Topics

[Amel Yacht Owners] Super Maramu 2000 Dodgers

Anne-Sophie Schmitt <nearlynothing@...>
 

Thank you for the suggestion. I want something more
substantial however. Perhaps it is the fact that I
sail in cold seas as well as warm. Thanks again.
Claude Roessiger
--- hollambyuk <hollamby@...> wrote:
Since 1989 we have lived and cruised as far as
Australia in our old
boat,an Oyster 435 from which we switched Bali Hai
No 319 early last
year,this was a vast improvement over the slow leaky
Oyster. Since
then we have sailed to the Med and been in a force
10 storm with no
problems.
We have no problems with the windscreen design.A
piece of wood one
inch by two inches by six will prop the window open
as required.
So far as the bimini top is concerned Amel
retrofitted (welded) clear
panels in the front and centre sections of the
Vynil.If we had known
this would have been a free or low cost item but
there is a lot of
time involved in taking the frame off.We then made
up a white plastic
patch which is attached to the underside with Velcro
so that it can
be removed as necessary. It works very well.



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
http://launch.yahoo.com

lionel_marais <lionel_marais@...>
 

I am not an Amel Yacht owner yet, but I have been aiming for several
years at becoming a Super Maramu owner, one of the very few boats I
would consider changing to from our beloved Endurance 35. As decision
time comes closer (meaning as cumulative savings make it feasible to
consider a jump from dream world to reality) one has to consider in
details advantages and drawbacks of various options within the
limited selection of boats and within the possible specifications for
each model. This is obviously not the purpose of the amelyachtowners
site, but I am glad to find here feedback from more enthusiastic
owners with years of sailing experience than I could ever meet.

The dodger/bimini/awning question keeps creeping back when comparing
boats, and it is apparently one question for which some Super Maramu
owners have found various solutions with various degrees of
satisfaction. Amel themselves have altered the design raising the
back, and offering to cut clear windows in the vinyl… but these
alterations come short of offering a real alternative to the fully
open cockpit with temporary vinyl-canvas shelter. Other boat builders
like Hallberg Rassy (http://www.hallberg-rassy.se) (see Hallberg
Rassy yachts 53 and 62) offer a choice, for the same model: either
dodger / bimini or hard top / dog house. Whichever you choose I feel
that you are more likely to live happily with it when it is your
deliberate choice. Furthermore if experience or time have you change
your mind, the option remains, down the line, to replace
these "appendices".

The most recent Amel design appears to have reached an optimum for
the dodger/bimini solution, in terms of balance between visibility
through the windows and above, headroom… leaving little hope of
finding, on that route, any cure for the inherent drawbacks you
mentioned together with a few others like blocking the view forward
when you stand in the cockpit and you are not way above 2 meters tall…

The dimensions of the Super Maramu cockpit seem to present a perfect
base for a hard top solution taking advantage in full of the head
room available in the cockpit below the main sail boom.
This would allow three large windows as you suggest, thus greatly
improving the view forward. (Modern materials have allowed boat
builders to design windows much larger than these, and still able to
withstand battering from the sea in more exposed positions on multi-
hulls)
To add strength and because of the proximity of the main sail sheet,
I would have the middle window not opening. (Your windshield wiper
could be installed on it).
The opening of the other two windows may be along a horizontal axis
at the middle of the windows if a hinge at the top has the windows
protruding too much forward and interfering with the main sail sheet
and its pulley block. (You may even have to cut the windows in half
with only the upper half opening, which would not be as good).
The lateral windows could be half opening (sliding).
In addition to being a much better support for larger clear top
windows/openings as you suggest, a hard top extending all the way to
the mizzen mast could me made very strong with some attachment to the
mast, without the need for thick reinforcement. (We seek shelter from
the sun but would also like to keep as much shelter as possible in
bad weather when vinyl-canvas extensions may have to be taken down).
A complete cockpit hard top cover would improve safety (no weird
angle) when going in and out of the cockpit. There is plenty of
height, as can be experienced with the present bimini, for a
continuous hard top not to present any significant hindrance: hand-
rails properly positioned on top would even help when moving about.
This roof could be a good support for solar panels.
Complete closure of the cockpit would certainly be easier to design
and attach on a fix structure, adding a proper temporary deck saloon
to the living space.
This hard top being an added piece could be removed without too much
additional fuss, if need be, for engine or generator removal.
Having done some touch up on drawings and photos, I think the overall
silhouette could be quite pleasant.

I would be very interested to know whether and how you bring your
ideas to fruition or if you give up, why you give up.

