Topics

"Apple is examining a chemistry for the car battery called LFP, or lithium iron phosphate, for its car", that will bring the cost down for all of us


JB Duler
 


Scott SV Tengah
 

Both Apple and Tesla are touting a next generation battery tech called LFP - not sure how they can claim this without the FTC intervening for false advertising. Lithium Iron Phosphate has been commercially available for almost 20 years and is what I and every other boat that has lithium is using.

One potential change is that I believe, but am not sure, that current LFP batteries (like my Victron) use 18650 cells packaged together in the box. They look like big AA batteries, so the cylinders have some dead space in between. I guess if you can design a more space efficient component, you can pack more energy into the same battery box. Maybe important on a car, but my battery compartment isn't even half full, so space is not an issue. 

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Ken Powers SV Aquarius
 

I don't know how the cost could come down too much more...  I got 600AH at 24V for $3600.   The only thing I regret is not getting one more battery so I would have 900AH at 24V.

The price has come down so much that in Thailand it is more expensive to get AGM batteries than LiFePO4.

Ken
Aquarius
SM262


Jeff Williams
 

Ken,
What brand did you get?
Jeff
S/V Spruzzo SM #379

On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 1:12 AM Ken Powers SV Aquarius <ken@...> wrote:
I don't know how the cost could come down too much more...  I got 600AH at 24V for $3600.   The only thing I regret is not getting one more battery so I would have 900AH at 24V.

The price has come down so much that in Thailand it is more expensive to get AGM batteries than LiFePO4.

Ken
Aquarius
SM262


JOHN HAYES
 

And there is research going on at Victoria university in Wellington to build an aluminium lithium battery which should in time bring costs down to ........according to the lead researcher


On 31/12/2020, at 7:39 PM, Jeff Williams <jeff99williams@...> wrote:


Ken,
What brand did you get?
Jeff
S/V Spruzzo SM #379

On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 1:12 AM Ken Powers SV Aquarius <ken@...> wrote:
I don't know how the cost could come down too much more...  I got 600AH at 24V for $3600.   The only thing I regret is not getting one more battery so I would have 900AH at 24V.

The price has come down so much that in Thailand it is more expensive to get AGM batteries than LiFePO4.

Ken
Aquarius
SM262


Mark McGovern
 
Edited

This will not likely have a trickle down effect for marine batteries anytime soon.  The key differentiator for Apple is the "monocell" cell design, not the LFP chemistry.  It's their way of trying to make up for the lower energy density of the LFP chemistry compared to other Lithium Ion chemistries like the NCA chemistry (lithium-nickel-cobalt-aluminum) that Tesla mainly uses.  Tesla batteries are made from older, proven cylindrical cell design as well as a different NCA chemistry.  Scott, your Victron batteries actually use prismatic LFP cells, not cylindrical cells:  https://shop.pkys.com/Ever-wondered-what-is-inside-a-Victron-Lithium-Battery_b_167.html 

Most other drop-in batteries like Battleborn do use cylindrical LFP cells to make their batteries.

--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


Nicolas Klene
 

Hi Ken 
You might have answered that question before but I was wondering if we could find the make of your batteries in Europe ? They seem to be 300a/h in 24v a piece ??
I was planning to upgrade to only 600A/h LifePo4 which would be more then my 660 A/h with 12 AGM 110/12v but you seem to think 900a/h is better ...! 
--
Nicolas Klene
DarNico
SM2K # 471
In Marseille