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  2. [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Bilge maintenance

[Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Bilge maintenance

Dan Carlson
 

Hi all,  reviewing this past thread on bilge maintenance.

I am wondering if anyone has tried one of the enzymatic drain maintenance products?


My dad used to be a big fan of one of these products at his home, but I did not experiment with it much.  I believe it is supposed to be friendly to plumbing.  

Always looking for ideas to extend the grey water sump/bilge cleaning cycle.

Thanks and regards, Dan Carlson, SM #387, sv BeBe .



On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 2:56 AM, jhe1313@... [amelyachtowners]
 

Hi everyone.  I have put into the bilge one waterglass of vinegar per week recently.  It has definitely reduced the smell in the engine room and there is no appreciable smell anymore in the cabins.  So this seems the way to go although I suspect I have to increase the dosage if the outside temperatures are in the 30s vs the low 20s now.  Many thanks again everyone for the great help!  Joerg


Joerg Esdorn
Kincsem
Amel 55 no. 53
Currently in Zakinthos, Greece
Jean-Pierre's MacBook Air <jgermain@...>
 

Hi Gang,

The main ingredient to keeping your AMEL sweet smelling is not to let any”ingredient” go down the galley sinks.

You must become a fanatic of food remains removal from all dishes to be washed.  My 30 year old boat (almost) is always sweet smelling because I am a food waste nazi.. never any bit of food waste in the sinks.

I clean out my bilges by adding a small quantity of bleach to a white wash during washing machine operation.  I also only use liquid shower gels.

“Cleanliness is next to Godliness”….

Merry Christmas


Jean-Pierre Germain
SY Eleuthera, SM007,
Panama




On 25 Dec 2017, at 12:22, 'dancarlson367@...' dancarlson367@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Hi all,  reviewing this past thread on bilge maintenance.


I am wondering if anyone has tried one of the enzymatic drain maintenance products?


My dad used to be a big fan of one of these products at his home, but I did not experiment with it much.  I believe it is supposed to be friendly to plumbing.  

Always looking for ideas to extend the grey water sump/bilge cleaning cycle.

Thanks and regards, Dan Carlson, SM #387, sv BeBe .



 

Hi everyone.  I have put into the bilge one waterglass of vinegar per week recently.  It has definitely reduced the smell in the engine room and there is no appreciable smell anymore in the cabins.  So this seems the way to go although I suspect I have to increase the dosage if the outside temperatures are in the 30s vs the low 20s now.  Many thanks again everyone for the great help!  Joerg


Joerg Esdorn
Kincsem
Amel 55 no. 53
Currently in Zakinthos, Greece
greatketch@...
 

We don't have any trouble with the bilge smell in the boat, for two reasons.  

We are not terribly fussy about what goes down the drain, but we do always was dishes with the strainer in the drain.  We also have a sink trap that catches other "chunks" under the sink in the galley. I wouldn't say we were any more careful about this than we would be in home without a garbage grinder.

We also have "U" traps made of three elbows and tubing where the drains empty into the sump.  Always full of water, they prevent the backup of any engine room odors into the cabin.

Bleach is something I don't use on the boat at all.  It is just too corrosive to too many things.

I clean the sump when it looks like it has accumulated enough "gunk" to need it.  It's not very often it needs it. I look whenever I am in the engine room, but I don't have the cleaning on my routine maintenance schedule.  

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Key West, FL
Patrick McAneny
 

Bill, Since you don't use bleach , what if anything do you put in your water tank to reduce bacteria growth .
Happy Holidays,
Pat SM #123


-----Original Message-----
From: greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Mon, Dec 25, 2017 3:34 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Bilge maintenance

 
We don't have any trouble with the bilge smell in the boat, for two reasons.  

We are not terribly fussy about what goes down the drain, but we do always was dishes with the strainer in the drain.  We also have a sink trap that catches other "chunks" under the sink in the galley. I wouldn't say we were any more careful about this than we would be in home without a garbage grinder.

We also have "U" traps made of three elbows and tubing where the drains empty into the sump.  Always full of water, they prevent the backup of any engine room odors into the cabin.

Bleach is something I don't use on the boat at all.  It is just too corrosive to too many things.

I clean the sump when it looks like it has accumulated enough "gunk" to need it.  It's not very often it needs it. I look whenever I am in the engin e room, but I don't have the cleaning on my routine maintenance schedule.  

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Key West, FL
greatketch@...
 

We never add anything to the fresh water tanks, except RO water.  We avoid running the RO system in harbors, and any place we even suspect might be polluted. We routinely keep the tank as near to full as we can.  The only exception has been when we are in a boatyard for longer than a tank of water lasts, we eventually have to break down and put tap water in.