--- In amelyachtowners@y..., Anne-Sophie Schmitt <nearlynothing@y...>
wrote:
Thank you for the suggestion. I want something more
substantial however. Perhaps it is the fact that I
sail in cold seas as well as warm. Thanks again.
Claude Roessiger
--- hollambyuk <hollamby@c...> wrote:
Since 1989 we have lived and cruised as far as
Australia in our old
boat,an Oyster 435 from which we switched Bali Hai
No 319 early last
year,this was a vast improvement over the slow leaky
Oyster. Since
then we have sailed to the Med and been in a force
10 storm with no
problems.
We have no problems with the windscreen design.A
piece of wood one
inch by two inches by six will prop the window open
as required.
So far as the bimini top is concerned Amel
retrofitted (welded) clear
panels in the front and centre sections of the
Vynil.If we had known
this would have been a free or low cost item but
there is a lot of
time involved in taking the frame off.We then made
up a white plastic
patch which is attached to the underside with Velcro
so that it can
be removed as necessary. It works very well.



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
http://launch.yahoo.com

Anne-Sophie Schmitt <nearlynothing@...>
 

After considerable thought I have chosen a simpler
solution. Of course a complete new unit can be well
built, and aesthetically designed. But, to do it
right, it is a very expensive proposition, by my
estimates USD 20,000. minimum, likely more. And, there
are various fit issues which develop from almost any
"100% hardtop" solution chosen. So, I have a proposal
from a sailmaker/awningmaker to make a new extensible
dodger, retaining the Amel windscreen and hard dodger
portion. The new dodger will:
1. Be much more rigid, "taught" if you will.
2. Continue the windscreen line directly, by fitting a
new attachment extrusion at the forward line of the
windscreen.
3. Rise up immediately to the full dodger height--only
attained in the aftmost bow on the Amel design--and
incorporate two narrow horizontal windows above the
Amel windscreen windows, giving improved forward
visibility.
4. Incorporate a mainsail sight window in the roof
with a sun shade.
5. Allow the collapsing of this new dodger almost as
completely as the Amel design, although it will of
necessity collapse above the point of the Amel dodger.
6. Fit a much stronger aft bow, as the Amel aft bow no
doubt suffices for the dodger but not for the habit of
people to use it to hang on to at sea.
7. Of necessity fit a new "forward-most" bow to
support the more forward position of the new dodger.
8. Be made of double-layer canvas.
This will be done for about USD 2500., and I believe
it will give 80% of what a hard dodger conversion
might have given. Moreover, if I wish to return the
boat to "factory original" it will be an easy thing.
This leaves the window problem. I think I will solve
it very simply, as Amel had already solved it on the
Maramu/Mango, with a "window within the window" which
allows visibility and ventilation.
If the details are unclear please let me know and I'll
be glad to clarify them. Best regards, Claude
Roessiger
--- lionel_marais <lionel_marais@...> wrote:
I am not an Amel Yacht owner yet, but I have been
aiming for several
years at becoming a Super Maramu owner, one of the
very few boats I
would consider changing to from our beloved
Endurance 35. As decision
time comes closer (meaning as cumulative savings
make it feasible to
consider a jump from dream world to reality) one has
to consider in
details advantages and drawbacks of various options
within the
limited selection of boats and within the possible
specifications for
each model. This is obviously not the purpose of the
amelyachtowners
site, but I am glad to find here feedback from more
enthusiastic
owners with years of sailing experience than I could
ever meet.

The dodger/bimini/awning question keeps creeping
back when comparing
boats, and it is apparently one question for which
some Super Maramu
owners have found various solutions with various
degrees of
satisfaction. Amel themselves have altered the
design raising the
back, and offering to cut clear windows in the
vinyl but these
alterations come short of offering a real
alternative to the fully
open cockpit with temporary vinyl-canvas shelter.
Other boat builders
like Hallberg Rassy (http://www.hallberg-rassy.se)
(see Hallberg
Rassy yachts 53 and 62) offer a choice, for the same
model: either
dodger / bimini or hard top / dog house. Whichever
you choose I feel
that you are more likely to live happily with it
when it is your
deliberate choice. Furthermore if experience or time
have you change
your mind, the option remains, down the line, to
replace
these "appendices".

