locked Amel Yacht Owners Group


 

All,

I am really proud to be a member of this group and very happy to be associated with each of you. Today marks my 16th year with the Amel Yacht Owners Group. There are plenty of members who will soon mark their 20th anniversary with our group. I believe that I speak for the vast majority in saying that the Amel Yacht Owners Group has made owning an Amel much more rewarding. I think it is extremely difficult to find a social media group without disruptive members and without drama caused by personal affronts. Thank all of you for making this what it is.  

Today I need to speak to you about the following, which is on our homepage. "Please refrain from criticism of persons or businesses in which you may have experienced unsatisfactory results, because it would be one-sided, without the ability of the other side to respond." Although I do not like to remind members, today I found myself in the unfortunate position of having to remind one member of the above. 

At 74-years old, I have certainly been around long enough to understand the frustration caused when my expectations are not met. As in most disagreements, the dispute between this member and the vendor has plenty of mitigating factors and not much is cut and dry. I am very saddened that this happened and wish that our fellow member was never disappointed because his expectations were not met. However, for as long as I own it, our group will not be the place to post these issues.

I am very thankful that many of you have given a lot to this group without asking anything in return. I trust that every member will continue to respect each other and our limited suggestions for posting.

Bill

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


John Clanton
 

In my view, Bill leads the idea of independence in thought and experience. Please continue without change.

J


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Ralf Schroeder
 

Hi Bill,
you do a great job in this wonderfully and 
helpfully board.

And yes, I‘m completly with your post.

Best wishes
Ralf
Sharki Baghira #42



Am 03.07.2021 um 20:59 schrieb CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...>:


All,

I am really proud to be a member of this group and very happy to be associated with each of you. Today marks my 16th year with the Amel Yacht Owners Group. There are plenty of members who will soon mark their 20th anniversary with our group. I believe that I speak for the vast majority in saying that the Amel Yacht Owners Group has made owning an Amel much more rewarding. I think it is extremely difficult to find a social media group without disruptive members and without drama caused by personal affronts. Thank all of you for making this what it is.  

Today I need to speak to you about the following, which is on our homepage. "Please refrain from criticism of persons or businesses in which you may have experienced unsatisfactory results, because it would be one-sided, without the ability of the other side to respond." Although I do not like to remind members, today I found myself in the unfortunate position of having to remind one member of the above. 

At 74-years old, I have certainly been around long enough to understand the frustration caused when my expectations are not met. As in most disagreements, the dispute between this member and the vendor has plenty of mitigating factors and not much is cut and dry. I am very saddened that this happened and wish that our fellow member was never disappointed because his expectations were not met. However, for as long as I own it, our group will not be the place to post these issues.

I am very thankful that many of you have given a lot to this group without asking anything in return. I trust that every member will continue to respect each other and our limited suggestions for posting.

Bill

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar
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Davi Rozgonyi
 


Let me preface by saying, of course, massive thanks to Bill for the incredible work that he does to run this forum and promote Amel in general. 

I gotta say I agree with Ken. One of the (if not THE) best thing about a group like this is to exchange information. So we learn from others' mistakes rather than make them ourselves first, if possible. As long as critiques and reports of poor service are kept in a "gentlemanly" manner, a fair accounting of the negative experience, I would like to read it to avoid the problem if I can, rather than experiencing the problem for myself. Or at least go into the situation with caution. I fail to see how this conflicts with us Amel owners helping each other, nor how it is not simply putting the owners interests first (as an owners' group should do). 


Ross Hickey & Donna Hammond
 

I also agree with Ken,

Feedback is important both positive and where a company/contractor may learn. It’s ok to put this feedback out on personal blogs, YouTube etc but not ok to provide the information on the Amel forum.  I’m sure that Amel owners coming to Turkey would appreciate how I have been treated by several so called reliable/recommended Amel group contractors here in Turkey costing months of time, expense and total unprofessional. This information I see is vital to our forum members. Those recommended companies that know that only positive comments can be made about them in the forum does not assist in Amel owners knowing the true picture and keep those companies honest to provide our group with the best service that we should expect.

