main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io | Amel Santorin Specs and Alterations

JOHN HAYES

#48934

No we regularly get 50 plus knots in cook strait that are easier to deal with from a northerly direction than from the south. (Nothing between us and the Antarctic ). which means the wind cold and more constant or less gusty. In early July had 55 knots for three days trying to head north to Tonga past the kermadec islands.

I’m always happier to sail in 50 knots than be anchored waiting for an anchor to drag!

My boat is based in Wellington. Ie 41 degrees south and while in a westerly wind flow the winds alter course and are either north or south because of mountains and a wind funnel affect between the north and south islands

This is not territory for Mediterranean day sailors ........and I regret to say the new Amel designs which seem oriented to that market

My Santorin has proved safe though not always comfortable in these conditions ie 50 plus knots and 6 to 8 m waves. The point is to understand such conditions are not uncommon and a prudent skipper needs to be sure his boat ( and crew ) are up to the task. You may have noticed about a month ago a 47 foot yacht sank 35 miles off bream head off the bay of islands

The skipper died three crew rescued by helicopter...... in 50 knot winds. Not sure what brand of boat but I’ll bet money it was not a Santorin........ check it out in google or the yachting blogs

Answering your second question yes

And why would you not if you no your going to get caught in such conditions?? I’n my view it’s important to know that the skipper boat and crew are up for whatever might get thrown at them

And Hans Peter while your thinking spare a thought for one James Cook who 250 years ago wandered these parts in a small square rigged ship no engine no charts no sat nav or gps radio etc etc. got to tell you having followed some of his foot steps that he was an astonishingly competent seaman, sailor and navigator.

Best

John Hayes

Nga Waka sn41

Show quoted text

On 29/10/2019, at 10:32 AM, hanspeter baettig <hanspeter.baettig@...> wrote:

Sorry John 55 Kn = 10 Bft

------ Original Nachricht ------
Am Montag, 28. Okt, 2019 um 22:27, hanspeter baettig schrieb:

Hi John
Two questions only.
You sailed headwinds in 55 kn , means 12 Btf. or you where at ancer in a shelterd bay
2.You tryed your Santorin by purpose in 50 kn of wind?
fair winds Hanspeter
waiting for a genious reply!
Hanspeter
Tamango 2
SM16
Martinique
------ Original Nachricht ------
Am Montag, 28. Okt, 2019 um 18:06, JOHN HAYES schrieb:

Gidday Orion

I’ve done pretty much what your considering

So I began looking for a cruising ketch with centre cockpit and confined my choice to a Contest, Harley rassie (sp?) or an Amel and ended up with a Santorin and have been very happy with the choice. All amounts that follow are in NZ dollars

I came across a 1991 Santorin sailed to NZ from the Med. it has now had 4 owners and its name has been changed by each owner

I sailed it first around our South Island and the next year the north island and have just completed a voyage Wellington Nuku’alofa Vava’u Savusavu Denarau Vanuatu Noumea Wellington without incident except 55 knot head winds at times until a couple of days from Tonga

Living in the roaring 40’s we encounter strong winds at times.....I purposely took the boat out in winds of 50 plus knots to see what might break and those trips were important first to give me confidence in the boat. I had no previous knowledge of Amel and it’s systems

So costs

Boat $155k

Slip and take antifouling back to gel coat $10000.
An extravagance!!! Should have set up with cover cost .....,
Installed Zeus 2 chart plotter new wind gear and depth sounder $8000

Added AIS $1250

Replaced anchor chain with 120m 10mm Italian made chain $1500

Re galvanised anchors $200

On the first trip the Bimini blew apart replaced and redesigned in superior cloth $7500

The wind generator lost its feathers and I replaced with a silent wind $5000

We had to cut down the Genoa trying to get into akaroa harbour in 60 knots with the engine overheating and the headsail furling motor dying and I did not understand the need to cross over the sheets on the manual system

New Genoa $5000 rebuild furler motor and the gears in the gear box $4500

The motor was a Perkins 50 hp. It has a spline driven water pump which if not aligned precisely with a special tool chews up the spline in the water pump shaft. Happened twice cost $1250 each time for new spline and pump

Replaced the motor with a Volvo D250 and all skin fittings before heading to the pacific $32000

