Any SM owners use a Beta engine??


Davi Rozgonyi
 

Ciao y'all.... Davi here on SM#56, Wake. So I've been trying to have my Perkins Prima M80T rebuilt for some months now with disappointing results. Constant gray/white smoke and spitting oil or diesel on the water, eating a liter of oil every 50 hours or so. Even after twice having engine removed, pistons checked, head checked, FI pump rebuilt, injectors tested, new turbo installed.... stumped. Two different mechanics. The first I can now say botched the job, but the second is pretty brilliant and he is at the point where he wants to pull the whole thing to recheck the other work done starting at the pistons again. 

But I am getting fed up. I cannot afford any more high-season-in-the-Med marina layup for weeks. I will be able to limp through the summer here in Italy/Greece with it as is before wintering back here in Palermo, where there is a Beta dealer. I've looked at these engines before, and know they are strong, simple, naturally aspirated, cheaper parts, etc. Price is pretty good too.

So I'm asking if any of you have Betas or can tell me some things about them I might be missing vis a vis a SM repower. They make a 75 horse model, looks pretty sweet, I've only heard good things about them. Any real life insight from ye salty souls??? 


ngtnewington Newington
 

I had a Beta 50 hp on my last boat. Ran sweet, started first time over 10 years.
Nick
Amelia 
AML54 -019 in Mahon 


On 26 May 2019, at 07:35, Davi Rozgonyi <davi.rozgonyi@...> wrote:

Ciao y'all.... Davi here on SM#56, Wake. So I've been trying to have my Perkins Prima M80T rebuilt for some months now with disappointing results. Constant gray/white smoke and spitting oil or diesel on the water, eating a liter of oil every 50 hours or so. Even after twice having engine removed, pistons checked, head checked, FI pump rebuilt, injectors tested, new turbo installed.... stumped. Two different mechanics. The first I can now say botched the job, but the second is pretty brilliant and he is at the point where he wants to pull the whole thing to recheck the other work done starting at the pistons again. 

But I am getting fed up. I cannot afford any more high-season-in-the-Med marina layup for weeks. I will be able to limp through the summer here in Italy/Greece with it as is before wintering back here in Palermo, where there is a Beta dealer. I've looked at these engines before, and know they are strong, simple, naturally aspirated, cheaper parts, etc. Price is pretty good too.

So I'm asking if any of you have Betas or can tell me some things about them I might be missing vis a vis a SM repower. They make a 75 horse model, looks pretty sweet, I've only heard good things about them. Any real life insight from ye salty souls??? 


Gerhard Mueller
 

I am not shure if you also need to change the gearbox when changing the engine. Perhaps someone here has a hint.

--
Gerhard Mueller
Amel Sharki #60
Currently Kalamata, Greece


Dan Wilcox
 

Hi Davi,  I just purchased a Beta 85 which should be delivered next week.  I'm installing the CS version of the control panel today, and it looks like it will fit perfectly.  I'm happy to share pictures if you would like, or let you know how the install goes over the next 3 weeks.  So far I have been very happy working with Stan, the US dealer.

Thanks, Dan
Feierabend SM #86

On Sunday, May 26, 2019, 3:28:40 AM PDT, Gerhard Mueller via Groups.Io <carcode@...> wrote:


I am not shure if you also need to change the gearbox when changing the engine. Perhaps someone here has a hint.

--
Gerhard Mueller
Amel Sharki #60
Currently Kalamata, Greece


James Alton
 

Davi,

  Really sorry to hear about your engine woes and the disruption to your Med. cruising.  Has your mechanic verified that the compression is up to spec. on all cylinders after the rebuild?   I have a customer who installed a Beta 50 8 years ago and loves the engine, no issues.  The Beta is based on the Kubota block.  We had a Kubota tractor that was high time which gave excellent service, never opened the engine. 

