Topics

Anchor sizing


Bryce Procter
 

At the risk of opening a hornets nest I am replacing my 30kg Wasi Bugle anchor with one of the newer breed of anchors. My query is not about which brand or shackles or style though rather sizing.
Assuming the following that the boat is usually fully loaded for extended cruising so in the heavier weight range, occasionally left alone at anchor normally for no more than a day or two though in these times anything is possible;100m of chain, varying bottom types, don't intend to carry a dedicated "storm" anchor etc etc. Based on these and the endless other variables does anyone have any advice or thoughts on the best size/weight?
I have seen SM's being swapped out with anywhere from 30kg to 45kg Rocnas, Mantus or other newer style anchors. One piece of advice I read sometime ago was that if the other yachties at the dock aren't laughing at your anchor it's not big enough!
Cheers

Bryce
SM 2K #467


Randall
 

If you don't want to ever end up on youtube for the wrong reason, bigger is better. Your Wasi was chosen by Amel as a good size and would do fine. But for peace of mind. the recommended is always one size too small.
On my 54 the choice for peace of mind is the 45KG/100LB Ultra is the best. But the weight is more important than shine. So the other choices of Rocna, Mantus, Plow will work fine.

Randall
A54 #56
Gibraltar

On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 7:49 AM Bryce Procter via groups.io <Balibryce=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
At the risk of opening a hornets nest I am replacing my 30kg Wasi Bugle anchor with one of the newer breed of anchors. My query is not about which brand or shackles or style though rather sizing.
Assuming the following that the boat is usually fully loaded for extended cruising so in the heavier weight range, occasionally left alone at anchor normally for no more than a day or two though in these times anything is possible;100m of chain, varying bottom types, don't intend to carry a dedicated "storm" anchor etc etc. Based on these and the endless other variables does anyone have any advice or thoughts on the best size/weight?
I have seen SM's being swapped out with anywhere from 30kg to 45kg Rocnas, Mantus or other newer style anchors. One piece of advice I read sometime ago was that if the other yachties at the dock aren't laughing at your anchor it's not big enough!
Cheers

Bryce
SM 2K #467


Randall
 


Slight rewording.

If you don't want to ever end up on youtube for the wrong reason, bigger is better. Your Wasi was chosen by Amel as a good size and would do fine. But for peace of mind. the recommended weight by the manufacturer is always one size too small. Go Bigger!!!!
On my 54 the choice for peace of mind is the 45KG/100LB Ultra is the best. But the weight is more important than shine. So the other choices of Rocna, Mantus, Plow, etc. will work fine.

Randall
A54 #56
Gibraltar


On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 9:20 AM The Boat <sailingalbedo@...> wrote:
If you don't want to ever end up on youtube for the wrong reason, bigger is better. Your Wasi was chosen by Amel as a good size and would do fine. But for peace of mind. the recommended is always one size too small.
On my 54 the choice for peace of mind is the 45KG/100LB Ultra is the best. But the weight is more important than shine. So the other choices of Rocna, Mantus, Plow will work fine.

Randall
A54 #56
Gibraltar

On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 7:49 AM Bryce Procter via groups.io <Balibryce=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
At the risk of opening a hornets nest I am replacing my 30kg Wasi Bugle anchor with one of the newer breed of anchors. My query is not about which brand or shackles or style though rather sizing.
Assuming the following that the boat is usually fully loaded for extended cruising so in the heavier weight range, occasionally left alone at anchor normally for no more than a day or two though in these times anything is possible;100m of chain, varying bottom types, don't intend to carry a dedicated "storm" anchor etc etc. Based on these and the endless other variables does anyone have any advice or thoughts on the best size/weight?
I have seen SM's being swapped out with anywhere from 30kg to 45kg Rocnas, Mantus or other newer style anchors. One piece of advice I read sometime ago was that if the other yachties at the dock aren't laughing at your anchor it's not big enough!
Cheers

Bryce
SM 2K #467


Bryce Procter
 

Thanks Randall, the 45 ULTRA was my original choice and after looking at it I'm sure it will get a few grins/smirks on the dock. Though along your line of thought I would rather have the peace of mind and not be wondering/hoping that the anchor holds when that unexpected 40 knot squall comes through while on shore or away. 



ngtnewington Newington
 

On my 54 Amel provided a 33kg Wasi, that I feel is slightly undersized for such a vessel. I also think the WASI, although a good anchor, is now out of date and has limited holding power. On board, when I purchased Amelia, was a 45Kg Delta that was set up as the primary anchor with the Wasi set up on the secondary port roller. 