Brought new tender $3300 (don’t like it too heavy) plan to buy a carbon fibre replacement circa $8000

Replaced all mattresses and interior upholstery $8000

New main $3800. New mizzen $2000

New rigging $17000

Rebuilt the 3 furler motors $3000

Replaced stove $1600

New 6 person life raft $3800

Added a portable freezer to the front hanging locker. Been excellent $800. There is no freezer under the seats on my boat

Overhauled bow thruster $500

Overhauled spectra water maker by agent $750

Added second raycor fuel filter $750

Added forward scanner $2600. Might have been smarter to upgrade to a Zeus 3 has cheaper scanner connection.....I found Navico charts excellent and forward scanner marginal value

Replaced engine room fans $120

Replaced dodger windows $460

Replaced running rigging. $1500

Replaced flares added plbs life jackets. NZ required first aid kit $3500

Put on part b of the New outboard motor for tender $2000

I’ve also thought about adding an inner forestay which the SM has

My experience is that the prop generator and the wind generator provides all the power we have needed. We also have a couple of solar panels but don’t really need them

You might want to think about what you add to the stern. The large stern locker means we continually fight to minimise weight in the stern Because it affects bow stern trim. We carry the tender on the roof of the aft cabin which adds to the problem
Have I over capitalised? To secure insurance for off shore cost $5200. I had to get the boat valued. The value was $260k

Hope the foregoing is of use to your consideration

The Santorin has excellent seakeeping qualities l love it!!

John Hayes
Nga Waka sn 41

Wellington

On 29/10/2019, at 1:18 AM, Orion Martin <poonz1@...> wrote:

Good evening everyone,

After many months of struggling between the Super Maramu and the Santorin, we have settled on the Santorin to do a circumnavigation. In the end the main reasons was cost and time. We considered the possibility that a circumnavigation would take three years, in which all likelyhood we would never use the boat again once we had finished. While the SM is the perfect boat for us (if there is such a thing in yachting), the expenses involved to get the boat up to scratch before we even set sail (let alone the cost of the boat) we found hard to justify for a three year trip. So our next option is the Santorin, in which we think we can modify the galley (to include washing machine and extra bench space), modify the portside seating, add air con to the aft cabin, possibly build a solar arch and install lithium batteries, plus standard antifouling paint/servicing/other minor modifications for under $300k AUD(including the purchase of the boat. Any thoughts on this scenario and its feasibility would be most appreciated.

Regarding the Santorin, I have a few burning questions that i haven't been able to source the information for. Does the Santorin have:
- Freezer under salon seating?
- Any aircon? ( and is there space to install aircon units in aft/forward cabins and salon?)
- Is the Santorin 12V or 24V, and what is the advantage of having 24V compared with 12V?
- If I install the lithium batteries in the passageway, is it possible to fit a small generator in the engine room and do I need one? ( If I have lithium batteries and solar arch, I figure I may only have to turn on the main engine once a day to help charge the batteries with the lithium batteries holding enough power to run aircon in aft cabin during the evening).

I understand purchasing a yacht I would most likely not make any money when it came time to sell, though in this case i would hope to break even especially if we went to the trouble of doing these modifications to the Santorin that future buyers would appreciate. The only thing bugging me is whether the total cost involved with such an enterprise would be mostly recovered or I am throwing good money after bad and could perhaps be better off spending more to buy an SM with less headache.

Again thoughts and recommendations greatly appreciated.

Kindest regards
Orion

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS

#48936

High John. The sunk yacht was a Bavaria with a cirumnavigation under its belt with the same skipper. The 4 on boatd were all experienced off shore sailors. Apparently the windows stove in. I am sure there was a cascade of misfortine that lead to this outcome The rescue services were outstanding.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

Show quoted text

On 30 October 2019 at 21:26 JOHN HAYES <johnhayes862@...> wrote:

No we regularly get 50 plus knots in cook strait that are easier to deal with from a northerly direction than from the south. (Nothing between us and the Antarctic ). which means the wind cold and more constant or less gusty. In early July had 55 knots for three days trying to head north to Tonga past the kermadec islands.

I’m always happier to sail in 50 knots than be anchored waiting for an anchor to drag!