If I was anyplace I worried about any kind of pathogen in the source water, I'd break my own "rules" and would chlorinate the tank just to be safe.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Key West, FL

---In amelyachtowners@..., <sailw32@...> wrote :

Bill, Since you don't use bleach , what if anything do you put in your water tank to reduce bacteria growth .
Happy Holidays,
Pat SM #123
Mohammad Shirloo
 

Hi All;
 
We also only use desalinated water in the fresh water tank. We empty out completely when we leave her for the winter.
 
As far as concerns about pollution in the water where we are running the desalinate, I talked to Martin at Dessalator when we initially purchased our 54 to find out exactly where we could use it to have safe fresh water. Martin has been at Dessalator tech department for a long time and is extremely knowledgeable about their systems. He assured me that the unit can be used almost anywhere and that the filtration is so fine that bacteria and even viruses would not go through. He mentioned that we simply clog up the pre-filters quicker by using it in water that has contaminants.
 
We have used ours in harbors and marinas without any issues. We regularly check the quality of the water and we are usually in the 220 PPM range. I believe the safe water level is 500 PPM. I guess I never asked if it makes a difference what the "parts" are.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad Shirloo
323-633-2222 Cell
310-644-0903 Fax
 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2017 6:29 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Bilge maintenance

 

We never add anything to the fresh water tanks, except RO water.  We avoid running the RO system in harbors, and any place we even suspect might be polluted. We routinely keep the tank as near to full as we can.  The only exception has been when we are in a boatyard for longer than a tank of water lasts, we eventually have to break down and put tap water in.

If I was anyplace I worried about any kind of pathogen in the source water, I'd break my own "rules" and would chlorinate the tank just to be safe.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Key West, FL

---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Bill, Since you don't use bleach , what if anything do you put in your water tank to reduce bacteria growth .
Happy Holidays,
Pat SM #123
greatketch@...
 

I agree with the Dessalator rep that RO processing can remove essentially all bacteria and viruses. 

The problem is you can only be SURE that it will if you run a bubble point test to make sure there are zero faults in the membranes, seals, and housings. When I used RO membranes in the phamra business to make sterile water we had to test them every membrane change and maintenance cycle.  They did not always pass.

This is why my Dessalator manual recommends adding chlorine to the tank--just in case.

When I have been in crowded harbors with the possibility of sewage contamination there has never been a pressing reason I HAD to run the water maker.  I just wait until I am somewhere safer. We tend not to stay in places like that for very long!  If for some reason I had to make water, I would add chlorine to the tank, and then not worry about it.

My basic rule is: If I would not swim in the water, I don't make drinking water out of it--even if the RO unit SHOULD be able to do it safely. The risk of having a serious problem is very, very small, but it is still one I don't need to take, so why? 

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Key West, FL


---In amelyachtowners@..., <mshirloo@...> wrote :

Hi All;
 
We also only use desalinated water in the fresh water tank. We empty out completely when we leave her for the winter.
 
As far as concerns about pollution in the water where we are running the desalinate, I talked to Martin at Dessalator when we initially purchased our 54 to find out exactly where we could use it to have safe fresh water. Martin has been at Dessalator tech department for a long time and is extremely knowledgeable about their systems. He assured me that the unit can be used almost anywhere and that the filtration is so fine that bacteria and even viruses would not go through. He mentioned that we simply clog up the pre-filters quicker by using it in water that has contaminants.
 
We have used ours in harbors and marinas without any issues. We regularly check the quality of the water and we are usually in the 220 PPM range. I believe the safe water level is 500 PPM. I guess I never asked if it makes a difference what the "parts" are.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad Shirloo
323-633-2222 Cell
310-644-0903 Fax
 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2017 6:29 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Bilge maintenance

 

We never add anything to the fresh water tanks, except RO water.  We avoid running the RO system in harbors, and any place we even suspect might be polluted. We routinely keep the tank as near to full as we can.  The only exception has been when we are in a boatyard for longer than a tank of water lasts, we eventually have to break down and put tap water in.

If I was anyplace I worried about any kind of pathogen in the source water, I'd break my own "rules" and would chlorinate the tank just to be safe.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Key West, FL

---In amelyachtowners@..., <sailw32@...> wrote :

Bill, Since you don't use bleach , what if anything do you put in your water tank to reduce bacteria growth .
Happy Holidays,
Pat SM #123
Stefan Jeukendrup
 

Even a bilge cleanup every 2 months could not avoid periodic bilge/oil/diesel smell, mainly in the aft cabin.
But no longer.,...free of it for the past 2 years and the bilge cleaning regime is back to 1 year.