I then switched them around and found the Wasi, although smaller than the Delta to be better all round than the Delta, although probably due only to it’s very sharp tip. I think the well set Delta would have greater holding power. The Delta however was harder to set. 

I was never happy with either as my main anchor; so after much research I purchased a 37Kg Spade that I am delighted with. Only the other day at anchor in Leros on very good holding, after two days of 25-30kn Meltemi. It was a beast to raise. Even on 1:1 scope It required 1500 RPM to even budge.

For a SM, which is pretty much the same size and weight as the 54 I completely agree 30Kg Wasi is really not big and modern enough for peace of mind.

I would go for either an Ultra or a Spade between 35Kg and 45Kg. My experience with the 37 Kg Spade is that if set in good holding ground it will not budge no matter how hard it blows. This would be over 20% heavier than the original Wasi supplied by Amel and for sure a much better anchor. 

Nick
Amelia (AML 54- 019) stored ashore in Leros.

On 13 Sep 2020, at 08:31, Randall <sailingalbedo@...> wrote:


Slight rewording.

If you don't want to ever end up on youtube for the wrong reason, bigger is better. Your Wasi was chosen by Amel as a good size and would do fine. But for peace of mind. the recommended weight by the manufacturer is always one size too small. Go Bigger!!!!
On my 54 the choice for peace of mind is the 45KG/100LB Ultra is the best. But the weight is more important than shine. So the other choices of Rocna, Mantus, Plow, etc. will work fine.

Randall
A54 #56
Gibraltar

On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 9:20 AM The Boat <sailingalbedo@...> wrote:
If you don't want to ever end up on youtube for the wrong reason, bigger is better. Your Wasi was chosen by Amel as a good size and would do fine. But for peace of mind. the recommended is always one size too small.
On my 54 the choice for peace of mind is the 45KG/100LB Ultra is the best. But the weight is more important than shine. So the other choices of Rocna, Mantus, Plow will work fine.

Randall
A54 #56
Gibraltar

On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 7:49 AM Bryce Procter via groups.io<Balibryce=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
At the risk of opening a hornets nest I am replacing my 30kg Wasi Bugle anchor with one of the newer breed of anchors. My query is not about which brand or shackles or style though rather sizing.
Assuming the following that the boat is usually fully loaded for extended cruising so in the heavier weight range, occasionally left alone at anchor normally for no more than a day or two though in these times anything is possible;100m of chain, varying bottom types, don't intend to carry a dedicated "storm" anchor etc etc. Based on these and the endless other variables does anyone have any advice or thoughts on the best size/weight?
I have seen SM's being swapped out with anywhere from 30kg to 45kg Rocnas, Mantus or other newer style anchors. One piece of advice I read sometime ago was that if the other yachties at the dock aren't laughing at your anchor it's not big enough!
Cheers

Bryce
SM 2K #467




Germain Jean-Pierre
 

We have a 35kg ultra with the ultra swivel.  As a RTW couple, we anchor 10 to 11 months a year.

To date, we have never dragged anchor... but we are very careful about setting our anchor.  The Ultra is a very good piece of equipment and we can recommend it unconditionally.

A Rocna would also do a good job.

Cheers

Jean-Pierre Germain, SY Eleuthera, SM007, New Zealand


On 13 Sep 2020, at 19:32, Randall <sailingalbedo@...> wrote:



Slight rewording.

If you don't want to ever end up on youtube for the wrong reason, bigger is better. Your Wasi was chosen by Amel as a good size and would do fine. But for peace of mind. the recommended weight by the manufacturer is always one size too small. Go Bigger!!!!
On my 54 the choice for peace of mind is the 45KG/100LB Ultra is the best. But the weight is more important than shine. So the other choices of Rocna, Mantus, Plow, etc. will work fine.

Randall
A54 #56
Gibraltar

On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 9:20 AM The Boat <sailingalbedo@...> wrote:
If you don't want to ever end up on youtube for the wrong reason, bigger is better. Your Wasi was chosen by Amel as a good size and would do fine. But for peace of mind. the recommended is always one size too small.
On my 54 the choice for peace of mind is the 45KG/100LB Ultra is the best. But the weight is more important than shine. So the other choices of Rocna, Mantus, Plow will work fine.