My boat is based in Wellington. Ie 41 degrees south and while in a westerly wind flow the winds alter course and are either north or south because of mountains and a wind funnel affect between the north and south islands

This is not territory for Mediterranean day sailors ........and I regret to say the new Amel designs which seem oriented to that market

My Santorin has proved safe though not always comfortable in these conditions ie 50 plus knots and 6 to 8 m waves. The point is to understand such conditions are not uncommon and a prudent skipper needs to be sure his boat ( and crew ) are up to the task. You may have noticed about a month ago a 47 foot yacht sank 35 miles off bream head off the bay of islands

The skipper died three crew rescued by helicopter...... in 50 knot winds. Not sure what brand of boat but I’ll bet money it was not a Santorin........ check it out in google or the yachting blogs

Answering your second question yes

And why would you not if you no your going to get caught in such conditions?? I’n my view it’s important to know that the skipper boat and crew are up for whatever might get thrown at them

And Hans Peter while your thinking spare a thought for one James Cook who 250 years ago wandered these parts in a small square rigged ship no engine no charts no sat nav or gps radio etc etc. got to tell you having followed some of his foot steps that he was an astonishingly competent seaman, sailor and navigator.

Best

John Hayes
Nga Waka sn41

On 29/10/2019, at 10:32 AM, hanspeter baettig <hanspeter.baettig@...> wrote:

Sorry John 55 Kn = 10 Bft

------ Original Nachricht ------
Am Montag, 28. Okt, 2019 um 22:27, hanspeter baettig schrieb:

Hi John
Two questions only.
You sailed headwinds in 55 kn , means 12 Btf. or you where at ancer in a shelterd bay
2.You tryed your Santorin by purpose in 50 kn of wind?
fair winds Hanspeter
waiting for a genious reply!
Hanspeter
Tamango 2
SM16
Martinique
------ Original Nachricht ------
Am Montag, 28. Okt, 2019 um 18:06, JOHN HAYES schrieb:

Gidday Orion

I’ve done pretty much what your considering

So I began looking for a cruising ketch with centre cockpit and confined my choice to a Contest, Harley rassie (sp?) or an Amel and ended up with a Santorin and have been very happy with the choice. All amounts that follow are in NZ dollars

I came across a 1991 Santorin sailed to NZ from the Med. it has now had 4 owners and its name has been changed by each owner

I sailed it first around our South Island and the next year the north island and have just completed a voyage Wellington Nuku’alofa Vava’u Savusavu Denarau Vanuatu Noumea Wellington without incident except 55 knot head winds at times until a couple of days from Tonga

Living in the roaring 40’s we encounter strong winds at times.....I purposely took the boat out in winds of 50 plus knots to see what might break and those trips were important first to give me confidence in the boat. I had no previous knowledge of Amel and it’s systems

So costs

Boat $155k

Slip and take antifouling back to gel coat $10000.
An extravagance!!! Should have set up with cover cost .....,
Installed Zeus 2 chart plotter new wind gear and depth sounder $8000

Added AIS $1250

Replaced anchor chain with 120m 10mm Italian made chain $1500

Re galvanised anchors $200

On the first trip the Bimini blew apart replaced and redesigned in superior cloth $7500

The wind generator lost its feathers and I replaced with a silent wind $5000

We had to cut down the Genoa trying to get into akaroa harbour in 60 knots with the engine overheating and the headsail furling motor dying and I did not understand the need to cross over the sheets on the manual system

New Genoa $5000 rebuild furler motor and the gears in the gear box $4500

The motor was a Perkins 50 hp. It has a spline driven water pump which if not aligned precisely with a special tool chews up the spline in the water pump shaft. Happened twice cost $1250 each time for new spline and pump

Replaced the motor with a Volvo D250 and all skin fittings before heading to the pacific $32000

Brought new tender $3300 (don’t like it too heavy) plan to buy a carbon fibre replacement circa $8000

Replaced all mattresses and interior upholstery $8000

New main $3800. New mizzen $2000

New rigging $17000

Rebuilt the 3 furler motors $3000

Replaced stove $1600

New 6 person life raft $3800

Added a portable freezer to the front hanging locker. Been excellent $800. There is no freezer under the seats on my boat