As COVID bites around the world and economies are hurting, people that may have been reliable in the past may not be so reliable now. I believe that most of the time it is not mistakes that have been made by Amel owners, it is mistakes being made by so called professionals working on our yachts. 

Maybe as a member we can advise Amel group members to contact us personally through the forum if they wish to be advised of certain unsatisfactory performance and what to be aware of. 

Otherwise we will be forced to find other methods to publish this information because it is important that we share this information amounts to our members. Buyer beware.

I can’t help that not being able to provide open feedback benefits a few, but not many.

Regards
Ross Hickey
SV Intrepid Kiwi
SM2K #356

On Sunday, July 4, 2021, 12:38 pm, Davi Rozgonyi <davi.rozgonyi@...> wrote:


Let me preface by saying, of course, massive thanks to Bill for the incredible work that he does to run this forum and promote Amel in general. 

I gotta say I agree with Ken. One of the (if not THE) best thing about a group like this is to exchange information. So we learn from others' mistakes rather than make them ourselves first, if possible. As long as critiques and reports of poor service are kept in a "gentlemanly" manner, a fair accounting of the negative experience, I would like to read it to avoid the problem if I can, rather than experiencing the problem for myself. Or at least go into the situation with caution. I fail to see how this conflicts with us Amel owners helping each other, nor how it is not simply putting the owners interests first (as an owners' group should do). 


Orion Martin
 

Hi guys,

I remember a while back when Ken had an issue with a contractor I believe somewhere in the Caribbean and he proceeded to mention it here to the forum. At the time I didn’t think anything other than it was good to know for future reference. However, I think Bill said politely that members should refrain from commentary on services rendered that could have an negative impact on the community you’re cruising in. I agreed with that, there would be numerous locations around the world where economic circumstances are hard and people need all the business they can get. This is a bit of a conundrum, how do you not negatively impact that community (for example a local marine mechanic unable to afford things for his family because his work has been disparaged by cruisers who are likely doing ok themselves financially)? As I’m yet to buy an Amel (hopefully shortly), I try to approach it from how I’d feel should I be faced with similar circumstances. I suppose discretion is the order of the day, if I’m not blatantly ripped off or I am less than impressed with work done on my future boat yet we will get by, l’d probably avoid ever going there again or finding a better alternative the next time around. Should I tell other people? All things considered, if it was an extreme case I’d most likely inform other Amel members. If it’s one of those unfortunate incidents where the poor mechanic wasn’t up to date with his level of skill required for the job or I could see he was trying his best but still mangled the job then you’d have to give him a pass. The point being I didn’t believe it’s necessary to point out all the faults in people across the world on this site, but I do think it’s appropriate to call out blatant behaviour that is both unprofessional and potentially dangerous. If someone tried to pull a fast one on me or they were lax in carrying out their duties (an example being the rigger Delos hired in Malaysia (?) to look over their rigging but did a very average inspection) then I’d probably call that out because that is potentially life threatening. Again, discretion is advised. But since I don’t yet have an Amel, maybe my tune will change when I’m out on the highs seas spending big dollars to maintain her. But I’ll always keep in the back of my mind that wherever I go, I will be very grateful that community has allowed me to sail into their world for an experience that is priceless. I will owe them that gratitude, which will hopefully temper any grievances I encounter with a local.


On 4 Jul 2021, at 8:24 pm, Ross Hickey & Donna Hammond via groups.io <southernadventurer@...> wrote:

 I also agree with Ken,

Feedback is important both positive and where a company/contractor may learn. It’s ok to put this feedback out on personal blogs, YouTube etc but not ok to provide the information on the Amel forum.  I’m sure that Amel owners coming to Turkey would appreciate how I have been treated by several so called reliable/recommended Amel group contractors here in Turkey costing months of time, expense and total unprofessional. This information I see is vital to our forum members. Those recommended companies that know that only positive comments can be made about them in the forum does not assist in Amel owners knowing the true picture and keep those companies honest to provide our group with the best service that we should expect.