Best of luck,
James

SV Sueno,  Maramu #220

On May 26, 2019, at 2:35 AM, Davi Rozgonyi <davi.rozgonyi@...> wrote:

Ciao y'all.... Davi here on SM#56, Wake. So I've been trying to have my Perkins Prima M80T rebuilt for some months now with disappointing results. Constant gray/white smoke and spitting oil or diesel on the water, eating a liter of oil every 50 hours or so. Even after twice having engine removed, pistons checked, head checked, FI pump rebuilt, injectors tested, new turbo installed.... stumped. Two different mechanics. The first I can now say botched the job, but the second is pretty brilliant and he is at the point where he wants to pull the whole thing to recheck the other work done starting at the pistons again. 

But I am getting fed up. I cannot afford any more high-season-in-the-Med marina layup for weeks. I will be able to limp through the summer here in Italy/Greece with it as is before wintering back here in Palermo, where there is a Beta dealer. I've looked at these engines before, and know they are strong, simple, naturally aspirated, cheaper parts, etc. Price is pretty good too.

So I'm asking if any of you have Betas or can tell me some things about them I might be missing vis a vis a SM repower. They make a 75 horse model, looks pretty sweet, I've only heard good things about them. Any real life insight from ye salty souls??? 


Bill Fletcher
 

I bought a Beta marine 60 six years ago and it has been the best purchase I have made for the boat. It has been totally reliable and easy to work on. Two options I had were I had the remote oil filter installed. The oil filer would be very difficult to change and messy without it. I sent my existing high amperage alternator to  the factory to be installed They modified my alternator to a serpentine  belt and did a great job. This saved hours of work for the installers and it wasn’t very expensive.  Of course you would do the 75 horsepower as you are a SM  I am only a MARAMU but am very happy with it. I have traced from the states to New Zealand and so far every time I turn the key it just goes. 
Bill Fletcher 
MARAMU 179

On Sun, May 26, 2019 at 5:35 PM Davi Rozgonyi <davi.rozgonyi@...> wrote:
Ciao y'all.... Davi here on SM#56, Wake. So I've been trying to have my Perkins Prima M80T rebuilt for some months now with disappointing results. Constant gray/white smoke and spitting oil or diesel on the water, eating a liter of oil every 50 hours or so. Even after twice having engine removed, pistons checked, head checked, FI pump rebuilt, injectors tested, new turbo installed.... stumped. Two different mechanics. The first I can now say botched the job, but the second is pretty brilliant and he is at the point where he wants to pull the whole thing to recheck the other work done starting at the pistons again. 

But I am getting fed up. I cannot afford any more high-season-in-the-Med marina layup for weeks. I will be able to limp through the summer here in Italy/Greece with it as is before wintering back here in Palermo, where there is a Beta dealer. I've looked at these engines before, and know they are strong, simple, naturally aspirated, cheaper parts, etc. Price is pretty good too.

So I'm asking if any of you have Betas or can tell me some things about them I might be missing vis a vis a SM repower. They make a 75 horse model, looks pretty sweet, I've only heard good things about them. Any real life insight from ye salty souls??? 


svsunnyside
 

Hi Bill Fletcher,
On my MARAMU #219 the Perkins 4154 has little more than 11,000 hours.
Also if is still running very well, I must be prepared to buy a new engine, perhaps, in a short time. Quite sure I will buy a BETA 60 , so I am very interested to receive from you all the possible details from purchase.........up to installation. I am sure that there are more guys in the same situation and each one of us will be very glad to share such an experience.
Many thank in advance.
Gabriele Antolini
S/V Sunny Side
Maramu #219
Todomar yard
Cartagena de India

On Sunday, 26 May 2019, 16:57:33 GMT-4, Bill Fletcher <bll.fletcher@...> wrote:


I bought a Beta marine 60 six years ago and it has been the best purchase I have made for the boat. It has been totally reliable and easy to work on. Two options I had were I had the remote oil filter installed. The oil filer would be very difficult to change and messy without it. I sent my existing high amperage alternator to  the factory to be installed They modified my alternator to a serpentine  belt and did a great job. This saved hours of work for the installers and it wasn’t very expensive.  Of course you would do the 75 horsepower as you are a SM  I am only a MARAMU but am very happy with it. I have traced from the states to New Zealand and so far every time I turn the key it just goes. 
Bill Fletcher 
MARAMU 179