The most recent Amel design appears to have reached
an optimum for
the dodger/bimini solution, in terms of balance
between visibility
through the windows and above, headroom leaving
little hope of
finding, on that route, any cure for the inherent
drawbacks you
mentioned together with a few others like blocking
the view forward
when you stand in the cockpit and you are not way
above 2 meters tall

The dimensions of the Super Maramu cockpit seem to
present a perfect
base for a hard top solution taking advantage in
full of the head
room available in the cockpit below the main sail
boom.
This would allow three large windows as you suggest,
thus greatly
improving the view forward. (Modern materials have
allowed boat
builders to design windows much larger than these,
and still able to
withstand battering from the sea in more exposed
positions on multi-
hulls)
To add strength and because of the proximity of the
main sail sheet,
I would have the middle window not opening. (Your
windshield wiper
could be installed on it).
The opening of the other two windows may be along a
horizontal axis
at the middle of the windows if a hinge at the top
has the windows
protruding too much forward and interfering with the
main sail sheet
and its pulley block. (You may even have to cut the
windows in half
with only the upper half opening, which would not be
as good).
The lateral windows could be half opening (sliding).
In addition to being a much better support for
larger clear top
windows/openings as you suggest, a hard top
extending all the way to
the mizzen mast could me made very strong with some
attachment to the
mast, without the need for thick reinforcement. (We
seek shelter from
the sun but would also like to keep as much shelter
as possible in
bad weather when vinyl-canvas extensions may have to
be taken down).
A complete cockpit hard top cover would improve
safety (no weird
angle) when going in and out of the cockpit. There
is plenty of
height, as can be experienced with the present
bimini, for a
continuous hard top not to present any significant
hindrance: hand-
rails properly positioned on top would even help
when moving about.
This roof could be a good support for solar panels.
Complete closure of the cockpit would certainly be
easier to design
and attach on a fix structure, adding a proper
temporary deck saloon
to the living space.
This hard top being an added piece could be removed
without too much
additional fuss, if need be, for engine or generator
removal.
Having done some touch up on drawings and photos, I
think the overall
silhouette could be quite pleasant.

I would be very interested to know whether and how
you bring your
ideas to fruition or if you give up, why you give
up.

--- In amelyachtowners@y..., Anne-Sophie Schmitt
<nearlynothing@y...>
wrote:
Thank you for the suggestion. I want something
more
substantial however. Perhaps it is the fact that I
sail in cold seas as well as warm. Thanks again.
Claude Roessiger
--- hollambyuk <hollamby@c...> wrote:
Since 1989 we have lived and cruised as far as
Australia in our old
boat,an Oyster 435 from which we switched Bali
Hai
No 319 early last
year,this was a vast improvement over the slow
leaky
Oyster. Since
then we have sailed to the Med and been in a
force
10 storm with no
problems.
We have no problems with the windscreen design.A
piece of wood one
inch by two inches by six will prop the window
open
as required.
So far as the bimini top is concerned Amel
retrofitted (welded) clear
panels in the front and centre sections of the
Vynil.If we had known
this would have been a free or low cost item but
there is a lot of
time involved in taking the frame off.We then
made
up a white plastic
patch which is attached to the underside with
Velcro
so that it can
be removed as necessary. It works very well.



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
http://launch.yahoo.com

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

Krassopoulos Dimitris <dkra@...>
 

It is very interesting to receive e-mail from non Amel owner but believe me
that you first to sail in an Amel to understand the boat.
No there is no need for a hard top on the SM 2000. The design is absolute ok
depending ofcource of your sail area. If you planning to sail in the
Antarctica it is necessary but as a comprise for the main sailing
destinations is the optimum. The Hallberg Rassy hard top is necessary for
Scandinavian sailing but not for mediteranean or tropical conditions. When
you install the two new designed side screens is absolutely dry even with
high seas and comfortable as a hardtop and ofcource foldable when the
conditions allow it.The handles installed on the hard part are very useful
to step out. The awning extension for sun protection is very well designed
and very easily installed.
My only suggestion to Amel would be to make the second windscreen also
openable as the drivers windscreen I really do not understand why they do
not make the design symmetrical.

Best Regards

Dimitris Krassopoulos
S/Y Alma Libre
www.almalibre.gr <http://www.almalibre.gr>

-----Original Message-----
From: lionel_marais [mailto:lionel_marais@...]
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2002 3:28 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Super Maramu 2000 Dodgers


I am not an Amel Yacht owner yet, but I have been aiming for several
years at becoming a Super Maramu owner, one of the very few boats I
would consider changing to from our beloved Endurance 35. As decision
time comes closer (meaning as cumulative savings make it feasible to
consider a jump from dream world to reality) one has to consider in
details advantages and drawbacks of various options within the
limited selection of boats and within the possible specifications for
each model. This is obviously not the purpose of the amelyachtowners
site, but I am glad to find here feedback from more enthusiastic
owners with years of sailing experience than I could ever meet.