As COVID bites around the world and economies are hurting, people that may have been reliable in the past may not be so reliable now. I believe that most of the time it is not mistakes that have been made by Amel owners, it is mistakes being made by so called professionals working on our yachts. 

Maybe as a member we can advise Amel group members to contact us personally through the forum if they wish to be advised of certain unsatisfactory performance and what to be aware of. 

Otherwise we will be forced to find other methods to publish this information because it is important that we share this information amounts to our members. Buyer beware.

I can’t help that not being able to provide open feedback benefits a few, but not many.

Regards
Ross Hickey
SV Intrepid Kiwi
SM2K #356
Cruising Cyprus


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Sunday, July 4, 2021, 12:38 pm, Davi Rozgonyi <davi.rozgonyi@...> wrote:


Let me preface by saying, of course, massive thanks to Bill for the incredible work that he does to run this forum and promote Amel in general. 

I gotta say I agree with Ken. One of the (if not THE) best thing about a group like this is to exchange information. So we learn from others' mistakes rather than make them ourselves first, if possible. As long as critiques and reports of poor service are kept in a "gentlemanly" manner, a fair accounting of the negative experience, I would like to read it to avoid the problem if I can, rather than experiencing the problem for myself. Or at least go into the situation with caution. I fail to see how this conflicts with us Amel owners helping each other, nor how it is not simply putting the owners interests first (as an owners' group should do). 


Paul Harries
 

As a potential buyer I study this forum with great care. There are two sides to this.
I fully agree with Bill's approach of preventing someone from using the forum to grind an ax.
On the other hand poor workmanship, incompetence and dishonesty amongst vendors cannot be tolerated. Striking the balance is very hard.
I understand the arguments from both a buyer and vendor perspective. 
One option would be to open a subforum on vendors, each vendor entered as a topic. If all users posted their experiences both positive and negative then decency should prevail. The key is to prevent one angry voice from being the sole reference for a vendor.


--
Paul Harries
Prospective Amel Buyer


Nick Fowle SM 404 Rascal <svrascal@...>
 

100% agree …. The forum should be used to voice both good and bad experiences with vendors, preferred or otherwise 

SV Rascal
Sm 404
En route Rodney Bay

Sent from ProtonMail for iOS


On Sun, Jul 4, 2021 at 08:46, Paul Harries via groups.io <Pharries@...> wrote:
As a potential buyer I study this forum with great care. There are two sides to this.
I fully agree with Bill's approach of preventing someone from using the forum to grind an ax.
On the other hand poor workmanship, incompetence and dishonesty amongst vendors cannot be tolerated. Striking the balance is very hard.
I understand the arguments from both a buyer and vendor perspective. 
One option would be to open a subforum on vendors, each vendor entered as a topic. If all users posted their experiences both positive and negative then decency should prevail. The key is to prevent one angry voice from being the sole reference for a vendor.


--
Paul Harries
Prospective Amel Buyer



John Babot
 

Sounds reasonable to me.

Thanks,

John


Paul Osterberg
 

Ken,
Absolutely agree with you, booth good nd bad experiences are valuable to communicate.
Paul on SY Kerpa SM#259 on route to Porto Santo, Madeira 


 

All concerned,

Because I do not want to see this group morph into the kind of group that is full of more drama than data, I answered Ken's posting privately because my answer included some personal information. 

However, I am honor-bound to respond publicly to the following statement since it was made in a public forum: 
Ken said, "Especially regarding a company that has financial ties to the Forum Owner."
I respect Ken and assume that he has been told something very untrue by someone. His statement saddens me very much. I take it personally as an affront to my ethics and honor. 

My response is that I have never requested or received any personal gain, reward, commission, or anything else from any vendor or anyone with regard to anything I do with the Amel Yacht Owners Group or with my clients and the Amel Owners Yacht School. I do not exchange favors of any sort with any vendor or anyone. I pride myself as an independent 3rd party in my relations with my clients and preferred vendors. 

Let's not continue this Topic thread.

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sun, Jul 4, 2021 at 3:37 AM Ken Powers SV Aquarius <ken@...> wrote:
I like the Amel Forum, and have been very happy to be a member.  But, I still believe that just about everything we write on this forum, is opinion.   Even the installation procedure of the BT Seals, seems to be opinion.  