On Sun, May 26, 2019 at 5:35 PM Davi Rozgonyi <davi.rozgonyi@...> wrote:
Ciao y'all.... Davi here on SM#56, Wake. So I've been trying to have my Perkins Prima M80T rebuilt for some months now with disappointing results. Constant gray/white smoke and spitting oil or diesel on the water, eating a liter of oil every 50 hours or so. Even after twice having engine removed, pistons checked, head checked, FI pump rebuilt, injectors tested, new turbo installed.... stumped. Two different mechanics. The first I can now say botched the job, but the second is pretty brilliant and he is at the point where he wants to pull the whole thing to recheck the other work done starting at the pistons again. 

But I am getting fed up. I cannot afford any more high-season-in-the-Med marina layup for weeks. I will be able to limp through the summer here in Italy/Greece with it as is before wintering back here in Palermo, where there is a Beta dealer. I've looked at these engines before, and know they are strong, simple, naturally aspirated, cheaper parts, etc. Price is pretty good too.

So I'm asking if any of you have Betas or can tell me some things about them I might be missing vis a vis a SM repower. They make a 75 horse model, looks pretty sweet, I've only heard good things about them. Any real life insight from ye salty souls??? 


RICHARD MIDDLETON <middleton@...>
 

Ok I’m not an Amel owner, maybe one day! But i had a Beta 60 fitted to my HR Rasmus 10 years ago. I’m very happy with it and would do the same again. The point I’d like to emphasise is that I had great support from Beta by talking to them at the factory. They answered my worries and made suggestions. Ring them or email them.
regards Richard


Mark Barter
 

Hi Dan,

We are in a boatyard in Gibraltar to have our M80T replaced by the Beta 85T.

To cut a long story short, the Perkins is out and just as the fitter was about to have the Beta craned in he discovered that the Beta was too big. As I type he is trying to work out how the new engine and the engine bed can be modified to fit.

The Beta is stock from the manufacturer except that it came fitted with a large 175a Leece Neville alternator. Also, it has the wrong type of gearbox. It needs a dropbox apparently.

Do you have the photos you took when you replaced your Perkins? 

Any help would be very gratefully received.

Many thanks
Mark
--
Mark & Nicky Barter
S/V Nunky
SM 110


michael winand
 

We installed a beta 60. Did not have any problems with the physical size. 
The gearbox is a tmc.
Beta power ratings are on the output flange of the gearbox. Compared with the Volvo at the flywheel. The beta has more torque than the Volvo. 









On Wed, 2 Dec 2020 at 10:34 pm, Mark Barter
<markbarter100@...> wrote:
Hi Dan,

We are in a boatyard in Gibraltar to have our M80T replaced by the Beta 85T.

To cut a long story short, the Perkins is out and just as the fitter was about to have the Beta craned in he discovered that the Beta was too big. As I type he is trying to work out how the new engine and the engine bed can be modified to fit.

The Beta is stock from the manufacturer except that it came fitted with a large 175a Leece Neville alternator. Also, it has the wrong type of gearbox. It needs a dropbox apparently.

Do you have the photos you took when you replaced your Perkins? 

Any help would be very gratefully received.

Many thanks
Mark
--
Mark & Nicky Barter
S/V Nunky
SM 110


michael winand
 

Michael Nebo sm251  Australia 


On Thu, 3 Dec 2020 at 7:17 am, michael winand
<mfw642000@...> wrote:
We installed a beta 60. Did not have any problems with the physical size. 
The gearbox is a tmc.
Beta power ratings are on the output flange of the gearbox. Compared with the Volvo at the flywheel. The beta has more torque than the Volvo. 









On Wed, 2 Dec 2020 at 10:34 pm, Mark Barter
<markbarter100@...> wrote:
Hi Dan,

We are in a boatyard in Gibraltar to have our M80T replaced by the Beta 85T.