Randall
A54 #56
Gibraltar

On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 7:49 AM Bryce Procter via groups.io <Balibryce=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
At the risk of opening a hornets nest I am replacing my 30kg Wasi Bugle anchor with one of the newer breed of anchors. My query is not about which brand or shackles or style though rather sizing.
Assuming the following that the boat is usually fully loaded for extended cruising so in the heavier weight range, occasionally left alone at anchor normally for no more than a day or two though in these times anything is possible;100m of chain, varying bottom types, don't intend to carry a dedicated "storm" anchor etc etc. Based on these and the endless other variables does anyone have any advice or thoughts on the best size/weight?
I have seen SM's being swapped out with anywhere from 30kg to 45kg Rocnas, Mantus or other newer style anchors. One piece of advice I read sometime ago was that if the other yachties at the dock aren't laughing at your anchor it's not big enough!
Cheers

Bryce
SM 2K #467


Bryce Procter
 

Cheers Nick,

All pretty much along with my line of thinking. Its not a cheap exercise so good to have confirmation from others i'm on the the right track. 

Bryce

SM 2K #467


Bryce Procter
 

The Ultra appears more common and popular than I had imagined. My only complaint is a relative lack of choices in sizing, 35 to 45 KG is quite a jump. I guess in those times where dropping the anchor in unfavourable conditions and no time to ensure correct setting the additional weight will help ease any anxiety.

Bryce

SM 2K  #467


Matt Salatino
 

We have the Ultra 45. Best anchor yet after owning a Rocha and Delta before that. 
And we did have the 42 kn squall at anchor and didn’t budge. 

~~~⛵️~~~Matt A50/#27

On Sep 13, 2020, at 9:48 AM, Bryce Procter via groups.io <Balibryce@...> wrote:

Thanks Randall, the 45 ULTRA was my original choice and after looking at it I'm sure it will get a few grins/smirks on the dock. Though along your line of thought I would rather have the peace of mind and not be wondering/hoping that the anchor holds when that unexpected 40 knot squall comes through while on shore or away. 



ngtnewington Newington
 

The problem with the Ultra 45 Kg is that it costs over £3000
Whilst the Galvanised 44 kg Spade runs at £1500.
Having once lost an anchor (in the Galapagos) I believe that to be a factor...
I also believe that if you use 10mm chain you need top quality grade 70 chain rather than 40.
I think that you need to look at the whole arrangement as a system from anchor to chain to windlass to locker.
The Ultra sure is a beauty though...
Nick
Amelia (AML54-019)




On 13 Sep 2020, at 11:04, Matt Salatino via groups.io <helmsmatt@...> wrote:

We have the Ultra 45. Best anchor yet after owning a Rocha and Delta before that. 
And we did have the 42 kn squall at anchor and didn’t budge. 

~~~⛵️~~~Matt A50/#27

On Sep 13, 2020, at 9:48 AM, Bryce Procter via groups.io <Balibryce@...> wrote:

Thanks Randall, the 45 ULTRA was my original choice and after looking at it I'm sure it will get a few grins/smirks on the dock. Though along your line of thought I would rather have the peace of mind and not be wondering/hoping that the anchor holds when that unexpected 40 knot squall comes through while on shore or away. 



Arno Luijten
 

Bear in mind that most Amel 54s have two anchors on the bow. I never understood the choice of Amel to have a WASI and a Delta as default choices. These two really do not play along very well at the bow. The hoop and the straight shank of the WASI are a poor choice given the shape of the bow-gear.  I have replaced the WASI with a Spade 35kg and also fitted the big Mantus swivels. It fits perfectly now. We don't anchor that much but up to now we've had excellent experiences. You do need to enlarge the hole of the Spade a bit to mount the swivel but a decent round file will do the job.

Cheers,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Bryce Procter
 

Nice setup there, are you using two 100m lengths of S/S chain there? If so do you find the weight an issue?
Not to mention cost! I just enquired about 100m of Chromox 10mm, makes the anchor look cheap. 

Bryce

SM 2K # 647


Arno Luijten
 

The chain came with the boat. It is Amel supplied and regrettably only 316L (it is WASI-chain I have just learned) so not suitable for long term anchoring. The main anchor is all chain. The secondary has 15 m chain and whole lot of rode (never checked it in detail).
Cromox is really good and really expensive I agree. On the other hand if you practically live behind you anchor there is a strong case for biting the bullet. It will last much longer then galvanized and behave much nicer in the chain locker. 316L is downright dangerous for full time anchoring. By the time we are able to start doing that we may need to some sacrifices and buy Cromox. For now this works excellent for us.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Bryce Procter
 

I was looking at doing the same, running the s/s Cromox on the main anchor and a short length of chain to the existing Wasi as the secondary anchor.
Great advice from fellow Amelians as always, thanks guys.