I would like clarification on a few statements:
1. However, for as long as "I" own it, "our" group will not be the place to post these issues.  
2. Bill leads the idea of independence in thought and experience.

The first statement bags the question, WHO does own this group?   Bill has done a great job bringing the Amel owners together, and the group is a place where the owners collectively share ideas, trade experiences, and yes, share opinion.  The group COLLECTIVELY answers questions, and is a cool place to get information about our Amels, but the Amel Forum is not just One person.

A while ago I saw that a member asked the question, " Does anyone know a good marina around xxxxxx?".   After a question like that, the author is looking for opinion, and depending on who responds, the author can decide on how to use the response.   Let's say,  there is a rule ....  No member of the Amel Owners Group can write anything negative about a marina...  Members would be able to respond with only positive opinions about a marina,  and all negative responses will be discouraged and removed.  No one wants to be part of a group that bickers about this or that, but if the Amel Forum is a place to write positive opinions about a marina (or Supplier), then it must be a place to write negative responses.   

Let's say that 10 Amel owners have berthed at a marina, and were all overcharged for electricity, and then had to pay inflated bills.  The 10 owners are not able to write anything about the marina on the Amel Forum because they have nothing good to say, but Captan Joe has 900AH at 24V of LiFePO4 had wonderful things to say about the the marina because he didn't have to plug into shore power...  And, maybe Captain Joe also gets a 5% commission on every Amel that berths at the marina.   So, of coarse, Captain Joe sez wonderful things about the marina, and more Amel owners will go to the marina and have to pay inflated bills.  Does anything seem wrong with this?

Regarding contractors - 

I have QSails on Aquarius.  I am VERY happy with my sails, and have nothing but good things to say about the support I received from QSails.  On my YouTube channel I always say good things about my sails, all produced by QSails...  I have NEVER received any financial gain from QSails, and I paid full price for EVERYTHING I bought/received from QSails.  I promote products that in my opinion are just "Dam Good" products!  If a member wrote anything bad about QSails, I would definitely want to know what's up.  But, nothing bad can be written on the Forum.  Especially regarding a company that has financial ties to the Forum "Owner".   All that said, if I had to buy another Sail, right now, I would call QSails!  

Aquarius caught fire last week.  Yes, she could have burned to the ground.  This is no joke.  Some of you might smile, because if you have a YouTube channel, you know just how many HATTERS there are out there.  The following 24 hours was spent searching for the exact spot where that fire started.  I got exactly 2 hours of sleep that night because I was leave Thailand in 3 days.  I found the electrical connection where the fire started, and this connection was changed by an American Dude at the North end of Phuket one year ago.  The work completed by this guy/company was, in my opinion crap, and in my opinion created the problem that lead to a fire on Aquarius.  Almost everything he touched, except for the questionable connection was subsaquently changed by another electrician hired to clean up the previous electricians mess.   But, I should not warn the rest of the of the Forum about this guy, because we can't say anything negative about contractors.  But, he can sit on Aquarius explain how all the Thai's are all stupid, showing me how his Thai worker ruined a tool he used that day working on Aquarius.  I just asked him ....  If he is so stupid, what the XXXX is he doing on My Boat?

I also discussed my opinion of this electrical contractor with another Amel 54 owner that had work done by him.  That A54 owner confirmed my opinion of his services.

I am not sorry that my opinions are in opposition to the "Owner."  And, as a member, I would like the following rule change.   

1.  If a member writes a good comment or promotes a product or service, all financial ties should also be reviled.
2.  As long as a negative comment is in good taste, and not a personal attack, the negative comment should be tolerated.  If a member continually makes negative or makes personal attacks, the member may be removed from the Forum.  (Like I may be for these statements)

If, because I disagree with the "Owner", I am removed, so be it.

Ken Powers
Aquarius SM2K#262




Porter McRoberts
 

Ken. 

Just so we’re clear: Bill Rouse receives no financial remuneration from vendor recommendations. 