To cut a long story short, the Perkins is out and just as the fitter was about to have the Beta craned in he discovered that the Beta was too big. As I type he is trying to work out how the new engine and the engine bed can be modified to fit.

The Beta is stock from the manufacturer except that it came fitted with a large 175a Leece Neville alternator. Also, it has the wrong type of gearbox. It needs a dropbox apparently.

Do you have the photos you took when you replaced your Perkins? 

Any help would be very gratefully received.

Many thanks
Mark
--
Mark & Nicky Barter
S/V Nunky
SM 110


Dan Wilcox
 

Here's a picture of our Beta 85.  I extended the rail and reverse mounted the alternator (fuel filters were moved). 

Thanks, Dan
Feierabend #86

On Wednesday, December 2, 2020, 01:45:54 PM PST, michael winand via groups.io <mfw642000@...> wrote:


Michael Nebo sm251  Australia 


On Thu, 3 Dec 2020 at 7:17 am, michael winand
<mfw642000@...> wrote:
We installed a beta 60. Did not have any problems with the physical size. 
The gearbox is a tmc.
Beta power ratings are on the output flange of the gearbox. Compared with the Volvo at the flywheel. The beta has more torque than the Volvo. 









On Wed, 2 Dec 2020 at 10:34 pm, Mark Barter
<markbarter100@...> wrote:
Hi Dan,

We are in a boatyard in Gibraltar to have our M80T replaced by the Beta 85T.

To cut a long story short, the Perkins is out and just as the fitter was about to have the Beta craned in he discovered that the Beta was too big. As I type he is trying to work out how the new engine and the engine bed can be modified to fit.

The Beta is stock from the manufacturer except that it came fitted with a large 175a Leece Neville alternator. Also, it has the wrong type of gearbox. It needs a dropbox apparently.

Do you have the photos you took when you replaced your Perkins? 

Any help would be very gratefully received.

Many thanks
Mark
--
Mark & Nicky Barter
S/V Nunky
SM 110


Matt Salatino
 

Nice! Where is the raw water pump? How difficult is it to change the impeller?

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Dec 2, 2020, at 4:17 PM, michael winand via groups.io <mfw642000@...> wrote:

We installed a beta 60. Did not have any problems with the physical size. 
The gearbox is a tmc.
Beta power ratings are on the output flange of the gearbox. Compared with the Volvo at the flywheel. The beta has more torque than the Volvo. 
<20190415_090043.jpg>
<20190415_090157.jpg>
<20190420_083603.jpg>






On Wed, 2 Dec 2020 at 10:34 pm, Mark Barter
Hi Dan,

We are in a boatyard in Gibraltar to have our M80T replaced by the Beta 85T.

To cut a long story short, the Perkins is out and just as the fitter was about to have the Beta craned in he discovered that the Beta was too big. As I type he is trying to work out how the new engine and the engine bed can be modified to fit.

The Beta is stock from the manufacturer except that it came fitted with a large 175a Leece Neville alternator. Also, it has the wrong type of gearbox. It needs a dropbox apparently.

Do you have the photos you took when you replaced your Perkins? 

Any help would be very gratefully received.

Many thanks
Mark
--
Mark & Nicky Barter
S/V Nunky
SM 110
<20190415_090043.jpg>
<20190415_090157.jpg>
<20190420_083603.jpg>


Dan Wilcox
 

Sure.  I actually installed it myself over the course of 2 weekends.  My rails were quite rusted so I made new ones.  I'm heading down to the boat now if you want me to take any specific pictures.

Thanks, Dan
Feierabend SM #86


On Wednesday, December 2, 2020, 02:59:23 PM PST, Matt Salatino via groups.io <helmsmatt@...> wrote:


Nice! Where is the raw water pump? How difficult is it to change the impeller?