These 4 changes together helped:
* use a coarse strainer in all showers and sinks to catch the solids 
* use paper towels to remove ALL grease and oil before washing the dishes and pans
* repair of a pinhole in the wet exhaust of the engine
* mounting a siphon in series with the white hose from the aft shower drain to the bilge, see picture



For me the last point is a safety issue too: a water filled siphon stops any engine room fumes from reaching the aft cabin.
(e.g. broken engine room extractor fans, leak in the exhaust system)

But as always, we have to be very carefull with non factory modifications.....looking forward to any comments you may have.


Stefan Jeukendrup
sv Malaka Queen
SM2K #348 @Newry, Northern Ireland
CW Bill Rouse
 

I am going to go into detail in this response because I believe there are some things that everyone needs to hear regarding your modification.  I intend no offense to anyone. I certainly do not mean to "preach from above!"

All of the following is based on 40,000 miles and 11 years full-time on a SM. It reflects my opinions based on my experience for those 11 years coupled with my experience with over 300 Amel owners with over 300 Amels.

First, the easy one: Based on your hull number, you have a 4JH3 Yanmar engine. The weakest point of failure on that engine is the wet exhaust elbow. You should order an HDI cast stainless steel elbow. It costs less and will last longer than your engine. You said you repaired the Yanmar. In my experience, TIG welding is a short-term fix. Replace it.
image.png
image.png


Second, your plumbing modification: 
I believe that it was the first two items that solved your problem. 
* use a coarse strainer in all showers and sinks to catch the solids 
* use paper towels to remove ALL grease and oil before washing the dishes and pans
What you installed is referred to as an Odor Trap or P-Trap on this side of the Atlantic. It is always installed with a vent to the roof in buildings.  It will block odor from the engine room in calm conditions, but will not block odor in conditions with the boat moving. What you installed will very likely trap water in the shower drain line between the shower and the gray water sump. It isn't necessarily an issue if you use it daily, but will become an issue if you do not. The soap in the water will sour and the water will become stagnant smelling worse than before, venting that odor back to the shower and sink. Also, if your boat is in a freezing climate, this will be one more thing to winterize. In addition to all of that, soapy shower water that lays still will create a slimy stinky scum that will be a challenge to clean inside your new plumbing. I always say that Henri Amel made his boats in such a way that he protected the owners from many failures. I think that you added a failure point and you should monitor this closely. Also, if you leave this in place, BE SURE to disclose this when selling your boat because I see too many owners new to Amel trust Henri's design only to find out later that it was modified by a well-intentioned previous owner.

Third: I trust that you have a Carbon Monoxide Detector on your boat along with a smoke detector. If not, you should install one.


image.png

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   

On Thu, Jun 23, 2022 at 5:03 AM Stefan Jeukendrup <sjeukendrup@...> wrote:
Even a bilge cleanup every 2 months could not avoid periodic bilge/oil/diesel smell, mainly in the aft cabin.
But no longer.,...free of it for the past 2 years and the bilge cleaning regime is back to 1 year.

These 4 changes together helped:
* use a coarse strainer in all showers and sinks to catch the solids 
* use paper towels to remove ALL grease and oil before washing the dishes and pans
* repair of a pinhole in the wet exhaust of the engine
* mounting a siphon in series with the white hose from the aft shower drain to the bilge, see picture



For me the last point is a safety issue too: a water filled siphon stops any engine room fumes from reaching the aft cabin.
(e.g. broken engine room extractor fans, leak in the exhaust system)

But as always, we have to be very carefull with non factory modifications.....looking forward to any comments you may have.


Stefan Jeukendrup
sv Malaka Queen
SM2K #348 @Newry, Northern Ireland

Matt Salatino
 

We add Hydrogen Peroxide to our water tank when we’re leave the boat for any amount of time. 
karkauai
 

How much H²0² Matt?  Does it keep the tanks from getting growth? Do you flush the tanks when you get back to the boat?

Is it bad for the watermaker membranes?

Thanks
Kent
SM 243
Keisty

--
Kent & Iris
KRISTY
SM243
Matt Salatino
 

We leave approx. 1/4 tank of water, maybe less. The n affect about 200 ml of H2O2, just before leaving the boat. We wait a bit, then ruin each faucet for a minute, and flush our toilets (fresh water). Peroxide is an oxidizer and kills the nasties. It’s highly reactive, so within a couple of months, it just reverts to water. Won’t hurt the Watermaker. 
Stefan Jeukendrup
 

Many thanks to Matt for the H2O2 suggestion and to Bill for the detailed answers and sharing your vast experience to us all.

The trapseal is actually just 4 PVC plumbing elbows, as in a post by another knowledgable member of this forum. Indeed a real syphon of the type Amel has mounted under the galley sink will perform much better underway and of cause this needs to be maintained.


I guess the underlying question will be difficult to answer:

Why does an Amel SM engine room has open connections to the living spaces?

Just for simplicity as Bill says?



Stefan Jeukendrup

sv Malaka Queen

SM2k #348 @Newry, Northern Ireland
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