Overhauled bow thruster $500

Overhauled spectra water maker by agent $750

Added second raycor fuel filter $750

Added forward scanner $2600. Might have been smarter to upgrade to a Zeus 3 has cheaper scanner connection.....I found Navico charts excellent and forward scanner marginal value

Replaced engine room fans $120

Replaced dodger windows $460

Replaced running rigging. $1500

Replaced flares added plbs life jackets. NZ required first aid kit $3500

Put on part b of the New outboard motor for tender $2000

I’ve also thought about adding an inner forestay which the SM has

My experience is that the prop generator and the wind generator provides all the power we have needed. We also have a couple of solar panels but don’t really need them

You might want to think about what you add to the stern. The large stern locker means we continually fight to minimise weight in the stern Because it affects bow stern trim. We carry the tender on the roof of the aft cabin which adds to the problem
Have I over capitalised? To secure insurance for off shore cost $5200. I had to get the boat valued. The value was $260k

Hope the foregoing is of use to your consideration

The Santorin has excellent seakeeping qualities l love it!!

John Hayes
Nga Waka sn 41

Wellington

On 29/10/2019, at 1:18 AM, Orion Martin < poonz1@... > wrote:

Good evening everyone,

After many months of struggling between the Super Maramu and the Santorin, we have settled on the Santorin to do a circumnavigation. In the end the main reasons was cost and time. We considered the possibility that a circumnavigation would take three years, in which all likelyhood we would never use the boat again once we had finished. While the SM is the perfect boat for us (if there is such a thing in yachting), the expenses involved to get the boat up to scratch before we even set sail (let alone the cost of the boat) we found hard to justify for a three year trip. So our next option is the Santorin, in which we think we can modify the galley (to include washing machine and extra bench space), modify the portside seating, add air con to the aft cabin, possibly build a solar arch and install lithium batteries, plus standard antifouling paint/servicing/other minor modifications for under $300k AUD(including the purchase of the boat. Any thoughts on this scenario and its feasibility would be most appreciated.

Regarding the Santorin, I have a few burning questions that i haven't been able to source the information for. Does the Santorin have:
- Freezer under salon seating?
- Any aircon? ( and is there space to install aircon units in aft/forward cabins and salon?)
- Is the Santorin 12V or 24V, and what is the advantage of having 24V compared with 12V?
- If I install the lithium batteries in the passageway, is it possible to fit a small generator in the engine room and do I need one? ( If I have lithium batteries and solar arch, I figure I may only have to turn on the main engine once a day to help charge the batteries with the lithium batteries holding enough power to run aircon in aft cabin during the evening).

I understand purchasing a yacht I would most likely not make any money when it came time to sell, though in this case i would hope to break even especially if we went to the trouble of doing these modifications to the Santorin that future buyers would appreciate. The only thing bugging me is whether the total cost involved with such an enterprise would be mostly recovered or I am throwing good money after bad and could perhaps be better off spending more to buy an SM with less headache.

Again thoughts and recommendations greatly appreciated.

Kindest regards
Orion
</hanspeter.baettig@...>

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS

#48953

Hi John, i understand from your email that you had 50 knots on the nose for three days on the way to Tonga I would like to learn from you. What sail did you have up and what angle to the wind were you sailing. Interested whether you were close hauled, tight reaching or hove to. You Southern Kiwis are tough.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

Show quoted text

On 30 October 2019 at 21:26 JOHN HAYES <johnhayes862@...> wrote:

No we regularly get 50 plus knots in cook strait that are easier to deal with from a northerly direction than from the south. (Nothing between us and the Antarctic ). which means the wind cold and more constant or less gusty. In early July had 55 knots for three days trying to head north to Tonga past the kermadec islands.

I’m always happier to sail in 50 knots than be anchored waiting for an anchor to drag!