The fact that he picks up the phone when I call him at odd hours from all over the world, takes the enormous amount of time to respond to me and others, and fights for Amel owners all without any financial gain other than the small retainer I sent him years ago sets him quite apart from most in the industry.  

I see him as about non-biased, yet enthusiastic as a person can get. 

Like you, I think honest reports are invaluable, and especially when coupled with emotionless facts. “Non-endorsements” are valuable, and perhaps more so than endorsements, but of course without the drivel that clouds the scenario. To that end, Bill does a remarkable job of keeping this forum right on track.  (go visit a Leopard forum for example, it’s like the Wild West.)

To be clear: He owns the forum because he foots the bill. Someone has to. 

Bill’s remarkable “product” is his fealty to solid information, and that only. He’s never sold sailors to vendors. 

Hope to share a beer with you someday, you’re a bit ahead of us geographically. Until then, cheers. 

Porter McRoberts 
S/V IBIS A54-152
WhatsApp:+1 754 265 2206
Www.fouribis.net

On Jul 5, 2021, at 4:37 AM, Paul Osterberg <osterberg.paul.l@...> wrote:

Ken,
Absolutely agree with you, booth good nd bad experiences are valuable to communicate.
Paul on SY Kerpa SM#259 on route to Porto Santo, Madeira 


 

One last thought that may help everyone with an unsatisfactory situation. Many of you may not know that a company I owned in 1995 invented the Online Dispute Resolution and Praise processes that are used today, in part, by Google, Amazon, PayPal, Yelp, and others. I am intimately familiar with these situations.

There are companies such as Yelp and Google that are better equipped than our group to handle Complaints or Praise. I urge you to use those.

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sun, Jul 4, 2021 at 12:33 PM Porter McRoberts via groups.io <portermcroberts=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Ken. 

Just so we’re clear: Bill Rouse receives no financial remuneration from vendor recommendations. 

The fact that he picks up the phone when I call him at odd hours from all over the world, takes the enormous amount of time to respond to me and others, and fights for Amel owners all without any financial gain other than the small retainer I sent him years ago sets him quite apart from most in the industry.  

I see him as about non-biased, yet enthusiastic as a person can get. 

Like you, I think honest reports are invaluable, and especially when coupled with emotionless facts. “Non-endorsements” are valuable, and perhaps more so than endorsements, but of course without the drivel that clouds the scenario. To that end, Bill does a remarkable job of keeping this forum right on track.  (go visit a Leopard forum for example, it’s like the Wild West.)

To be clear: He owns the forum because he foots the bill. Someone has to. 

Bill’s remarkable “product” is his fealty to solid information, and that only. He’s never sold sailors to vendors. 

Hope to share a beer with you someday, you’re a bit ahead of us geographically. Until then, cheers. 

Porter McRoberts 
S/V IBIS A54-152
WhatsApp:+1 754 265 2206

On Jul 5, 2021, at 4:37 AM, Paul Osterberg <osterberg.paul.l@...> wrote:

Ken,
Absolutely agree with you, booth good nd bad experiences are valuable to communicate.
Paul on SY Kerpa SM#259 on route to Porto Santo, Madeira 


Thomas Kleman
 

Kirstin and I have been active in this group for over 12 years. I'd say when we joined, there were 10-15 "old salts" answering most of the questions. There was ego, occasional drama, etc but by and large you could find the answer to your question. This incarnation of the forum is immeasurably better in that there is more information that is easier to access. It's a bit more "unipolar" in terms of where info comes from, without a doubt.

The important thing to us is transparency. Bill operates the site and has an Amel focused advisory business. The rules of the site are on the home page for everyone to see. Do we agree with these rules or this.arrangement ? Not important. So long as we know that the forum operates in this way, we can use it effectively. 

Tom and Kirstin
SV L'ORIENT
SM2K 422
Bora Bora


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Well said.

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 05 July 2021 at 07:11 Thomas Kleman <lorient422@...> wrote:

Kirstin and I have been active in this group for over 12 years. I'd say when we joined, there were 10-15 "old salts" answering most of the questions. There was ego, occasional drama, etc but by and large you could find the answer to your question. This incarnation of the forum is immeasurably better in that there is more information that is easier to access. It's a bit more "unipolar" in terms of where info comes from, without a doubt.