Bryce

SM 2k #467


Rob Hughes
 

 Germain Jean-Pierre. Do you think the 45 will fit on a SM? Also did you need to change the bow roller when you put on your 35 Ultra


Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222
 

I have on my SM the Spade 200 in seewateraluminium 26 Kg

Works perfekt on the roll an in the water
Elja SM Balu
222


Von meinem iPhone gesendet


Teun BAAS
 

Last paragraph from Arno below is why, after my initial negative reaction, I decided to take the expensive CROMOX option into consideration.

 

Many of my recent (much, much more expensive and not really necessary – as in: new 3rd generation BAMAR furlers while the 2nd generation was working fine; new VOLVO PENTA while existing one could be “fixed”; complete new B&G navigation & radar system while the OEM FURUNO was working fine etc.) changes/”upgrades” were “safety” justified so then why hesitate with a USD7,300 anchor chain????

 

So now I am considering getting the CROMOX for the main anchor and switch the 100 meter galvanized I purchased last year to the secondary anchor; need to research if the additional weight in the bow will be negatively impacting the sailing.

 

Best Regards Teun

 

A54 2009 #128

September 13, 2020 13:02:20

 

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Arno Luijten via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2020 05:50
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Anchor sizing

 

The chain came with the boat. It is Amel supplied and regrettably only 316L (it is WASI-chain I have just learned) so not suitable for long term anchoring. The main anchor is all chain. The secondary has 15 m chain and whole lot of rode (never checked it in detail).
Cromox is really good and really expensive I agree. On the other hand if you practically live behind you anchor there is a strong case for biting the bullet. It will last much longer then galvanized and behave much nicer in the chain locker. 316L is downright dangerous for full time anchoring. By the time we are able to start doing that we may need to some sacrifices and buy Cromox. For now this works excellent for us.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Teun BAAS
 

Bryce,

 

What price did you get for the 100m CROMOX and where would it be delivered/purchased?

 

Best Regards Teun

A 54 2009 #128

September 13, 2020 13:08:18

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bryce Procter via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2020 05:29
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Anchor sizing

 

Nice setup there, are you using two 100m lengths of S/S chain there? If so do you find the weight an issue?
Not to mention cost! I just enquired about 100m of Chromox 10mm, makes the anchor look cheap. 

 

Bryce

 

SM 2K # 647


Arno Luijten
 

Hi Teun,

Actually the extra weight in the chain locker (if it physically fits) may not be so bad as most 54s are a bit tail-heavy and could do with some leveling.

Arno
SV Luna,
A54-121


Jose Venegas
 

Rob, I have an Ultra 35 and it bits well the SM2000 and, so far has worked very well in 35+ kn winds for two years.

I bought the Ultra at the Newport, Road Island boat show the week after I had a scary drag incident in Province Town (Cape Cod) using the SQR anchor that came with Ipanema and have worked well for 10 years.
I have sailed overnight from Boston and set the Danford well in at 3 AM before going to bed. Wind was light from the north but I made sure it was well set. However, in the morning the wind shifted to the east with a strong 30 kt breeze and next time I checked, I was rapidly moving towards the beach. I turned the engine on and brought the anchor up noticing that it was fouled with a fishing net. Unfortunately, the prop ended up being fouled by the line attached to the fishing net, but fortunately I had already removed the net from the anchor and I sent it back on time.
Thinking about the incident I realized that, although the anchor had set well the night before, the 90+degrees wind shift had pulled the anchor free allowing it to catch the net before it had a chance to set again.

Back to Newport boat show, Ultra had demonstration sand and gravel pits to show the effectiveness of several models of different types of anchors. As a scientists I used to be, I asked if I could do a test to evaluate what happened with the CQR and the Ultra well set when the wind shifted 90 degrees. The result was clear and reproducible. The Ultra remained set and just rotated digging itself more, while the Danford came out and took a while before it set up again.
As I kept repeating the experiment (Scientist don’t believe a single finding), more and more people joined the spectators to the point that they ended up selling several anchors that afternoon and were willing to give me a discount above that of the boat show when I bought my anchor.

From this experiment it was clear that one of the great advantages of the Ultra anchor is its ability to remain well set when the wind shifts. I believe this is due to the winglets it has which guides the digging. The other reason may be that the tip of the anchor is weighted (filled with lead) which helps it to dig into the bottom. Finally, compared with the Rocna type anchors, the Ultra has much greater area opposing it dragging motion which should give it an advantage on soft mud bottoms.

Jose Venegas
Ipanema SM2K 278
In Curaçao


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