My boat is based in Wellington. Ie 41 degrees south and while in a westerly wind flow the winds alter course and are either north or south because of mountains and a wind funnel affect between the north and south islands

This is not territory for Mediterranean day sailors ........and I regret to say the new Amel designs which seem oriented to that market

My Santorin has proved safe though not always comfortable in these conditions ie 50 plus knots and 6 to 8 m waves. The point is to understand such conditions are not uncommon and a prudent skipper needs to be sure his boat ( and crew ) are up to the task. You may have noticed about a month ago a 47 foot yacht sank 35 miles off bream head off the bay of islands

The skipper died three crew rescued by helicopter...... in 50 knot winds. Not sure what brand of boat but I’ll bet money it was not a Santorin........ check it out in google or the yachting blogs

Answering your second question yes

And why would you not if you no your going to get caught in such conditions?? I’n my view it’s important to know that the skipper boat and crew are up for whatever might get thrown at them

And Hans Peter while your thinking spare a thought for one James Cook who 250 years ago wandered these parts in a small square rigged ship no engine no charts no sat nav or gps radio etc etc. got to tell you having followed some of his foot steps that he was an astonishingly competent seaman, sailor and navigator.

Best

John Hayes
Nga Waka sn41

On 29/10/2019, at 10:32 AM, hanspeter baettig <hanspeter.baettig@...> wrote:

Sorry John 55 Kn = 10 Bft

------ Original Nachricht ------
Am Montag, 28. Okt, 2019 um 22:27, hanspeter baettig schrieb:

Hi John
Two questions only.
You sailed headwinds in 55 kn , means 12 Btf. or you where at ancer in a shelterd bay
2.You tryed your Santorin by purpose in 50 kn of wind?
fair winds Hanspeter
waiting for a genious reply!
Hanspeter
Tamango 2
SM16
Martinique
------ Original Nachricht ------
Am Montag, 28. Okt, 2019 um 18:06, JOHN HAYES schrieb:

Gidday Orion

I’ve done pretty much what your considering

So I began looking for a cruising ketch with centre cockpit and confined my choice to a Contest, Harley rassie (sp?) or an Amel and ended up with a Santorin and have been very happy with the choice. All amounts that follow are in NZ dollars

I came across a 1991 Santorin sailed to NZ from the Med. it has now had 4 owners and its name has been changed by each owner

I sailed it first around our South Island and the next year the north island and have just completed a voyage Wellington Nuku’alofa Vava’u Savusavu Denarau Vanuatu Noumea Wellington without incident except 55 knot head winds at times until a couple of days from Tonga

Living in the roaring 40’s we encounter strong winds at times.....I purposely took the boat out in winds of 50 plus knots to see what might break and those trips were important first to give me confidence in the boat. I had no previous knowledge of Amel and it’s systems

So costs

Boat $155k

Slip and take antifouling back to gel coat $10000.
An extravagance!!! Should have set up with cover cost .....,
Installed Zeus 2 chart plotter new wind gear and depth sounder $8000

Added AIS $1250

Replaced anchor chain with 120m 10mm Italian made chain $1500

Re galvanised anchors $200

On the first trip the Bimini blew apart replaced and redesigned in superior cloth $7500

The wind generator lost its feathers and I replaced with a silent wind $5000

We had to cut down the Genoa trying to get into akaroa harbour in 60 knots with the engine overheating and the headsail furling motor dying and I did not understand the need to cross over the sheets on the manual system

New Genoa $5000 rebuild furler motor and the gears in the gear box $4500

The motor was a Perkins 50 hp. It has a spline driven water pump which if not aligned precisely with a special tool chews up the spline in the water pump shaft. Happened twice cost $1250 each time for new spline and pump

Replaced the motor with a Volvo D250 and all skin fittings before heading to the pacific $32000

Brought new tender $3300 (don’t like it too heavy) plan to buy a carbon fibre replacement circa $8000

Replaced all mattresses and interior upholstery $8000

New main $3800. New mizzen $2000

New rigging $17000

Rebuilt the 3 furler motors $3000

Replaced stove $1600

New 6 person life raft $3800

Added a portable freezer to the front hanging locker. Been excellent $800. There is no freezer under the seats on my boat

Overhauled bow thruster $500

Overhauled spectra water maker by agent $750

Added second raycor fuel filter $750

Added forward scanner $2600. Might have been smarter to upgrade to a Zeus 3 has cheaper scanner connection.....I found Navico charts excellent and forward scanner marginal value

Replaced engine room fans $120

Replaced dodger windows $460

Replaced running rigging. $1500

Replaced flares added plbs life jackets. NZ required first aid kit $3500

Put on part b of the New outboard motor for tender $2000

I’ve also thought about adding an inner forestay which the SM has

My experience is that the prop generator and the wind generator provides all the power we have needed. We also have a couple of solar panels but don’t really need them

You might want to think about what you add to the stern. The large stern locker means we continually fight to minimise weight in the stern Because it affects bow stern trim. We carry the tender on the roof of the aft cabin which adds to the problem
Have I over capitalised? To secure insurance for off shore cost $5200. I had to get the boat valued. The value was $260k

Hope the foregoing is of use to your consideration

The Santorin has excellent seakeeping qualities l love it!!

John Hayes
Nga Waka sn 41

Wellington

On 29/10/2019, at 1:18 AM, Orion Martin < poonz1@... > wrote:

Good evening everyone,

After many months of struggling between the Super Maramu and the Santorin, we have settled on the Santorin to do a circumnavigation. In the end the main reasons was cost and time. We considered the possibility that a circumnavigation would take three years, in which all likelyhood we would never use the boat again once we had finished. While the SM is the perfect boat for us (if there is such a thing in yachting), the expenses involved to get the boat up to scratch before we even set sail (let alone the cost of the boat) we found hard to justify for a three year trip. So our next option is the Santorin, in which we think we can modify the galley (to include washing machine and extra bench space), modify the portside seating, add air con to the aft cabin, possibly build a solar arch and install lithium batteries, plus standard antifouling paint/servicing/other minor modifications for under $300k AUD(including the purchase of the boat. Any thoughts on this scenario and its feasibility would be most appreciated.

Regarding the Santorin, I have a few burning questions that i haven't been able to source the information for. Does the Santorin have:
- Freezer under salon seating?
- Any aircon? ( and is there space to install aircon units in aft/forward cabins and salon?)
- Is the Santorin 12V or 24V, and what is the advantage of having 24V compared with 12V?
- If I install the lithium batteries in the passageway, is it possible to fit a small generator in the engine room and do I need one? ( If I have lithium batteries and solar arch, I figure I may only have to turn on the main engine once a day to help charge the batteries with the lithium batteries holding enough power to run aircon in aft cabin during the evening).

I understand purchasing a yacht I would most likely not make any money when it came time to sell, though in this case i would hope to break even especially if we went to the trouble of doing these modifications to the Santorin that future buyers would appreciate. The only thing bugging me is whether the total cost involved with such an enterprise would be mostly recovered or I am throwing good money after bad and could perhaps be better off spending more to buy an SM with less headache.

Again thoughts and recommendations greatly appreciated.

Kindest regards
Orion
</hanspeter.baettig@...>

Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica

#48956

Hello Marc,

I fully agree with you.

I would give the same advice. Better buy a SM or A54 that comes with all the planed gear in place.

We did the same, did not change anything, until we owned Vela Nautica a year. Exept I feeled like need to change some lines and regretted later because not all was reasonable. We learned that some gear (the usual suspects) needed urgent refit because maintenace was neglected by the old owner.

I would also agree, adding lithium is only something that will pay in a longer run than 3 years. Only it offers compfort with short gen times and less noise. But is a major project and took us 4 month until all was in place and working and tested as expected. Before we could do long range trips with a peacefull mind.

So long

Oliver

A54#39

Vela Nautica

Gibraltar

Show quoted text

On Mon, Oct 28, 2019, 15:15 Mark Erdos <mcerdos@...> wrote:

Orion,

I mean the upmost respect as I say this, I do not think the Santorin and adding upgrades is a good plan. You are looking to purchase an Amel and make significant investments and changes. Just the lithium upgrade along is going to cost US$15,000+, Aircon is another US$10,000+ etc (assuming you have an electrical system that can handle the load or you’ll have to make major changes). Have you considered the cost of ownership while making these upgrades. They will all take considerable time. You will also need an electrician knowledgeable of Amel’s unique floating ground system (a very rare find). Why not buy the SM that already has this stuff. I think you can easily find a well kept Amel in this price range (maybe a tad more). Also keep in mind, in three years when you sell the SM, it will sell for more than the Santorin giving you your extra money back.

The best advice I received when purchasing Cream Puff was from Bill Rouse who told me not to change anything for a year. This was very sound advice that prove invaluable. We sailed the eastern USA for the first year of our cruising getting to know our Amel. Only then did we make a couple of changes. We added an arch and solar. We have tried to keep all systems on our vessel as close to the original design as possible. We learned very quickly about the level of detailed thought that went into the vessel design.