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Dec 2, 2020, at 4:17 PM, michael winand via groups.io <mfw642000@...> wrote:

We installed a beta 60. Did not have any problems with the physical size. 
The gearbox is a tmc.
Beta power ratings are on the output flange of the gearbox. Compared with the Volvo at the flywheel. The beta has more torque than the Volvo. 
<20190415_090043.jpg>
<20190415_090157.jpg>
<20190420_083603.jpg>






On Wed, 2 Dec 2020 at 10:34 pm, Mark Barter
Hi Dan,

We are in a boatyard in Gibraltar to have our M80T replaced by the Beta 85T.

To cut a long story short, the Perkins is out and just as the fitter was about to have the Beta craned in he discovered that the Beta was too big. As I type he is trying to work out how the new engine and the engine bed can be modified to fit.

The Beta is stock from the manufacturer except that it came fitted with a large 175a Leece Neville alternator. Also, it has the wrong type of gearbox. It needs a dropbox apparently.

Do you have the photos you took when you replaced your Perkins? 

Any help would be very gratefully received.

Many thanks
Mark
--
Mark & Nicky Barter
S/V Nunky
SM 110
<20190415_090043.jpg>
<20190415_090157.jpg>
<20190420_083603.jpg>


Mark Barter
 

Thanks for all of the help with this. 

The fitter is modifying the rails and the mounts and also moving the alternator to the opposite side.

The problem with the gearbox is that they ordered a straight gearbox and not what they have described as a "drop box". The drop box means that the exit part of the gearbox is lower than the input side if that makes sense. The engine simply won't fit with a straight gearbox.

Can anyone tell me what model of gearbox has been successfully fitted because we need to find one ASAP.

We are currently tied to an exposed wall of a boatyard and a storm is expected tomorrow. We are being towed to a marina today which I am not looking forward to at all.  

Thanks again for the invaluable help.

--
Mark & Nicky Barter
S/V Nunky
SM 110


michael winand
 

We have the tmc260  on the the Beta 60. 
Michael  sm251 


On Thu, 3 Dec 2020 at 4:08 pm, Mark Barter
<markbarter100@...> wrote:
Thanks for all of the help with this. 

The fitter is modifying the rails and the mounts and also moving the alternator to the opposite side.

The problem with the gearbox is that they ordered a straight gearbox and not what they have described as a "drop box". The drop box means that the exit part of the gearbox is lower than the input side if that makes sense. The engine simply won't fit with a straight gearbox.

Can anyone tell me what model of gearbox has been successfully fitted because we need to find one ASAP.

We are currently tied to an exposed wall of a boatyard and a storm is expected tomorrow. We are being towed to a marina today which I am not looking forward to at all.  

Thanks again for the invaluable help.

--
Mark & Nicky Barter
S/V Nunky
SM 110


Dan Wilcox
 

Here is what I got. 
HR = high rise, gear ratio was determined by prop used (I have a max prop )

Inline image

I worked with Stan @ Beta Marine US Ltd.
tel 252.249.2473 or 877.227.2473

I went overboard with 4" rails.  

 Thanks, Dan
Feierabend SM#86

Inline image
Inline image
Inline image
Inline image








On Thursday, December 3, 2020, 01:30:59 PM PST, michael winand via groups.io <mfw642000@...> wrote:


We have the tmc260  on the the Beta 60. 
Michael  sm251 


On Thu, 3 Dec 2020 at 4:08 pm, Mark Barter
<markbarter100@...> wrote:
Thanks for all of the help with this. 

The fitter is modifying the rails and the mounts and also moving the alternator to the opposite side.

The problem with the gearbox is that they ordered a straight gearbox and not what they have described as a "drop box". The drop box means that the exit part of the gearbox is lower than the input side if that makes sense. The engine simply won't fit with a straight gearbox.

Can anyone tell me what model of gearbox has been successfully fitted because we need to find one ASAP.

We are currently tied to an exposed wall of a boatyard and a storm is expected tomorrow. We are being towed to a marina today which I am not looking forward to at all.  

Thanks again for the invaluable help.