The important thing to us is transparency. Bill operates the site and has an Amel focused advisory business. The rules of the site are on the home page for everyone to see. Do we agree with these rules or this.arrangement ? Not important. So long as we know that the forum operates in this way, we can use it effectively. 

Tom and Kirstin
SV L'ORIENT
SM2K 422
Bora Bora


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Right with you on that Porter

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 05 July 2021 at 05:33 "Porter McRoberts via groups.io" <portermcroberts@...> wrote:

Ken. 

Just so we’re clear: Bill Rouse receives no financial remuneration from vendor recommendations. 

The fact that he picks up the phone when I call him at odd hours from all over the world, takes the enormous amount of time to respond to me and others, and fights for Amel owners all without a ny financial gain other than the small retainer I sent him years ago sets him quite apart from most in the industry.  

I see him as about non-biased, yet enthusiastic as a person can get. 

Like you, I think honest reports are invaluable, and especially when coupled with emotionless facts. “Non-endorsements” are valuable, and perhaps more so than endorsements, but of course without the drivel that clouds the scenario. To that end, Bill does a remarkable job of keeping this forum right on track.  (go visit a Leopard forum for example, it’s like the Wild West.)

To be clear: He owns the forum because he foots the bill. Someone has to. 

Bill’s remarkable “product” is his fealty to solid information, and that only. He’s never sold sailors to vendors. 

Hope to share a beer with you someday, you’re a bit ahead of us geographically. Until then, cheers. 

Porter McRoberts 
S/V IBIS A54-152
WhatsApp:+1 754 265 2206
Www.fouribis.net

On Jul 5, 2021, at 4:37 AM, Paul Osterberg <osterberg.paul.l@...> wrote:

Ken,
Absolutely agree with you, booth good nd bad experiences are valuable to communicate.
Paul on SY Kerpa SM#259 on route to Porto Santo, Madeira 


 


 


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Bill. As a 12 year veteran of this forum and one of the moderators I say you are doing a remarkable job and I have enormous respect for you

 You have my full support.

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 05 July 2021 at 05:14 CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

All concerned,

Because I do not want to see this group morph into the kind of group that is full of more drama than data, I answered Ken's posting privately because my answer included some personal information. 

However, I am honor-bound to respond publicly to the following statement since it was made in a public forum: 
Ken said, "Especially regarding a company that has financial ties to the Forum Owner."
I respect Ken and assume that he has been told something very untrue by someone. His statement saddens me very much. I take it personally as an affront to my ethics and honor. 

My response is that I have never requested or received any personal gain, reward, commission, or anything else from any vendor or anyone with regard to anything I do with the Amel Yacht Owners Group or with my clients and the Amel Owners Yacht School. I do not exchange favors of any sort with any vendor or anyone. I pride myself as an independent 3rd party in my relations with my clients and preferred vendors. 

Let's not continue this Topic thread.

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
 
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
 
View My Training Calendar


On Sun, Jul 4, 2021 at 3:37 AM Ken Powers SV Aquarius < ken@...> wrote:
I like the Amel Forum, and have been very happy to be a member.  But, I still believe that just about everything we write on this forum, is opinion.   Even the installation procedure of the BT Seals, seems to be opinion.  

I would like clarification on a few statements:
1. However, for as long as "I" own it, "our" group will not be the place to post these issues.  
2. Bill leads the idea of independence in thought and experience.

The first statement bags the question, WHO does own this group?   Bill has done a great job bringing the Amel owners together, and the group is a place where the owners collectively share ideas, trade experiences, and yes, share opinion.  The group COLLECTIVELY answers questions, and is a cool place to get information about our Amels, but the Amel Forum is not just One person.