The dodger/bimini/awning question keeps creeping back when comparing
boats, and it is apparently one question for which some Super Maramu
owners have found various solutions with various degrees of
satisfaction. Amel themselves have altered the design raising the
back, and offering to cut clear windows in the vinyl... but these
alterations come short of offering a real alternative to the fully
open cockpit with temporary vinyl-canvas shelter. Other boat builders
like Hallberg Rassy (http://www.hallberg-rassy.se)
<http://www.hallberg-rassy.se)> (see Hallberg
Rassy yachts 53 and 62) offer a choice, for the same model: either
dodger / bimini or hard top / dog house. Whichever you choose I feel
that you are more likely to live happily with it when it is your
deliberate choice. Furthermore if experience or time have you change
your mind, the option remains, down the line, to replace
these "appendices".

The most recent Amel design appears to have reached an optimum for
the dodger/bimini solution, in terms of balance between visibility
through the windows and above, headroom... leaving little hope of
finding, on that route, any cure for the inherent drawbacks you
mentioned together with a few others like blocking the view forward
when you stand in the cockpit and you are not way above 2 meters tall...

The dimensions of the Super Maramu cockpit seem to present a perfect
base for a hard top solution taking advantage in full of the head
room available in the cockpit below the main sail boom.
This would allow three large windows as you suggest, thus greatly
improving the view forward. (Modern materials have allowed boat
builders to design windows much larger than these, and still able to
withstand battering from the sea in more exposed positions on multi-
hulls)
To add strength and because of the proximity of the main sail sheet,
I would have the middle window not opening. (Your windshield wiper
could be installed on it).
The opening of the other two windows may be along a horizontal axis
at the middle of the windows if a hinge at the top has the windows
protruding too much forward and interfering with the main sail sheet
and its pulley block. (You may even have to cut the windows in half
with only the upper half opening, which would not be as good).
The lateral windows could be half opening (sliding).
In addition to being a much better support for larger clear top
windows/openings as you suggest, a hard top extending all the way to
the mizzen mast could me made very strong with some attachment to the
mast, without the need for thick reinforcement. (We seek shelter from
the sun but would also like to keep as much shelter as possible in
bad weather when vinyl-canvas extensions may have to be taken down).
A complete cockpit hard top cover would improve safety (no weird
angle) when going in and out of the cockpit. There is plenty of
height, as can be experienced with the present bimini, for a
continuous hard top not to present any significant hindrance: hand-
rails properly positioned on top would even help when moving about.
This roof could be a good support for solar panels.
Complete closure of the cockpit would certainly be easier to design
and attach on a fix structure, adding a proper temporary deck saloon
to the living space.
This hard top being an added piece could be removed without too much
additional fuss, if need be, for engine or generator removal.
Having done some touch up on drawings and photos, I think the overall
silhouette could be quite pleasant.

I would be very interested to know whether and how you bring your
ideas to fruition or if you give up, why you give up.

--- In amelyachtowners@y..., Anne-Sophie Schmitt <nearlynothing@y...>
wrote:
Thank you for the suggestion. I want something more
substantial however. Perhaps it is the fact that I
sail in cold seas as well as warm. Thanks again.
Claude Roessiger
--- hollambyuk <hollamby@c...> wrote:
Since 1989 we have lived and cruised as far as
Australia in our old
boat,an Oyster 435 from which we switched Bali Hai
No 319 early last
year,this was a vast improvement over the slow leaky
Oyster. Since
then we have sailed to the Med and been in a force
10 storm with no
problems.
We have no problems with the windscreen design.A
piece of wood one
inch by two inches by six will prop the window open
as required.
So far as the bimini top is concerned Amel
retrofitted (welded) clear
panels in the front and centre sections of the
Vynil.If we had known
this would have been a free or low cost item but
there is a lot of
time involved in taking the frame off.We then made
up a white plastic
patch which is attached to the underside with Velcro
so that it can
be removed as necessary. It works very well.



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
http://launch.yahoo.com <http://launch.yahoo.com>


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

ADVERTISEMENT



<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=212804.2460941.3878106.2273195/D=egroupweb/S=17050657
92:HM/A=810373/R=0/*http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info?.refer=blrecs>
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=212804.2460941.3878106.2273195/D=egroupweb/S=17050657
92:HM/A=810373/R=1/*http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info?.refer=blrecs>

<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=212804.2460941.3878106.2273195/D=egroupmai
l/S=:HM/A=810373/rand=533701469>

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
amelyachtowners-unsubscribe@...



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .