line (between the exit from heat exchanger and input to exhaust elbow), is to prevent continuous water flow (after engine shutdown) through the intake line should something in the line break/leak/disconnect/etc. The design of most raw water pumps prevents this continuous flow as long as the vanes of the impeller are intact. The flow of water out of the anti-siphon while the engine is running provides a good visual check that 1. your anti-siphon is working and not clogged and 2. that your engine is getting a good supply of raw water for cooling. I'm not sure I follow Oliver's comment about water standing above the engine for long periods because I'm pretty sure the water would find it's way down to the muffler with or without a siphon break at the top. Again, this assumes your raw water pump/impeller is fully functional, and those certainly fail from time to time. So a working anti-siphon is a good way to ensure your engine doesn't flood and/or your boat doesn't sink.

I may be wrong on some of this so if anyone has any other input please share.

Also... I'm still searching for any information on the rubber anti-return flap at the end of the exhaust line near the through hull. Has anyone bought, replaced, or fabricated something like this for their Amel?

Regards,
Mike
SV Trilogy - SM23
Opua, NZ

 

 

Jamie Wendell
 

Hello Alex, I believe you are referring to my D3-110 failure. When I experienced my water ingest issue, it was after a fairly calm trip up from Florida to the Chesapeake Bay. I ran the engine quite a bit, as I recall the wind was not great, but that was now more than 4 years ago, so I cannot remember all the details of what happened.

I understand exactly what you are suggesting though, in that water could potentially enter into the anti-siphon loop if un-expelled water collected in the cockpit. But I can say for sure in my case, there was no water in the cockpit from waves. And in my situation, I am really certain that water did not get forced into the exhaust loop on a starboard tack. I have seen the flapper that Amel installed first hand, and it looked OK to me (it is really kind of a tube), so again I think my issue was that the engine was not expelling the water through the muffler. I surmise that it was "back-washing" if you will into the exhaust manifold and hence entering the cylinders in spurts - not enough to flood and lock the engine, but enough to seize the valves and kill it once it sat for a week.

Hope that helps.
Jamie
Amel 54 Phantom #44

Dave Robards
 





Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
5. Xq

amelforme
 

All early Super Maramu had metal mufflers, don’t recall the cut off when they switched to plastic. Olivier, do you know when the change was made? Jacques Carteau explained the reason for the change as noise/vibration abatement as the plastic mufflers would ‘pant’/flex and eliminate some noise/vibration where the metal ones wouldn’t. He noted that they wouldn’t corrode either. He didn’t appreciate my saying that they will melt if you lose the raw water pump.

 

If you still have a metal muffler, it’s a good idea to inspect the interior and especially the bottom on a regular basis, at least annually.  When they fail it makes an awful mess of the engine compartment.

       

 

            JOEL F. POTTER-CRUISING YACHT SPECIALIST~L.L.C.

                                           THE  EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY

    UNSURPASSED AMEL MARKETING EXPERIENCE AND PRODUCT KNOWLEDGE

                                   Office 954-462-5869  Cell 954-812-2485

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 3:56 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Amel's suggestion to run the Volvo D3-110 (A54) daily while on passage

 

Mike,

 

You wrote: Hi Bill - do you mean that last section of exhaust looks modified/non-Amel or just generally speaking?

The answers to your questions are yes & yes.

 

See the attached as it may help you. Your SM, when new, probably had the plastic Vetus water muffler, not a stainless steel muffler. I assume there are previous owner modifications.

 

 

 

 

--

Image removed by sender.

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

Image removed by sender. Image removed by sender. Image removed by sender. 

 

View My Training Calendar

Image removed by sender.

 

On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 2:45 PM CW Bill Rouse via Groups.Io <brouse=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Mike

 

I'll send you something directly that will probably help.

 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Amel Owners Yacht School - www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

 

On Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 2:16 PM Mike Longcor (SV Trilogy) <svtrilogy53@...> wrote:

Hi Alex,

My understanding of the anti-siphon on the raw water line (between the exit from heat exchanger and input to exhaust elbow), is to prevent continuous water flow (after engine shutdown) through the intake line should something in the line break/leak/disconnect/etc. The design of most raw water pumps prevents this continuous flow as long as the vanes of the impeller are intact. The flow of water out of the anti-siphon while the engine is running provides a good visual check that 1. your anti-siphon is working and not clogged and 2. that your engine is getting a good supply of raw water for cooling. I'm not sure I follow Oliver's comment about water standing above the engine for long periods because I'm pretty sure the water would find it's way down to the muffler with or without a siphon break at the top. Again, this assumes your raw water pump/impeller is fully functional, and those certainly fail from time to time. So a working anti-siphon is a good way to ensure your engine doesn't flood and/or your boat doesn't sink.

I may be wrong on some of this so if anyone has any other input please share.

Also... I'm still searching for any information on the rubber anti-return flap at the end of the exhaust line near the through hull. Has anyone bought, replaced, or fabricated something like this for their Amel?

Regards,
Mike
SV Trilogy - SM23
Opua, NZ

Mike Longcor (SV Trilogy)
 

Thanks Joel, Bill, and everyone who has offered ideas on this topic. It's all been very helpful as I work toward a solution. I'll be taking a close look inside the injection elbow, stainless muffler, and the cylinder shaped exhaust box near the thru hull. The rubber flap is still somewhat of a mystery... if replacement is recommended, is there a recommended part source (Amel?) and procedure? I'm not so much worried about accessing it but securing it properly. Is one edge of the rubber flap fixed to the inside surface of the box right where the smaller hose comes in? Held in place with just some adhesive/sealant or something more? Or does the flap have a rigid border/frame to it that gets bonded somewhere in the middle of the exhaust box? My rubber flap is not only long gone but that whole cylinder box and reducing coupling is non-original for my boat. I don't want to re-do it the wrong way.

Any advice for getting back to the Amel standard regarding this anti-return flap is still welcomed.

Danny - I think your way of accessing it makes sense. Definitely not the easiest place to access in the engine room (or the hardest!). Also probably best done while dry unless you're floating in a swimming pool.

Regards,
Mike
SV Trilogy - SM23
Opua, NZ

Beaute Olivier
 

Hello Mike,

your SM 23 did not have the rubber flap mounted on a stainless steel cylinder box.
This system came later probably around hull 100.
If your system has not been modified since original, your exhaust through hull system is just a GRP tube bonded to the hull, where the exhaust hose is glued into with silicone filler.

The rubber flap system has been installed on SMs (since hull 100) and on AMEL 54, 55, 64, 50 and 60 (not Santorins).

The plastic mufflers have been installed on SMs with Yanmar engines, all the Perkins and Volvo engines have (originally) stainless steel mufflers.

Mike, if you want to install the rubber flap system, you need to make sure the GRP through hull tube is the same diameter as the bigger diameter of the stainless steel cylinder.

Hope the attached picture will help and show those who have never seen this part (although they have it).

Olivier

Mike Longcor (SV Trilogy)
 

Thank you so much! This makes a lot of sense now... quite a bit different than what I was picturing.

I believe I have a 4" (101.6mm) hose fitted on the hull. Does anyone know the bigger diameter of the Amel flap box (yellow arrow in Olivier's photo)?

I think this will do wonders in keeping the ocean out.

Many thanks,
Mike Longcor
SV Trilogy - SM23
Opua, NZ

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Merci for this Olivier,

I hope Amel have stocks of them because I suspect there may be a run on them.

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl


On 30 January 2020 at 16:22 "Beaute Olivier via Groups.Io" <atlanticyachtsurvey@...> wrote:

Hello Mike,

your SM 23 did not have the rubber flap mounted on a stainless steel cylinder box.
This system came later probably around hull 100.
If your system has not been modified since original, your exhaust through hull system is just a GRP tube bonded to the hull, where the exhaust hose is glued into with silicone filler.

The rubber flap system has been installed on SMs (since hull 100) and on AMEL 54, 55, 64, 50 and 60 (not Santorins).

The plastic mufflers have been installed on SMs with Yanmar engines, all the Perkins and Volvo engines have (originally) stainless steel mufflers.

Mike, if you want to install the rubber flap system, you need to make sure the GRP through hull tube is the same diameter as the bigger diameter of the stainless steel cylinder.

Hope the attached picture will help and show those who have never seen this part (although they have it).

Olivier


 


 

 

Thanks, Olivier!

I took your photo and added it to the other photos I had. I hope that together these photos help others understand the exhaust system after SM #100. Corrective or Additional comments are welcome. The following is available in PDF and JPG format.
image.png


On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 9:24 PM Beaute Olivier via Groups.Io <atlanticyachtsurvey=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hello Mike,

your SM 23 did not have the rubber flap mounted on a stainless steel cylinder box.
This system came later probably around hull 100.
If your system has not been modified since original, your exhaust through hull system is just a GRP tube bonded to the hull, where the exhaust hose is glued into with silicone filler.

The rubber flap system has been installed on SMs (since hull 100) and on AMEL 54, 55, 64, 50 and 60 (not Santorins).

The plastic mufflers have been installed on SMs with Yanmar engines, all the Perkins and Volvo engines have (originally) stainless steel mufflers.

Mike, if you want to install the rubber flap system, you need to make sure the GRP through hull tube is the same diameter as the bigger diameter of the stainless steel cylinder.

Hope the attached picture will help and show those who have never seen this part (although they have it).

Olivier


--
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   
View My Training Calendar

Mark & Debbie Mueller
 

To try and mitigate this problem a 12 V normally open (NO) valve could be connected to the muffler drain.  12 V power can be obtained from a ship’s system such as the engine exhaust fan that only operates when the engine is running.  When the engine runs and the valve is energized, it will close blocking the drain line and keeping the engine exhaust contained; with the engine off and power removed the valve would return to its NO position and allow any water in the muffler or any water that subsequently enters the muffler to drain to the bilge.  Ahead of the solenoid valve I would install a manual ball valve as a backup in case the solenoid fails and not knowing what kind of contaminants are in the muffler consider installing a small filter.

 

I ran this idea by another forum member that is very knowledgeable about all things Amel.  His comment was “Do you think your idea is childproof?”.  It is not completely childproof since it is an active system however it is a way to mitigate the problem and I believe follows the KISS principle.  Additionally, it would be relatively inexpensive to implement while providing an alternative safeguard for the very expensive engine repair.


--
Mark Mueller
Brass Ring  A54

Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222
 

He all when the flap is not in stock by Amel , maybe you find it here 

Best 
Elja 
SY Balu 
SM 222

https://www.segelladen.de/Inhalt-untergruppen17/spiegeldurchfuehrung.htm

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Beaute Olivier
 

Hello Bill,

nothing to add so far. That's just a perfect information.

Olivier