A while ago I saw that a member asked the question, " Does anyone know a good marina around xxxxxx?".   After a question like that, the author is looking for opinion, and depending on who responds, the author can decide on how to use the response.   Let's say,  there is a rule ....  No member of the Amel Owners Group can write anything negative about a marina...  Members would be able to respond with only positive opinions about a marina,  and all negative responses will be discouraged and removed.  No one wants to be part of a group that bickers about this or that, but if the Amel Forum is a place to write positive opinions about a marina (or Supplier), then it must be a place to write negative responses.   

Let's say that 10 Amel owners have berthed at a marina, and were all overcharged for electricity, and then had to pay inflated bills.  The 10 owners are not able to write anything about the marina on the Amel Forum because they have nothing good to say, but Captan Joe has 900AH at 24V of LiFePO4 had wonderful things to say about the the marina because he didn't have to plug into shore power...  And, maybe Captain Joe also gets a 5% commission on every Amel that berths at the marina.   So, of coarse, Captain Joe sez wonderful things about the marina, and more Amel owners will go to the marina and have to pay inflated bills.  Does anything seem wrong with this?

Regarding contractors - 

I have QSails on Aquarius.  I am VERY happy with my sails, and have nothing but good things to say about the support I received from QSails.  On my YouTube channel I always say good things about my sails, all produced by QSails...  I have NEVER received any financial gain from QSails, and I paid full price for EVERYTHING I bought/received from QSails.  I promote products that in my opinion are just "Dam Good" products!  If a member wrote anything bad about QSails, I would definitely want to know what's up.  But, nothing bad can be written on the Forum.  Especially regarding a company that has financial ties to the Forum "Owner".   All that said, if I had to buy another Sail, right now, I would call QSails!  

Aquarius caught fire last week.  Yes, she could have burned to the ground.  This is no joke.  Some of you might smile, because if you have a YouTube channel, you know just how many HATTERS there are out there.  The following 24 hours was spent searching for the exact spot where that fire started.  I got exactly 2 hours of sleep that night because I was leave Thailand in 3 days.  I found the electrical connection where the fire started, and this connection was changed by an American Dude at the North end of Phuket one year ago.  The work completed by this guy/company was, in my opinion crap, and in my opinion created the problem that lead to a fire on Aquarius.  Almost everything he touched, except for the questionable connection was subsaquently changed by another electrician hired to clean up the previous electricians mess.   But, I should not warn the rest of the of the Forum about this guy, because we can't say anything negative about contractors.  But, he can sit on Aquarius explain how all the Thai's are all stupid, showing me how his Thai worker ruined a tool he used that day working on Aquarius.  I just asked him ....  If he is so stupid, what the XXXX is he doing on My Boat?

I also discussed my opinion of this electrical contractor with another Amel 54 owner that had work done by him.  That A54 owner confirmed my opinion of his services.

I am not sorry that my opinions are in opposition to the "Owner."  And, as a member, I would like the following rule change.   

1.  If a member writes a good comment or promotes a product or service, all financial ties should also be reviled.
2.  As long as a negative comment is in good taste, and not a personal attack, the negative comment should be tolerated.  If a member continually makes negative or makes personal attacks, the member may be removed from the Forum.  (Like I may be for these statements)

If, because I disagree with the "Owner", I am removed, so be it.

Ken Powers
Aquarius SM2K#262



 

 


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 


Hi all, 

As one of the moderators for the forum I offer my view regarding the rule about negative comments. "Without the ability of the other  to respond" is the critical phrase. There are always two sides to any debate. There are people who have good experiences with a contractor while  others have the reverse with the same company. Yet this is the same firm. Like it or not we as owners can at times be less than perfect. Actually some of us at times can be downright difficult to deal with. Fact of life. Hence the rule. I am not saying bad experiences are our own fault, of course not but there are two sides and to only hear one is unfair. But then to try and have the forum litigate disputes between owners and contractors would be utterly  destructive.

So I think there are very good reasons for the rule and we need to follow it.

We can still provide helpful advice by recommending places we have had good service from.

Likewise I have been disappointed with the negative stuff directed at Bill.

Easy target as he rides the flow from a group of over a thousand fiercely independant individuals and works to give us the most positive forum there is out there. Not easy.

So folks, take care. We have something none of us want to lose.