--
Mark & Nicky Barter
S/V Nunky
SM 110


Mark Barter
 

Thanks Dan, I have sent those photographs to the fitter. He really seems now to have got on top of this job so I am more confident  that it will go well.

I can see that you have moved the fuel filter but I can't see where you have put it. 

I was thinking of putting the dual filters that I have bought a bit higher and the other side of the valve shut off extension.  
--
Mark & Nicky Barter
S/V Nunky
SM 110


Dan Wilcox
 

Happy to hear that the pictures helped.  Don't hesitate if you need any specific additional ones.  

I located the fuel filters on the back wall.  I wanted easy access to it, and it's mid-point between engine and generator.

Good luck with the install. I know you will enjoy the new engine.

Thanks, Dan 
Feierabend SM#86

On Thursday, December 3, 2020, 11:32:04 PM PST, Mark Barter <markbarter100@...> wrote:


Thanks Dan, I have sent those photographs to the fitter. He really seems now to have got on top of this job so I am more confident  that it will go well.

I can see that you have moved the fuel filter but I can't see where you have put it. 

I was thinking of putting the dual filters that I have bought a bit higher and the other side of the valve shut off extension.  
--
Mark & Nicky Barter
S/V Nunky
SM 110


amelforme
 

The fuel filters are mounted in a position that is a little uncomfortable to access for a good reason. When positioned as God and Henri Amel wished, the filters will almost always be below the fuel level in the tank with any reasonable amount of fuel being contained. This makes it very easy to purge/bleed the fuel feed line and the fuel filter containments and filters with just the head pressure from the fuel tank.

 

If you position them higher, you run the risk of not having a positive pressure of fuel to the fuel feed line and filters unless the fuel tank is very full. In such a case you would need to source fuel from a portable tank and pour it into the open filter tops and perhaps get a bubble/embolism in the fuel feed line which would make purging/bleeding the system more difficult. The other solution would be to mount an electric fuel pump to occasionally use to supply pressurized fuel. The life span on such an electrical pump which is seldom used would not be long. If it failed at the moment you really need to purge/prime the fuel system, that could be way more inconvenient than having to contort yourself to service them in the original position.

 

I too questioned the logic of this the first time I saw the set-up at the shipyard in La Rochelle. I questioned Jacques Carteau, the fellow who designed this system, why he had done so. He gave me a withering look and mutter something under his breath as only the French can do, then he patiently gave me the explanation I have just shared with you.  

 

Yes, I am an unabashed enthusiast for everything Amel and I have made a good living selling Amel boats for 40 years. But this enthusiasm is deserved. When something seems odd or contrary on an Amel, there is almost always a very good reason for the peculiar aspect of the component.

Consider the entire situation before you change anything from the provided configuration.

 

Have fun with your Amel!

 

All the best,

Joel

 

           JOEL F. POTTER ~ CRUISING YACHT SPECIALIST, L.L.C.

                                         The Experienced AMEL Guy

UNSURPASSED AMEL MARKETING EXPERIENCE AND PRODUCT KNOWLEDGE

                                  Office 954-462-5869  Cell 954-812-2485

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dan Wilcox via groups.io
Sent: Friday, December 4, 2020 12:38 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Any SM owners use a Beta engine??

 

Happy to hear that the pictures helped.  Don't hesitate if you need any specific additional ones.  

 

I located the fuel filters on the back wall.  I wanted easy access to it, and it's mid-point between engine and generator.

 

Good luck with the install. I know you will enjoy the new engine.

 

Thanks, Dan 

Feierabend SM#86

 

On Thursday, December 3, 2020, 11:32:04 PM PST, Mark Barter <markbarter100@...> wrote:

 

 

Thanks Dan, I have sent those photographs to the fitter. He really seems now to have got on top of this job so I am more confident  that it will go well.

I can see that you have moved the fuel filter but I can't see where you have put it. 

I was thinking of putting the dual filters that I have bought a bit higher and the other side of the valve shut off extension.  
--
Mark & Nicky Barter
S/V Nunky
SM 110