There is a very good string in this group regarding lithium upgrades. You will find it is not as easy as it sounds. You will also need to change alternators, battery chargers, regulators etc. These are major expensive components for a three year plan. Why not just install good quality batteries. Even if you change them all out midway, this is still 20% of the cost of the upgrade. A good set of Firefly batteries will last more than three years, again 1/3 the cost. I can see adding lithium for a ten year plan, but not a three.

I see you make no mention of a washer/dryer. Perhaps the most valuable piece of equipment on our boat is the washer/dryer. We have learned in our travels how doing laundry is a major pain. I can’t imagine cruising full-time without a washer/dryer. This sure has made life on anchor a lot more comfortable.

I think your idea of breaking even on upgrades you make to a vessel is a little myopic. All the upgrades will do is sell the vessel faster when it goes to market. You will never recoup monies spent on a boat. If you try, you’ll own the boat longer than planned.

My advice, either buy the Santorin and sail it as is. Or, buy the SM and sail it as is. The SM will offer more comforts and in my opinion is easier to sail.

This is just my 2¢, I’m sure others will disagree. But, I’d love to see their viewpoints also.

With best regards,

Mark

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Vista Mar, Panama

www.creampuff.us

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Orion Martin
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2019 8:18 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Amel Santorin Specs and Alterations

Good evening everyone,

After many months of struggling between the Super Maramu and the Santorin, we have settled on the Santorin to do a circumnavigation. In the end the main reasons was cost and time. We considered the possibility that a circumnavigation would take three years, in which all likelyhood we would never use the boat again once we had finished. While the SM is the perfect boat for us (if there is such a thing in yachting), the expenses involved to get the boat up to scratch before we even set sail (let alone the cost of the boat) we found hard to justify for a three year trip. So our next option is the Santorin, in which we think we can modify the galley (to include washing machine and extra bench space), modify the portside seating, add air con to the aft cabin, possibly build a solar arch and install lithium batteries, plus standard antifouling paint/servicing/other minor modifications for under $300k AUD(including the purchase of the boat. Any thoughts on this scenario and its feasibility would be most appreciated.

Regarding the Santorin, I have a few burning questions that i haven't been able to source the information for. Does the Santorin have:
- Freezer under salon seating?
- Any aircon? ( and is there space to install aircon units in aft/forward cabins and salon?)
- Is the Santorin 12V or 24V, and what is the advantage of having 24V compared with 12V?
- If I install the lithium batteries in the passageway, is it possible to fit a small generator in the engine room and do I need one? ( If I have lithium batteries and solar arch, I figure I may only have to turn on the main engine once a day to help charge the batteries with the lithium batteries holding enough power to run aircon in aft cabin during the evening).

I understand purchasing a yacht I would most likely not make any money when it came time to sell, though in this case i would hope to break even especially if we went to the trouble of doing these modifications to the Santorin that future buyers would appreciate. The only thing bugging me is whether the total cost involved with such an enterprise would be mostly recovered or I am throwing good money after bad and could perhaps be better off spending more to buy an SM with less headache.

Again thoughts and recommendations greatly appreciated.

Kindest regards
Orion

JOHN HAYES

#65140

Some days your lucky Mal and cash is generally king!

And yes I replaced a lot of things but only because I did a circuit in the pacific and then down to the Auckland islands just prior to Covid arriving. I would not for example have replaced the motor or rigging or put in forward sonar or purchased a new life raft if I was sticking to more weather moderate places or within reach of accessing assistance were that necessary. In the remoter pacific and sub Antarctic your on your own and I see no point in a wet cheque book

Another issue for a Nz flagged vessel is the govt inspired requirement to complete a category one inspection. The way to recover common sense is to register the vessel elsewhere ……options include Ireland or Cook Islands.

Best

John Hayes

Nga Waka

Wellington

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On 16/08/2022, at 11:22 AM, Mal Lawrence <mal19lawrence@...> wrote:

Hi John, was that 155Nz fully imported cost? if so that's around 140kAus Taxes Paid, you did well although it looks like you had to put a bit of $ into it.