Danny Simms

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

Mangonui

New Zealand

04 July 2021 at 20:37 Ken Powers SV Aquarius <ken@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

I like the Amel Forum, and have been very happy to be a member.  But, I still believe that just about everything we write on this forum, is opinion.   Even the installation procedure of the BT Seals, seems to be opinion.  

I would like clarification on a few statements:
1. However, for as long as "I" own it, "our" group will not be the place to post these issues.  
2. Bill leads the idea of independence in thought and experience.

The first statement bags the question, WHO does own this group?   Bill has done a great job bringing the Amel owners together, and the group is a place where the owners collectively share ideas, trade experiences, and yes, share opinion.  The group COLLECTIVELY answers questions, and is a cool place to get information about our Amels, but the Amel Forum is not just One person.

A while ago I saw that a member asked the question, " Does anyone know a good marina around xxxxxx?".   After a question like that, the author is looking for opinion, and depending on who responds, the author can decide on how to use the response.   Let's say,  there is a rule ....  No member of the Amel Owners Group can write anything negative about a marina...  Members would be able to respond with only positive opinions about a marina,  and all negative responses will be discouraged and removed.  No one wants to be part of a group that bickers about this or that, but if the Amel Forum is a place to write positive opinions about a marina (or Supplier), then it must be a place to write negative responses.   

Let's say that 10 Amel owners have berthed at a marina, and were all overcharged for electricity, and then had to pay inflated bills.  The 10 owners are not able to write anything about the marina on the Amel Forum because they have nothing good to say, but Captan Joe has 900AH at 24V of LiFePO4 had wonderful things to say about the the marina because he didn't have to plug into shore power...  And, maybe Captain Joe also gets a 5% commission on every Amel that berths at the marina.   So, of coarse, Captain Joe sez wonderful things about the marina, and more Amel owners will go to the marina and have to pay inflated bills.  Does anything seem wrong with this?

Regarding contractors - 

I have QSails on Aquarius.  I am VERY happy with my sails, and have nothing but good things to say about the support I received from QSails.  On my YouTube channel I always say good things about my sails, all produced by QSails...  I have NEVER received any financial gain from QSails, and I paid full price for EVERYTHING I bought/received from QSails.  I promote products that in my opinion are just "Dam Good" products!  If a member wrote anything bad about QSails, I would definitely want to know what's up.  But, nothing bad can be written on the Forum.  Especially regarding a company that potentially has financial ties to the Forum "Owner".   All that said, if I had to buy another Sail, right now, I would call QSails!  

Aquarius caught fire last week.  Yes, she could have burned to the ground.  This is no joke.  Some of you might smile, because if you have a YouTube channel, you know just how many HATTERS there are out there.  The following 24 hours was spent searching for the exact spot where that fire started.  I got exactly 2 hours of sleep that night because I was leave Thailand in 3 days.  I found the electrical connection where the fire started, and this connection was changed by an American Dude at the North end of Phuket one year ago.  The work completed by this guy/company was, in my opinion crap, and in my opinion created the problem that lead to a fire on Aquarius.  Almost everything he touched, except for the questionable connection was subsaquently changed by another electrician hired to clean up the previous electricians mess.   But, I should not warn the rest of the of the Forum about this guy, because we can't say anything negative about contractors.  But, he can sit on Aquarius explain how all the Thai's are all stupid, showing me how his Thai worker ruined a tool he used that day working on Aquarius.  I just asked him ....  If he is so stupid, what the XXXX is he doing on My Boat?

I also discussed my opinion of this electrical contractor with another Amel 54 owner that had work done by him.  That A54 owner confirmed my opinion of his services.

I am not sorry that my opinions are in opposition to the "Owner."  And, as a member, I would like the following rule change.   

1.  If a member writes a good comment or promotes a product or service, all financial ties should also be reviled.
2.  As long as a negative comment is in good taste, and not a personal attack, the negative comment should be tolerated.  If a member continually makes negative or makes personal attacks, the member may be removed from the Forum.  (Like I may be for these statements)

If, because I disagree with the "Owner", I am removed, so be it.

Ken Powers
Aquarius SM2K#262